wx_statman Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 Here in Portland we have a pretty displaced climate zone, since we're technically a Warm-Summer Mediterranean climate (Koppen: Csb) despite being above the 45th parallel. However, we don't even come close to having the most latitude-displaced sea level climate zone in the world. These three locations stand out above the rest - Cold-Summer Mediterranean (Koppen: Csc) at 67N - Rost, Norway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%B8st#Climate Despite its northerly location, Røst features a rare cold-summer Mediterranean climate (Köppen Csc). Røst and Værøy are known by meteorologists as the most northern locations in the world with average temperatures above freezing all winter. The winter temperatures in southern Lofoten represent the largest temperature anomaly in the world relative to latitude. The Gulf Stream is responsible for this incredible anomaly. Despite lying above the Arctic Circle, the coldest month (February) averages just 33.5F. Since the coldest month is above freezing, Rost cannot qualify for a Subpolar Oceanic climate - which it otherwise would have given its relatively cold summers. Since the warmest month is above 10C/50F, it can't qualify for a Tundra climate. Since the driest month (June) only averages 1.10" of precip, it can't qualify for a Temperate Oceanic climate - which it would have with just a little more summer precip. It thus gets shoehorned into the only climate zone that its not disqualified from - Cold Summer Mediterranean. Subarctic (Koppen: Dfc) at 45N - Kurilsk, Kurile Islands, Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurilsk#Climate Remarkably for its relatively southerly latitude, Kurilsk has a subarctic climate (Köppen Dfc) owing to the powerful influence of the cold Oyashio Current which makes summers exceptionally cool. The southern Kurile Islands feature a unique combination of 1) a winter climate dominated by the Siberian High, 2) a very cold spring and delayed summer due to the cold Oyashio Current that flows southward from Kamchatka, and 3) the warm, humid East Asian Monsoon that drags summer well into September and creates one of the strongest seasonal lags anywhere in the world - September (56.1F) averages nearly 15F warmer than May (41.4F). With only three months averaging above 10C/50F and the coldest month below -3C/27F, Kurilsk fully qualifies for a Subarctic climate despite lying at the same latitude as Portland, OR or Bordeaux, France. Polar Tundra (Koppen: ET) at 46S - Prince Edward Islands, Southern Indian Ocean https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Edward_Islands#Climate The islands have a tundra climate. They lie directly in the path of eastward-moving depressions all year round and this gives them an unusually cool and windy climate. Strong winds blow almost every day of the year...It rains on average about 320 days a year (about 28 days a month) and the islands are among the cloudiest places in the world The out-sized influence of Antarctica and the Antarctic Circumpolar Current are responsible for this one, keeping the Prince Edward Islands in a perpetual refrigerator in spite of their relatively low latitude. Despite lying just 950 miles from South Africa, these islands feature a Tundra climate according to the Koppen classification. The warmest month (February) averages just 45.9F, well below the 10C/50F cutoff for Tundra classification - and is in fact colder than Iqaluit, Canada at 63N which peaks at 46.8F in July. Even though winters here are relatively mild and oceanic in nature, summers are too cold to support tree growth in this environment. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 Absolutely fascinating. I love this stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Jones Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 Awesome stuff here. While it doesn't compare to the cities in your post, I've always thought Redding has an amazingly displaced climate, especially in the summer. How many places in the world have an average summertime high temp as warm as Redding at 40 degrees of latitude? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted August 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 Awesome stuff here. While it doesn't compare to the cities in your post, I've always thought Redding has an amazingly displaced climate, especially in the summer. How many places in the world have an average summertime high temp as warm as Redding at 40 degrees of latitude? Redding is a good example, but they've got nothing on Turpan in western China. They're at 43N latitude and average 103/77 in July. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turpan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Jones Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 Redding is a good example, but they've got nothing on Turpan in western China. They're at 43N latitude and average 103/77 in July. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TurpanGod D**n that is one crazy climate. Phoenix type summers with winters as cold as something you'd see in South Dakota or Montana... ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted August 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 God D**n that is one crazy climate. Phoenix type summers with winters as cold as something you'd see in South Dakota or Montana... ridiculous. Yeah that place is fascinating. I'm 99% sure they're only place on Earth with that temperature profile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 God D**n that is one crazy climate. Phoenix type summers with winters as cold as something you'd see in South Dakota or Montana... ridiculous. There are also some places in Manchuria where the monsoonal wind shift from a tropical to subtropical summer climate to a Siberian infused winter climate is completely unbelievable. Harbin, China is one that has always caught my eye. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harbin#Climate 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 Yeah that place is fascinating. I'm 99% sure they're only place on Earth with that temperature profile. The drop between October and November there has got to be one of the most dramatic I've ever seen. From a 71/44 average to a 49/28 average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted August 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 There are also some places in Manchuria where the monsoonal wind shift from a tropical to subtropical summer climate to a Siberian infused winter climate is completely unbelievable. Harbin, China is one that has always caught my eye. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harbin#Climate Another interesting case is Chokurdakh, at 70'38" in Siberia. They make a recovery from an otherwise frozen polar environment (7.9F annual avg) to 61/44 in July. Note the dramatic recovery from April/May to July. I doubt this temperature profile exists anywhere else in the world at that latitude. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chokurdakh#Climate 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow_wizard Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 Fascinating stuff! I am of the belief the so called Mediterranean climate zone is too broadly drawn through. Many locations with that distinction are far warmer than Portland. I always thought the Western Lowlands of WA and OR were considered a maritime climate. You look at some months like January 1950, January 1969, and many earlier winters it seems kind of out there for Mediterranean. Quote Death To Warm Anomalies! Winter 2023-24 stats Total Snowfall = 1.0" Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1 Total Hail = 0.0 Total Ice = 0.2 Coldest Low = 13 Lows 32 or below = 45 Highs 32 or below = 3 Lows 20 or below = 3 Highs 40 or below = 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow_wizard Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 Interesting... Seattle and Portland have colder winters than London and yet London is considered an oceanic climate (a term I feel more comfortable with for our climate). I guess it comes down to the warm / dry summers. Some resources only refer to California as having a Med... climate in the US. Quote Death To Warm Anomalies! Winter 2023-24 stats Total Snowfall = 1.0" Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1 Total Hail = 0.0 Total Ice = 0.2 Coldest Low = 13 Lows 32 or below = 45 Highs 32 or below = 3 Lows 20 or below = 3 Highs 40 or below = 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted August 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 Fascinating stuff! I am of the belief the so called Mediterranean climate zone is too broadly drawn through. Many locations with that distinction are far warmer than Portland. I always thought the Western Lowlands of WA and OR were considered a maritime climate. You look at some months like January 1950, January 1969, and many earlier winters it seems kind of out there for Mediterranean. We're not maritime because our summer precip is too low. One of the benchmarks of a real Oceanic climate is consistent precipitation year round. Think the Alaskan panhandle, or the British Isles. With our mild temperature profile and pronounced dry season, we're solidly Mediterranean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted August 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 Interesting... Seattle and Portland have colder winters than London and yet London is considered an oceanic climate (a term I feel more comfortable with for our climate). I guess it comes down to the warm / dry summers. Some resources only refer to California as having a Med... climate in the US. Bingo. You only start running into an Oceanic climate once you head north of Hoquiam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 Bingo. You only start running into an Oceanic climate once you head north of Hoquiam.What about the Oregon Coast? Especially the Northern Oregon Coast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 We're not maritime because our summer precip is too low. One of the benchmarks of a real Oceanic climate is consistent precipitation year round. Think the Alaskan panhandle, or the British Isles. With our mild temperature profile and pronounced dry season, we're solidly Mediterranean.I would argue we are marginally Mediterranean. Definitely on the cool side for a Mediterranean climate compared to classic Mediterranean areas like Rome, Athens, Madrid, Sacramento, Fresno, Perth etc. I would say our precip patterns are the biggest dead ringer. But wintertime temps in Portland run 8-10 degrees colder on average than classic Mediterranean climate winters (for now). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted August 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 Another fascinating climate is Trondheim, Norway (63N). Its one of the few places on Earth where four different climate zones come together. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trondheim#Climate -Officially, the climate is Temperate Oceanic (Koppen: Cfb). This climate type dominates as you head down the coast from Trondheim.-However, with January averaging -2.0C/28.4F, its only 1C away from being Humid Continental (Koppen: Dfa). The coldest month needs to be below -3C/27F to qualify. This climate can be found just inland from Trondheim to the south and SE.-With September at 10.4C/50.7F, its only 0.5C away from being Subpolar Oceanic (Koppen: Cfc). To qualify for this climate you need a maximum of three months at 10C/50F, with the coldest month above -3C/27F but below 0C/32F. This climate can be found as you head up the coast from Trondheim.-Finally, with September at 10.4C/50.7F and January at -2.0C/28.4F, its its only 0.5C and 1.0C, respectively, from a Subarctic climate (Koppen: Dfc). You need a maximum of three months at 10C/50F, with the coldest month below -3C/27F to qualify. This climate can be found as soon as you head inland to the east and NE from Trondheim. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted August 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 What about the Oregon Coast? Especially the Northern Oregon Coast. Nope. Astoria only averages 1.03" in July. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted August 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 I would argue we are marginally Mediterranean. Definitely on the cool side for a Mediterranean climate compared to classic Mediterranean areas like Rome, Athens, Madrid, Sacramento, Fresno, Perth etc. I would say our precip patterns are the biggest dead ringer. But wintertime temps in Portland run 8-10 degrees colder on average than classic Mediterranean climate winters (for now). You're describing two different Mediterranean subtypes though. Central California and places like Rome are "hot-summer Mediterranean (Csa)." We're "warm-summer Mediterranean (Csb)." It sounds more like you have a gripe with the Koppen classification system. And believe me, you're not the only one. Plenty of people feel its outdated and doesn't properly describe some parts of the world. Another major beef is the -3C/27F cutoff for Humid Continental, which throws places like NYC into the Subtropical climate zone, etc etc. But since Koppen is still the widely accepted climate classification system, and accordingly we fall squarely into the Mediterranean climate zone...it is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted August 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 If anyone wants a clear illustration of the shortcomings of the Koppen system, look no further than Government Camp. It can see 400+ inches of snow in a year (such as 2008), but under the Koppen system its a temperate Oceanic climate, bordering on cool-summer Mediterranean. Go figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow_wizard Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 If anyone wants a clear illustration of the shortcomings of the Koppen system, look no further than Government Camp. It can see 400+ inches of snow in a year (such as 2008), but under the Koppen system its a temperate Oceanic climate, bordering on cool-summer Mediterranean. Go figure. Yeah...I've heard the complaints about Koppen being too broad in it's temperature criterion. I kind of hate the label of Med... for us. I wonder how the foothills are classified as the July normal precip gets up to 2 inches and above? Quote Death To Warm Anomalies! Winter 2023-24 stats Total Snowfall = 1.0" Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1 Total Hail = 0.0 Total Ice = 0.2 Coldest Low = 13 Lows 32 or below = 45 Highs 32 or below = 3 Lows 20 or below = 3 Highs 40 or below = 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted August 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 Yeah...I've heard the complaints about Koppen being too broad in it's temperature criterion. I kind of hate the label of Med... for us. I wonder how the foothills are classified as the July normal precip gets up to 2 inches and above? Well, if the summer precip is adequate but the coldest month is above -3C/27F, its just temperate Oceanic. Unless there's only three months above 10C/50F, then its Subpolar Oceanic. If you're high enough and the coldest month is below -3C/27F, its either Humid Continental (4 or more months above 10C/50F) or Subarctic (3 or fewer months at 10C/50F). Once you get high enough and all months average under 10C/50F, its alpine Tundra. In the WA Cascades, the typical progression on the western slopes is temperate Oceanic>Subpolar Oceanic>Tundra...not much in the way of Humid Continental or Subarctic, unless you're on the eastern slopes. Did you get all that? LOL. It comes across like such a clusterf*ck when I read it back to myself, but that's the nature of the beast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest happ Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 Great discussion. Mr Marine Layer recently commented on the difference between coastal areas above Pt Conception compared to the rest of SoCal. The cold California current/ upwelling provides abundant coastal cloudiness/ stratus and relatively mild summer temps (Csb). Flowing under the California current and in the opposite direction is the Davidson current that contributes to much warmer SST. Los Angeles is (Csa ) as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 I hate sharing a climate zone with Tampa, FL. I guess Mount Washington qualifies as a "Tundra" climate by these measures. Also interesting to see the Appalachians share a climate zone with Montana, North Dakota, and Minnesota. http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww243/phillywillie/Mobile%20Uploads/1A591E67-4D7C-463F-A35F-A2132820C0D1_zpspnxepijr.png Quote Live Weather Cam: https://www.youtube.com/live/KxlIo8-KVpc?si=xKLCFYWbZieAfyh6 PWS Wunderground https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KMDBETHE62 PWS CWOP/NOAA: https://www.weather.gov/wrh/timeseries?site=F3819&hours=72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luminen Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 Another interesting case is Chokurdakh, at 70'38" in Siberia. They make a recovery from an otherwise frozen polar environment (7.9F annual avg) to 61/44 in July. Note the dramatic recovery from April/May to July. I doubt this temperature profile exists anywhere else in the world at that latitude. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chokurdakh#Climate Verkhoyansk and Oymyakon have colder winters and warmer summers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oymyakon#Climatehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verkhoyansk#Climate Another really interesting climate zone is the west coast of Honshu. Joetsu, Japan has a "subtropical" climate and averages 248" of snow annually, with very mild temperatures no less. Not only that but it's exceedingly wet as well, averaging 108" of precipitation.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jōetsu,_Niigata#Climate Read this: On the 26th of February 1945, Jōetsu received as much as 3.77 metres (148 in) of snow in one day. The heaviest annual snowfall, since the beginning of regular snowfall measurements in 1953, was 14.94 metres (590 in) in the 1985/1986 season and the heaviest monthly total precipitation 942 millimetres (37 in) in January 1945 Kanazawa has another similar climate but a bit farther south:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanazawa#Geography.2C_climate.2C_and_population Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Hole Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 There are also some places in Manchuria where the monsoonal wind shift from a tropical to subtropical summer climate to a Siberian infused winter climate is completely unbelievable. Harbin, China is one that has always caught my eye. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harbin#ClimateSome of my relatives came from here in the early 1900s. It is a crazy place for sure. Quote Winter 23-24: Total Snow (3.2") Total Ice (0.2") Coldest Low: 1F Coldest High: 5F Snow Events: 0.1" Jan 5th, 0.2" Jan 9th, 1.6" Jan 14, 0.2" (ice) Jan 22, 1.3" Feb 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Hole Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 Another interesting case is Chokurdakh, at 70'38" in Siberia. They make a recovery from an otherwise frozen polar environment (7.9F annual avg) to 61/44 in July. Note the dramatic recovery from April/May to July. I doubt this temperature profile exists anywhere else in the world at that latitude. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chokurdakh#ClimateAfter looking at the wikipedia page, this is what I thought of Seriously though, pretty amazing that there can be places with temperatures swings like that. Quote Winter 23-24: Total Snow (3.2") Total Ice (0.2") Coldest Low: 1F Coldest High: 5F Snow Events: 0.1" Jan 5th, 0.2" Jan 9th, 1.6" Jan 14, 0.2" (ice) Jan 22, 1.3" Feb 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted August 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 Verkhoyansk and Oymyakon have colder winters and warmer summers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oymyakon#Climatehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verkhoyansk#Climate Another really interesting climate zone is the west coast of Honshu. Joetsu, Japan has a "subtropical" climate and averages 248" of snow annually, with very mild temperatures no less. Not only that but it's exceedingly wet as well, averaging 108" of precipitation.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jōetsu,_Niigata#Climate Read this: Kanazawa has another similar climate but a bit farther south:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanazawa#Geography.2C_climate.2C_and_population RE: Verkhoyansk and Oymyakon. Absolutely. Those two locations have the greatest temperature variation on earth between Summer and Winter. In the case of Chokurdakh, pay specific attention to the warmup from May (29/16 average) to July (61/44 average). That's unique as far as I know for a location above 70N latitude. Their climate has a typical polar signature all the way into early June, before making a somewhat miraculous recovery in July. Compare to Barrow, AK which averages 25/15 in May but only recovers to 46/34 in July. Both locations are near 71N. Baker Lake, Nunavut has an even more dramatic recovery from 27/14 in May to 63/43 in July, but they're much further south in latitude (64N) so they get the benefit of stronger solar forcing. Umiat, AK is another good example as they warm from 32/16 in May to 66/43 in July, but they're below the 70th parallel at 69'22". Chokurdakh (at 70'38") has the advantage of the Siberian landmass extending so far north, allowing summertime heating to be maximized despite the high latitude. The North American landmass doesn't extend as far north, so any location above 70N is strongly influenced by the Arctic Ocean. RE: Japan. Agreed. The northwestern coast of Honshu probably has the most fascinating climate on earth. Fully tropical in the summer, consistent heavy snowfall in the winter. Its a unique combination of 1) the Siberian High dominating winters and feeding cold air over the warm Sea of Japan - think Lake Effect snowfall but for 4-5 months straight, and 2) the East Asian monsoon creating tropical conditions during the summer. In the case of Kanazawa, as you can see in the link you provided, this creates a situation where August averages 88/75 but winter still brings 110" of snow on average. That's unreal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted August 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 After looking at the wikipedia page, this is what I thought of Seriously though, pretty amazing that there can be places with temperatures swings like that. Not a place I'd want to live. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 RE: Japan. Agreed. The northwestern coast of Honshu probably has the most fascinating climate on earth. Fully tropical in the summer, consistent heavy snowfall in the winter. Its a unique combination of 1) the Siberian High dominating winters and feeding cold air over the warm Sea of Japan - think Lake Effect snowfall but for 4-5 months straight, and 2) the East Asian monsoon creating tropical conditions during the summer. In the case of Kanazawa, as you can see in the link you provided, this creates a situation where August averages 88/75 but winter still brings 110" of snow on average. That's unreal.There are some areas in the USA with climates fairly similar to NW Honshu, maybe slightly cooler temperature profiles in both summer and winter. For example, many areas near Lake Erie/Ontario and in the Central Appalachians average close to 85/65 in July/August, receive 100"-150" of snowfall per winter, and experience frequent severe weather and thunderstorm activity during the summer. Quote Live Weather Cam: https://www.youtube.com/live/KxlIo8-KVpc?si=xKLCFYWbZieAfyh6 PWS Wunderground https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KMDBETHE62 PWS CWOP/NOAA: https://www.weather.gov/wrh/timeseries?site=F3819&hours=72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted August 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 There are some areas in the USA with climates fairly similar to NW Honshu, maybe slightly cooler temperature profiles in both summer and winter. For example, many areas near Lake Erie/Ontario and in the Central Appalachians average close to 85/65 in July/August, receive 100"-150" of snowfall per winter, and experience frequent severe weather and thunderstorm activity during the summer. True. But the NW coast of Honshu sticks out as more extreme, at least to me. Kanazawa (36'34" N) holds a 70/56 average for October, and still manages to cool off enough for 110" of snow to fall during the cold season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted August 26, 2016 Report Share Posted August 26, 2016 True. But the NW coast of Honshu sticks out as more extreme, at least to me. Kanazawa (36'34" N) holds a 70/56 average for October, and still manages to cool off enough for 110" of snow to fall during the cold season.In regards to the rapidity of the seasonal transition(s), I agree. Though I think the absolute yearly temperature spread is larger in the aforementioned US climates, mostly due to these regions tapping into colder, polar air masses in the winter given the enhanced lee troughing downstream from the N/S running western mountain ranges. Meanwhile, wavelengths changes and EML advection out of the Rockies keep the antecedent lee troughing biased NW during the summer, resulting in warm SW flow and moisture loading out of the gulf. Quote Live Weather Cam: https://www.youtube.com/live/KxlIo8-KVpc?si=xKLCFYWbZieAfyh6 PWS Wunderground https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KMDBETHE62 PWS CWOP/NOAA: https://www.weather.gov/wrh/timeseries?site=F3819&hours=72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted August 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2016 Great stuff. It's not a Köppen climate classification outlier, but for sheer range, it's hard to beat Yakutsk, Russia. A spread of 182º between the record high and the record low. In the fall, the daily average temperature drops more than 1º from one day to the next. July is 105º warmer then January on the monthly average -- it would be interesting to see the difference between the individual warmest and coldest average days of the year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakutsk What makes Yakutsk special is that its a decent sized city, with a population of 270,000. By far the most extreme city of its size in the world. Their warmest daily record low in January is -71F, on the 30th. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted August 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2016 Well, if the summer precip is adequate but the coldest month is above -3C/27F, its just temperate Oceanic. Unless there's only three months above 10C/50F, then its Subpolar Oceanic. If you're high enough and the coldest month is below -3C/27F, its either Humid Continental (4 or more months above 10C/50F) or Subarctic (3 or fewer months at 10C/50F). Once you get high enough and all months average under 10C/50F, its alpine Tundra. In the WA Cascades, the typical progression on the western slopes is temperate Oceanic>Subpolar Oceanic>Tundra...not much in the way of Humid Continental or Subarctic, unless you're on the eastern slopes. Did you get all that? LOL. It comes across like such a clusterf*ck when I read it back to myself, but that's the nature of the beast. To piggyback some more on this, I find it fascinating how climate change shifts climatic zones. We've been seeing quite a few locations that were on the margins switching over to the next warmest climate zone as temperatures have risen in their respective regions. For example Paradise Ranger Station just switched from Subarctic to Subpolar Oceanic as winter temperatures have warmed. For the 1961-90 baseline, Paradise averaged 26.3F in both December and January, just barely qualifying for Subarctic status since the coldest month was below -3C/26.6F and there were no more than three months averaging 10C/50F (only two in the case of Paradise, July and August). For the 1971-2000 baseline, Paradise still qualified for Subarctic classification (even though January had warmed to 26.7F) because December maintained a 26.3F average. July and August continued to be the only months above 10C/50F. Which takes us to the 1981-2010 baseline. January has spiked to 27.9F, more than a degree outside Subarctic classification, and December has climbed to 26.8F - tossing Paradise Ranger Station out of the Subarctic climate zone altogether. As before, only July and August hold an average above 10C/50F so Paradise has technically been reclassified as Subpolar Oceanic (maximum of 3 months above 10C with warmest month above -3C). Government Camp is interesting because it has oscillated between temperate Oceanic and Subpolar Oceanic over the last three 30 year baselines. The months of July, August and September have averaged above 10C/50F for all three baselines but June has bounced around. For the 1961-90 baseline, June averaged 50.4F - giving Government Camp a 4th month above 10C/50F and thus a temperate Oceanic climate (29.7F average in the coldest month well above -3C/26.6F cutoff for Humid Continental classification). However, for the 1971-2000 baseline the June average dipped to 49.9F, reclassifying Government Camp as Subpolar Oceanic. Which takes us to the 1981-2010 baseline, which saw the June average tick up to 50.0F - and warranting a reclassification back to temperate Oceanic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow_wizard Posted August 27, 2016 Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 Here is a Koppen map for WA State. Can anyone figure out the deal with the area east of Seattle that transitions from temperate oceanic, to temperate continental, and then cool continental (subarctic)? I'm guessing that could be the Wenatchee Mountains. The valleys there are one of the places in WA that can regularly have freezing low temps any month of the year. I'm surprised it would be classified that cold though. Quote Death To Warm Anomalies! Winter 2023-24 stats Total Snowfall = 1.0" Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1 Total Hail = 0.0 Total Ice = 0.2 Coldest Low = 13 Lows 32 or below = 45 Highs 32 or below = 3 Lows 20 or below = 3 Highs 40 or below = 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted August 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 Here is a Koppen map for WA State. Can anyone figure out the deal with the area east of Seattle that transitions from temperate oceanic, to temperate continental, and then cool continental (subarctic)? I'm guessing that could be the Wenatchee Mountains. The valleys there are one of the places in WA that can regularly have freezing low temps any month of the year. I'm surprised it would be classified that cold though. My guess would be Mt. Rainier, with the "blob" slightly misplaced on the map. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow_wizard Posted August 27, 2016 Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 My guess would be Mt. Rainier, with the "blob" slightly misplaced on the map. That would be a serious misplacement , but it's possible. When it comes right down to it the top third Rainier is full blown polar. I did get to thinking that Central WA east of the Seattle area does have the coolest summers east of the Cascades so that could be it also. Quote Death To Warm Anomalies! Winter 2023-24 stats Total Snowfall = 1.0" Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1 Total Hail = 0.0 Total Ice = 0.2 Coldest Low = 13 Lows 32 or below = 45 Highs 32 or below = 3 Lows 20 or below = 3 Highs 40 or below = 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Posted August 27, 2016 Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 My guess would be Mt. Rainier, with the "blob" slightly misplaced on the map.Yeah, that map looks to have incredibly low resolution. Pretty broad brushed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow_wizard Posted August 27, 2016 Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 Yeah, that map looks to have incredibly low resolution. Pretty broad brushed. Yup. I have looked for detailed temperature contour maps for WA and have been unable to fine any. High res maps of this type would be a fascinating study in the NW. Quote Death To Warm Anomalies! Winter 2023-24 stats Total Snowfall = 1.0" Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1 Total Hail = 0.0 Total Ice = 0.2 Coldest Low = 13 Lows 32 or below = 45 Highs 32 or below = 3 Lows 20 or below = 3 Highs 40 or below = 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Posted August 27, 2016 Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 Yup. I have looked for detailed temperature contour maps for WA and have been unable to fine any. High res maps of this type would be a fascinating study in the NW.Is there a job where you can do that kind of thing for a living? Because that would be right up my alley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow_wizard Posted August 27, 2016 Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 Is there a job where you can do that kind of thing for a living? Because that would be right up my alley. There must be, but I have no idea how you would find it. The one thing we probably need in WA and OR is more temperature sensors in remote areas. There are some huge holes that would make doing a detailed temperature contour map a bit difficult. Quote Death To Warm Anomalies! Winter 2023-24 stats Total Snowfall = 1.0" Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1 Total Hail = 0.0 Total Ice = 0.2 Coldest Low = 13 Lows 32 or below = 45 Highs 32 or below = 3 Lows 20 or below = 3 Highs 40 or below = 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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