Three Most Displaced Climate Zones on Earth

[snow_wizard]

From what I can tell there are quite a few Snotel sites in the mountains that keep pretty consistent temperature data.

 

It is getting better, but the Wenatchee Mountains are still very thin.  I'm fascinated with the climate there since it's my stomping grounds for gold mining. 

[Jesse]

It is getting better, but the Wenatchee Mountains are still very thin. I'm fascinated with the climate there since it's my stomping grounds for gold mining.

They certainly have an interesting climate. A good deal of rock, ice, and alpine tundra in that range.

 

I think they get the benefit of both NW flow cooling in the summer, being relatively close to the Cascade Crest, and fairly deep cold airmasses on the east side in the winter. Keeps things on the cool to cold side year round.

 

Have you ever heard of the Enchantment Lakes up there? Gorgeous spot.

 

[wx_statman]

Very nice, good luck!

 

I am actually quite close to getting my two-year degree from Clark College. It is a transfer degree meant to carry directly over to science-related bachelors programs at four year colleges (likely PSU or WSU Vancouver at this point) so it is a bit sturdier than a general AA. I just finished up the four quarter calculus sequence and five quarter chemistry sequence this last school year. Proud to say I have gotten straight A's so far.

 

Good job man! Those are difficult subjects. 

 

If you go to PSU I might run into you. That's where I'm starting classes this fall. 

 

Its funny I got my BS in Earth Sciences way back in 2004, after I just turned 21. But I didn't take it seriously and didn't really believe in it as a career path - even though its right up my alley. I was more concerned with making money because I thought I would be happier that way. I did sales for two years, then commercial Real Estate for two and a half years. Then the economy collapsed and I found myself at 26 not having any idea what to do with myself. Luckily for me I found a stable job that paid about $60K a year, but it didn't have anything to do with the sciences so it was inherently not interesting to me. I couldn't stay there forever. So after wasting 7 years of my life, I quit this past May. And now I've made the decision to go back to college in my 30's. 

 

And you know what? I feel really good about it. I'll happily take on more student debt and work part time for a while if it means doing what I really want to do in life. I'm single with no kids so I can actually pull it off too. That stuff can wait. 

[wx_statman]

Good job to those continuing their education, always good to see!

 

I did the BS in atmospheric science with a math minor. I think even better than that is a CS minor as you are way more attractive to employers if you can program. I would highly recommend a cs minor.

 

As it is, working on my PHD I have picked up a lot of programming skills, but it would have been better to learn them ahead of time. I have had to learn linux, NCL, bash, and matlab. I already had some skills in c++ which are relevant as well. Oh well, hoping to finish in maybe 1.5 years or so. 

 

Thanks for the recommendation. That actually never crossed my mind, but I'll have to look into it. 

[snow_wizard]

They certainly have an interesting climate. A good deal of rock, ice, and alpine tundra in that range.

 

I think they get the benefit of both NW flow cooling in the summer, being relatively close to the Cascade Crest, and fairly deep cold airmasses on the east side in the winter. Keeps things on the cool to cold side year round.

 

Have you ever heard of the Enchantment Lakes up there? Gorgeous spot.

 

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I have heard of it, but never been there.  I am usually in the Liberty area.  Talk about a haven for geologists.  During my years of mining there I have seen geologic features that defy explanation.  One of the old time miners I knew actually found a pertrified fish with streaks of gold running through it.  You can only imagine the sequence of events that had to transpire to create that!

 

The area you have in the picture may be the area the Koppen system classifies as sub Arctic.  It is unique in WA as it is a range of very high mountains well east of the Cascade Crest.  Summers are kept cool by the strong W to NW winds that blow in through the low gaps in the Central Cascades.  That part of Central WA has the coolest summers east of the Cascades and yet has winters as cold as anywhere else over there.

[Jesse]

I have heard of it, but never been there. I am usually in the Liberty area. Talk about a haven for geologists. During my years of mining there I have seen geologic features that defy explanation. One of the old time miners I knew actually found a pertrified fish with streaks of gold running through it. You can only imagine the sequence of events that had to transpire to create that!

 

The area you have in the picture may be the area the Koppen system classifies as sub Arctic. It is unique in WA as it is a range of very high mountains well east of the Cascade Crest. Summers are kept cool by the strong W to NW winds that blow in through the low gaps in the Central Cascades. That part of Central WA has the coolest summers east of the Cascades and yet has winters as cold as anywhere else over there.

We actually passed through Liberty on the way to Leavenworth back in late June. Very scenic area with some interesting history. And yes, the rocks there have quite the story. They are part of a completely different geological province than most of the Cascades. Lots of metamorphic and serpentine action going on. Makes for some very interesting botany in the area as well (especially in the upper Teanaway drainage) since plants have to make special adaptations to survive in serpentine soils.

 

The Enchantment Lakes basin certainly has a sub-Arctic climate. The upper basin sits between 6-7,000', and is snowbound about ten months a year on average. Some of the uppermost lakes didn't even exist 50 years ago, as they are just now emerging from glacial ice and snow.

 

The Wenatchee Mountains are indeed the highest mountain range east of the main Cascade crest in Washington. Mount Stuart, the high point of the range, has the distinction of being the highest non-volcanic peak in the state, sitting at 9,416'.

[wx_statman]

We actually passed through Liberty on the way to Leavenworth back in late June. Very scenic area with some interesting history. And yes, the rocks there have quite the story. They are part of a completely different geological province than most of the Cascades. Lots of metamorphic and serpentine action going on. Makes for some very interesting botany in the area as well (especially in the upper Teanaway drainage) since plants have to make special adaptations to survive in serpentine soils.

 

The Enchantment Lakes basin certainly has a sub-Arctic climate. The upper basin sits between 6-7,000', and is snowbound about ten months a year on average. Some of the uppermost lakes didn't even exist 50 years ago, as they are just now emerging from glacial ice and snow.

 

The Wenatchee Mountains are indeed the highest mountain range east of the main Cascade crest in Washington. Mount Stuart, the high point of the range, has the distinction of being the highest non-volcanic peak in the state, sitting at 9,416'.

 

To me the most fascinating displaced area of topography in the PNW is the Wallowa Mountains. They are geologically part of the Insular Belt that spans Vancouver Island, the Queen Charlottes, and up into SE Alaska. They're not related to the Cascades or the Rockies, and in fact they're not related to North American plate tectonics at all, rather to an ancient island group they once belonged to along with the rest of the Insular Belt. 

 

So places like Joseph and Enterprise are more related geologically to Yakutat, AK than they are to any other part of the PNW. 

[snow_wizard]

To me the most fascinating displaced area of topography in the PNW is the Wallowa Mountains. They are geologically part of the Insular Belt that spans Vancouver Island, the Queen Charlottes, and up into SE Alaska. They're not related to the Cascades or the Rockies, and in fact they're not related to North American plate tectonics at all, rather to an ancient island group they once belonged to along with the rest of the Insular Belt. 

 

So places like Joseph and Enterprise are more related geologically to Yakutat, AK than they are to any other part of the PNW. 

 

That is pretty insane stuff alright!  The Western United States is certainly a hodge podge.  The area where I mine is all shale, sandstone, and metamorphic.  Just a couple of miles east it's basalt and to the NW granite.

[Jesse]

To me the most fascinating displaced area of topography in the PNW is the Wallowa Mountains. They are geologically part of the Insular Belt that spans Vancouver Island, the Queen Charlottes, and up into SE Alaska. They're not related to the Cascades or the Rockies, and in fact they're not related to North American plate tectonics at all, rather to an ancient island group they once belonged to along with the rest of the Insular Belt.

 

So places like Joseph and Enterprise are more related geologically to Yakutat, AK than they are to any other part of the PNW.

Agreed, the Wallowas are incredible. Known among geologists as an "exotic terrane", this mountain range was an island or group of islands that was essentially scraped up by the North American continent, during a time when its western shore was much further east that its current location.

 

The Siskiyous in Southern Oregon are another example of a similar phenomenon. I've always found it interesting that Oregon has these two oddball clusters of rugged mountains in its exteme northeastern corner and exteme southwestern corner. There is a certain symmetry to it that I kind of like.

[wx_statman]

Agreed, the Wallowas are incredible. Known among geologists as an "exotic terrane", this mountain range was an island or group of islands that was essentially scraped up by the North American continent, during a time when its western shore was much further east that its current location.

 

The Siskiyous in Southern Oregon are another example of a similar phenomenon. I've always found it interesting that Oregon has these two oddball clusters of rugged mountains in its exteme northeastern corner and exteme southwestern corner. There is a certain symmetry to it that I kind of like.

 

They're really beautiful too. The "Alps of Oregon." I went there one time way back in 1996. I need to go back at some point. 

 

On another interesting note, there are supposedly lines of sight from certain places in the Wallowas to Mount Rainier, a distance of over 200 miles. These would be some of the longest lines of sight in the world, but I don't think they've ever been confirmed. 

[Anti Marine Layer]

Lima, Peru is also interesting. Despite being in the tropics and in a desert, they have a distinct summer and winter and the winters are persistently cool and foggy as a result of the Humboldt Current. The winter highs are actually cooler than Southern California.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lima#Climate

 

Summers are warm, humid and relatively sunny. Daily temperatures oscillate between lows of 18 °C (64 °F) to 22 °C (72 °F) and highs of 24 °C (75 °F) to 29 °C (84 °F). Occasional coastal fogs on some mornings and high clouds in some afternoons and evenings can be present. Summer sunsets are colorful, labeled by locals as "cielo de brujas" (Spanish for "sky of witches"), since the sky commonly turns shades of orange, pink and red around 7 pm. Winter weather is dramatically different. Grey skies, breezy conditions, high humidity and cool temperatures prevail. Long (1-week or more) stretches of dark overcast skies are not uncommon. Persistent morning drizzle occurs occasionally from June through September, coating the streets with a thin layer of water that generally dries up by early afternoon. Winter temperatures vary little between day and night. They range from lows of 14 °C (57 °F) to 16 °C (61 °F) and highs of 16 °C (61 °F) to 19 °C (66 °F), rarely exceeding 20 °C (68 °F) except in the easternmost districts.^[34]

[wx_statman]

Lima, Peru is also interesting. Despite being in the tropics and in a desert, they have a distinct summer and winter and the winters are persistently cool and foggy as a result of the Humboldt Current. The winter highs are actually cooler than Southern California.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lima#Climate

 

That's a great example of a displaced climate as well. A 65/58 average at sea level for the coldest month despite being located at 12S latitude. You'll be hard pressed to find any other sea level location in the world that deep in the tropics that averages even as cool as 80/70 during any month. 

[wx_statman]

Speaking of the Humboldt current, its recurvature out to the west around Ecuador creates one of the greatest (and possibly the greatest) coastal precipitation gradients in the world. Manta, Ecuador is still under the influence of the cold Humboldt current at 1N latitude, averaging only 9.99" per year. A little more than 400 miles up the coast - approximately the distance between Brookings and Hoquiam - lies the city of Buenaventura, Colombia. Away from the Humboldt current and fully under the influence of the ITCZ, this city averages 247.07" per year at 4N latitude. The difference between the two cities is only 3 degrees of latitude and there are no mountain ranges in between. 

 

Manta at 00'57" North -

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manta,_Ecuador#Climate

 

Buenaventura at 3'52" North -

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buenaventura,_Valle_del_Cauca#Climate

[luminen]

An analog to the Ecuadorian/Peruvian/Chilean coast is the Namibian coast.

 

Walvis Bay is at 22S so a bit farther from the equator but it's considerably cooler:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walvis_Bay#Climate

 

For comparison, Lobito, Angola at 12S is much warmer than Lima:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobito#Climate

 

 

Although not "displaced" as far as temperatures go, Malabo is one hell of a dreary tropical climate:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malabo#Climate

 

   

 

As far as Colombia/Ecuador go, Quibdó is pretty much where the precipitation maxes out, with 320" as the annual average. I'd love to spend a year there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quibdó#Climate

[wx_statman]

Christopher Burt on Wunderground had a fascinating blog about rainfall in Colombia:

 

https://www.wunderground.com/blog/weatherhistorian/new-wettest-place-on-earth-discovered

 

Taking the average for those 31 complete years of data the annual average actually comes out a bit higher at 13,466.3 mm (530.17”). The wettest year was 1984 with an astonishing 23,818 mm (937.72”) and the driest with 6,195 mm (243.90”) in 1980 (both years with complete data sets). Almost as incredible are the number of days of measurable precipitation that totaled 353 days in 1984 and 355 days in 1985 (when 19,444 mm/765.51”) were recorded. Virtually two years of daily rainfall. The precipitation falls more or less evenly over the course of the year ranging from 899 mm (35.39”) in February to 1197 mm (47.13”) in May.

[Jesse]

They're really beautiful too. The "Alps of Oregon." I went there one time way back in 1996. I need to go back at some point.

 

On another interesting note, there are supposedly lines of sight from certain places in the Wallowas to Mount Rainier, a distance of over 200 miles. These would be some of the longest lines of sight in the world, but I don't think they've ever been confirmed.

That's incredible if so. But I could picture it.

 

On really clear days with the sun in the eastern sky I have been able to spot the top of Rainier from near the Tri-Cities. The Wallowas are a couple hundred miles further southeast, but they are much higher which gives them an advantage.

[BLI snowman]

That's incredible if so. But I could picture it.

 

On really clear days with this sun in the eastern sky I have been able to spot the top of Rainier from near the Tri-Cities. The Wallowas are a couple hundred miles further southeast, but they are much higher which gives them an advantage.

 

Wouldn't Adams obscure Rainier for the most part?

[Jesse]

Wouldn't Adams obscure Rainier for the most part?

Not from that angle.

 

The only place you'd have a chance of that is close to the southeast side of Adams. Even due south of Adams, with some elevation, you can generally see Rainier off to the left, since Rainier is displaced a good bit to the west, relative to Adams.

 

Adams sits directly astride the Cascade Crest, with its glaciers feeding the Cispus, Lewis, White Salmon and Klickitat drainages. Whereas Rainier sits entirely west of the Cascade Crest. All of its glacial waters end up either in the Puget sound via the White, Puyallup and Nisqually rivers, while the southeast quadrant of the peak feeds the Columbia via the Cowlitz. Not any of the rivers originating on Rainier breach the Cascade Crest and feed the Naches/Tieton/Yakima drainages. Most people might assume it's on the crest but it actually isn't.

 

Interestingly, Mount Saint Helens sits directly in the view line of Rainier for most of the Portland metro area. Only when you get into the north and west part of the metro (again some elevation is required for this) can you see the upper 1/3 of Rainer peeking around the west side of St. Helens.

[BLI snowman]

Not from that angle.

 

The only place you'd have a chance of that is close to the southeast side of Adams. Even due south of Adams, with some elevation, you can generally see Rainier off to the left, since Rainier is displaced a good bit to the west, relative to Adams.

 

Adams sits directly astride the Cascade Crest, with its glaciers feeding the Cispus, Lewis, White Salmon and Klickitat drainages. Whereas Rainier sits entirely west of the Cascade Crest. All of its glacial waters end up either in the Puget sound via the White, Puyallup and Nisqually rivers, while the southeast quadrant of the peak feeds the Columbia via the Cowlitz. Not any of the rivers originating on Rainier breach the Cascade Crest and feed the Naches/Tieton/Yakima drainages. Most people might assume it's on the crest but it actually isn't.

 

Interestingly, Mount Saint Helens sits directly in the view line of Rainier for most of the Portland metro area. Only when you get into the north and west part of the metro (again some elevation is required for this) can you see the upper 1/3 of Rainer peeking around the west side of St. Helens.

 

There's a couple of places where Rainier peeks out to the left of St. Helens in Clark County, but it's pretty hard to see. Offhand I know on 119th St. near Thornton's Tree Farm there's a spot. I'm sure there's a spot in the West Hills, and then there's a much better view once you cross the Columbia of course (hence why there's a town called Rainier over there).

 

And yeah, the eastern side of Rainier is still west of the crest, as is St. Helens. The drive on  Highway 123 around the SE side of the mountain is still very forested and lush, on the windward side of things in spite of being shadowed somewhat. 

[wx_statman]

Not from that angle.

 

The only place you'd have a chance of that is close to the southeast side of Adams. Even due south of Adams, with some elevation, you can generally see Rainier off to the left, since Rainier is displaced a good bit to the west, relative to Adams.

 

Adams sits directly astride the Cascade Crest, with its glaciers feeding the Cispus, Lewis, White Salmon and Klickitat drainages. Whereas Rainier sits entirely west of the Cascade Crest. All of its glacial waters end up either in the Puget sound via the White, Puyallup and Nisqually rivers, while the southeast quadrant of the peak feeds the Columbia via the Cowlitz. Not any of the rivers originating on Rainier breach the Cascade Crest and feed the Naches/Tieton/Yakima drainages. Most people might assume it's on the crest but it actually isn't.

 

Interestingly, Mount Saint Helens sits directly in the view line of Rainier for most of the Portland metro area. Only when you get into the north and west part of the metro (again some elevation is required for this) can you see the upper 1/3 of Rainer peeking around the west side of St. Helens.

 

You can actually see the upper portion of Rainier from I-205 just south of Foster Rd. It looks like a snowcapped hump on the east flank of St. Helens. 

 

Its one of my favorite lines of sight in the Portland area. The others being a dead-on view of Mt. Adams from N. Saint Louis Avenue and the line of sight to Bald Peak from Sunnyside Road in Happy Valley, made possible by the Lake Oswego gap. 

[BLI snowman]

You can actually see the upper portion of Rainier from I-205 just south of Foster Rd. It looks like a snowcapped hump on the east flank of St. Helens. 

 

Its one of my favorite lines of sight in the Portland area. The others being a dead-on view of Mt. Adams from N. Saint Louis Avenue and the line of sight to Bald Peak from Sunnyside Road in Happy Valley, made possible by the Lake Oswego gap. 

 

I love the rare days where Rainier, Adams, St. Helens, Jefferson, and Hood are all visible from Portland/Vancouver. There's a few spots where you can see 4 of them at once.

[wx_statman]

I love the rare days where Rainier, Adams, St. Helens, Jefferson, and Hood are all visible from Portland/Vancouver. There's a few spots where you can see 4 of them at once.

 

We're pretty spoiled here in that regard!

 

I'm pretty sure you can see at least 4 of those peaks from Council Crest. I haven't been up there in a while. 

[Jesse]

We're pretty spoiled here in that regard!

 

I'm pretty sure you can see at least 4 of those peaks from Council Crest. I haven't been up there in a while. 

 

I was up there recently. Unfortunately, trees have grown up in many spots.

 

Bald Peak, which you mentioned earlier, is a pretty decent place for it. As well as many spots in the West Hills

[Jesse]

There's a couple of places where Rainier peeks out to the left of St. Helens in Clark County, but it's pretty hard to see. Offhand I know on 119th St. near Thornton's Tree Farm there's a spot. I'm sure there's a spot in the West Hills, and then there's a much better view once you cross the Columbia of course (hence why there's a town called Rainier over there).

 

And yeah, the eastern side of Rainier is still west of the crest, as is St. Helens. The drive on  Highway 123 around the SE side of the mountain is still very forested and lush, on the windward side of things in spite of being shadowed somewhat. 

 

Yup, we were actually up in the Ohanapecosh area just yesterday. Giant forests of fir and cedar. Pretty amazing how lush it is for being on the leeward side of Rainier. I think what saves it is our predominantly SW flow in the winter. There are fewer high mountains directly to the SSW of that area, so precip probably has a tendency to move up the Cowlitz Valley and bank up there pretty often.

 

The Sunrise area, further north, is noticeably drier despite still being west of the Crest, because at that point Rainier is directly to the WSW, which probably mitigates precip totals just a bit.

[James Jones]

Maybe this is the wrong thread for it but I have a question for Statman - in your opinion, what are the most freakish weather events to ever hit the PWN? Could be anything - cold wave or heat wave, crazy precip, flooding, or wind events, heavy snow, monthly or yearly anomalies, etc.

 

No worries if this is too broad of a question or if you don't feel like making a list, but I think you'd be able to write up a really interesting breakdown 

[wx_statman]

Maybe this is the wrong thread for it but I have a question for Statman - in your opinion, what are the most freakish weather events to ever hit the PWN? Could be anything - cold wave or heat wave, crazy precip, flooding, or wind events, heavy snow, monthly or yearly anomalies, etc.

 

No worries if this is too broad of a question or if you don't feel like making a list, but I think you'd be able to write up a really interesting breakdown 

 

That's a good question. The obvious answer is the 7/11/08 clipper (never forget). 

 

OK, that's a little joke for the old timers from Western. 

 

Now for a serious answer. My nominee is the January 1935 storm sequence. Major arctic outbreak with heavy snow, followed by one of the heaviest rainfall events in PNW history. Perhaps the heaviest. Take a look at the numbers from Quinault Ranger Station @ the WRCC. They were 26/12 with a 14" snow depth right before the switch to rain, followed by 35.00" of rainfall in four days from the 21st to the 24th, including 12.00" and 11.50" on back to back days. The numbers almost look fake because they're so rounded. My guess is they had issues with the rain gauge (possibly overflowing?), so the observer rounded the totals. 

 

Forks had a 16/9 day on the 19th, followed by 14.51" of rain on the 21st-22nd. Sequim set an all-time record with a low of -3 on the 19th. Monroe had a 14/2 day on the 19th, and 20/4 on the 20th. On the 21st they had 1.80" of precip with a recorded snow depth of 7", I'm guessing right before the rain washed it away. Clearbrook was 11/0 on the 19th, followed by a three day ice storm from the 22nd-24th that culminated with 7.77" of rain on the 24th, their single day record. Newport, in NE Washington, was -35 on the 20th. Winthrop received 4.16" of precip on the 21st, a day after the high had been 0. The dry snow resulted in a 52.0" total that day, which stands as the WA state record for single day snowfall. 

 

Here's a monthly weather review from February 1935, discussing the events of the previous month:

 

http://docs.lib.noaa.gov/rescue/mwr/063/mwr-063-02-0058.pdf

 

This event received a mention in Environment Canada's "Top Weather Events of the 20th Century" for the damage it caused in the Vancouver area:

 

http://ec.gc.ca/meteo-weather/default.asp?lang=En&n=6A4A3AC5-1

 

• Cold Wave Freezes Victoria and BC's Lower Mainland - January 19-29, 1935. Winter weather gripped Vancouver, with temperatures dipping to -16° and snowfall greater than 40 cm. While the extreme cold caused fuel shortages and frozen water supplies, a quick thaw followed by 267 mm of rain over the next four days added extensive roof damage across the city, including the collapse of the Forum -- the city's main hockey and curling rink.

Doing a quick conversion - Vancouver dropped to 3F, received more than 15" of snow, and then 10.51" of rain over four days. 

[DareDuck]

We're pretty spoiled here in that regard!

 

I'm pretty sure you can see at least 4 of those peaks from Council Crest. I haven't been up there in a while.

Some of those peaks definitely beat here in central Oregon, but on a clear day you can see 8 peaks from certain places. Mt. Bachelor, Broken Top, Three Sisters, Mt. Washington, Jefferson, and Hood. You could even throw Three Finger Jack in there.

[wx_statman]

Some of those peaks definitely beat here in central Oregon, but on a clear day you can see 8 peaks from certain places. Mt. Bachelor, Broken Top, Three Sisters, Mt. Washington, Jefferson, and Hood. You could even throw Three Finger Jack in there.

 

There's a viewpoint on the west side of Smith Rock that I like. You can see the Cascade crest for a length of maybe 150 miles from there. I bet that view contains most of those peaks you mentioned. 

[snow_wizard]

That's a good question. The obvious answer is the 7/11/08 clipper (never forget). 

 

 

In all seriousness...that clipper had something about it that I thought boded well for us.  Turns out it did...

[wx_statman]

In all seriousness...that clipper had something about it that I thought boded well for us.  Turns out it did...

 

Yeah, I'm real fond of that clipper. In all seriousness. 

 

NNE 38g59 @ OMK on 7/10/08. Temp drop 84 to 49 from afternoon to midnight. About as anomalous as it gets for that time of year. 

 

https://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KOMK/2008/7/10/DailyHistory.html?req_city=Omak&req_state=WA&req_statename=&reqdb.zip=98841&reqdb.magic=4&reqdb.wmo=99999

[wx_statman]

Going back to lines of sight, here's a 195 mile view from Brunswick Mountain north of Vancouver, BC to Mt. Rainier, taken in January 2009:

 

http://images.summitpost.org/original/486827.jpg

[wx_statman]

What makes Yakutsk special is that its a decent sized city, with a population of 270,000. By far the most extreme city of its size in the world.

 

Their warmest daily record low in January is -71F, on the 30th. 

 

Here's a neat video I found from Yakutsk. City people going about their lives in -53F cold. The description in Russian says overnight low was -51C/-60F and the morning temperature was -47C/-53F, presumably when this vid was taken.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mNjlv0sqSg

[Black Hole]

Here's a neat video I found from Yakutsk. City people going about their lives in -53F cold. The description in Russian says overnight low was -51C/-60F and the morning temperature was -47C/-53F, presumably when this vid was taken.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mNjlv0sqSg

That girl talking on her cell phone with an exposed hand is pretty tough near 45 seconds. That is unpleasant when the temperature drops much below freezing, let alone 50 below zero. 

 

The people sure looked like they didn't think much of it though. 

[wx_statman]

That girl talking on her cell phone with an exposed hand is pretty tough near 45 seconds. That is unpleasant when the temperature drops much below freezing, let alone 50 below zero. 

 

The people sure looked like they didn't think much of it though.

 

I'm guessing a lot of it has to do with being born and raised there. The body gets used to the cold from an early age. 

[luminen]

True but I just don't know how they adjust from 80s/90s in summer to -50/-60.

[Karl Bonner]

My two cents on this thread:

 

1.  Portland is too cool and wet to be a Mediterranean climate proper.  I think that because the Med climate is held in romantic esteem by humanity (many ancient civilizations were located in or near this biome), we have a natural tendency to "shoehorn" climates into this category.  Yes, Portland may have relatively mild winters and a summer dry season - but the numbers and vegetation don't add up to anything like California or Southern Europe. 

 

Instead, the PNW has one of the world's few "dry summer oceanic" zones.

 

2.  Rost, Norway is obviously not Mediterranean!  More like subpolar oceanic.  Average winter temps above 32F are no reason to shoehorn this climate as Mediterranean.  And at that latitude and temperature, it's hard to think of 1" of rain in June as a "dry season" due to the low evaporation rates.

 

3.  Kurilsk and Turpan are fascinating with respect to spring/fall seasonal lag.  In the former case, you have October temps that are just about as warm as June.  In the latter case, October is nearly 10 degrees colder than April!  I'm going to assume the continentality/oceanicity plays a role here.  The changing seasonal sun angle can work its magic very promptly in Turpan, while everything is muffled by the subtropical ocean in Kurilsk.

[wx_statman]

My two cents on this thread:

 

1.  Portland is too cool and wet to be a Mediterranean climate proper.  I think that because the Med climate is held in romantic esteem by humanity (many ancient civilizations were located in or near this biome), we have a natural tendency to "shoehorn" climates into this category.  Yes, Portland may have relatively mild winters and a summer dry season - but the numbers and vegetation don't add up to anything like California or Southern Europe. 

 

Instead, the PNW has one of the world's few "dry summer oceanic" zones.

 

2.  Rost, Norway is obviously not Mediterranean!  More like subpolar oceanic.  Average winter temps above 32F are no reason to shoehorn this climate as Mediterranean.  And at that latitude and temperature, it's hard to think of 1" of rain in June as a "dry season" due to the low evaporation rates.

 

3.  Kurilsk and Turpan are fascinating with respect to spring/fall seasonal lag.  In the former case, you have October temps that are just about as warm as June.  In the latter case, October is nearly 10 degrees colder than April!  I'm going to assume the continentality/oceanicity plays a role here.  The changing seasonal sun angle can work its magic very promptly in Turpan, while everything is muffled by the subtropical ocean in Kurilsk.

 

The Koppen System unfortunately has its limitations. It was designed by a European in the late 19th century, using European reference points. There have been a number of attempts to modernize it (Trewartha, etc) but the original Koppen system has been able to maintain its status as the lingua franca of climatological classification. I agree that a place like Rost is subpolar oceanic through and through, and only fails to qualify by a fluke in the classification system. 

[SilverFallsAndrew]

I used to work at the Mt. Angel Abbey. From the top of the hill there is an amazing view of Hood and you can see Adams and St. Helens well. On a clear day Mt. Rainer is also clearly visible to the right of St. Helens.

[HighlandExperience]

Here is a Koppen map for WA State. Can anyone figure out the deal with the area east of Seattle that transitions from temperate oceanic, to temperate continental, and then cool continental (subarctic)? I'm guessing that could be the Wenatchee Mountains. The valleys there are one of the places in WA that can regularly have freezing low temps any month of the year. I'm surprised it would be classified that cold though.

That map is seriously off in terms of our actual geography and climate. I would like to see a map with better resolution.

 

Another thing to note is that the entire Pasayten Wilderness area of the North Central Washington Cascades had the largest area of tundra in the lower 48. The last herd of caribou in the lower 48 actually resides in the highlands of Northeast Washington.

 

Carl is spot on in that our climate is one of the rare oceanic climates with dry summers. Our climate is not like Southern Europe.

[Jesse]

That map is seriously off in terms of our actual geography and climate. I would like to see a map with better resolution.

 

Another thing to note is that the entire Pasayten Wilderness area of the North Central Washington Cascades had the largest area of tundra in the lower 48. The last herd of caribou in the lower 48 actually resides in the highlands of Northeast Washington.

 

Carl is spot on in that our climate is one of the rare oceanic climates with dry summers. Our climate like Southern Europe.

I love that factoid about the Pasayten. That is one of the most fascinating climate regions of the state, IMO. The eastern part of the area features several high plateaus that are indeed covered with tundra. Probably some of the lowest annual mean temps in the state in that region, if not the lowest (aside from the summits of the Cascade volcanoes). Northeastern Washington also hosts all of the "Canadian" species such as lynx, moose, woodland caribou, grey wolf and North American brown bear (Grizzlies).

 

The Methow valley in the south part of that region has an incredible ability to stay frigid in the winter for extended spells, even long after the west side has warmed up. Another area up there that is great at holding onto cold is the Waterville Plateau, east of Wenatchee.

[Jesse]

My two cents on this thread:

 

1. Portland is too cool and wet to be a Mediterranean climate proper. I think that because the Med climate is held in romantic esteem by humanity (many ancient civilizations were located in or near this biome), we have a natural tendency to "shoehorn" climates into this category. Yes, Portland may have relatively mild winters and a summer dry season - but the numbers and vegetation don't add up to anything like California or Southern Europe.

 

Instead, the PNW has one of the world's few "dry summer oceanic" zones.

 

2. Rost, Norway is obviously not Mediterranean! More like subpolar oceanic. Average winter temps above 32F are no reason to shoehorn this climate as Mediterranean. And at that latitude and temperature, it's hard to think of 1" of rain in June as a "dry season" due to the low evaporation rates.

 

3. Kurilsk and Turpan are fascinating with respect to spring/fall seasonal lag. In the former case, you have October temps that are just about as warm as June. In the latter case, October is nearly 10 degrees colder than April! I'm going to assume the continentality/oceanicity plays a role here. The changing seasonal sun angle can work its magic very promptly in Turpan, while everything is muffled by the subtropical ocean in Kurilsk.

I agree that dry summer oceanic is a much better classification for us.

[HighlandExperience]

I love that factoid about the Pasayten. That is one of the most fascinating climate regions of the state, IMO. The eastern part of the area features several high plateaus that are indeed covered with tundra. Probably some of the lowest annual mean temps in the state in that region, if not the lowest (aside from the summits of the Cascade volcanoes). Northeastern Washington also hosts all of the "Canadian" species such as lynx, moose, woodland caribou, grey wolf and North American brown bear (Grizzlies).

The Methow valley in the south part of that region has an incredible ability to stay frigid in the winter for extended spells, even long after the west side has warmed up. Another area up there that is great at holding onto cold is the Waterville Plateau, east of Wenatchee.

Exactly. Btw sorry for the crappy grammar in my post. I'm typing from my iPhone

[wx_statman]

"Dry summer oceanic" is Mediterranean. Dry summers are the only distinction that separate a temperate oceanic climate from a Mediterranean one. 

 

The native vegetation of the Willamette Valley does in fact reflect our Mediterranean climate. Prior to European settlement, the valley was dominated by open prairie/grasslands along with oak groves. Much like what you would find in central California. There were very few Douglas firs on the valley floor and they were typically found in mixed coniferous/broadleaf groves. 

[wx_statman]

That map is seriously off in terms of our actual geography and climate. I would like to see a map with better resolution.

 

Another thing to note is that the entire Pasayten Wilderness area of the North Central Washington Cascades had the largest area of tundra in the lower 48. The last herd of caribou in the lower 48 actually resides in the highlands of Northeast Washington.

 

Carl is spot on in that our climate is one of the rare oceanic climates with dry summers. Our climate is not like Southern Europe.

 

Absolutely, and its not classified as such. Southern Europe has a hot-summer Mediterranean climate. The Willamette Valley has a warm-summer Mediterranean climate. 

[Jesse]

"Dry summer oceanic" is Mediterranean. Dry summers are the only distinction that separate a temperate oceanic climate from a Mediterranean one.

 

The native vegetation of the Willamette Valley does in fact reflect our Mediterranean climate. Prior to European settlement, the valley was dominated by open prairie/grasslands along with oak groves. Much like what you would find in central California. There were very few Douglas firs on the valley floor and they were typically found in mixed coniferous/broadleaf groves.

It's interesting what you are saying about the native vegetation of the Willamette Valley. Much of it was indeed oak savannah prior to European settlement. Although this may have also been partially due to the annual controlled burns that many of the area's native tribes practiced each autumn, in order to open up areas for game the following spring and summer.

 

I was surprised to find out that there is actually a sub-species of ponderosa pine that is native to the Willamette Valley and even parts of the south Puget Sound lowlands, historically. Its needles are slightly longer and darker colored than the east side counterpart, and it is more resistant to fungal issues that would be brought about by the wetter climate.

 

I would argue that the character of the Willamette valley vegetation is still much different than Central Valley native vegetation, though. Even today, you don't start seeing pines in large concentration until the North Umpqua drainage and point south. The same goes for broadleaf evergreens like madrona and live oak.

[wx_statman]

It's interesting what you are saying about the native vegetation of the Willamette Valley. Much of it was indeed oak savannah prior to European settlement. Although this may have also been partially due to the annual controlled burns that many of the area's native tribes practiced each autumn, in order to open up areas for game the following spring and summer.

 

I was surprised to find out that there is actually a sub-species of ponderosa pine that is native to the Willamette Valley and even parts of the south Puget Sound lowlands, historically. Its needles are slightly longer and darker colored than the east side counterpart, and it is more resistant to fungal issues that would be brought about by the wetter climate.

 

I would argue that the character of the Willamette valley vegetation is still much different than Central Valley native vegetation, though. Even today, you don't start seeing pines in large concentration until the North Umpqua drainage and point south. The same goes for broadleaf evergreens like madrona and live oak.

 

I always wondered about the pine trees next to my old apartment on Sunnyside Rd. They're a rare sight in the Portland area. 

[Jesse]

I always wondered about the pine trees next to my old apartment on Sunnyside Rd. They're a rare sight in the Portland area.

Yup. A few interesting links.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willamette_Valley_Ponderosa_Pine

 

http://extension.oregonstate.edu/gardening/node/1080

[SilverFallsAndrew]

It's interesting what you are saying about the native vegetation of the Willamette Valley. Much of it was indeed oak savannah prior to European settlement. Although this may have also been partially due to the annual controlled burns that many of the area's native tribes practiced each autumn, in order to open up areas for game the following spring and summer.

 

I was surprised to find out that there is actually a sub-species of ponderosa pine that is native to the Willamette Valley and even parts of the south Puget Sound lowlands, historically. Its needles are slightly longer and darker colored than the east side counterpart, and it is more resistant to fungal issues that would be brought about by the wetter climate.

 

I would argue that the character of the Willamette valley vegetation is still much different than Central Valley native vegetation, though. Even today, you don't start seeing pines in large concentration until the North Umpqua drainage and point south. The same goes for broadleaf evergreens like madrona and live oak.

 

It's interesting what you are saying about the native vegetation of the Willamette Valley. Much of it was indeed oak savannah prior to European settlement. Although this may have also been partially due to the annual controlled burns that many of the area's native tribes practiced each autumn, in order to open up areas for game the following spring and summer.

 

I was surprised to find out that there is actually a sub-species of ponderosa pine that is native to the Willamette Valley and even parts of the south Puget Sound lowlands, historically. Its needles are slightly longer and darker colored than the east side counterpart, and it is more resistant to fungal issues that would be brought about by the wetter climate.

 

I would argue that the character of the Willamette valley vegetation is still much different than Central Valley native vegetation, though. Even today, you don't start seeing pines in large concentration until the North Umpqua drainage and point south. The same goes for broadleaf evergreens like madrona and live oak.

 

There are some great groves of old oaks at the edges of the valley near Dallas and Silverton. My dad has an Oak that is probably nearly 350 years old. Amazing to think what that tree has seen...

[IbrChris]

Turpan Depression in western China should get an honorable mention.

[wx_statman]

Turpan Depression in western China should get an honorable mention.

 

It did. 

 

In the following comments anyway.