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Russia-Ukraine Conflict


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6 hours ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

We should be moving our manufacturing back home and to Latin America, part of our plan to decrease our dependence on China. Also a more neutral stance towards Russia, as I said a pre-Bolshevik Revolution type of relationship would also work at preventing them from becoming essentially a colony of China in the next Century. Obviously we will want to maintain our Pacific Rim partnerships, but letting Europe handle their own affairs would be great. They are big boyz. 

And the whole Russian shill accusation is ridiculous, I could say you are a globalist neocon shill who likes to toss Chuck Schumer's salad, and it would be just as meaningless. 

Do you approve of how we handled WW2?

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25 minutes ago, Front Ranger said:

Do you approve of how we handled WW2?

I think that is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison in a lot of respects. The main trigger for our entry into the war was the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Due to the Axis alliances that made war with Germany (And of course Italy), inevitable. Overall it worked out alright for us, kind of a broad question, WWII was pretty much hell on earth, we did what we had to do I suppose. 

Snowfall                                  Precip

2021-22: 52.6"                    2021-22: 82.13" 

2020-21: 12.0"                    2020-21: 71.59"

2019-20: 23.5"                   2019-20: 58.54"

2018-19: 63.5"                   2018-19: 66.33"

2017-18: 30.3"                   2017-18: 59.83"

2016-17: 49.2"                   2016-17: 97.58"

2015-16: 11.75"                 2015-16: 68.67"

2014-15: 3.5"
2013-14: 11.75"                  2013-14: 62.30
2012-13: 16.75"                 2012-13: 78.45  

2011-12: 98.5"                   2011-12: 92.67"

It's always sunny at Winters Hill! 

 

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52 minutes ago, chrisahasasmallpp said:

You don't disagree that Russia has no interest in Ukraine ie. Eastern Europe?

FFS stop reading pro-russian media.  They're trying to.overthrow a democratically elected government and you're sending us articles about how the president who is literally risking his life staying in kyiv actually sucks.

GTFO with this garbage.

You do realize he is just trolling you, don’t you? Andrew has been on a big kick lately.

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34 minutes ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

I think that is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison in a lot of respects. The main trigger for our entry into the war was the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Due to the Axis alliances that made war with Germany (And of course Italy), inevitable. Overall it worked out alright for us, kind of a broad question, WWII was pretty much hell on earth, we did what we had to do I suppose. 

I wasn't making a direct comparison to current situation. Just curious since you were talking about going back to a period even earlier than that nationalistically. 

From what I've read, most historians are pretty sure the U.S. would have entered the war in Europe eventually even if Pearl Harbor never happened.

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I heard today that Ukraine soldiers had killed over twice as many Russian soldiers/ 7000 and 4 generals.  Certainly not the Russian terror of old.
And Putin wants to restore his territory to Glorious Mother Russia?  I think Mother is a bit long in the tooth for this war.   

Before You Diagnose Yourself With Depression or Low Self-Esteem,...First Make Sure You Are Not In Fact, Just Surrounded By A$$holes.

 

2018 Rainfall - 62.65" High Temp. - 110.03* Low Temp. - 8.4*

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Seems like things are escalating…How’s everyone doing with their prepping for cyber attacks and other even worse attacks? 

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3 hours ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

Zelensky's unwillingness to deal unfortunately is causing the wholesale destruction of his nation, it's almost as if he's on a suicide mission. He is acting as if he has leverage he doesn't really have. The Ukrainian resistance has been inspiring, and he is winning the PR battle, but his country is being reduced to rubble, and in the end he's going to have to make meaningful concessions. Why not make them now and save lives. Acknowledge that Crimea is Russia, and give up the breakaway regions of Eastern Ukraine. Very simple, but he won't do it, which is why he is doing his best to start WWIII

First of all, you don't know that acknowledging crimea and the "break away" regions would end the war. You're doing a gross oversimplification/misrepresentation of what's actually happening.

Secondly, you of all people talking about how requiring to wear masks is like "not living at all" would so easily roll over to an aggressor who would certainly take many of your *actual* freedoms away is frankly pathetic. 

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2 hours ago, Front Ranger said:

I wasn't making a direct comparison to current situation. Just curious since you were talking about going back to a period even earlier than that nationalistically. 

From what I've read, most historians are pretty sure the U.S. would have entered the war in Europe eventually even if Pearl Harbor never happened.

I think without Pearl Harbor, getting involved with boots on the ground in Europe would have been a hard sell. Eventually it would have probably happened. Many people believe the attack on Pearl Harbor was allowed to happen in order to solidify public support for a war effort.  

Snowfall                                  Precip

2021-22: 52.6"                    2021-22: 82.13" 

2020-21: 12.0"                    2020-21: 71.59"

2019-20: 23.5"                   2019-20: 58.54"

2018-19: 63.5"                   2018-19: 66.33"

2017-18: 30.3"                   2017-18: 59.83"

2016-17: 49.2"                   2016-17: 97.58"

2015-16: 11.75"                 2015-16: 68.67"

2014-15: 3.5"
2013-14: 11.75"                  2013-14: 62.30
2012-13: 16.75"                 2012-13: 78.45  

2011-12: 98.5"                   2011-12: 92.67"

It's always sunny at Winters Hill! 

 

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1 hour ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

I think without Pearl Harbor, getting involved with boots on the ground in Europe would have been a hard sell. Eventually it would have probably happened. Many people believe the attack on Pearl Harbor was allowed to happen in order to solidify public support for a war effort.  

One of my grandfathers believed this pretty wholeheartedly.  

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1 hour ago, MossMan said:

Seems like things are escalating…How’s everyone doing with their prepping for cyber attacks and other even worse attacks? 

I enrolled myself in a Diversity/Equity/Inclusion class. Not sure how it will help but it makes me feel better about the fact I’ll be my best me when I get vaporized.

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9 hours ago, Deweydog said:

I enrolled myself in a Diversity/Equity/Inclusion class. Not sure how it will help but it makes me feel better about the fact I’ll be my best me when I get vaporized.

Diversity: Acceptance of all ideas, viewpoints, or cultures (except for those that are not leftist)

Equity: Forced equality of outcome (this would eventually end all requirements such as standardized testing, job interviews, etc. since it's unfair to minorities)

Inclusion: Including people of all races, religions and backgrounds (except for those that are not vaccinated against COVID)

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2 hours ago, Deweydog said:

I enrolled myself in a Diversity/Equity/Inclusion class. Not sure how it will help but it makes me feel better about the fact I’ll be my best me when I get vaporized.

My wife and I are currently watching Murder She Wrote…

Yeah the end is near. 

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Here's a thought: why is Ukraine pushing for NATO inclusion such a bad thing?  They gave up their nukes after the fall of the Soviet Union on the condition of their unconditional sovereignty.  Look what that got them.  You think Putin would be so brazen if he had nukes pointed right back at Moscow?

If anything, this war has underscored the idea of peace by nuclear deterrence.

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Ever checked Putin out on Twitter?   
it’s just one long list of who he spoke to today! 🤡

Before You Diagnose Yourself With Depression or Low Self-Esteem,...First Make Sure You Are Not In Fact, Just Surrounded By A$$holes.

 

2018 Rainfall - 62.65" High Temp. - 110.03* Low Temp. - 8.4*

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8 hours ago, Deweydog said:

One of my grandfathers believed this pretty wholeheartedly.  

My parents did.  My father was Army Air Corps/later Air Force.  Spent 3 1/2 yrs in a C47 (now a DC 10) being shot at by German anti-aircraft guns.  
“good times” 👀

Before You Diagnose Yourself With Depression or Low Self-Esteem,...First Make Sure You Are Not In Fact, Just Surrounded By A$$holes.

 

2018 Rainfall - 62.65" High Temp. - 110.03* Low Temp. - 8.4*

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7 hours ago, Mr Marine Layer said:

Diversity: Acceptance of all ideas, viewpoints, or cultures (except for those that are not leftist)

Equity: Forced equality of outcome (this would eventually end all requirements such as standardized testing, job interviews, etc. since it's unfair to minorities)

Inclusion: Including people of all races, religions and backgrounds (except for those that are not vaccinated against COVID)

I wish there was a cry baby emoji.

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US has tilted the odds in Ukraines favor….Green Beret training. 
 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/us-armys-green-berets-have-lasting-impact-on-fight-in-ukraine

Before You Diagnose Yourself With Depression or Low Self-Esteem,...First Make Sure You Are Not In Fact, Just Surrounded By A$$holes.

 

2018 Rainfall - 62.65" High Temp. - 110.03* Low Temp. - 8.4*

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14 hours ago, chrisahasasmallpp said:

First of all, you don't know that acknowledging crimea and the "break away" regions would end the war. You're doing a gross oversimplification/misrepresentation of what's actually happening.

Secondly, you of all people talking about how requiring to wear masks is like "not living at all" would so easily roll over to an aggressor who would certainly take many of your *actual* freedoms away is frankly pathetic. 

Einstein is that you? Kind of misrepresenting my views, but OK.

Snowfall                                  Precip

2021-22: 52.6"                    2021-22: 82.13" 

2020-21: 12.0"                    2020-21: 71.59"

2019-20: 23.5"                   2019-20: 58.54"

2018-19: 63.5"                   2018-19: 66.33"

2017-18: 30.3"                   2017-18: 59.83"

2016-17: 49.2"                   2016-17: 97.58"

2015-16: 11.75"                 2015-16: 68.67"

2014-15: 3.5"
2013-14: 11.75"                  2013-14: 62.30
2012-13: 16.75"                 2012-13: 78.45  

2011-12: 98.5"                   2011-12: 92.67"

It's always sunny at Winters Hill! 

 

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35 minutes ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

Einstein is that you? Kind of misrepresenting my views, but OK.

Of course it's me.

And I'd love to quote you from the other previous Covid threads, but I can't.  I just remember you saying stupid about how life isn't worth living if you don't have your freedoms, in the context of business lockdowns and mask mandates.

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3 hours ago, Mr Marine Layer said:

FYI

But I know that video is a bit too lengthy, so here are some shorter videos

Diversity

Equity

Inclusion

 

I am definitely not going to watch whatever YouTube videos you specifically send us.

My commentary was just about how your 3 definitions were riddled with classic trumpism victimhoods with no basis in reality. 

Anyway...back to Russia.

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4 minutes ago, chrisahasasmallpp said:

Of course it's me.

And I'd love to quote you from the other previous Covid threads, but I can't.  I just remember you saying stupid about how life isn't worth living if you don't have your freedoms, in the context of business lockdowns and mask mandates.

Awesome, your feedback makes much more sense now in this context. Yeah, some of the mandates were definitely overkill, especially once we learned what we were dealing with. But equating Ukrainian "freedom and democracy" with that of the US, and that contrasting that with Russian "oppression" is a bit of a misnomer. The standard of living is higher in Russia, per capita income is twice as high, and if you look at the Human Freedom Index, they both score pretty similarly. 

Snowfall                                  Precip

2021-22: 52.6"                    2021-22: 82.13" 

2020-21: 12.0"                    2020-21: 71.59"

2019-20: 23.5"                   2019-20: 58.54"

2018-19: 63.5"                   2018-19: 66.33"

2017-18: 30.3"                   2017-18: 59.83"

2016-17: 49.2"                   2016-17: 97.58"

2015-16: 11.75"                 2015-16: 68.67"

2014-15: 3.5"
2013-14: 11.75"                  2013-14: 62.30
2012-13: 16.75"                 2012-13: 78.45  

2011-12: 98.5"                   2011-12: 92.67"

It's always sunny at Winters Hill! 

 

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15 hours ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

I think without Pearl Harbor, getting involved with boots on the ground in Europe would have been a hard sell. Eventually it would have probably happened. Many people believe the attack on Pearl Harbor was allowed to happen in order to solidify public support for a war effort.  

Technically the Germans declared war on us first anyways.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_declaration_of_war_against_the_United_States

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8 minutes ago, BLI snowman said:

Technically the Germans declared war on us first anyways.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_declaration_of_war_against_the_United_States

Yeah, I always was under the impression it was due to our war declaration on Japan. 

My wife is a pretty big WWII history buff and she believes pretty strongly that the US had to have known Japan was planning an attack, though they may not have known the target. 

Snowfall                                  Precip

2021-22: 52.6"                    2021-22: 82.13" 

2020-21: 12.0"                    2020-21: 71.59"

2019-20: 23.5"                   2019-20: 58.54"

2018-19: 63.5"                   2018-19: 66.33"

2017-18: 30.3"                   2017-18: 59.83"

2016-17: 49.2"                   2016-17: 97.58"

2015-16: 11.75"                 2015-16: 68.67"

2014-15: 3.5"
2013-14: 11.75"                  2013-14: 62.30
2012-13: 16.75"                 2012-13: 78.45  

2011-12: 98.5"                   2011-12: 92.67"

It's always sunny at Winters Hill! 

 

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Out of 180 countries, Ukraine ranks 97th for freedom of the press in 2021. Russia ranks 150th. 

 

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Snowfall                                  Precip

2021-22: 52.6"                    2021-22: 82.13" 

2020-21: 12.0"                    2020-21: 71.59"

2019-20: 23.5"                   2019-20: 58.54"

2018-19: 63.5"                   2018-19: 66.33"

2017-18: 30.3"                   2017-18: 59.83"

2016-17: 49.2"                   2016-17: 97.58"

2015-16: 11.75"                 2015-16: 68.67"

2014-15: 3.5"
2013-14: 11.75"                  2013-14: 62.30
2012-13: 16.75"                 2012-13: 78.45  

2011-12: 98.5"                   2011-12: 92.67"

It's always sunny at Winters Hill! 

 

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16 minutes ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

Out of 180 countries, Ukraine ranks 97th for freedom of the press in 2021. Russia ranks 150th. 

 

We ranked 181st.

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1 hour ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

Awesome, your feedback makes much more sense now in this context. Yeah, some of the mandates were definitely overkill, especially once we learned what we were dealing with. But equating Ukrainian "freedom and democracy" with that of the US, and that contrasting that with Russian "oppression" is a bit of a misnomer. The standard of living is higher in Russia, per capita income is twice as high, and if you look at the Human Freedom Index, they both score pretty similarly. 

I think some people on both sides are trying to oversimplify this. Ukraine is not really a *good* country in many respects. They are no hero, one could say.

But that doesn't make anything about what Russia is doing ok or less reprehensible. In this particular scenario, Ukraine is in fact the lesser of two evils, and Putin deserves all the blame he's getting as the aggressor.

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44 minutes ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

Yeah, I always was under the impression it was due to our war declaration on Japan. 

My wife is a pretty big WWII history buff and she believes pretty strongly that the US had to have known Japan was planning an attack, though they may not have known the target. 

Oh, we definitely knew they were planning an attack and there was definitely intel that Pearl Harbor was a target. That much is well established.

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5 minutes ago, Front Ranger said:

Oh, we definitely knew they were planning an attack and there was definitely intel that Pearl Harbor was a target. That much is well established.

That was not the “official version” for a very long time.

My preferences can beat up your preferences’ dad.

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1 hour ago, chrisahasasmallpp said:

I am definitely not going to watch whatever YouTube videos you specifically send us.

My commentary was just about how your 3 definitions were riddled with classic trumpism victimhoods with no basis in reality. 

Anyway...back to Russia.

The 3 definitions I gave are the way the left views them.

The oppressor/victim ideology comes from the left (which does not agree with classical liberalism). It does not come from Trumpism. Basically they teach Marxism with the oppressor/victim being white/non-white instead of economic classes.

Back to Russia, the USSR was Marxist and Putin wants that back, which is why he started this war.

 

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2 hours ago, Front Ranger said:

I think some people on both sides are trying to oversimplify this. Ukraine is not really a *good* country in many respects. They are no hero, one could say.

But that doesn't make anything about what Russia is doing ok or less reprehensible. In this particular scenario, Ukraine is in fact the lesser of two evils, and Putin deserves all the blame he's getting as the aggressor.

In general I agree. 

Snowfall                                  Precip

2021-22: 52.6"                    2021-22: 82.13" 

2020-21: 12.0"                    2020-21: 71.59"

2019-20: 23.5"                   2019-20: 58.54"

2018-19: 63.5"                   2018-19: 66.33"

2017-18: 30.3"                   2017-18: 59.83"

2016-17: 49.2"                   2016-17: 97.58"

2015-16: 11.75"                 2015-16: 68.67"

2014-15: 3.5"
2013-14: 11.75"                  2013-14: 62.30
2012-13: 16.75"                 2012-13: 78.45  

2011-12: 98.5"                   2011-12: 92.67"

It's always sunny at Winters Hill! 

 

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3 hours ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

Yeah, I always was under the impression it was due to our war declaration on Japan. 

My wife is a pretty big WWII history buff and she believes pretty strongly that the US had to have known Japan was planning an attack, though they may not have known the target. 

I think it's definitely possible the U.S. was aiming to give it the old "come at me bro". FDR had been warned that Japan was at least likely to target Hawaii in the coming weeks. Whether they consciously wanted war or not is hard to say, but they were certainly pretty willing to take a lax approach in that region at that point.

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5 hours ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

Einstein is that you? Kind of misrepresenting my views, but OK.

Wow, chrisahasasmallpp is einsteinjr. That makes sense.

I cannot let any political arguments get too nasty or out of hand here, but there's always our Discord site for that, which Einstein and Omaha continuously refuse to join. I wonder why. What is it with these guys that they're too lazy or afraid to watch any videos I post or to get into a healthy debate?

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8 minutes ago, Front Ranger said:

Perhaps. But Tora, Tora, Tora came out in the 60s...a very long time ago.

Much colder planet back then. 

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22 hours ago, MossMan said:

Seems like things are escalating…How’s everyone doing with their prepping for cyber attacks and other even worse attacks? 

Oh real good. 
Renewed my library card.  

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Before You Diagnose Yourself With Depression or Low Self-Esteem,...First Make Sure You Are Not In Fact, Just Surrounded By A$$holes.

 

2018 Rainfall - 62.65" High Temp. - 110.03* Low Temp. - 8.4*

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5 hours ago, Mr Marine Layer said:

Wow, chrisahasasmallpp is einsteinjr. That makes sense.

I cannot let any political arguments get too nasty or out of hand here, but there's always our Discord site for that, which Einstein and Omaha continuously refuse to join. I wonder why. What is it with these guys that they're too lazy or afraid to watch any videos I post or to get into a healthy debate?

I have zero interest in debating with someone who likely gets most of their news from their Facebook, Twitter, and Google Feeds.   Acting like a bully on the playground is not going to change my mind.

I have 2 college friends we email fairly often together with articles, opinions etc. (one liberal and one very conservative). Been doing it since 2008ish. 

I get my fix through here and that channel. Don't need more.  And honestly, it can be unhealthy for my mental health if I dwell on things that I read on here or written by my conservative friend. I suspect discord would make things worse.

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36 minutes ago, chrisahasasmallpp said:

I have zero interest in debating with someone who likely gets most of their news from their Facebook, Twitter, and Google Feeds.   Acting like a bully on the playground is not going to change my mind.

I have 2 college friends we email fairly often together with articles, opinions etc. (one liberal and one very conservative). Been doing it since 2008ish. 

I get my fix through here and that channel. Don't need more.  And honestly, it can be unhealthy for my mental health if I dwell on things that I read on here or written by my conservative friend. I suspect discord would make things worse.

This is really sad. 

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I really thought his username was a dead giveaway 😄

I did some reading after my first post (very long time lurker), and it looks like the Ukrainians did not have the ability to actually control or maintain the nukes that were on their soil after the fall of the USSR.  They were pretty much a bargaining chip rather than a deterrent due to that.  And due to the fact that there was no language in the agreement that would have necessitated a military response from the west, Putin went in without pause and we are now back to the days of proxy wars.

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1 hour ago, chrisahasasmallpp said:

I have zero interest in debating with someone who likely gets most of their news from their Facebook, Twitter, and Google Feeds.   Acting like a bully on the playground is not going to change my mind.

I have 2 college friends we email fairly often together with articles, opinions etc. (one liberal and one very conservative). Been doing it since 2008ish. 

I get my fix through here and that channel. Don't need more.  And honestly, it can be unhealthy for my mental health if I dwell on things that I read on here or written by my conservative friend. I suspect discord would make things worse.

The videos I posted today come from the New Discourses site and they claim not to be interested in any particular political stance. I actually found it thanks to Andrew. I think it describes well what is going on in America today.

Anyway, you've seen all of my previous posts, so I don't want to argue any further, as I was already banned from the Off Topic sites for a few months for doing that.

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The Ukraine Army was trained prior to the outbreak by Green Berets and arms sent   This spontaneous war is not so spontaneous  Interesting insight. However, the Russian Army has been poorly prepared and more midline commanders have to go forward in the action  

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/03/21/russia-generals-dead-ukraine/

On Sunday, Mykhailo Podoliak, a top advisor to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, said six Russian generals had been killed, calling the invading army “fully unprepared” for the fight in Ukraine. 

 

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Before You Diagnose Yourself With Depression or Low Self-Esteem,...First Make Sure You Are Not In Fact, Just Surrounded By A$$holes.

 

2018 Rainfall - 62.65" High Temp. - 110.03* Low Temp. - 8.4*

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17 hours ago, einsteinjr said:

I have zero interest in debating with someone who likely gets most of their news from their Facebook, Twitter, and Google Feeds.   Acting like a bully on the playground is not going to change my mind.

I have 2 college friends we email fairly often together with articles, opinions etc. (one liberal and one very conservative). Been doing it since 2008ish. 

I get my fix through here and that channel. Don't need more.  And honestly, it can be unhealthy for my mental health if I dwell on things that I read on here or written by my conservative friend. I suspect discord would make things worse.

If I had to guess you are the low information voter...

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Snowfall                                  Precip

2021-22: 52.6"                    2021-22: 82.13" 

2020-21: 12.0"                    2020-21: 71.59"

2019-20: 23.5"                   2019-20: 58.54"

2018-19: 63.5"                   2018-19: 66.33"

2017-18: 30.3"                   2017-18: 59.83"

2016-17: 49.2"                   2016-17: 97.58"

2015-16: 11.75"                 2015-16: 68.67"

2014-15: 3.5"
2013-14: 11.75"                  2013-14: 62.30
2012-13: 16.75"                 2012-13: 78.45  

2011-12: 98.5"                   2011-12: 92.67"

It's always sunny at Winters Hill! 

 

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My mom fled Czechoslovakia in 1968 when the USSR invaded the country.

Today her relatives and friends in Czech Republic are worried Putin might do it all over again. They also say that lots of Ukrainian refugees are coming and demanding things from them and are not being very friendly.

Anyway, here's a fun little quiz to take. As you may guess, my result was Faith and Flag Conservative.

 

 

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  • Longtimer
5 minutes ago, Mr Marine Layer said:

My mom fled Czechoslovakia in 1968 when the USSR invaded the country.

Today her relatives and friends in Czech Republic are worried Putin might do it all over again. They also say that lots of Ukrainian refugees are coming and demanding things from them and are not being very friendly.

Anyway, here's a fun little quiz to take. As you may guess, my result was Faith and Flag Conservative.

 

 

If I have a different opinion are you going to leave the forum. Lol

Snowfall                                  Precip

2021-22: 52.6"                    2021-22: 82.13" 

2020-21: 12.0"                    2020-21: 71.59"

2019-20: 23.5"                   2019-20: 58.54"

2018-19: 63.5"                   2018-19: 66.33"

2017-18: 30.3"                   2017-18: 59.83"

2016-17: 49.2"                   2016-17: 97.58"

2015-16: 11.75"                 2015-16: 68.67"

2014-15: 3.5"
2013-14: 11.75"                  2013-14: 62.30
2012-13: 16.75"                 2012-13: 78.45  

2011-12: 98.5"                   2011-12: 92.67"

It's always sunny at Winters Hill! 

 

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