First Evidence of Planet-Wide Groundwater System on Mars.

[Andie]

https://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Science/Mars_Express/First_evidence_of_planet-wide_groundwater_system_on_Mars

 

“Early Mars was a watery world, but as the planet’s climate changed this water retreated below the surface to form pools and ‘groundwater’,” says lead author Francesco Salese of Utrecht University, the Netherlands.

 

“We traced this water in our study, as its scale and role is a matter of debate, and we found the first geological evidence of a planet-wide groundwater system on Mars.”

 

 

__________________________

https://www.sciencealert.com/researchers-first-geological-evidence-of-mars-planet-wide-groundwater-system

 

"Early Mars was a watery world, but as the planet's climate changed this water retreated below the surface to form pools and 'groundwater'," European Space Agency (ESA) researcher Francesco Salese said in a press release.

 

"We traced this water in our study, as its scale and role is a matter of debate," he continued, "and we found the first geological evidence of a planet-wide groundwater system on Mars."

 

 

[Wxmidatlantic]

I spent many years studying Mars surface hydro cycle. Wherever atmospheres exist I just got to try and understand it.

 

It snows at night in the mid high lattatudes. The atmosphere becomes saturated at -80C. This goes a long way to explain the observed gullies in crater walls. Not to mention the seeps.

 

I will include an image of overnight snowfall on Mars.

 

[Wxmidatlantic]

The Curiosity Rover found springs in Gale Crater, Mars.

 

[Wxmidatlantic]

Was going over my Mars data. Found gif of cumulaform clouds scuding overhead of the Phoenix Lander. This is on the edge of arctic region. Recorded winds over 100mph.

 

[Wxmidatlantic]

The real first evidence of groundwater was current images of frozen lakes in craters. It still makes it to the surface.

 

This image taken by ESA Mars Express...

 

[Andie]

Was going over my Mars data. Found gif of cumulaform clouds scuding overhead of the Phoenix Lander. This is on the edge of arctic region. Recorded winds over 100mph.

 

phx_enhanced_119_1DC6.gif

Looks like a winter day in the desert.

[Wxmidatlantic]

An interesting phenomenon with water outgassing on Mars is snow/frost wind tails. The pressure on Mars never falls below 6.5 millibars. That is the triple point of water. Perchlorates drop freezing point to -20 to -40C.

 

This first image shows wind tails.

 

 

At the Phoenix site, water melt in trench and condensation on lander legs.

 

First image shows damp spot from exposed ice at max heating. Cross eyed 3D.

 

 

Condensation:

 

[Wxmidatlantic]

First evidence, I don't think so. Some white shoe boys wanted to post a paper, in a journal.

 

I got to kill 6 months before the autumnal egualnox. May just unload here.

[Andie]

Water and some level of life usually go hand in hand.

I hope I live to hear the degree of life that may have existed on Mars. The planet likely lost its atmosphere due to a catastrophic occurrance of some kind.

 

All this information under a tight lid is not helping. If anything, it creates conspiracy BS that just gets in the way of facts.

[Wxmidatlantic]

Information is hidden, because knowledge is power. The images released to the public are monochrome graysscale and false color. Do you believe NASA would build a 30 billion dollar lander and put a $25 camera on it?

 

Strictly speaking, "conspiracy theory," was a CIA talking point issued to media outlets to suppress questioning of the Kennedy assassination. It it still used today. That does not mean that some people would cunstruct fantasy through ignorance and paredolia. 

 

There are Mars forums. Not as many as years past. The first, "conspiracy," was the true colors of Mars. NASA has given us only RBG filters, with no white balance. That said, they can't hide everything.

 

The Mars surface outgassing and transient liguid water are well documented. The truely dynamic atmosphere is still obscured.

 

Two images of summer outgassing on Mars polar scarp, then spring snow, snowdrifts.

 

 

 

Anual snowfall in Arctic regions are about 3 meters. 90% is H2O snow, then, a thin CO2 layer. This images shows this in ccomparison. That would be a 1000ft snowdrift up the scarp...

 

[Wxmidatlantic]

A better view of snow and drifting up the scarp.. Rotation means everything.

 

[Wxmidatlantic]

The greatest evidence of ground water was this MOC image. Clearly showing groundwater  pooling in crater floor, and vapor plume.

 

[Wxmidatlantic]

But we are atmospheric scientist. What's really going on on Mars? First image from Viking probe, 1970's.

That's the false color, monochrome. I will post and explain.

 

 

Then there was the Mars MOC. Showing storms with winds of 150mph skirting along polar thermal boundary.. See the difference?

 

 

The the Europeans got involved. Mars Express, who have leaked  some controversial images I will share later.ESA. See the difference?

 

 

NASA MRO leaked before Phoenix Lander. see the difference?

 

 

 

[Wxmidatlantic]

While we shake off the high sun angle blues, let's get back to Mars.

 

Mars surface hydro cycle is dependent on ground water eruptions. These range from seeps, to catastrophic eruptions. Because of extreme cold the annual polar phase change mechanism would grind to a halt.

 

Current and past Mars ground water seeps:

 

Gale Crater Curiosity Rover:

 

 

Global orbiters:

 

 

 

Some result in pooling:

 

[Wxmidatlantic]

Catastrophic flows take place in geological time. Every few million years.

 

Orbiter Images:

 

ESA:

 

 

 

[Wxmidatlantic]

The Mars atmosphere is dynamic. From max heating dust devils, to tornadic level cyclones. This image was captured by the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter. (MRO)

 

Tornatic vortex extending to 7000 ft...

 

[Wxmidatlantic]

Last post of the day I hope. I apologize for the noise from time to time.

 

Typical oragraphic clounds near Olympis Mounds:

 

 

What NASA tried to pass off as oragrahic near a volcano a few weeks ago. See the difference?

 

[Wxmidatlantic]

More to come...

[Andie]

Interesting stuff.

 

In all these images, has there been anything suspicious in your estimation as in ancient civilization?

I have maintained, since before it was popular, that has life on it that would be able to be ID'd as,life as we know it.

 

But I do agree that water was more plentiful in their distant past.

Something happened to change the planet in a massive way.

[Den Socling]

Water and some level of life usually go hand in hand.

I hope I live to hear the degree of life that may have existed on Mars. The planet likely lost its atmosphere due to a catastrophic occurrance of some kind.

 

All this information under a tight lid is not helping. If anything, it creates conspiracy BS that just gets in the way of facts.

 

I'm new here and I'm amazed at the pictures you all have posted. And I expect that Andie is correct.

[Andie]

There is an extreme "scar" on the planet that looks like something struck it with great force. Many debate the cause, but the effect is a deep deep canyon that looks like a violent scar.

As to life, it may only have evolved to what we call extremophiles. Scientists believe the chances of life on several moons is possible due to the presence of water.

 

My personal opinion is that life is the rule, not the exception. Intelligent life is out there. We may never know it or encounter it, but planets have a way of evolving even in extreme conditions.

Something happened to Mars. It's man's nature to be curious, so we'll be there soon and I hope I live to find out.

 

If the earth was hit like this, it would be a wasteland as well.

[Wxmidatlantic]

Starting to shake off PWWS, post winter weather syndrome. Decided to kick things back off with an event last week in Gale Crater, Mars. Mars moon Phobos cast shadow on high clouds as it passed just north. The Curiosity Rover captured images near sunset.

 

Gif

 

[Wxmidatlantic]

Life on Mars. Phoenix lander found sacks of fluid moving in microscopic imager. Will include still image and YouTube link.

 

 

Unable to get URL on mobile. Search: "life found moving on Mars Phoenix lander." On YouTube. Just glanced, can't vouch for everything, but movement was seen.

[Wxmidatlantic]

To understand Mars is to understand "microclimate." This is a state where favourable conditions exist in unfavourable environments. We are learning..

 

Wind tale gif 2 seconds Mars Phoenix lander.

 

[Andie]

Life on Mars. Phoenix lander found sacks of fluid moving in microscopic imager. Will include still image and YouTube link.

hqdefault.jpg

Unable to get URL on mobile. Search: "life found moving on Mars Phoenix lander." On YouTube. Just glanced, can't vouch for everything, but movement was seen.

Could it be wind moving the water droplet?

[Andie]

.......uh, Sister.

 

Any information or further comments on that from NASA?

[Wxmidatlantic]

The microscopic imager is located inside the lander. It had a scoop delivery on a belt drive. No way for wind to influence. Most likely the blobs are water sacks with perchlorate. Possibility of microbes making a living inside.

 

The wind data is limited Frome Phoenix. Insight lander recorded winds gusting to 40 mph During max heating on most sols. Curiosity Rover viewed gusty winds dancing over the dunes this week in Gale Crater.

 

Gif image below:

 

[Wxmidatlantic]

Getting back on topic. Ground water eruptions or seeps have been seen since the 1970's. Viking images showed ponding in crater floors. NASA said this was impossible. In the end it turned out to be a data entry problem. Pressures are above the triple point of water. They just didn't know that liguid water on Mars can exist at -70f. They had no idea of perchlorates.the best antifreeze known to man.

 

Images of groundwater seeps and ponding. Because of gray-scale imaging it is hard to tell this is a snowscape:

 

 

 

In the end ground water movement produces a spectrum of footprints; From outgassing producing dry slides to liguid brine gullies:

 

[Wxmidatlantic]

Fresh water exist on the surface of Mars, but it is transitory. It is associated with snow melt. lens ice developes creating a microclimate, with higher pressures below the lens and the associated greenhouse heating mechanism. This quickly interacts with surface salts that produce a slurry and ponding.

 

This image captures this seasonal phenomenon:

 

 

As an aside: Have you ever wondered what a full moon looked like on Mars? This Image was captured by the Spirit Rover.:

 

[Wxmidatlantic]

The presence of transient liguid water and nighty condensation frost on the surface makes these images very interesting. Methane plumes are seasonal on Mars. The two sources of methane are biological and geological. Geology is not seasonal.

 

Image methane plumes:

 

 

This ESA image shows seasonal greening of equatorial hills. This may be mineral reactions to moisture or biological. We know of no surface mineral reactions producing methane.

 

Good stuff:

 

[Wxmidatlantic]

In conclusion, evidence of groundwater has been around for over 30 years. An active hydro cycle must have a source.

 

The first clue was fog and low clouds in Valles Marineris. Viking orbiter view:

 

 

Then we needed a source. Groundwater surface eruptions and gullies are well documented, it's interaction with volcanic forces is not. I posted a plume near a volcano earlier, this was dismissed as an oragraphic cloud. I contested this orbiter image.

 

Tne reason is this Viking orbiter image. This we see on the horizontal plane. It resembles a cumulonimbus cloud. Groundwater and volcanic interaction most likely. We can only speculate the surface weather associated with this. Recently in Baltimore we had snow and hail. I had never witnessed this before. A plausible scenario. Superheated groundwater fueling the convection.

 

Image:

 

[Den Socling]

Another suggestion that life might still exist on Mars.

 

https://www.space.com/could-mars-support-life-today.html?utm_source=sdc-newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20190509-sdc

[Andie]

Another suggestion that life might still exist on Mars.

 

https://www.space.com/could-mars-support-life-today.html?utm_source=sdc-newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20190509-sdc

I hope to live to get answers to the mystery. I suspect it's there.

[OKwx2k4]

This is very fascinating stuff.

[Black Hole]

Yeah, a lot of good stuff in here.

[Black Hole]

I bet that many planets have or used to have water on their surface but since it takes an active magnetic field to maintain the atmosphere a lot of them end up like Mars.

[Wxmidatlantic]

Decided to post a few more Interesting Mars images. The first MOC image was taken at the base of a Mars Volcano. Collapsed lava tubes are clearly visible. We see what appears to be steam rising from vents. Because of grayscale imaging certainty is lost, windblown dust is then an argument. The second MOC image shows local windblown dust gif. These images cover a relatively similar sized area. Element size and diffusional difference is obvious.

 

 

[Wxmidatlantic]

This image was taken by the Phoenix lander located in the Martian northern arctic region in Summer. The imager was pointed overhead and captured a few afternoon clouds passing by.

 

[Wxmidatlantic]

We also need a true color view of the Martian dynamic atmosphere. Image by ESA Mars Express.

 

[Wxmidatlantic]

This true color ESA image shows a developing storm in Hellas Planitia. The Basin is located in the southern hemisphere and is a large impact crater.