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Unusual weather trivia that is hard to google

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#551
wx_statman

Posted 02 September 2018 - 10:07 AM

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I'll take Indiana off the list. I just don't see how it could happen, but it's interesting how many meteorologist accept the report. Perhaps they didn't look at the temperature reports that day.

I also wonder about the Pennsylvania reports as well. The temperatures for the 1918 event seem too high. I don't see and reports of temperatures below the 50's.

Could hail have been reported as snow?

 

It's certainly possible. That seems to have happened a lot back in the day. Still happens a lot today for that matter.



#552
wx_statman

Posted 02 September 2018 - 10:23 AM

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It wouldn’t shock me if it snowed in the highlands of PA in July back then. The highest elevations of the Appalachians have come pretty close to getting snow even in modern times. Upslope flow/orographic lifting provides both a cooling and moisture source.

 

I agree that higher parts of PA probably saw legitimate snowfall in July in the old days. It would have been an extremely rare event, but it was certainly plausible in my opinion. 

 

Even in modern times, Coudersport (1,650') saw a high of 52 on July 5, 1979 during a notably cold July airmass that affected the Midwest. Go up to 3,200 feet ASL on Mount Davis, introduce a colder 19th century airmass (feeding off a more persistent, later-lasting snowcover to the north), and bring in steady precip during the morning hours. It may have happened.


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#553
Scott

Posted 03 September 2018 - 06:10 PM

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I agree that higher parts of PA probably saw legitimate snowfall in July in the old days. 

 

Probably, but the one on 7/2/1918 seems a bit of a stretch.

 

The highest point in Bradford County is 2450 feet and even in 1918 there were many weather stations in the area ranging in elevation of up to 1760 feet, only about 700 feet below the highest elevation in the county.

 

The coldest weather station on that day (Ridgeway) had a high of 73 and a low of 46.  Most stations had lows in the 50's or lower 60's.

 

700 feet doesn't seem enough elevation to produce temperatures cold enough to produce snow, but it can snow at such temperatures on rare occasions.  Perhaps possible, but at least a bit of a stretch.  

 

There weren't enough stations around in 1859 to make a judgement. 


At home:

 

Coldest temperature thus far in 2018:   -26 on 2/21

 

Warmest temperature thus far in 2018:  99 on 7/8 (All time record high)

 

Precip thus far in 2018:   7.89 inches

 

Snowfall thus far in 2018:   35.7 inches

 

Last frost of early summer:  7/1

 

First frost of late summer:  8/29

 

Last snow of late spring:  5/1 

 

First snow of early fall:   


#554
Phil

Posted 03 September 2018 - 07:06 PM

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It also depends on conditions aloft. Cold ULLs w/ 850mb temperatures well below zero would still produce highs well into in the 50s or low 60s in July (given the depth of the mixing layer) yet such a scenario could easily produce wet snow with some elevation, cold core convection, and orographic lifting cooling the surface boundary layer.

I was driving through Martinsburg during the month of May a few years back (during the 2013-14 period IIRC). It was around 60 degrees with a very hard NW wind (under a deep 500mb trough). A squall then blew through..it started as rain, flipped to sleet/graupel, then flipped to fluffy snow, despite the warm temps.

I’ll bet you the ridgetop areas from NY/PA to WV/NC all saw snowfall during July back in the 18th/19th centuries.
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#555
Scott

Posted 03 September 2018 - 07:14 PM

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It still seems a stretch for the 1918 date, but remotely possible.

 

Anyway, the official record snow for the state of Pennsylvania in June is only a trace (and zero in July and August), but I believe June 1816 did see accumulated snowfall in parts of the state.

 

http://climate.met.p...taterecords.php

 

Of course there isn't a weather station on the highest peaks.  


At home:

 

Coldest temperature thus far in 2018:   -26 on 2/21

 

Warmest temperature thus far in 2018:  99 on 7/8 (All time record high)

 

Precip thus far in 2018:   7.89 inches

 

Snowfall thus far in 2018:   35.7 inches

 

Last frost of early summer:  7/1

 

First frost of late summer:  8/29

 

Last snow of late spring:  5/1 

 

First snow of early fall:   


#556
Phil

Posted 03 September 2018 - 07:24 PM

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It still seems a stretch, but remotely possible.

Anyway, the official record snow for the state of Pennsylvania in June is only a trace (and zero in July and August), but I believe June 1816 did see accumulated snowfall in parts of the state.

http://climate.met.p...taterecords.php

Of course there isn't a weather station on the highest peaks either.


I’ll have to look at the topography at the location in question before I jump to conclusions, but I know this region pretty well...it would not shock me (at all) if locations above ~ 1500ft in W-PA/WV saw snow in July in the 18th/19th centuries.

It snows regularly in the late May/early June timeframe down into WV even today. It’s snowed in May at Snowcrest during each of the last 7 years.

Nowadays it’s a huge challenge to see snow in July given the warmer climate and broad z-cells/+NAM background state, but back in those waning LIA years, things were quite different.
Personal Weather Station, Live Stream on Wunderground: https://www.wundergr...pwsdash#history

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#557
Scott

Posted 03 September 2018 - 07:43 PM

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I’ll have to look at the topography at the location in question before I jump to conclusions, but I know this region pretty well...it would not shock me (at all) if locations above ~ 1500ft in W-PA/WV saw snow in July in the 18th/19th centuries.

 

 

I could see it on the highest peaks on some days, but 7/2/1918 seems a stretch given the records for that day.   1816 is a good candidate for snow in July. 

 

It snows regularly in the late May/early June timeframe down into WV even today. 

 

 

It snows here until mid-June at times, but never in July.  Late May and early June is more common.   


At home:

 

Coldest temperature thus far in 2018:   -26 on 2/21

 

Warmest temperature thus far in 2018:  99 on 7/8 (All time record high)

 

Precip thus far in 2018:   7.89 inches

 

Snowfall thus far in 2018:   35.7 inches

 

Last frost of early summer:  7/1

 

First frost of late summer:  8/29

 

Last snow of late spring:  5/1 

 

First snow of early fall:   


#558
Scott

Posted 04 September 2018 - 05:41 PM

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Perhaps this question is too easy, but which US state has it's all time record high in both June and September?


At home:

 

Coldest temperature thus far in 2018:   -26 on 2/21

 

Warmest temperature thus far in 2018:  99 on 7/8 (All time record high)

 

Precip thus far in 2018:   7.89 inches

 

Snowfall thus far in 2018:   35.7 inches

 

Last frost of early summer:  7/1

 

First frost of late summer:  8/29

 

Last snow of late spring:  5/1 

 

First snow of early fall:   


#559
Scott

Posted 09 September 2018 - 07:31 PM

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Perhaps this question is too easy, but which US state has it's all time record high in both June and September?

 

The answer was South Carolina for anyone interested.


At home:

 

Coldest temperature thus far in 2018:   -26 on 2/21

 

Warmest temperature thus far in 2018:  99 on 7/8 (All time record high)

 

Precip thus far in 2018:   7.89 inches

 

Snowfall thus far in 2018:   35.7 inches

 

Last frost of early summer:  7/1

 

First frost of late summer:  8/29

 

Last snow of late spring:  5/1 

 

First snow of early fall:   


#560
Scott

Posted 09 September 2018 - 07:32 PM

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Here's another question just for fun.   

 

Which locations have glaciers in places that seldom have snow fall?  I can think of a few.  They are outside the US though.  Some are obvious, while some are surprising.  The reasons are different for different locations. 


At home:

 

Coldest temperature thus far in 2018:   -26 on 2/21

 

Warmest temperature thus far in 2018:  99 on 7/8 (All time record high)

 

Precip thus far in 2018:   7.89 inches

 

Snowfall thus far in 2018:   35.7 inches

 

Last frost of early summer:  7/1

 

First frost of late summer:  8/29

 

Last snow of late spring:  5/1 

 

First snow of early fall:   


#561
wx_statman

Posted 12 September 2018 - 09:07 PM

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The answer was South Carolina for anyone interested.

 

Ah. I actually checked Tennessee and Alabama, because of the September 1925 heat wave in that region. Didn't check South Carolina. 



#562
wx_statman

Posted 12 September 2018 - 09:09 PM

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Here's another question just for fun.   

 

Which locations have glaciers in places that seldom have snow fall?  I can think of a few.  They are outside the US though.  Some are obvious, while some are surprising.  The reasons are different for different locations. 

 

Franz Josef glacier in NZ immediately came to mind, thanks to its low-elevation reach in a maritime climate. 



#563
Scott

Posted 13 September 2018 - 07:04 AM

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Franz Josef glacier in NZ immediately came to mind, thanks to its low-elevation reach in a maritime climate. 

 

Yes, there.   The lowest parts of Fox and Franz Joseph Glaciers seldom have snowfall, even in winter, but the mountains above see a tremendous amount.   It's enough to push the glaciers almost down almost to sea level.

 

Here are the other places I was thinking of:
 

The Atacama Desert is the driest desert in the world (though parts of Antarctica may be just as dry), but a few glaciers do exist (at least for now).  Above 20,000 feet or so, it's cold enough that what (rare) snow does fall has formed glaciers over thousands of years.

 

Parts of northern Greenland see almost no snow (much of Greenland does see snow though), but it's too cold to melt what does fall, thus glaciers are formed.

 

Much of Antarctica is the same way.   Most of Antarctica sees very little snow (the exceptions are in places near the coast along the Antarctic Peninsula). Since the temperature never reaches freezing in most places in Antarctica, glaciers have formed over millions of years of accumulation. 

 

Another possible answer is parts of Mongolia, though summers are wet enough (all other seasons see almost no precipitation in much of the country) that it is a stretch to say that snow is seldom since summer does see snow on occasion in the areas where glaciers exist (the highest mountains of the Altai are actually wet by Mongolia standards-though still very dry [snow does fall in the Altai somewhat frequently], but some other areas in Mongolia with glaciers are much drier).


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At home:

 

Coldest temperature thus far in 2018:   -26 on 2/21

 

Warmest temperature thus far in 2018:  99 on 7/8 (All time record high)

 

Precip thus far in 2018:   7.89 inches

 

Snowfall thus far in 2018:   35.7 inches

 

Last frost of early summer:  7/1

 

First frost of late summer:  8/29

 

Last snow of late spring:  5/1 

 

First snow of early fall:   


#564
wx_statman

Posted 19 September 2018 - 09:58 AM

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The answer was South Carolina for anyone interested.

 

By the way, SC broke their state record high in 2012. So the June/September quirk is no longer true in that state.  :P



#565
Scott

Posted 19 September 2018 - 05:27 PM

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Yes; I missed that one for some reason. That leaves Alabama as the last state with its record high in September.

At home:

 

Coldest temperature thus far in 2018:   -26 on 2/21

 

Warmest temperature thus far in 2018:  99 on 7/8 (All time record high)

 

Precip thus far in 2018:   7.89 inches

 

Snowfall thus far in 2018:   35.7 inches

 

Last frost of early summer:  7/1

 

First frost of late summer:  8/29

 

Last snow of late spring:  5/1 

 

First snow of early fall: