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Political Banter Thread for the West

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#1
iFred

Posted 14 March 2016 - 03:52 AM

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A few things that a are different than the last thread. No personal attacks, jibes, or poor attempts to troll. No demeaning anyone for their views, even if they support a candidate or position that you can't

 

The thread will be closed if and when things are no longer civil.


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#2
Jesse

Posted 14 March 2016 - 06:14 PM

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I don't agree with all of this, but definitely a good read. Lots of compelling reasons for Convervatives to support Sanders over Trump/Clinton.

https://medium.com/@...2a2a#.xbes86bpc
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#3
bainbridgekid

Posted 15 March 2016 - 09:15 AM

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Big day for the Republican primaries.

 

Florida and Ohio are both winner-take-all states.

 

Kasich should really take Ohio, but if Trump wins both of them, it's pretty much over.


2016-17 snowfall: 12"

 

12/8-9: 3.5"

12/23: 0.25"

12/31: 0.25"

2/3: 0.5"

2/5-6: 4"

2/26: 0.25"

2/27: 1.5"+0.5"+0.25"

2/28: 0.25"

3/7/17: 0.5"

3/8/17: 0.25"

 

 


#4
Jesse

Posted 15 March 2016 - 09:15 AM

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Big day for the Republican primaries.

Florida and Ohio are both winner-take-all states.

If Trump wins both of them, it's pretty much over.


Could be a big day for Sanders too, if things work out right.

#5
iFred

Posted 15 March 2016 - 04:13 PM

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So where does Bernie go on from here?



#6
Deweydog

Posted 15 March 2016 - 04:25 PM

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Buy buy Marco!!!

All roads lead to Walgreens.  


#7
BLI snowman

Posted 15 March 2016 - 11:20 PM

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So where does Bernie go on from here?

 

Retires back to Vermont. Socializes the Burlington nursing home industry before his big move into it in 2019. 


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#8
Jesse

Posted 16 March 2016 - 07:15 AM

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Retires back to Vermont. Socializes the Burlington nursing home industry before his big move into it in 2019.


Oooh, oooh, now do Petersen!

#9
BLI snowman

Posted 16 March 2016 - 08:24 AM

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Oooh, oooh, now do Petersen!

 

Fades so far into obscurity that he forms and later gets swallowed by a black hole. 

 

Reality bites!



#10
Deweydog

Posted 16 March 2016 - 09:54 AM

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Yikes... Even my sister, who has been a retweet queen Bernie supporter, seems to be jumping ship. 


All roads lead to Walgreens.  


#11
Jesse

Posted 16 March 2016 - 10:29 AM

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Yikes... Even my sister, who has been a retweet queen Bernie supporter, seems to be jumping ship.


I realize you are probably in the verge of peeing yourself with glee, but it is pretty disheartening. Looking like a Trump vs Clinton general. Now you can actually say there are no good choices without being guilty of spewing an overused cliche.



#12
Deweydog

Posted 16 March 2016 - 10:57 AM

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I realize you are probably in the verge of peeing yourself with glee, but it is pretty disheartening. Looking like a Trump vs Clinton general. Now you can actually say there are no good choices without being guilt of spewing an overused cliche.


Nothing has changed all that much for us pragmatists.

All roads lead to Walgreens.  


#13
Jesse

Posted 16 March 2016 - 01:05 PM

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Nothing has changed all that much for us pragmatists.


Life is still as empty and meaningless as ever?

#14
Deweydog

Posted 16 March 2016 - 02:02 PM

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Life is still as empty and meaningless as ever?


Politically? Yeah, pretty much.

Honestly I feel pretty good about the fact I don't NEED someone to be my voice to the point their winning or losing matters to such a degree. Lots of wasted energy.
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All roads lead to Walgreens.  


#15
Jesse

Posted 17 March 2016 - 02:16 PM

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Nope, still no media bias here. All in everyone's head. :)

http://mobile.nytime.../m.facebook.com

#16
Jesse

Posted 17 March 2016 - 02:21 PM

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Politically? Yeah, pretty much.

Honestly I feel pretty good about the fact I don't NEED someone to be my voice to the point their winning or losing matters to such a degree. Lots of wasted energy.

I don't think anyone doubts for a minute that you are a pretty big fan of you.

Clearly you are going to think that caring about the future of this country is dumb, or a waste of effort at best, in almost any context. I get that. Taking that stance feeds into your self image. Do you ever think that perhaps worrying that other people are "wasting their energy" feeling differently is a waste of energy in and of itself, though? Clearly there are many who don't share your opinion and feel some responsibility for the good of others beyond the vast expanse of their own ego. For sometime who insists with all of their might that they are such a pragmatist, I would think you would see the irony in what you do on these threads.

#17
Deweydog

Posted 17 March 2016 - 05:27 PM

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I don't think anyone doubts for a minute that you are a pretty big fan of you.

Clearly you are going to think that caring about the future of this country is dumb, or a waste of effort at best, in almost any context. I get that. Taking that stance feeds into your self image. Do you ever think that perhaps worrying that other people are "wasting their energy" feeling differently is a waste of energy in and of itself, though? Clearly there are many who don't share your opinion and feel some responsibility for the good of others beyond the vast expanse of their own ego. For sometime who insists with all of their might that they are such a pragmatist, I would think you would see the irony in what you do on these threads.


I'm sure you'll get some latitude given the circumstances but I'm sure this inciting crap isn't quite what uncle Fred had in mind.

You gotta relax. My take on things doesn't make me a bad person, yours doesn't make you a bad person. You have no clue of the things I do to better those around me.


All roads lead to Walgreens.  


#18
Deweydog

Posted 18 March 2016 - 10:19 AM

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Bad Jesse...

Bernie's coming to Vancouver and you're gonna miss it? Apparently political revolutions don't trump vacation plans.

All roads lead to Walgreens.  


#19
Jesse

Posted 18 March 2016 - 10:28 AM

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Bad Jesse...

Bernie's coming to Vancouver and you're gonna miss it? Apparently political revolutions don't trump vacation plans.


I'm actually pretty disappointed. Bad timing. :lol:

I didn't even realize until last night. It's literally across the street from where I go to school too.

#20
Deweydog

Posted 18 March 2016 - 10:57 AM

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I'm actually pretty disappointed. Bad timing. :lol:

I didn't even realize until last night. It's literally across the street from where I go to school too.


I didn't know until this morning when I got a call from my sister about staying with us Sunday night. Socialists are sooooo high maintenance...
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All roads lead to Walgreens.  


#21
FroYoBro

Posted 18 March 2016 - 07:49 PM

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I'm going on Sunday. I'll be the the one wearing a Che shirt and and a marijuana bandanna. 


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#22
Jesse

Posted 18 March 2016 - 08:25 PM

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I'm going on Sunday. I'll be the the one wearing a Che shirt and and a marijuana bandanna.


For some reason I believe you. :lol:

#23
SilverFallsAndrew

Posted 18 March 2016 - 09:27 PM

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I'm actually pretty disappointed. Bad timing. :lol:

I didn't even realize until last night. It's literally across the street from where I go to school too.

 

I promise his rally won't be interrupted by Trump supporters. But Bernie's loser crowd can't stay away from Trump rallies. I hope they and BLM keep the protests going. It will only help Trump. 


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Snowfall

2016-17: 47.2"

2015-16: 11.75"

2014-15: 3.5"
2013-14: 11.75"
2012-13: 16.75"
2011-12: 98.5"

 

 

 


#24
Jesse

Posted 19 March 2016 - 07:13 AM

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I promise his rally won't be interrupted by Trump supporters. But Bernie's loser crowd can't stay away from Trump rallies. I hope they and BLM keep the protests going. It will only help Trump.


People need to let the poor neo-Nazis convene in peace! :(

#25
Front Ranger

Posted 19 March 2016 - 03:11 PM

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People need to let the poor neo-Nazis convene in peace! :(

 

The sad thing is he's attracting a lot of good people, too. I don't get it.


Cool anomalies soothe the soul.


#26
SilverFallsAndrew

Posted 19 March 2016 - 03:56 PM

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People need to let the poor neo-Nazis convene in peace! :(

 

The only racists groups are the ones protesting. BLM, La Raza, and the like. Domestic terrorists threatening our free speech. 


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Snowfall

2016-17: 47.2"

2015-16: 11.75"

2014-15: 3.5"
2013-14: 11.75"
2012-13: 16.75"
2011-12: 98.5"

 

 

 


#27
Deweydog

Posted 19 March 2016 - 04:31 PM

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Poor Kasich... All winning Ohio did was stir up dust from eight years ago. Remember, more and more cops are running around with dashcams!
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All roads lead to Walgreens.  


#28
happ

Posted 20 March 2016 - 09:28 AM

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It was reported on TV that Sander's highest percentage of support comes from Seattle.



#29
Jesse

Posted 20 March 2016 - 09:47 AM

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Good read:

http://www.businessi...ountries-2016-3

#30
Front Ranger

Posted 20 March 2016 - 11:29 AM

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That author really only focuses on one argument: that the U.S. is not as homogeneous as Scandinavian countries. There are many other reasons to doubt that the Scandinavian social model would translate successfully to the U.S. (http://www.bloomberg...ndinavian-model). Perhaps the biggest reason is the massive difference in population size.

 

I do like the Finnish-American author's point that countries such as Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and Finland are still very much based on capitalism, despite their social programs and higher taxes, and that is a big part of the reason they have been able to sustain their economies. They aren't truly examples of "socialism working" in an economic sense.

 

I also find it interesting that the author does not address the elephant in the room: if life was so great in Finland, why did he/she leave? And apparently things aren't going so great in Finland right now, to the point where they're looking at going more socialist to try to fix things: http://www.fastcompa...-work-in-the-us

 

Interestingly, this author argues that the U.S. could probably duplicate Scandinavian models, but only because we are also blessed geographically and with abundant natural resources (like those countries): http://ivn.us/2015/0...yle-socialism/ 


Cool anomalies soothe the soul.


#31
Jesse

Posted 20 March 2016 - 11:40 AM

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That author really only focuses on one argument: that the U.S. is not as homogeneous as Scandinavian countries. There are many other reasons to doubt that the Scandinavian social model would translate successfully to the U.S. (http://www.bloomberg...ndinavian-model). Perhaps the biggest reason is the massive difference in population size.

I do like the Finnish-American author's point that countries such as Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and Finland are still very much based on capitalism, despite their social programs and higher taxes, and that is a big part of the reason they have been able to sustain their economies. They aren't truly examples of "socialism working" in an economic sense.

I also find it interesting that the author does not address the elephant in the room: if life was so great in Finland, why did he/she leave? And apparently things aren't going so great in Finland right now, to the point where they're looking at going more socialist to try to fix things: http://www.fastcompa...-work-in-the-us

Interestingly, this author argues that the U.S. could probably duplicate Scandinavian models, but only because we are also blessed geographically and with abundant natural resources (like those countries): http://ivn.us/2015/0...yle-socialism/


I don't think anyone is calling for pure socialism. That is a huge misconception that you seem intent on propagating. Sanders calls himself a Democratic Socialist, not a true socialist. There is a big difference. Democratic socialism is much more akin to what Scandanavian counties are practicing. This notion that capitalism will be totally done away with if Sanders gets his way is as laughable as it is completely fabricated.

#32
Jesse

Posted 20 March 2016 - 11:42 AM

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For the record I agree that pure socialism would not work for our country. But a system that is a bit more balanced between capitalism and socialism would be ideal. Right now things are leaning way too far toward the capitalism (crony capitalism in particular) side of things.

#33
Front Ranger

Posted 20 March 2016 - 11:44 AM

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I don't think anyone is calling for pure socialism. That is a huge misconception that you seem intent on propagating. Sanders calls himself a Democratic Socialist, not a true socialist. There is a big difference. Democratic socialism is much more akin to what Scandanavian counties are practicing. This notion that capitalism will be totally done away with if Sanders gets his way is as laughable as it is completely fabricated.

 

You totally misread my post. That was not a point I was trying to make at all. I actually spent a fair amount of time on it, clearly much more than you did reading it and responding to it. 

 

It's pretty disheartening to put some thought and effort into a post and then get a sad response like the one above.


Cool anomalies soothe the soul.


#34
Jesse

Posted 20 March 2016 - 11:44 AM

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Flatiron, did you actually read the article? The nature of your response is leading me to believe you barely skimmed it.

#35
Jesse

Posted 20 March 2016 - 11:46 AM

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You totally misread my post. Which I actually spent a fair amount of time on, clearly much more than you did reading it and responding to it.

It's pretty disheartening to put some thought and effort into a post and then get a sad response like the one above.


You said that the Scandanavian counties are not a true example of socialism working in the economic sense. This is implying that Sanders, or Sanders supporters, have been calling for a fully socialized economy, which they haven't. I don't think anyone has.

#36
Front Ranger

Posted 20 March 2016 - 11:47 AM

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For the record I agree that pure socialism would not work for our country. But a system that is a bit more balanced between capitalism and socialism would be ideal. Right now things are leaning way too far toward the capitalism (crony capitalism in particular) side of things.

 

I agree.

 

You seem to have a fairly warped view on where I actually stand.


Cool anomalies soothe the soul.


#37
Front Ranger

Posted 20 March 2016 - 11:48 AM

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Flatiron, did you actually read the article? The nature of your response is leading me to believe you barely skimmed it.

 

Yes, I did. You didn't have time to read the ones I posted, so I know you didn't read mine.


Cool anomalies soothe the soul.


#38
Front Ranger

Posted 20 March 2016 - 11:49 AM

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You said that the Scandanavian counties are not a true example of socialism working in the economic sense. This is implying that Sanders, or Sanders supporters, have been calling for a fully socialized economy, which they haven't. I don't think anyone has.

 

The author you posted said the same thing.


Cool anomalies soothe the soul.


#39
Jesse

Posted 20 March 2016 - 11:50 AM

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I agree.

You seem to have a fairly warped view on where I actually stand.


I think you have more of a warped view on where I do. Dewey's constant mischaracterizations of me have been effective to some, apparently.

#40
Jesse

Posted 20 March 2016 - 11:52 AM

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The author you posted said the same thing.


You took it out of context, and other posts you have made in the past have also implied that Sanders or his supporters (like me) want full-on socialism for this country. Which is just absurd.

#41
Jesse

Posted 20 March 2016 - 11:54 AM

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Yes, I did. You didn't have time to read the ones I posted, so I know you didn't read mine.


I think the whole citing every paragraph you write with some random article you clearly google searched minutes before thing is kind of silly.

#42
Front Ranger

Posted 20 March 2016 - 11:56 AM

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You took it out of context, and other posts you have made in the past have also implied that Sanders or his supporters (like me) want full-on socialism for this country. Which is just absurd.

 

That's simply not true.

 

You've proven over and over on here that you see the world as Sanders supporters vs. Non-Sanders supporters. You think because I don't believe Sanders is a good candidate that we don't agree on anything and that I'm just here to attack your positions. 

 

The world is not so black and white.


Cool anomalies soothe the soul.


#43
snow_wizard

Posted 20 March 2016 - 11:57 AM

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Yikes... Even my sister, who has been a retweet queen Bernie supporter, seems to be jumping ship. 

 

Why?  Aren't her convictions strong enough to withstand what other people are saying or doing?  It amazes me how quickly people jump ship when it appears their candidate is going to lose.


Death To Warm Anomalies!
 
winter.jpg

Winter 2016-17 Stats

Total snow = 9.8"
Days Min 32 or below = 61
Days Max 32 or below = 1
Days Max Below 40 = 29
Coldest Min = 16

#44
Front Ranger

Posted 20 March 2016 - 11:58 AM

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I think the whole citing every paragraph you write with some random article you clearly google searched minutes before thing is kind of silly.

 

It's called providing context. 

 

And expecting me to read your articles and you don't have to read mine is pretty silly.


Cool anomalies soothe the soul.


#45
Jesse

Posted 20 March 2016 - 11:59 AM

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That's simply not true.

You've proven over and over on here that you see the world as Sanders supporters vs. Non-Sanders supporters. You think because I don't believe Sanders is a good candidate that we don't agree on anything and that I'm just here to attack your positions.

The world is not so black and white.


Wow not at all true. This is so full of wrong I barely know where to start. :lol:

It's a shame because I was hoping for people to see my article and make some replies that are actually boderline thoughtful and not just kneejerk contrarian, but now it's buried in all of these garbage posts. You simply thrive off of arguments of this nature. It is your stock and trade. I always regret getting stuck in them.

#46
Jesse

Posted 20 March 2016 - 12:02 PM

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It's called providing context.

And expecting me to read your articles and you don't have to read mine is pretty silly.

I posted one article, not four, each of which was attached to a paragraph that simply exists as a point by point misinterpretation/misrepresentation of what the original article was trying to say in the first place.

#47
Deweydog

Posted 20 March 2016 - 12:03 PM

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I think you have more of a warped view on where I do. Dewey's constant mischaracterizations of me have been effective to some, apparently.


You're on your own. I've been pretty hands off with you for a while given the fact you've been a little beyond reason.

All roads lead to Walgreens.  


#48
Jesse

Posted 20 March 2016 - 12:04 PM

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Why? Aren't her convictions strong enough to withstand what other people are saying or doing? It amazes me how quickly people jump ship when it appears their candidate is going to lose.


I'm still on board.

Wishy-washiness probably runs in the Dog family.

#49
Jesse

Posted 20 March 2016 - 12:04 PM

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You're on your own. I've been pretty hands off with you for a while given the fact you've been a little beyond reason.


There you go again.

#50
Front Ranger

Posted 20 March 2016 - 12:05 PM

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You took it out of context, and other posts you have made in the past have also implied that Sanders or his supporters (like me) want full-on socialism for this country. Which is just absurd.

 

From the article you posted:

 

The problem is the way Sanders has talked about it. The way he’s embraced the term socialist has reinforced the American misunderstanding that universal social policies always require sacrifice for the good of others, and that such policies are anathema to the entrepreneurial, individualistic American spirit. It’s actually the other way around. For people to support a Nordic-style approach is not an act of altruism but of self-promotion. It’s also the future.

Americans are not wrong to abhor the specters of socialism and big government. In fact, as a proud Finn, I often like to remind my American friends that my countrymen in Finland fought two brutal wars against the Soviet Union to preserve Finland’s freedom and independence against socialism. No one wants to live in a society that doesn’t support individual liberty, entrepreneurship, and open markets.

But the truth is that free-market capitalism and universal social policies go well together—this isn’t about big government, it’s about smart government. I suspect that despite Hillary Clinton’s efforts to distance herself from Sanders, she probably knows this. After all, Clinton is also endorsing policies that sound an awful lot like what the Nordics have done: paid family leave, better public schools, and affordable day care, health care and college for all.

 

I said I liked the fact that this author differentiated between pure socialism and capitalistic socialism, like the Nordic countries have. 

Also interesting to note that he seems like more of a Hillary fan than you.  ;)


Cool anomalies soothe the soul.