Past Weather Events Discussion 1800s to present

[snow_wizard]

Great stuff...what do you perchance have on Jan-Feb 1893 event in western WA? I know it was more impressive up there versus down here in Oregon.

A low of 3 on Jan 31 and 4 on Feb 1 for Seattle. An unofficial reading of -10 from Woodland Park (north of Seattle). An unofficial low of -15 in Skagit County (maybe near Mount Vernon). Seattle also had 45 inches of snow in a 7 day period.

[IbrChris]

I have a low of 8 listed for December 1879. That was probably Olympia, but it could have been Port Blakely on Bainbridge Island copied some of the monthly reports from the Seattle PI and that is where they got their observations from. I have microfilm of Olympia back to 1877. I think it's time to take a better look at those. I have always been more interested in the Central Puget Sound, but there is little data from there in the 1869 to 1883 period.

Snow_wizard, you're probably the one who would know this, but what was the lo max/ lo min at Seattle in Jan and Feb 1893 (that event)...also how much snowfall from beginning of event until end (generally Jan 25-Feb 7)? Also Olympia stats if you have them, same parameters.

 

Ok...so ~45" at Seattle in that event.

[wx_statman]

Great stuff...what do you perchance have on Jan-Feb 1893 event in western WA? I know it was more impressive up there versus down here in Oregon.

 

I think between you and Jim you guys have that event covered. I don't know what else I could add.

[wx_statman]

A low of 3 on Jan 31 and 4 on Feb 1 for Seattle. An unofficial reading of -10 from Woodland Park (north of Seattle). An unofficial low of -15 in Skagit County (maybe near Mount Vernon). Seattle also had 45 inches of snow in a 7 day period.

 

I remember reading that Woodland Park bottomed out at -6 in 1893....

[IbrChris]

Just to get an idea of the Jan-Feb 1893 snow totals....they were ASTRONOMICAL!!

Station | Jan | Feb | TOTAL
Eastsound | 6 | 28 | 34

Olga | 4 | 16 | 20

Neah Bay | 8 | 45 | 53

Port Angeles | 33 | ?? | ??

Ft Townsend | 13 | 25 | 38

Seattle | 15 | 30 | 45
Madrone | 20 | 63 | 83

Vashon | 28 | ?? | ??

Tacoma | 20 | 33 | 53

Olympia | 13 | 25 | 38

Aberdeen | 26 | 44 | 70

Centralia-Chehalis | 14 | 15 | 29

Silver Creek | 19 | 15 | 34

Ft Canby | 10 | ?? | ??

Some 2-month totals of 70-80" in lowland western WA...that is phenomenal.

[IbrChris]

No doubt.

Ever heard of a bit of hyperbole used as a rhetorical flourish? Why am I even asking...

 

Stalking someone is bad form on the interwebz just like it is in real life.

[BLI snowman]

Awesome stuff, guys.

 

A resource I like to play around with is looking at the original observer data on NCDC

 

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/IPS/coop/coop.html

 

Gives you a good amount of data from the 1800s, often expanding the data from what the main NCDC data set shows.

 

For one example, we now get data from Bellingham 2N back to 1910 whereas the main NCDC data only shows it back to 1915. This means we now can see several "new" cold spells at this particular station, including January 1911 (8/5 on 1/12/1911), November 1911 (21/15 on 11/10/1911),  January 1913 (22" of snow), and March 1913 (31/20 on 3/19/1913). 

[BLI snowman]

I'm interested in the legitimacy of the -20 reading at Longview on 1/21/1930. At face value it seems fantastic, especially considering that Longview is historically a mediocre spot for radiational cooling and there are no other temps there that are even close back to 1925. However, with clear conditions, a major arctic airmass, and upwards of 15" of snow on the ground it's certainly a figure that could have been at least close to accurate. If so, that would definitely make it the coldest temperature on record in the western WA lowlands.

 

Worth noting that nearby Castle Rock, a slightly better cooling spot, was "only" -13 that same morning so that makes me a little more wary of the Longview number. 

 

EDIT: Wow, I just looked at the Kelso station's original observation form from January 1930 and it mentions a low of -18 on 1/21/1930 with an 18" snow depth. I'm actually thinking the -20 is legit, which is mind boggling.

[snow_wizard]

Awesome stuff, guys.

 

A resource I like to play around with is looking at the original observer data on NCDC

 

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/IPS/coop/coop.html

 

Gives you a good amount of data from the 1800s, often expanding the data from what the main NCDC data set shows.

 

For one example, we now get data from Bellingham 2N back to 1910 whereas the main NCDC data only shows it back to 1915. This means we now can see several "new" cold spells at this particular station, including January 1911 (8/5 on 1/12/1911), November 1911 (21/15 on 11/10/1911),  January 1913 (22" of snow), and March 1913 (31/20 on 3/19/1913).

January 1913 is very interesting. Clearbrook shows 62 inches of snow that month making it their snowiest month by far. Certainly possible if there was enough marine air / outflow interaction. Evidence does suggest snowfalls that month were extremely variable across the region and seemed to be higher in outflow areas. While there are only partial records for Landsburg there were two days at different times of the month the depth was shown to be 24 inches. I have used that in combination with precip data from that station and temperature data from Snoqualmie Falls to arrive at a 45 inch total for Landsburg that month. Certainly an interesting month.

[Bham_Guy]

January 1913 is very interesting. Clearbrook shows 62 inches of snow that month making it their snowiest month by far. Certainly possible if there was enough marine air / outflow interaction. Evidence does suggest snowfalls that month were extremely variable across the region and seemed to be higher in outflow areas. While there are only partial records for Landsburg there two day at different times of the month the depth was shown to be 24 inches. I have used that in combination with precip data from that station and temperature data from Snoqualmie Falls to arrive at a 45 inch total for Landsburg that month. Certainly an interesting month.

 

I would like to believe that the snow numbers for Clearbrook are accurate, but the precip data for around the county during that stretch seems a bit odd. Some days it shows a lot of precip in Blaine and Clearbrook, but nothing for the Bellingham station. Then another time it shows a good deal of moisture in Bellingham and nothing in Clearbrook. I guess it's possible. I wonder how the new data for 2N stacks up.

[BLI snowman]

January 1913 is very interesting. Clearbrook shows 62 inches of snow that month making it their snowiest month by far. Certainly possible if there was enough marine air / outflow interaction. Evidence does suggest snowfalls that month were extremely variable across the region and seemed to be higher in outflow areas. While there are only partial records for Landsburg there two day at different times of the month the depth was shown to be 24 inches. I have used that in combination with precip data from that station and temperature data from Snoqualmie Falls to arrive at a 45 inch total for Landsburg that month. Certainly an interesting month.

 

I think the Clearbrook number was influenced in part by blowing/drifting, but it's very obvious that a ton of snow occurred there that month and there was probably a big, big difference between Bellingham and Sumas. Clearbrook data shows a snow depth of 36" on 1/13/1913 and a foot still on the ground there on the last day of the month. I'd have to go back and read some Bellingham Herald articles from that month when I get a chance just to see exactly what was up.

[snow_wizard]

I'm interested in the legitimacy of the -20 reading at Longview on 1/21/1930. At face value it seems fantastic, especially considering that Longview is historically a mediocre spot for radiational cooling and there are no other temps there that are even close back to 1925. However, with clear conditions, a major arctic airmass, and upwards of 15" of snow on the ground it's certainly a figure that could have been at least close to accurate. If so, that would definitely make it the coldest temperature on record in the western WA lowlands.

 

Worth noting that nearby Castle Rock, a slightly better cooling spot, was "only" -13 that same morning so that makes me a little more wary of the Longview number. 

 

EDIT: Wow, I just looked at the Kelso station's original observation form from January 1930 and it mentions a low of -18 on 1/21/1930 with an 18" snow depth. I'm actually thinking the -20 is legit, which is mind boggling.

Insane! And that was an El Nino winter. That and Jan 1969 go to show that historic cold and snow can happen in January with a Nino. Amazing there was so much snow down that way and only a little in Seattle.

[IbrChris]

January 1913 is very interesting. Clearbrook shows 62 inches of snow that month making it their snowiest month by far. Certainly possible if there was enough marine air / outflow interaction. Evidence does suggest snowfalls that month were extremely variable across the region and seemed to be higher in outflow areas. While there are only partial records for Landsburg there were two days at different times of the month the depth was shown to be 24 inches. I have used that in combination with precip data from that station and temperature data from Snoqualmie Falls to arrive at a 45 inch total for Landsburg that month. Certainly an interesting month.

Can the Clearbrook value be corroborated with any other sites in SW BC and NW WA?

[snow_wizard]

Just to get an idea of the Jan-Feb 1893 snow totals....they were ASTRONOMICAL!!

 

Station | Jan | Feb | TOTAL

Eastsound | 6 | 28 | 34

Olga | 4 | 16 | 20

Neah Bay | 8 | 45 | 53

Port Angeles | 33 | ?? | ??

Ft Townsend | 13 | 25 | 38

Seattle | 15 | 30 | 45

Madrone | 20 | 63 | 83

Vashon | 28 | ?? | ??

Tacoma | 20 | 33 | 53

Olympia | 13 | 25 | 38

Aberdeen | 26 | 44 | 70

Centralia-Chehalis | 14 | 15 | 29

Silver Creek | 19 | 15 | 34

Ft Canby | 10 | ?? | ??

 

Some 2-month totals of 70-80" in lowland western WA...that is phenomenal.

The Tacoma number is pretty eye popping! For combination of snow and cold I think 1893 is the hands down winner for Western WA...at least north of Olympia. There are some stories in the Seattle PI that really drive home the point of how brutal that stretch was.

[IbrChris]

The Tacoma number is pretty eye popping! For combination of snow and cold I think 1893 is the hands down winner for Western WA...at least north of Olympia. There are some stories in the Seattle PI that really drive home the point of how brutal that stretch was.

BC stations saw decent snow as well with 50-60" from Victoria to Nanaimo and over 50" at Agassiz. The coastal snow totals I wouldn't have believed without seeing the COOP sheets myself. 70" at Aberdeen in 2 months is frankly such a tail event it's tough to fathom something similar happening nowadays but the fact remains it did and prodigious totals are found all across western WA.

[snow_wizard]

Can the Clearbrook value be corroborated with any other sites in SW BC and NW WA?

Agassiz had 89 inches that month.

[wx_statman]

Awesome stuff, guys.

 

A resource I like to play around with is looking at the original observer data on NCDC

 

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/IPS/coop/coop.html

 

Gives you a good amount of data from the 1800s, often expanding the data from what the main NCDC data set shows.

 

For one example, we now get data from Bellingham 2N back to 1910 whereas the main NCDC data only shows it back to 1915. This means we now can see several "new" cold spells at this particular station, including January 1911 (8/5 on 1/12/1911), November 1911 (21/15 on 11/10/1911),  January 1913 (22" of snow), and March 1913 (31/20 on 3/19/1913).

 

Yeah the original COOP observation forms are a great resource.

[IbrChris]

I'm interested in the legitimacy of the -20 reading at Longview on 1/21/1930. At face value it seems fantastic, especially considering that Longview is historically a mediocre spot for radiational cooling and there are no other temps there that are even close back to 1925. However, with clear conditions, a major arctic airmass, and upwards of 15" of snow on the ground it's certainly a figure that could have been at least close to accurate. If so, that would definitely make it the coldest temperature on record in the western WA lowlands.

 

Worth noting that nearby Castle Rock, a slightly better cooling spot, was "only" -13 that same morning so that makes me a little more wary of the Longview number.

 

EDIT: Wow, I just looked at the Kelso station's original observation form from January 1930 and it mentions a low of -18 on 1/21/1930 with an 18" snow depth. I'm actually thinking the -20 is legit, which is mind boggling.

I likewise was very skeptical of the -24 on 12-12-1919 at McMinnville until I saw it was corroborated by several other nearby readings in the mid teens below zero at Corvallis and Forest Grove. Western portion of the valley tends to fare colder as well with greater tendency to go calm while it's still blowing from Salem to Portland due to Gorge outflow.

[wx_statman]

I'm interested in the legitimacy of the -20 reading at Longview on 1/21/1930. At face value it seems fantastic, especially considering that Longview is historically a mediocre spot for radiational cooling and there are no other temps there that are even close back to 1925. However, with clear conditions, a major arctic airmass, and upwards of 15" of snow on the ground it's certainly a figure that could have been at least close to accurate. If so, that would definitely make it the coldest temperature on record in the western WA lowlands.

 

Worth noting that nearby Castle Rock, a slightly better cooling spot, was "only" -13 that same morning so that makes me a little more wary of the Longview number. 

 

EDIT: Wow, I just looked at the Kelso station's original observation form from January 1930 and it mentions a low of -18 on 1/21/1930 with an 18" snow depth. I'm actually thinking the -20 is legit, which is mind boggling.

 

That -20 from Longview does seem legit. Hillsboro hit -14. Nice find with the Kelso info, that only adds credence to Longview's reading.

[IbrChris]

Have you noted that I've deleted the post the you'd had trouble with. ?

 

— With your having appreciated it incorrectly, there's really no point to my having submitted it.

 

Your mis-impressions above retracted, this will "go" too.

 

Not much more I can do about them.

How about posting about N Calif historical weather. Perhaps late 19th century snowfalls in the Sacramento Valley. Just today I read that Antioch, CA had 7" of snow in Jan 1888. Sacramento fell to 17 that month and 16 at Red Bluff. Even Eureka dropped to 20, a remarkable achievement in that location. This is what I mean by contribute.

[snow_wizard]

Could somebody please provide a link for the Olympia records which begin in 1877? I have them on microfilm, but it would be much easier to view them online if they are free and easy to get to. The nice thing about the microfilm, however, is notes are included which can be pretty important.

[wx_statman]

Regarding January 1913, I'm going to copy and paste a post I made in a different thread:

 

There was something wacky going on in January 1913.

 

Agassiz does show 89", and Chilliwack shows 71". Those numbers seem to support the Clearbrook total, which is actually 64.5".

 

But then you look down the valley and Blaine only shows 27" with no missing data. Downtown Bellingham only shows 21". It gets even more interesting if you look at the January 10-13 period. Clearbrook supposedly received 50" of their 64.5" total in that four day span. But Chilliwack only shows 24.5" accumulated in that stretch, out of a monthly total of 71". That makes me really question the Clearbrook data.

[wx_statman]

I likewise was very skeptical of the -24 on 12-12-1919 at McMinnville until I saw it was corroborated by several other nearby readings in the mid teens below zero at Corvallis and Forest Grove. Western portion of the valley tends to fare colder as well with greater tendency to go calm while it's still blowing from Salem to Portland due to Gorge outflow.

 

Raymond Hatton also referenced a -22 reading from Molalla in December 1919. That was in his book "Portland Oregon Weather and Climate." He seemed real solid on his stats so I have no reason to question him.

[wx_statman]

.. general disdain, My "sad existence", are in the way right now. Perhaps another day.

 

.. This won't be here in 15 mins. Cheers.

 

Richard, lets try to keep this thread focused on past weather events. If you have relevant information then by all means contribute.

 

Thank you.

[IbrChris]

Raymond Hatton also referenced a -22 reading from Molalla in December 1919. That was in his book "Portland Oregon Weather and Climate." He seemed real solid on his stats so I have no reason to question him.

Neat! Given the information at our disposal though we should be able to locate a source for the reading if it wasn't apocryphal (word of mouth etc). -20 in Willamette Valley is as rare as $90 million Powerball jackpots (almost).

[wx_statman]

Could somebody please provide a link for the Olympia records which begin in 1877? I have them on microfilm, but it would be much easier to view them online if they are free and easy to get to. The nice thing about the microfilm, however, is notes are included which can be pretty important.

 

I don't think its available online. I paid $$ for a CSV file a few years ago. Its from the Midwest Regional Climate Center. They have an ongoing project to QC and digitize all signal service and Army fort data from the 19th century. God bless those guys.  

 

http://www.sws.uiuc.edu/atmos/clirecord.asp

 

If you want I can email the CSV file to you.

[IbrChris]

 

Ok. Any other advice. Please don't hesitate to share it.

 

I just had the idea that since you engaged me on this thread you are interested in the thread topic. While my visits to Cali have consisted mainly of airport waiting areas I am also interested in the historical climate down there.

 

I was working a couple years back on the day in Sept when downtown LA hit their all-time record high of 113 (at the Civic Center). I recall some pretty crazy power prices flowing into Cali from the north. Unfortunately we didn't have much length (ie extra power to sell).

[wx_statman]

Neat! Given the information at our disposal though we should be able to locate a source for the reading if it wasn't apocryphal (word of mouth etc). -20 in Willamette Valley is as rare as $90 million Powerball jackpots (almost).

 

Yeah I hope it wasn't just a press report. Those can be VERY unreliable!

[IbrChris]

I don't think its available online. I paid $$ for a CSV file a few years ago. Its from the Midwest Regional Climate Center. They have an ongoing project to QC and digitize all signal service and Army fort data from the 19th century. God bless those guys.

 

http://www.sws.uiuc.edu/atmos/clirecord.asp

 

If you want I can email the CSV file to you.

I'd love a copy of that .csv

 

Unfortunately while most of it is now keyed it doesn't seem to be available in an online format yet. I anticipate within a year or two it will be. Shouldn't have to pay for it, we all paid for it with our tax dollars.

[wx_statman]

I'd love a copy of that .csv

 

Unfortunately while most of it is now keyed it doesn't seem to be available in an online format yet. I anticipate within a year or two it will be. Shouldn't have to pay for it, we all paid for it with our tax dollars.

 

I hope all of it becomes free and accessible online. And why shouldn't it?

 

You can send me your email address through the messenger feature. I'll get that to you tomorrow.

[SilverFallsAndrew]

The -15 at Mt. Angel in Feb. 1899 is pretty shocking and I have often wondered about its authenticity. Especially given that the station was located on the Abbey Hill a couple hundred feet off the valley floor. 

 

Its unfortunate the modern Silverton Coop station is on a hill as well. For instance they only hit 0 on 12/8/72 when SLE hit -12 and Silver Falls hit -9. The Mesonet which is about 1/2 mile away, but at the bottom of the hill routinely records much colder temperatures as Silverton at valley floor level is actually a decent radiational cooling spot.

[IbrChris]

I hope all of it becomes free and accessible online. And why shouldn't it?

 

You can send me your email address through the messenger feature. I'll get that to you tomorrow.

Well, there's these things called greedy "public" universities that believe they should be able to charge someone in perpetuity to access data that is public domain. University of Illinois-Urbana I wouldn't touch with a 10' pole. Overpriced cesspool. In short they are trying to milk it for all it's worth because they keyed the data. Thing is they are all government employees and we paid for the data already, and their salaries.

[snow_wizard]

I don't think its available online. I paid $$ for a CSV file a few years ago. Its from the Midwest Regional Climate Center. They have an ongoing project to QC and digitize all signal service and Army fort data from the 19th century. God bless those guys.  

 

http://www.sws.uiuc.edu/atmos/clirecord.asp

 

If you want I can email the CSV file to you.

I am certainly interested in that! I will PM my email address to you. One very cool thing I have is a list of all of the places in Washington where weather data was recorded in the 19th century (prior to 1893) including a rundown of all of the months that records were kept. There are dozens of stations in all, and I have about half of the available ones on microfilm. One I'm really anxious to see made available is Bainbridge Island and I do not have the roll of microfilm that was on. That was the closest place to Seattle to keep records in the 1878 through 1883 period. Tacoma records are available from 1884 through Mar 1887 and then Seattle is available for Apr 1887 through Sept 1888 and then Aug 1890 through Dec 1892 (all of which I have on microfilm). 1893 is actually one of the trickiest years to get for Seattle. I came across bits and pieces of those in a number of places and pieced it all together. The big dead spot for the Central and South Sound (starting from 1850) is 1869 through early 1877. Thankfully there are some partial records for Seattle for a good part of 1870 and partial records from Dec 1871.

[IbrChris]

I wish ACIS/Threadex had taken an interest in the old Forts data, they would have been the best folks to digitize and QC it. They aren't interested likely because of the incompleteness and questionable validity of much of the old Signal Service data. It isn't as trustworthy as Weather Bureau stuff but it's all we've got.

[IbrChris]

I am certainly interested in that! I will PM my email address to you. One very cool thing I have is a list of all of the places in Washington where weather data was recorded in the 19th century (prior to 1893) including a rundown of all of the months that records were kept. There are dozens of stations in all, and I have about half of the available ones on microfilm. One I'm really anxious to see made available is Bainbridge Island and I do not have the roll of microfilm that was on. That was the closest place to Seattle to keep records in the 1878 through 1883 period. Tacoma records are available from 1884 through Mar 1887 and then Seattle is available for Apr 1887 through Sept 1888 and then Aug 1890 through Dec 1892 (all of which I have on microfilm). 1893 is actually one of the trickiest years to get for Seattle. I came across bits and pieces of those in a number of places and pieced it all together. The big dead spot for the Central and South Sound (starting from 1850) is 1869 through early 1877. Thankfully there are some partial records for Seattle for a good part of 1870 and partial records from Dec 1871.

So you're saying there's Seattle records for Jan 1888? I don't have to rely on Denny's account of a -2 reading on Jan 15th without any authoritative source (other than his word of mouth)? Great! Haven't ever seen Jan 1888 full month for Seattle.

[IbrChris]

WX Statman feel free to dump data on me

 

Will PM my email. Thx again.

 

Of course the one I really drool over is Ft Vancouver 1849-1868. It's complete aside from a few missing months as near as I can tell.

[snow_wizard]

So you're saying there's Seattle records for Jan 1888? I don't have to rely on Denny's account of a -2 reading on Jan 15th without any authoritative source (other than his word of mouth)? Great! Haven't ever seen Jan 1888 full month for Seattle.

I have Jan 1888 transcribed, but I can't remember if it was Seattle or Tacoma. I will have to check on that next time I go to the library. The chart I have does show a -2 reading. It also had a 17/2 day with 6 inches of snow.

[snow_wizard]

BTW I do know of a firm -10 reading for Bothell WA in Jan 1950. I found an article about it in the Seattle Times and it turns out the guy who recorded it was an official observer and was using a thermometer sanctioned by the Weather Bureau. No question that number is real.

[IbrChris]

One of only a few unquestionable minus teens readings in the Puget Sound region. That darn body of water is always screwing up temp extremes whether cold or hot. Thanks Ice Age.

[IbrChris]

Thanks Fred.