Jump to content

2016 Fall Off Topic Thread AKA Football or Politics


MossMan

Recommended Posts

The bill is being written each day and they keep making changes. The real version will be done very soon, and it's going to be a good bill. It takes time to replace. In the first couple days he pretty much got rid of the individual mandate which pretty much killed Obamacare (even health care CEO's talked about how big that was and helpful) 

 

Its going to be so great.   Just incredible.   It will be the best healthcare bill you have ever seen and everyone will love it and it will solve all the problems in the world.

 

Trump is a complete moron.  

**REPORTED CONDITIONS AND ANOMALIES ARE NOT MEANT TO IMPLY ANYTHING ON A REGIONAL LEVEL UNLESS SPECIFICALLY STATED**

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Sounder

You actually make SOME really good points here. I do believe that Hillary would have had a similar, perhaps even more significant, boomerang effect though. Fair or not, she is one of the most reviled people in DC, especially by the right. She would have energized them as Sanders would have never done. It is my belief that a lot of potential Sanders supporters in the rust belt states (many of which he won primaries in) swung towards Trump once Bernie failed to get nominated. At least some of the electoral "upsets" in those states was due to this effect, IMO. People were in an anti-establishment mood.

 

We had a choice between an admittedly imperfect but earnest supporter of Scandinavian style democratic socialism on the left and a insecure, small minded authoritarian parading around as a populist on the right. Unfortunately we got stuck with the orange man child. That fact alone tells you how fed up people were (and still are) with establishment politics.

 

Also, looking globally, Hillary is solidly Center right. We don't have to devolve back into ad hominem if you disagree (although that was sort of fun), but that is pretty clear to anyone wanting to take the time to look at her actual policies and compare them to the rest of the world, politically.

LOL. Bernie's crackpot version of socialism is nothing like Scandinavian style democratic socialism. They like free trade and low corporate taxes way too much for Bernie's standards.

 

Believe me, I would love to emulate Scandinavia. But that's not what Bernie is advocating for, even if he claims he is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the "Under God" part had been in all along I think your argument would hold more water. Problem is it was put in during the height of the communist scare in the mid-50s. I also think your assertion that it is demonized by the left and used as a weapon by the right is a little too black and white. There are plenty of liberal Christians and conservative atheists. Just look at you, you said it's essentially legalized fraud. I am pretty skeptical of organized religion and I'm on the left, but even I'm not that hard core Penn & Teller about it.

There are obviously exceptions to the rule, but in the political arena that's generally how it has played out and continues to play out. Christianity in particular is exploited and marginalized well beyond pure faith and spirituality, just as organized forms have done for centuries.

 

As an agnostic, I suppose I'm not the best judge of how offended one should be by a reference to god in a pledge. I just think the reason it's there isn't necessarily all that relevant. Makes for a fun talking point, I guess.

My preferences can beat up your preferences’ dad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its going to be so great. Just incredible. It will be the best healthcare bill you have ever seen and everyone will love it and it will solve all the problems in the world.

 

Trump is a complete moron.

You're acting like he's the one who's only working on the bill

 

Price, Pence, Ryan and a lot of house members are working on the bill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's sort of entertaining to watch him slowly realize being President isn't all signing executive orders and holding them up for a photo op.

 

The detail-oriented nuts and bolts of actual governing has got to be some sort of form of torture for him.

 

Perhaps, but it's not super hard to delegate as President. Hopefully for all of our sakes he's learning how to cope...delegation should not be a brand new skill for him, at least.

A forum for the end of the world.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're acting like he's the one who's only working on the bill

Price, Pence, Ryan and a lot of house members are working on the bill

No sh*t. And they already knew how complicated healthcare is... your orange buffoon savior had no clue. Which is true for most things he babbles on and on about.

**REPORTED CONDITIONS AND ANOMALIES ARE NOT MEANT TO IMPLY ANYTHING ON A REGIONAL LEVEL UNLESS SPECIFICALLY STATED**

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The bill is being written each day and they keep making changes. The real version will be done very soon, and it's going to be a good bill. It takes time to replace. In the first couple days he pretty much got rid of the individual mandate which pretty much killed Obamacare (even health care CEO's talked about how big that was and helpful) 

 

Yeah, this is a significant change. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

A forum for the end of the world.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jesse can post all the polls showing Trumps bad approval ratings but I can't post one poll showing positive numbers for the GOP?

I don't generally post poll numbers. Seems sort of futile these days. For every bad poll it seems like someone can just go to the biased website of their choice and find a good one, or vice versa. It seems kind of pointless.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't generally post poll numbers. Seems sort of futile these days. For every bad poll it seems like someone can just go to the biased website of their choice and find a good one, or vice versa. It seems kind of pointless.

 

No kidding. He must have been thinking of Tim.

A forum for the end of the world.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No kidding. He must have been thinking of Tim.

 

Yeah... I just randomly pick polls.   <_>

 

I look at the 538 rankings of all polls first.    I only cite highly ranked polls.   The Quinnipiac poll is very highly rated.  

**REPORTED CONDITIONS AND ANOMALIES ARE NOT MEANT TO IMPLY ANYTHING ON A REGIONAL LEVEL UNLESS SPECIFICALLY STATED**

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah... I just randomly pick polls. <_>

 

I look at the 538 rankings of all polls first. I only cite highly ranked polls. The Quinnipiac poll is very highly rated.

All those "highly rated" polls busted bigly in November. That rating system is as terrible as the polls they're trying to rate.

 

It's not as much about the sampling method (which is what the rating system highlights), but rather how they tune and homogenize their samples that's most important.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Enlighten me. Her voting record as a senator, and her record as Secretary of State, suggests otherwise.

 

I don't want links to stuff she said during the campaign. I want evidence of things she actually did while in office, before the campaign.

As expected, no response. Lmao.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All those "highly rated" polls busted bigly in November. That rating system is as terrible as the polls they're trying to rate.

 

It's not as much about the sampling method (which is what the rating system highlights), but rather how they tune and homogenize their samples that's most important.

 

At the state level there were definitely some failures. 

 

But on a national level... Hillary was ahead of Trump and that is exactly what happened.    

**REPORTED CONDITIONS AND ANOMALIES ARE NOT MEANT TO IMPLY ANYTHING ON A REGIONAL LEVEL UNLESS SPECIFICALLY STATED**

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are obviously exceptions to the rule, but in the political arena that's generally how it has played out and continues to play out. Christianity in particular is exploited and marginalized well beyond pure faith and spirituality, just as organized forms have done for centuries.

 

As an agnostic, I suppose I'm not the best judge of how offended one should be by a reference to god in a pledge. I just think the reason it's there isn't necessarily all that relevant. Makes for a fun talking point, I guess.

I am agnostic as well. So we're on the same page there.

 

I just don't see the point of any reference to god being in the pledge to our country's flag, especially when it wasn't even intended to be in there in the first place. Perhaps you don't see it as a big deal, but for many it stands as a symbol of unnecessary mixing of church and state, and even leaves the door open for further unnecessary mixing. I suppose if believing that the people taking offense are all idiots making mountains out of mole hills helps you feel better about your position then more power to you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Politics aside... John Oliver is hilarious.     Here is his take on ACA:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEGpriv2TAc

 

Near the end he talks about Obama over-promising and Republicans calling the the ACA shortcomings the greatest disaster ever.   Then cuts to Trump promising to cover everyone with his new healthcare plan and they will get everything they want.    Oliver says anything less than "everything" will now be deemed an total disaster for the Republicans... tick-tock motherf*ckers.     :lol:

**REPORTED CONDITIONS AND ANOMALIES ARE NOT MEANT TO IMPLY ANYTHING ON A REGIONAL LEVEL UNLESS SPECIFICALLY STATED**

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At the state level there were definitely some failures. 

 

But on a national level... Hillary was ahead of Trump and that is exactly what happened.  

 

You are absolutely right here. I always notice people stop responding to you and change the subject when there is an argument about polling and you make this point, so I just wanted to highlight it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am agnostic as well. So we're on the same page there.

 

I just don't see the point of any reference to god being in the pledge to our country's flag, especially when it wasn't even intended to be in there in the first place. Perhaps you don't see it as a big deal, but for many it stands as a symbol of unnecessary mixing of church and state, and even leaves the door open for further unnecessary mixing. I suppose if believing that the people taking offense are all idiots making mountains out of mole hills helps you feel better about your position then more power to you.

I disagree about its supposed mixing power. It's not as strong as March sun angles; and judging by your last sentence apparently the angles are making you a little cranky.

 

Unlike with your moron branding of members and declarations of sickening opinions, I don't think you're an idiot for having a different opinion.

My preferences can beat up your preferences’ dad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At the state level there were definitely some failures.

 

But on a national level... Hillary was ahead of Trump and that is exactly what happened.

Yes, but they were all off in generally the same direction. I believe most polls gave Hillary a 5-10 percent advantage in the last few weeks leading up, and she ended up taking the popular vote by what, 2 percent?

 

So it wasn't just random variation, there was a definite trend for the polls to be skewed in favor of Hillary.

A forum for the end of the world.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I disagree about its supposed mixing power. It's not as strong as March sun angles; and judging by your last sentence apparently the angles are making you a little cranky.

 

Unlike with your moron branding of members and declarations of sickening opinions, I don't think you're an idiot for having a different opinion.

 

Way to bring it back to weather! We haven't had a good old fashioned throw down about that for awhile. Such a simpler time. Now it's all politics.

 

I have never once believed that someone is an idiot for only having a different opinion than me, if that is what you are trying to imply. I have called people's intelligence into question for arriving at their opinion in a completely wrongheaded manner, or just because they were told to believe it by whatever form of media they consume, or that they have an insidious ulterior motive for packaging a particular "opinion" in a certain way,  but if someone has put sufficient thought and rationality into an opinion I would never think they were idiotic based solely on the fact that it differs from mine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...