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-Largest diurnal increase from solar radiation: 75 degrees at Deeth, NV on 9/21/1954, from 12 to 87 degrees.

 

 

While working at the bridge, I recorded a 72 diurnal increase from 8 to 80 degrees on 10/23/2003, but temperatures taken at the river, and because of cold air pooling it is kind of cheating.   At the official weather station, the range was 18 to 80, so only 62 degrees on that day (which is still pretty large). 

 

At the official weather station, since I lived here the temperature has gone from 32 to 95 in a day, a 63 degree rise.   At the house, 65 degrees is probably the most I have seen (32 to 97).

 

Just west of us though, Maybell has us beat.  On 2/1/1985 the temperature rose from -61 to 6, a rise of 67 degrees.   This was matched the next day when the temperature rose from -52 to 15.

 

This January, where I live the temperature went from -43 to +43 in two days, but that's not quite as impressive as some of the changes that have happened in eastern Montana.

 

Although not populated, Peter Sinks has some of the largest diurnal changes (possibly even the largest), even though there are no Chinooks there.

 

On 2/10/2010 the temperature went from -46 to 28, a 74 degree rise, comparable to the one at Deeth.

 

More recently, on 1/7/2017 Peter Sinks went from -42 to 23, but the impressive part was that 50 degrees of the change actually happened in two hours (which is pretty impressive considering that there are no Chinook winds there):

 

http://images.summitpost.org/original/991451.JPG

 

My guess is now that Peter Sinks has a permanent weather station (since 2010), it will probably break the Deeth record eventually, unless it has already and no one happened to notice.

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Would that have been considered a Chinook wind? I've always been under the impression that Chinook winds occur on the lee side of mountains, and obviously ND is far away from the Rockies.

 

Of course, the interesting thing about the name Chinook is that it comes from coastal PNW Native Americans, due to the warm Pacific origins of associated air masses.

 

Personally, I've witnessed Chinook winds here raise temps from about -10 to near 50 within 6 hours.

Chinook wind can refer to any breaking through of a marine airmass (west or SW winds) in the Central to Northern Rockies or Plains when there is cold air in place, Mr. Semantics. ;)

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Chinook wind can refer to any breaking through of a marine airmass (west or SW winds) in the Central to Northern Rockies or Plains when there is cold air in place, Mr. Semantics. ;)

 

How did I know you'd jump on this?  :D

 

I suppose it could, you just don't hear it in the Plains context nearly as much. And I've definitely seen it defined as relating to the lee side of mountains.

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How did I know you'd jump on this? :D

 

I suppose it could, you just don't hear it in the Plains context nearly as much. And I've definitely seen it defined as relating to the lee side of mountains.

North Dakota is on the lee side of the Rockies.

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So is New York.

 

Generally when you're referring to the lee side of something, you're not talking about a completely different region hundreds of miles away.

Bad analogy. North Dakota is much closer to/influenced by the Rockies. Especially the western part of the state, where that record was likely set.

 

This discussion is a good example of how you can be a total pain in the a** to debate on just about any topic, though. It's clearly a gift. :)

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Bad analogy. North Dakota is much closer to/influenced by the Rockies. Especially the western part of the state, where that record was likely set.

 

This discussion is a good example of how you can be a total pain in the a** to debate on just about any topic, though. It's clearly a gift. :)

 

Granville, ND is over 500 mi from the Rockies. 

 

Hey, as someone who lives in an area affected by Chinook winds all the time, I was just pointing out that I haven't seen that term in reference to areas that far east, away from the mountains. I never said he was necessarily wrong to call it that, it just struck me as odd.

 

Screenshot_7.png

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I'm done with this discussion Jared. Not worth my time, like usual.

 

Then why did you jump in and act like it's a big deal? Lame copout, as usual. I made a valid point, but of course you're refusing to acknowledge it, under the guise of "not worth your time".  :rolleyes:

 

You do realize that your responses make some molehill-sized points I make into mountains, right? If you were simply able to just say: "Sure, that makes sense. Chinook does usually refers to areas near mountains, but I think it could apply out on the plains as well", instead of inserting your personal butt-hurt, conversations would go much better. 

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Then why did you jump in and act like it's a big deal? Lame copout, as usual. I made a valid point, but of course you're refusing to acknowledge it, under the guise of "not worth your time". :rolleyes:

 

You do realize that your responses make some molehill-sized points I make into mountains, right? If you were simply able to just say: "Sure, that makes sense. Chinook does usually refers to areas near mountains, but I think it could apply out on the plains as well", instead of inserting your personal butt-hurt, conversations would go much better.

Yeah, no. You started nitpicking some pretty valuable climate data that Dmitri was providing, for no reason other than your apparent love of needling others on semantics. When I clarified, rather than just admitting that you were mistaken in your definition of Chinook winds and moving on, you continued down the semantic rabbit hole. As I said, just not worth my time.

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Here's my own prediction for Summer 2017:

 

http://images.summitpost.org/original/998111.jpg

Looks about right. :lol:

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So is New York.

 

Generally when you're referring to the lee side of something, you're not talking about a completely different region hundreds of miles away.

The Chinook actually has a larger temperature impact over the Plains than the leeward side of the mountains themselves.

 

The warming is derived via adiabatic compression, and that effect continues so long as the air is descending. Locations hundreds of miles downwind under the streamflow are affected, including the Plains.

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Granville, ND is over 500 mi from the Rockies.

 

Hey, as someone who lives in an area affected by Chinook winds all the time, I was just pointing out that I haven't seen that term in reference to areas that far east, away from the mountains. I never said he was necessarily wrong to call it that, it just struck me as odd.

 

Screenshot_7.png

You're doing it again.

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Yeah, no. You started nitpicking some pretty valuable climate data that Dmitri was providing, for no reason other than your apparent love of needling others on semantics. When I clarified, rather than just admitting that you were mistaken in your definition of Chinook winds and moving on, you continued down the semantic rabbit hole. As I said, just not worth my time.

 

This is 100% untrue. I wasn't needling at all, I brought up the point with respect and asked a question: "Would that have been considered a Chinook wind? I've always been under the impression that Chinook winds occur on the lee side of mountains".

 

Then, when you made your point, I actually made a partial concession to what you said: "I suppose it could, you just don't hear it in the Plains context nearly as much."

 

You, on the other hand, made absolute statements rather than questions, and made no hint of a concession to my points. So don't tell me I was the one needling and making an issue out of nothing here.

 

The way you interpret things does not always match reality.

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The Chinook actually has a larger temperature impact over the Plains than the leeward side of the mountains themselves.

 

The warming is derived via adiabatic compression, and that effect continues so long as the air is descending. Locations hundreds of miles downwind under the streamflow are affected, including the Plains.

 

Sure, as long as the air is descending the warming effect is there. My point was simply that usually, in my experience and by popular definition, "Chinook" refers to the winds coming down the lee side of mountains. His use struck me as odd, because I just haven't heard it associated with places that far away from the Rockies.

 

Researching it a little further, it seems that my initial impression was correct - pretty much anywhere you read about Chinook winds, it's closely associated with mountains nearby. It's not a HUGE deal like Jesse is making it out to be, just one of those things that weather nerds discuss.  :)

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Researching it a little further, it does not seem that my initial impression was incorrect. It's not a HUGE deal like Jesse is making it out to be, just one of those things that weather nerds discuss. :)

Dude, stop trying to frame this like something it wasn't. This is on you. I'm sure Phil and Dmitri would agree.

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Dude, stop trying to frame this like something it wasn't. This is on you. I'm sure Phil and Dmitri would agree.

 

I already pointed out the facts. I asked a question with respect, you made absolute statements. I made a concession, you did not.

 

Your response and misinterpretation of my intentions is on you. Try to have a civil discussion without making needless accusations.

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I already pointed out the facts. I asked a question with respect, you made absolute statements. I made a concession, you did not.

 

Your response and misinterpretation of my intentions is on you. Try to have a civil discussion without making needless accusations.

Wow, you are really twisted. :lol:

 

Are absolute statements inherently a bad thing? Especially when they are accurate ones which actually encompass a larger definition of a meteorological phenomenon? And why should I be making any concessions when my point was correct?

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Wow, you are really twisted. :lol:

 

Are absolute statements inherently a bad thing? Especially when they are accurate ones which actually encompass a larger definition of a meteorological phenomenon? And why should I be making any concessions when my point was correct?

 

So my point that Chinook winds are typically associated with places closer to the mountains was incorrect?

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Would that have been considered a Chinook wind? I've always been under the impression that Chinook winds occur on the lee side of mountains, and obviously ND is far away from the Rockies. 

 

Of course, the interesting thing about the name Chinook is that it comes from coastal PNW Native Americans, due to the warm Pacific origins of associated air masses.

 

Personally, I've witnessed Chinook winds here raise temps from about -10 to near 50 within 6 hours.

 

I'm not sure, at least technically. I've heard the term used for the Dakotas before. I'm guessing because the winds originate as a Chinook before fanning out over the prairies. I dunno. 

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While working at the bridge, I recorded a 72 diurnal increase from 8 to 80 degrees on 10/23/2003, but temperatures taken at the river, and because of cold air pooling it is kind of cheating.   At the official weather station, the range was 18 to 80, so only 62 degrees on that day (which is still pretty large). 

 

At the official weather station, since I lived here the temperature has gone from 32 to 95 in a day, a 63 degree rise.   At the house, 65 degrees is probably the most I have seen (32 to 97).

 

Just west of us though, Maybell has us beat.  On 2/1/1985 the temperature rose from -61 to 6, a rise of 67 degrees.   This was matched the next day when the temperature rose from -52 to 15.

 

This January, where I live the temperature went from -43 to +43 in two days, but that's not quite as impressive as some of the changes that have happened in eastern Montana.

 

Although not populated, Peter Sinks has some of the largest diurnal changes (possibly even the largest), even though there are no Chinooks there.

 

On 2/10/2010 the temperature went from -46 to 28, a 74 degree rise, comparable to the one at Deeth.

 

More recently, on 1/7/2017 Peter Sinks went from -42 to 23, but the impressive part was that 50 degrees of the change actually happened in two hours (which is pretty impressive considering that there are no Chinook winds there):

 

http://images.summitpost.org/original/991451.JPG

 

My guess is now that Peter Sinks has a permanent weather station (since 2010), it will probably break the Deeth record eventually, unless it has already and no one happened to notice.

 

Another good one is Snake River, Wyoming. Rose 72 degrees on March 17, 1906. Low of -50 and high of 22. The minimum was the March US record. 

 

Here in Oregon, Seneca can pull off 60+ degree diurnal ranges fairly easily.

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I'm not sure, at least technically. I've heard the term used for the Dakotas before. I'm guessing because the winds originate as a Chinook before fanning out over the prairies. I dunno. 

 

Yeah, like Phil said it's the same general mechanism as Chinook winds, it's just less pronounced and we don't have a common name for it for areas further east and far away from the Rockies.

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Yeah, like Phil said it's the same general mechanism as Chinook winds, it's just less pronounced and we don't have a common name for it for areas further east and far away from the Rockies.

Yes we do. The common name is Chinoook wind.

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What's the point of this debate? The "Chinook wind" is mostly just a laymans term for warm wind, and the name actually originated from the PNW, not the Rocky Mountains. No need to debate the semantics of the word.

 

https://naldc.nal.usda.gov/naldc/download.xhtml?id=IND43621096&content=PDF

 

It's just one word to describe a multitude of different meteorological process depending on the region it's occurring in:

 

The distribution of the Chinook is rather wide. It occurs most frequently in Washington, Oregon, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, and the Dakotas, in the united States, and in the region immediately north in the British Possessions. There are authentic instances recorded of this wind in Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, and even Wisconsin.

That said, meteorologically speaking, the most pronounced "Chinook" warming observed has occurred over the Northern Plains, not the leeward side of the Rocky Mountains or the PNW:

 

http://www.blackhillsweather.com/chinook.html

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What's the point of this debate? The "Chinook wind" is mostly just a laymans term for warm wind, and the name actually originated from the PNW, not the Rocky Mountains. No need to debate the semantics of the word.

 

https://naldc.nal.usda.gov/naldc/download.xhtml?id=IND43621096&content=PDF

 

It's just one word to describe a multitude of different meteorological process depending on the region it's occurring in:

 

 

That said, meteorologically speaking, the most pronounced "Chinook" warming observed has occurred over the Northern Plains, not the leeward side of the Rocky Mountains or the PNW:

 

http://www.blackhillsweather.com/chinook.html

 

It's not a big deal. But virtually every source I've seen online has talked about Chinook winds occurring on the lee side of mountains, specifically near the Rockies in wide reference. This is always how I've heard the term used. As someone who personally experiences these winds all the time, perhaps it stood out to me more than others who do not. 

 

Phil, I know you have personally very specifically defined terms like "derecho" before. And Jesse, you might notice and care if someone used the term "convergence zone" to refer to what you would identify as a deformation zone. These things get discussed on here all the time.

 

Screenshot_9.png

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It's not a big deal. But virtually every source I've seen online has talked about Chinook winds occurring on the lee side of mountains, specifically near the Rockies in wide reference. This is always how I've heard the term used. As someone who personally experiences these winds all the time, perhaps it stood out to me more than others who do not. 

 

Phil, I know you have personally very specifically defined terms like "derecho" before. And Jesse, you might care notice it if someone used the term "convergence zone" to refer to what you would identify as a deformation zone. These things get discussed on here all the time.

 

attachicon.gifScreenshot_9.png

 

The general idea of Chinook winds are as you say.

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Chinook winds are still Chinook winds when they're blowing across the Northern Plains. The term "Chinook" a reference to a source region, nothing more, nothing less.

 

The level of stupidiot it takes to misunderstand that reference is beyond anything that should exist on a freaking weather forum.

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Chinook winds are still Chinook winds when they're blowing across the Northern Plains. The term "Chinook" a reference to a source region, nothing more, nothing less.

 

You have to be a complete blowhard to misunderstand the reference.

 

1. Again, if you look up the term anywhere, it's almost always associated with mountains. I'm aware the name comes from the source region, I made that point in my first post about it.

 

2. When in doubt, resort to ad hominen! I do find the "blowhard" insult a bit humorous in this context, though.  ;)

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1. Again, if you look up the term anywhere, it's almost always associated with mountains. I'm aware the name comes from the source region, I made that point in my first post about it.

 

2. When in doubt, resort to ad hominen! I do find the "blowhard" insult a bit humorous in this context, though. ;)

They're *associated* with mountains, but not *confined* to mountains, because the winds and their effects are strongest in the valleys *downwind* of the mountains. They're still called "chinook winds".

 

Get it?

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From the National Weather Service, of Rapid City, SD:

 

https://www.weather.gov/unr/1943-01-22

 

The Black Hills area can experience spectacular temperature variations. Day-to-day changes occur as cold and warm fronts cross the northern Plains. However, temperature ranges across the area at a given time can be just as great. They happen rapidly as the wind direction changes, most notably the warming Chinook winds that have given the Black Hills the reputation as the “Banana Belt” of the Midwest. Other temperature differences are caused by inversions, when warm air flows over a shallow pool of cold air. Because the Black Hills rise above the plains like an island in a body of water, they are in the warm air layer....

 

......In Spearfish, the temperature rose from -4 at 7:32 a.m. to 45 degrees–a rise of 49 degrees—in just two minutes. A couple of hours later, it plunged from 54 back to -4 degrees–a change of 58 degrees in 27 minutes. In downtown Rapid City, the temperature had warmed to +5 degrees by 9:20 a.m., then it quickly warmed to 54 degrees by 9:40 am—a difference of 49 degrees in 20 minutes. The drastic temperature changes were logged on recording thermometers at the Montana-Dakota Utilities Company offices in both downtown Rapid City (then at 725 St. Joseph Street) and Spearfish.

 

The change in temperature was noticeable as people rounded street corners. Motorists were unable to see out their windshields when thick frost forms as they encountered the front and plate glass windows cracked. This event, which the Rapid City Daily Journal described as “crazily deviating temperatures” and “freakish warmth”, received national media coverage. It was featured in “Ripley’s Believe it or Not” and “Strange as it Seems” cartoons printed in newspapers across the country.

 

A detailed description of the event was written by Roland R. Hamann, Senior Observer with the U.S. Weather Bureau office (now National Weather Service) at Rapid City, South Dakota and published in the March 1943 Monthly Weather Review as “The Remarkable Temperature Fluctuations in the Black Hills Region January 1943” available at https://docs.lib.noaa.gov/rescue/mwr/071/mwr-071-03-0029.pdf

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They're *associated* with mountains, but not *confined* to mountains, because the winds and their effects are strongest in the valleys *downwind* of the mountains. They're still called "chinook winds".

 

Get it?

Hey, like I said, feel free to point to a source calling winds 500+ mi *downwind* from mountains "Chinooks".

 

I already agreed with you that the warming effect can occur (though to a lesser degree usually) far from mountains on the plains as the dry air continues to sink with the elevation.

 

But Chinook primarily refers to a downslope effect enhanced by mountains or hills. Which is why if you Google "Chinook winds", the main places talked about are Calgary, Great Falls, Cheyenne, Denver, etc.

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Summary of a historic Chinook event Rapid City, SD:

 

https://docs.lib.noaa.gov/rescue/mwr/071/mwr-071-03-0029.pdf

 

This region is habitually subject to surprising temper-

ature changes. Indeed, the chinook is so prevalent that

it may be considered a prominent climatological factor.

Some of the outstanding temperature changes contained

in the Rapid City record are as follows: The greatest

daily range at Rapid City was observed on January 13,

1913, when the temperature rose from -17' at 8 a.m. to

47' above zero at 10 p-m., a rise of 64' in 14 hours.

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Similar effects are felt through the Midwest as a result of the Chinooks:

 

The distribution of the Chinook is rather wide. It occurs most frequently in Washington, Oregon, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, and the Dakotas, in the united States, and in the region immediately north in the British Possessions. There are authentic instances recorded of this wind in Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, and even Wisconsin.

Adiabatic heating/drying on the leeward side of mountainous terrain does create the Chinook, however the winds continue well downstream from the mountains, and they're still referred to as "Chinook winds" for obvious reasons.

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Similar effects are felt through the Midwest as a result of the Chinooks:

 

 

Adiabatic heating/drying on the leeward side of mountainous terrain does create the Chinook, however the winds continue well downstream from the mountains, and they're still referred to as "Chinook winds" for obvious reasons.

 

What's the source for that? That's the first time I've seen anywhere talk about Chinook winds in the Midwest. Like I said before, I wasn't ruling it out, I was mainly asking the question because that's the not the normal region where Chinook winds are known to occur.

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What's the source for that? That's the first time I've seen anywhere talk about Chinook winds in the Midwest. Like I said before, I wasn't ruling it out, I was mainly asking the question because that's the not the normal region where Chinook winds are known to occur.

They're less common west of the Dakotas, but still occur on an infrequent basis.

 

https://www.revolvy.com/topic/Chinook%20wind&item_type=topic

 

https://docs.lib.noaa.gov/rescue/mwr/071/mwr-071-03-0029.pdf

 

https://naldc.nal.usda.gov/naldc/download.xhtml?id=IND43621096&content=PDF

 

Example: DC isn't located in the mountains, but we still experience a chinook-type effect here when winds are W/NW, and it's responsible for some of our most ferocious winter windstorms.

 

Cold air advection from the W/NW occurs aloft while adiabatic downslope warming occurs within the lower boundary layer leeward of the Appalachians. The result is an extremely deep mixing layer and instability which mixes down the strong winds aloft..often between 60-80mph west of the Fall Line.

 

As recently as mid-February, hurricane force gusts occurred through much of the DC area thanks to this phenomenon,

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They're less common west of the Dakotas, but still occur on an infrequent basis.

 

https://www.revolvy.com/topic/Chinook%20wind&item_type=topic

 

https://docs.lib.noaa.gov/rescue/mwr/071/mwr-071-03-0029.pdf

 

https://naldc.nal.usda.gov/naldc/download.xhtml?id=IND43621096&content=PDF

 

Example: DC isn't located in the mountains, but we still experience a chinook-type effect here when winds are W/NW, and it's responsible for some of our most ferocious winter windstorms.

 

Cold air advection from the W/NW occurs aloft while adiabatic downslope warming occurs within the lower boundary layer leeward of the Appalachians. The result is an extremely deep mixing layer and instability which mixes down the strong winds aloft..often between 60-80mph west of the Fall Line.

 

As recently as mid-February, hurricane force gusts occurred through much of the DC area thanks to this phenomenon,

 

Yeah, here we get two types of major downslope winds: Chinook (warm) and Bora (cold). The difference is mainly the source region and direction of the storm, as Bora winds are associated with Arctic air passage from the N/NW, while Chinook winds occur ahead of Pacific storms moving in from the W/SW.

 

https://www.nps.gov/romo/winds.htm

 

Here's an article about a Bora storm than brought 100+ mph gusts to the area last winter: http://denver.cbslocal.com/2015/11/18/bora-windstorm-whips-areas-near-denver-with-gusts-over-100-mph/

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