IbrChris Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Peter Sinks are a series of three "sinks" or depressions without an outlet (referred to as dolines geologically) located in the Bear River Range of northern Utah between Logan and Bear Lake. They are known as one of the coldest spots in the lower 48 with a record low of -69 recorded in Feb 1985 (one degree shy of Lower 48 US record). The area has a reverse-treeline (lower portion of sinks have no trees due to cold temperatures rather than lack of moisture).Campbell Scientific has partnered with Utah State University's Utah Climate Center since 2010 in a project to monitor conditions at the sinks. Here it is my aim to explore the data we have received since 2010 as well as the prior records from broken periods of observation dating back to the 1980s.All-time record lows at Peter Sinks (since 1985), temperatures recorded at "Peter Sink" (north sink) unless otherwise noted:Jan: -66 on 1/31/1985Feb: -69 on 2/1/1985Mar: -52 in 2002 (early month) at Middle SinkApr: -41 on 4/1/2008 at Middle SinkMay: -19 in 1983Jun: 3 in 2001Jul: 15 in 1984Aug: 7 in 2005Sep: -10 in 2000 (late Sept 2000 cold wave)Oct: -32 in 2002 (probably Oct 31st)Nov: -47 in 2003 at Middle SinkDec: -57 on 12/23/1990Coldest lows since Campbell Scientific instrumentation installed in 2010. Note that none of the records from pre-Campbell era have been broken yet (edit: New record low for July was set in 2015), however the period of record is only 2010-2016 thus far.Jan: -46 on 1/13/2013 and 1/14/2013Feb: -46 on 2/22/2010Mar: -40 on 3/25/2013Apr: -26 on 4/7/2010May: -13 on 5/7/2010Jun: 10 on 6/17/2011Jul: 13 on 7/29/2015Aug: 14 on 8/4/2016Sep: 9 on 9/12/2012Oct: -21 on 10/28/2010Nov: -44 on 11/16/2014Dec: -51 on 12/31/2014Monthly mean High/Low temperatures based on Jan 2010-Feb 2015 dataJan: 28.7 | -4.1Feb: 29.1 | -6.2Mar: 37.5 | 3.3Apr: 41.9 | 9.9May: 50.5 | 21.7Jun: 62.6 | 28.4Jul: 73.8 | 35.9Aug: 71.7 | 34.8Sep: 63.9 | 26.9Oct: 49.5 | 19.7Nov: 34.4 | 5.8Dec: 27.0 | -3.9Annual: 47.6 | 14.4Let's also look at some other interesting stats, first the WARMEST low temperature recorded each month (2010-Feb 2015) at Peter Sinks:Jan: 28Feb: 34Mar: 35Apr: 35May: 40Jun: 44Jul: 55Aug: 51Sep: 50Oct: 37Nov: 34Dec: 31There have been relatively few occurrences of lows at or above 50 degrees:55 on Jul 16, 201352 on Jul 10, 201451 on Aug 23, 201351 on Jul 19, 201150 on Aug 4, 201450 on Jul 29, 201450 on Sep 11, 201350 on Aug 26, 201350 on Jul 31, 201150 on Jul 28, 2010Warmest high temperatures each month (2010-Feb 2015):Jan: 49Feb: 46Mar: 54Apr: 66May: 70Jun: 83Jul: 83Aug: 82Sep: 77Oct: 75Nov: 62Dec: 45Like many high elevation locations the temperature at Peter Sinks in wintertime is modulated by subsidence inversions with the warmest temperatures in winter months experienced during periods of strong upper level ridging. Overnight lows however are modulated by wind...to achieve decoupling the wind must go calm at the sink floor, any wind (even 5 mph) will result in too much mixing and keep temperatures from falling much lower than on the rim. The temperature profile can easily decouple during periods of upper level ridging however, which results in some staggering diurnal temperature ranges, the largest of which was 74 degrees on Feb 22, 2010 (high of 28, low of -46).I will continue this thread by adding brief monthly summaries for Peter Sinks (mean high/low, warmest high/low and other interesting statistics as they happen). 1 Quote The Pacific Northwest: Where storms go to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbrChris Posted March 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 For some photos and a basic description of what allows the area to get so cold, see http://wasatchweatherweenies.blogspot.com/2011/09/basin-cold-pools-of-peter-sinks.html Quote The Pacific Northwest: Where storms go to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbrChris Posted March 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Let's compare locations with mean minimum temperatures below zero in January for stations in the western US and see which are as cold or colder than Peter Sinks. I seem to recall a few in Colorado that are slightly colder on average (although absolute minima are likely warmer than Peter Sinks at those locations). I'll use 1981-2010 normals where available and POR normals for areas with less than 30 years of data. Italics indicate value estimated using 1981-2010 PRISM dataset, not official NCDC values. -11.0 Embarrass, MN (for comparison), coldest in lower 48.-10.3 Creede WTP, CO-7.6 Crested Butte, CO-7.5 Taylor Park, CO-7.1 Darwin Ranch, WY-7.0 Boulder Rearing Stn, WY-6.9 Gunnison 3SW, CO-5.6 Antero Rsvr, CO-5.2 Rio Grande Rsvr, CO-5.2 Mt Rainier Summit, WA-4.5 Daniel Fish Hatchery, WY-4.3 Silverton, CO-4.1 Peter Sinks, UT-4.0 Big Piney, WY-3.7 Pikes Peak Summit, CO-3.5 Hermit 7ESE, CO-3.1 Bondurant, WY-2.7 Alamosa 2S, CO-2.7 Cochetopa Creek, CO-2.5 Westby, MT-2.5 La Barge, WY-2.3 Copper Basin, ID (RAWS 1986-2010)-2.2 Waverly 1W, CO-1.9 Medicine Lake 3SE, MT-1.8 Fraser, CO-1.7 Stanley, ID-1.7 Alamosa Bergman Fld, CO-1.7 Lake George 8SW, CO-1.7 Monte Vista 2W, CO-1.7 Sage 4NNW, WY-1.5 Opheim 12SSE, MT-1.5 Shirley Basin, WY-1.3 Kremmling, CO-1.3 Harbison Meadow, CO-1.1 Blue Mesa Lake, CO-1.1 Williams Fork Dam, CO-1.0 Grand Teton Summit, WY-0.7 Scobey 4NW, MT-0.4 Snake River, WY-0.3 Wolf Point Intl Ap, MT Quote The Pacific Northwest: Where storms go to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbrChris Posted March 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Ice fog in the bottom of Middle Sink on Jan 4, 2009 at 8 am. The temperature was -53F. Quote The Pacific Northwest: Where storms go to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbrChris Posted March 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Just found this chart which breaks down the absolute minimums recorded at Peter Sinks with records for the lower 48...Peter Sinks has beaten several and challenges several others. Quote The Pacific Northwest: Where storms go to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 Very interesting Chris. I am a mountain weather buff (I spend most of my free times in the mountains) and have long been interested in Peters Sink. There are other cold air basins (Peters Sink in unique since it has no outlet) in the Rocky Mountains that can be found either by intention or accident. I've stumbled upon many and have recorded some really cold (especially in summer temperatures) in them. For example, I have recorded a 10F in August in Quinnabaugh Meadows in the Beartooth Mountains of Montana and a 15F at Amethyst Lake in July in the Uinta Mountains of Utah, which matches the 15F record at Peters Sink. For the event at Quinnabaugh Meadows, it actually froze my 2 liter waterbottle close to solid. Sometimes in winter you can walk through these cold air sinks and valleys and notice the changes in temperatures and see the trees much more frosted with ice fog, though I've never recorded any temperatures in winter close to the ones in Peters Sink. Anyway, I would be really interested in hearing where you got the 1981-2010 PRISM dataset data for Mount Rainier, Pikes Peak, and Grand Teton. I am also interested in mountain top temperatures and have created the following webpage: http://www.summitpost.org/interesting-weather-statistics-for-us-mountain-summits/171585I would like to get some more complete information for Rainier and Pikes Peak as well as any data for the Grand Teton or any other mountain summits. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbrChris Posted April 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 Scott you can get the PRISM values here: http://prismmap.nacse.org/nn/ Just enter coordinates in decimal format and select either time series (enter start and end years) or normals. The resolution is 2.5 minutes of Lat/Lon. For time series the elevation of the grid point is noted. While this isn't as good as having an actual station it provides a decent estimate for remote areas. Quote The Pacific Northwest: Where storms go to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 Thanks Chris! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Hole Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 Maybe I can get my department to do a study on it. 1 Quote Winter 23-24: Total Snow (3.2") Total Ice (0.2") Coldest Low: 1F Coldest High: 5F Snow Events: 0.1" Jan 5th, 0.2" Jan 9th, 1.6" Jan 14, 0.2" (ice) Jan 22, 1.3" Feb 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbrChris Posted August 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 This is one of the more popular "found by Google" pages on the forums. It would be nice to trek out there and set up some cheap temp sensors and record the inversion from the rim to the basin. Already being monitored: http://twdef.usu.edu/Peter_Sinks/Sinks.html Quote The Pacific Northwest: Where storms go to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbrChris Posted September 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2016 Peter Sinks Climate Data - 2016 (so far)Monthly average high/low...extreme high/extreme low for 2016....................Jan....Feb.....Mar....Apr....May....Jun....Jul.....AugAvg High......24.6...32.1...34.1...42.6...50.0...70.0...74.9...74.4Avg Low.......-7.5...-1.6....5.7.....14.6....21.6...30.4...30.4...25.7Max High......36.....45......46......56......62.....81.....83......79Min Low.......-41....-28.....-29.....-9.......6......17......17......14Coldest low: -41 on Jan 1st.Warmest low: 46 on Jul 31st Nights above freezing (32):Jan: 0 (warmest 20)Feb: 0 (warmest 29)Mar: 0 (warmest 22)Apr: 0 (warmest 30)May: 2 (warmest 33)Jun: 9 (warmest 44)Jul: 11 (warmest 46)Aug: 4 (warmest 37)Total: 26 (through Aug)Nights below zero:Jan: 20Feb: 14Mar: 10Apr: 3May: 0Jun: 0Jul: 0Aug: 0Total: 47Noteworthy records:* 2016 so far has fewest number of above-freezing lows of any year on record (2010-present)* Coldest low recorded in Aug since 2010: 14 on Aug 4, 2016 (previous record 18) Quote The Pacific Northwest: Where storms go to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbrChris Posted September 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2016 Let's compare locations with mean minimum temperatures below zero in January for stations in the western US and see which are as cold or colder than Peter Sinks. I seem to recall a few in Colorado that are slightly colder on average (although absolute minima are likely warmer than Peter Sinks at those locations). I'll use 1981-2010 normals where available and POR normals for areas with less than 30 years of data. Italics indicate value estimated using 1981-2010 PRISM dataset, not official NCDC values. -11.0 Embarrass, MN (for comparison), coldest in lower 48.-10.3 Creede WTP, CO-7.6 Crested Butte, CO-7.5 Taylor Park, CO-7.1 Darwin Ranch, WY-7.0 Boulder Rearing Stn, WY-6.9 Gunnison 3SW, CO-5.6 Antero Rsvr, CO-5.2 Rio Grande Rsvr, CO-5.2 Mt Rainier Summit, WA-4.7 Peter Sinks, UT (2010-2016 data)-4.5 Daniel Fish Hatchery, WY-4.3 Silverton, CO-4.0 Big Piney, WY-3.7 Pikes Peak Summit, CO-3.5 Hermit 7ESE, CO-3.1 Bondurant, WY-2.7 Alamosa 2S, CO-2.7 Cochetopa Creek, CO-2.5 Westby, MT-2.5 La Barge, WY-2.3 Copper Basin, ID (RAWS 1986-2010)-2.2 Waverly 1W, CO-1.9 Medicine Lake 3SE, MT-1.8 Fraser, CO-1.7 Stanley, ID-1.7 Alamosa Bergman Fld, CO-1.7 Lake George 8SW, CO-1.7 Monte Vista 2W, CO-1.7 Sage 4NNW, WY-1.5 Opheim 12SSE, MT-1.5 Shirley Basin, WY-1.3 Kremmling, CO-1.3 Harbison Meadow, CO-1.1 Blue Mesa Lake, CO-1.1 Williams Fork Dam, CO-1.0 Grand Teton Summit, WY-0.7 Scobey 4NW, MT-0.4 Snake River, WY-0.3 Wolf Point Intl Ap, MTUpdated Peter Sinks mean January low (2010-2016 data) Quote The Pacific Northwest: Where storms go to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 6.8F this morning at Peters Sink:https://climate.usurf.usu.edu/PeterSinks/index.php Chilly for early September. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 Updated Peter Sinks mean January low (2010-2016 data) Interesting, but if you compare the data for the same years for those other stations (2010-2016) Embarrass has dropped way down the list. The past few years 2010-2016 have had some warm winters (if it weren't for 2014, Embarrass would just barely beat Peters Sink). Using the NOW Data from NOAA for 2010-2016 for those stations (the same years chosen for Peters Sink), here are some differences (with the example of Embarrass shown): http://www.summitpost.org/images/medium/982247.JPG The order changes somewhat when just 2010-2016 is looked at and Peter Sinks moves up the list: Taylor Park = -9.4Crested Butte = -8.2Gunnison = -7.9Embarrass, MN = -7.8Peter Sinks = -4.7Antero Reservoir = -4.5Boulder Rearing Station = -4.2 In addition to Minnesota, the Wyoming stations for 2010-2016 haven't been nearly as cold as the 1981-2010 averages. Big Piney for example, has only averaged -0.5, much warmer than the 1981-2010 average of -4.0. http://www.summitpost.org/images/medium/982253.JPG Had their been a 1981-2010 average for Peter Sinks, it is possible that it also could have been colder than the 2010-2016 average. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 The problem is, 2010-2016 is merely 7 years. That's not nearly long enough for averaging purposes. A few historically warm winters in there, too, for Embarass, MN (2012 and 2016 were both in the top-4 warmest on record). Quote Live Weather Cam: https://www.youtube.com/live/KxlIo8-KVpc?si=xKLCFYWbZieAfyh6 PWS Wunderground https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KMDBETHE62 PWS CWOP/NOAA: https://www.weather.gov/wrh/timeseries?site=F3819&hours=72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow_wizard Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 It would certainly appear they are in the same boat as the NW for lack of record cold this century. Nice to see a station in WA makes the list for coldest mean minimum in the US. I've always figured Rainier kicks Mt Washington's arse. I wasn't aware they had an official sensor at the top. Quote Death To Warm Anomalies! Winter 2023-24 stats Total Snowfall = 1.0" Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1 Total Hail = 0.0 Total Ice = 0.2 Coldest Low = 13 Lows 32 or below = 45 Highs 32 or below = 3 Lows 20 or below = 3 Highs 40 or below = 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow_wizard Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 6.8F this morning at Peters Sink: https://climate.usurf.usu.edu/PeterSinks/index.php Chilly for early September. Let's hope that is the trend this season! Quote Death To Warm Anomalies! Winter 2023-24 stats Total Snowfall = 1.0" Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1 Total Hail = 0.0 Total Ice = 0.2 Coldest Low = 13 Lows 32 or below = 45 Highs 32 or below = 3 Lows 20 or below = 3 Highs 40 or below = 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 I've always figured Rainier kicks Mt Washington's arse. I wasn't aware they had an official sensor at the top.This is a misconception that a lot of westerners cling to, for whatever reason. Mount Rainier averages much more snowfall than Mount Washington, however, the summit of Mount Washington is both verifiably colder and windier than the summit of Mount Rainier. It's not even close, actually. Quote Live Weather Cam: https://www.youtube.com/live/KxlIo8-KVpc?si=xKLCFYWbZieAfyh6 PWS Wunderground https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KMDBETHE62 PWS CWOP/NOAA: https://www.weather.gov/wrh/timeseries?site=F3819&hours=72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 This is a misconception that a lot of westerners cling to, for whatever reason. Mount Rainier averages much more snowfall than Mount Washington, however, the summit of Mount Washington is both verifiably colder and windier than the summit of Mount Rainier. It's not even close, actually. I don't know about the windy part, but the summit of Mt. Rainier is definitely colder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 I don't know about the windy part, but the summit of Mt. Rainier is definitely colder.Uh, no it's not. Edit: I'm referring to winter temperatures, not annual temperatures. Just to clear that up. Quote Live Weather Cam: https://www.youtube.com/live/KxlIo8-KVpc?si=xKLCFYWbZieAfyh6 PWS Wunderground https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KMDBETHE62 PWS CWOP/NOAA: https://www.weather.gov/wrh/timeseries?site=F3819&hours=72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLI snowman Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 Uh, no it's not. Edit: I'm referring to winter temperatures, not annual temperatures. Just to clear that up. http://www.summitpost.org/interesting-weather-statistics-for-us-mountain-summits/171585#chapter_5 I'm not sure when exactly they compiled this data for Mt. Rainier, but it indicates that its summit is likely colder in DJF by a reasonably significant margin. Which should come as no surprise, 14,411' is pretty D**n high up. "Not even close" might apply, just not how you seem to think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 Right now, sustained winds on Mt. Washington are 83mph gusting to 92mph. That's basically a typical day there. Some general info: http://climbing.about.com/od/usstatehighpoints/a/MtWashingtonFacts.htm Quote Live Weather Cam: https://www.youtube.com/live/KxlIo8-KVpc?si=xKLCFYWbZieAfyh6 PWS Wunderground https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KMDBETHE62 PWS CWOP/NOAA: https://www.weather.gov/wrh/timeseries?site=F3819&hours=72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 Uh, no it's not. Edit: I'm referring to winter temperatures, not annual temperatures. Just to clear that up. Mount Rainier is colder both during the winter and on an annual basis. And why wouldn't it? You're comparing 14,000 feet to 6,000 feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 http://www.summitpost.org/interesting-weather-statistics-for-us-mountain-summits/171585#chapter_5 I'm not sure when exactly they compiled this data for Mt. Rainier, but it indicates that its summit is likely colder in DJF by a reasonably significant margin. Which should come as no surprise, 14,411' is pretty D**n high up. "Not even close" might apply, just not how you seem to think.LOL.."period of record, unknown; 1970s". So, no data on when (or where) these conditions were measured? Quote Live Weather Cam: https://www.youtube.com/live/KxlIo8-KVpc?si=xKLCFYWbZieAfyh6 PWS Wunderground https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KMDBETHE62 PWS CWOP/NOAA: https://www.weather.gov/wrh/timeseries?site=F3819&hours=72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLI snowman Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 LOL.."period of record, unknown; 1970s". So, no data on when (or where) these conditions were measured? And what data are you basing your "Mt. Washington is verifiably colder" statement on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 Mount Rainier is colder both during the winter and on an annual basis. And why wouldn't it? You're comparing 14,000 feet to 6,000 feet.LOL, do you honestly think 700-800mb temperatures are uniform between these two locations? Newsflash, upper level temperatures and antecedent humidity levels are verifiably higher @ Mt. Rainier's altitude and location versus Mt. Washington's during the winter. Hence more latent heat release during condensation/orographic lifting, etc. Quote Live Weather Cam: https://www.youtube.com/live/KxlIo8-KVpc?si=xKLCFYWbZieAfyh6 PWS Wunderground https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KMDBETHE62 PWS CWOP/NOAA: https://www.weather.gov/wrh/timeseries?site=F3819&hours=72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 And what data are you basing your "Mt. Washington is verifiably colder" statement on?Absolute temperatures @ the altitude of each mountain's summit. http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/psd/cgi-bin/data/composites/printpage.pl Quote Live Weather Cam: https://www.youtube.com/live/KxlIo8-KVpc?si=xKLCFYWbZieAfyh6 PWS Wunderground https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KMDBETHE62 PWS CWOP/NOAA: https://www.weather.gov/wrh/timeseries?site=F3819&hours=72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 LOL, do you honestly think 700-800mb temperatures are uniform between these two locations? Newsflash, upper level temperatures and antecedent humidity levels are verifiably higher @ Mt. Rainier's altitude and location versus Mt. Washington's during the winter. Hence more latent heat release during condensation/orographic lifting, etc. Not only are you wrong, but you're being a d*ck about it. Come on dude. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 https://www.mountwashington.org/experience-the-weather/current-summit-conditions.aspx Mount Washington has colder temperatures, higher winds, and lower wind chill values than the summit of Mount Rainier, which is 8,000 feet higher. Quote Live Weather Cam: https://www.youtube.com/live/KxlIo8-KVpc?si=xKLCFYWbZieAfyh6 PWS Wunderground https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KMDBETHE62 PWS CWOP/NOAA: https://www.weather.gov/wrh/timeseries?site=F3819&hours=72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLI snowman Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 Absolute temperatures @ the altitude of each mountain's summit. http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/psd/cgi-bin/data/composites/printpage.pl Wow, seems legit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 Wow, seems legit.Science aims for legitimacy. Pacific airmasses keep Mt. Rainier warmer during the winter season relative to Mt. Washington, even with the elevation differential. Quote Live Weather Cam: https://www.youtube.com/live/KxlIo8-KVpc?si=xKLCFYWbZieAfyh6 PWS Wunderground https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KMDBETHE62 PWS CWOP/NOAA: https://www.weather.gov/wrh/timeseries?site=F3819&hours=72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 Not only are you wrong, but you're being a d*ck about it. Come on dude.I'm being a d**k because you're intentionally ignoring quantitatively derivable data in favor of some fairytale. Quote Live Weather Cam: https://www.youtube.com/live/KxlIo8-KVpc?si=xKLCFYWbZieAfyh6 PWS Wunderground https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KMDBETHE62 PWS CWOP/NOAA: https://www.weather.gov/wrh/timeseries?site=F3819&hours=72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 I'm being a d**k because you're intentionally ignoring quantitatively derivable data in favor of some fairytale. "however, the summit of Mount Washington is both verifiably colder and windier than the summit of Mount Rainier. It's not even close, actually." You were wrong with that statement, even without the hyperbole you added at the end. Then you tried to backtrack and say you were talking about winter temps. Even if we're talking about winter temps, Mount Washington would not be so much colder than Mt. Rainier to the extent that "its not even close, actually." You're wrong. And you're being a d*ck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLI snowman Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 Science aims for legitimacy. Pacific airmasses keep Mt. Rainier warmer during the winter season relative to Mt. Washington, even with the elevation differential. You may want to take that up with the National Park Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 "however, the summit of Mount Washington is both verifiably colder and windier than the summit of Mount Rainier. It's not even close, actually." You were wrong with that statement, even without the hyperbole you added at the end. Then you tried to backtrack and say you were talking about winter temps. Even if we're talking about winter temps, Mount Washington would not be so much colder than Mt. Rainier to the extent that "its not even close, actually." You're wrong. And you're being a d*ck.I didn't backtrack on anything. I clarified my statement, since we were discussing cold season low temperatures. Nice try. Hyperbole aside, everything I said is accurate. Quote Live Weather Cam: https://www.youtube.com/live/KxlIo8-KVpc?si=xKLCFYWbZieAfyh6 PWS Wunderground https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KMDBETHE62 PWS CWOP/NOAA: https://www.weather.gov/wrh/timeseries?site=F3819&hours=72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 You may want to take that up with the National Park Service.I can't find any history on this station's existence, let alone its location and period of record. Quote Live Weather Cam: https://www.youtube.com/live/KxlIo8-KVpc?si=xKLCFYWbZieAfyh6 PWS Wunderground https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KMDBETHE62 PWS CWOP/NOAA: https://www.weather.gov/wrh/timeseries?site=F3819&hours=72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 I didn't backtrack on anything. I clarified my statement, since we were discussing cold season low temperatures. Nice try. Hyperbole aside, everything I said is accurate. You're all over the place. -5.2F average January low on Mt. Rainier summit according to 1981-2010 PRISM data.-2.7F average January low on Mt. Washington summit according to 1981-2010 data @ WRCC. What was your point again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 You're all over the place. -5.2F average January low on Mt. Rainier summit according to 1981-2010 PRISM data.-2.7F average January low on Mt. Washington summit according to 1981-2010 data @ WRCC. What was your point again?Can you link me to this? Sounds a lot like an interpolative algorithm considering there are no stations on the summit of Mt. Rainier. Quote Live Weather Cam: https://www.youtube.com/live/KxlIo8-KVpc?si=xKLCFYWbZieAfyh6 PWS Wunderground https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KMDBETHE62 PWS CWOP/NOAA: https://www.weather.gov/wrh/timeseries?site=F3819&hours=72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 Doesn't jive with the 30yr averages compiled @ the Mt. Washington observatory either. https://www.mountwashington.org/experience-the-weather/mount-washington-weather-archives/normals-means-and-extremes.aspx Quote Live Weather Cam: https://www.youtube.com/live/KxlIo8-KVpc?si=xKLCFYWbZieAfyh6 PWS Wunderground https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KMDBETHE62 PWS CWOP/NOAA: https://www.weather.gov/wrh/timeseries?site=F3819&hours=72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 Can you link me to this? Sounds a lot like an interpolative algorithm considering there are no stations on the summit of Mt. Rainier. IbrChris provided the data for Rainier earlier in this thread. http://www.prism.oregonstate.edu/explorer/ You can play around with that site if you'd like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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