Scott Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 Does anyone here know much about this record? There doesn't seem to be much information about it either online or anywhere else I have seen, other than the date and having it listed. The thing about Rogers Pass is that I can find no such weather station at the pass and the one that is fairly close to the pass and has the name Rogers Pass is actually quite mild, especially by Montana standards: http://www.wrcc.dri.edu/cgi-bin/cliMAIN.pl?mt7159 Although Rogers Pass supposedly recorded -70 on January 20, 1954, the next coldest reading I can find in the region is a much warmer -46. Although places like West Yellowstone or Hebgen Dam do have extreme winter temperatures at times, the area around Rogers Pass seems much warmer in winter and is surprising that it would hold the Montana (and Lower 48) records. Is there any other weather data available for Rogers Pass? Is it possible that the -70 reading isn't valid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 Does anyone here know much about this record? There doesn't seem to be much information about it either online or anywhere else I have seen, other than the date and having it listed. The thing about Rogers Pass is that I can find no such weather station at the pass and the one that is fairly close to the pass and has the name Rogers Pass is actually quite mild, especially by Montana standards: http://www.wrcc.dri.edu/cgi-bin/cliMAIN.pl?mt7159 Although Rogers Pass supposedly recorded -70 on January 20, 1954, the next coldest reading I can find in the region is a much warmer -46. Although places like West Yellowstone or Hebgen Dam do have extreme winter temperatures at times, the area around Rogers Pass seems much warmer in winter and is surprising that it would hold the Montana (and Lower 48) records. Is there any other weather data available for Rogers Pass? Is it possible that the -70 reading isn't valid? That record always seemed a bit suspect to me as well. That airmass was pretty remarkable if not short lived, but -70 is a bit of a stretch IMO. Helena hit -36, which was within 6F of its all-time record low, and Summit hit -53. Those are very impressive numbers that suggest that a reading in the -60 to -70 range was possible in an ideally situated cold-sink location somewhere in Montana. However, the location itself raises questions. Just how well was that station that recorded -70 sited? Its pretty telling that Rogers Pass 9NNE has never been below -46, although in a period of record that only extends to 1964. Exactly what was the documentation of that -70 reading? The equipment? The siting? It seems as though that reading was the product of a short-lived station, which may not have even qualified for official status under modern standards, had it been subjected to a formal review of the sort that the SCEC does today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow_wizard Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 That record always seemed a bit suspect to me as well. That airmass was pretty remarkable if not short lived, but -70 is a bit of a stretch IMO. Helena hit -36, which was within 6F of its all-time record low, and Summit hit -53. Those are very impressive numbers that suggest that a reading in the -60 to -70 range was possible in an ideally situated cold-sink location somewhere in Montana. However, the location itself raises questions. Just how well was that station that recorded -70 sited? Its pretty telling that Rogers Pass 9NNE has never been below -46, although in a period of record that only extends to 1964. Exactly what was the documentation of that -70 reading? The equipment? The siting? It seems as though that reading was the product of a short-lived station, which may not have even qualified for official status under modern standards, had it been subjected to a formal review of the sort that the SCEC does today. 9 miles in the West could have the same effect on cold potential as 90 miles in a flat area. You would have to think the thermometer was either located in a bowl (sink) or the reading is bogus. Quote Death To Warm Anomalies! Winter 2023-24 stats Total Snowfall = 1.0" Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1 Total Hail = 0.0 Total Ice = 0.2 Coldest Low = 13 Lows 32 or below = 45 Highs 32 or below = 3 Lows 20 or below = 3 Highs 40 or below = 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted March 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 It seems as though that reading was the product of a short-lived station Other than the -70 reading, I haven't been able to find any record of a station existing there. http://media2.trover.com/T/51cce81d0845d24b110000b6/fixedw_large_4x.jpg The sign at the pass itself says that the reading was taken at a nearby mining camp, but I haven't been able to find anything on the weather station there (if there was one). Maps show three historic mines in the general area. One of them is on Sunset Mountain and it wouldn't be -70 there. One is in Chambers Gulch, which also seems like an unlikely candidate. There is an old mind along the Blackfoot River at 5300 feet elevation. If the -70 really is genuine, maybe this is the location? A reading near the river might be possible, but I can't see it on a hill or at the pass. Still, by Montana standards, the area around Rogers Pass seems to have mild winters in comparison to other areas. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 Other than the -70 reading, I haven't been able to find any record of a station existing there. http://media2.trover.com/T/51cce81d0845d24b110000b6/fixedw_large_4x.jpg The sign at the pass itself says that the reading was taken at a nearby mining camp, but I haven't been able to find anything on the weather station there (if there was one). Maps show three historic mines in the general area. One of them is on Sunset Mountain and it wouldn't be -70 there. One is in Chambers Gulch, which also seems like an unlikely candidate. There is an old mind along the Blackfoot River at 5300 feet elevation. If the -70 really is genuine, maybe this is the location? A reading near the river might be possible, but I can't see it on a hill or at the pass. Still, by Montana standards, the area around Rogers Pass seems to have mild winters in comparison to other areas. That's good info. That reading would definitely not be considered official today. Its pretty amazing what used to pass for credible temp observations back in the old days. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Front Ranger Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 If this reading was indeed bogus, then the -66 recorded at Yellowstone National Park on 2/9/33 (both in WY and MT) would be the coldest temp on record in the continental U.S. Quote A forum for the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted March 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 If this reading was indeed bogus, then the -66 recorded at Yellowstone National Park on 2/9/33 (both in WY and MT) would be the coldest temp on record in the continental U.S. Assuming one discounts Peter Sinks of course. Anyway of interest, the -66 was actually recorded in Montana at the Riverside Ranger Station, near West Yellowstone, but it was very close to the Wyoming line. Because Yellowstone is mostly in Wyoming, the reading often gets credited to Wyoming, but it was actually just in Montana. The coldest temperature in Wyoming is actually -63 at Moran on February 9 1933, the same time the Riverside Ranger Station hit -66. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Front Ranger Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 Assuming one discounts Peter Sinks of course. Anyway of interest, the -66 was actually recorded in Montana at the Riverside Ranger Station, near West Yellowstone, but it was very close to the Wyoming line. Because Yellowstone is mostly in Wyoming, the reading often gets credited to Wyoming, but it was actually just in Montana. The coldest temperature in Wyoming is actually -63 at Moran on February 9 1933, the same time the Riverside Ranger Station hit -66. Ah, true. Why isn't that considered official again? Quote A forum for the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted March 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 Ah, true. Why isn't that considered official again? Most sources do consider the reading to be official, but it is sometimes controversial since it is in an unpopulated location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted May 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2017 Using the link in the hidden stations thread, here's some more about the Rogers Pass reading and station. http://www.wrcc.dri.edu/cgi-bin/cliMAIN.pl?mt7156 The station lasted just over three years between May 1 1953 and June 30 1956. The station was located at 47* 4" and 112* 22". After the -70 reading, the next coldest reading recorded at the station was -37, recorded the day before. During the three year period, the record low in February was -35 and the record low in December was -29. Other than the supposed -70, at least during the period of record, no temperatures dropped below the -30's. Also interesting is to compare the lowest readings at Helena for the same winter months. Lowest reading at Rogers Pass December 1953: +7January 1954: -70February 1954: +8 December 1954: -4January 1955: -1February 1955: -18 December 1955: -29January 1956: -17February 1956: -35 Lowest reading at Helena December 1953: +10January 1954: -36February 1954: +11 December 1954: -8January 1955: -13February 1955: -11 December 1955: -15January 1956: -25February 1956: -31 Other than the -70 reading supposedly recorded at Rogers Pass, the other low readings at Rogers Pass are fairly comparable to those of Helena. Other than the -70 reading, Rogers Pass isn't that cold of a location, especially by Montana standards. Here are the average lows for each month during the time period. Average Low reading at Rogers Pass December 1953: 17.8January 1954: 0.7 (3.1 if the -70 is excluded)February 1954: 23.7 December 1954: 17.1January 1955: 12.6February 1955: 5.4 December 1955: 6.2January 1956: 9.5February 1956: 8.8 Average Low reading at Helena December 1953: 22.1January 1954: 5.2February 1954: 25.9 December 1954: 12.9January 1955: 11.9February 1955: 9.8 December 1955: 8.9January 1956: 7.1February 1956: 7.5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted May 26, 2017 Report Share Posted May 26, 2017 I just looked through the daily records for that Rogers Pass station. Yeah, that -70 really sticks out. All of their other readings seem to be in line with other stations in western MT for that three year period, except the -70. In fact, a lot of their other readings seem too warm considering that this was supposed to be a cold sink location near the continental divide (one that's capable of hitting -70!). For instance, why would they only drop to -27 on 3/25/1955 when even Helena hit -30 on that morning? Helena is certainly not a cold spot by western MT standards, and this was a record-breaking late season cold wave that dropped the nearby Summit station to -39. And we have to somehow reconcile this data with 1/20/1954...just doesn't add up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted May 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 I just looked through the daily records for that Rogers Pass station. Yeah, that -70 really sticks out. All of their other readings seem to be in line with other stations in western MT for that three year period, except the -70. In fact, a lot of their other readings seem too warm considering that this was supposed to be a cold sink location near the continental divide (one that's capable of hitting -70!). For instance, why would they only drop to -27 on 3/25/1955 when even Helena hit -30 on that morning? Helena is certainly not a cold spot by western MT standards, and this was a record-breaking late season cold wave that dropped the nearby Summit station to -39. And we have to somehow reconcile this data with 1/20/1954...just doesn't add up. The -70 doesn't seem plausible for all of the reasons above, but the -27 at Rogers Pass vs the -30 in Helena might be. In Colorado, there are cold air sinks near the Continental Divide here as well. Usually they are colder than the other valleys, but if there is even a slight breeze near the Continental Divide, they will sometimes end up warmer. Occasionally the cold air masses are shallow and don't reach the upper elevations. This is more common east of the Divide, but happens occasionally on the west side too. This doesn't seem to be the case here though since Summit is at a similar elevation than Rogers Pass and hit -39. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 The -70 doesn't seem plausible for all of the reasons above, but the -27 at Rogers Pass vs the -30 in Helena might be. In Colorado, there are cold air sinks near the Continental Divide here as well. Usually they are colder than the other valleys, but if there is even a slight breeze near the Continental Divide, they will sometimes end up warmer. Occasionally the cold air masses are shallow and don't reach the upper elevations. This is more common east of the Divide, but happens occasionally on the west side too. This doesn't seem to be the case here though since Summit is at a similar elevation than Rogers Pass and hit -39. I don't doubt it. Its just a little strange that this Rogers Pass station acted like a non-cold spot for a number of the cold waves during its three-year duration. They did, however, hit -34 in November 1955, -35 in mid-February 1956, and also 0 in May 1954. Those are certainly cold spot-type numbers. Maybe it does have to do with local wind conditions at night during any given cold wave? I would have been curious to see what this station would have accomplished in 1959 had it still existed (-55 at Summit in January, -53 at Lincoln RS in November). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik1974 Posted September 27, 2017 Report Share Posted September 27, 2017 I wonder if the 'Rogers Pass' and the 'Lincoln 14 NE' could very well be the same station with a different name?? Rogers Pass ran for a few years (1953-56) and then Lincoln 14NE from about 1957-62 or so. The Lincoln 14NE seems colder than the Lincoln RS to the west so maybe it could qualify as a cold spot. Also, if a station could pull -53 in November, then -70 in January is definitely possible. Now I am starting to question both readings, but the -53 in November definitely seems credible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted September 27, 2017 Report Share Posted September 27, 2017 I wonder if the 'Rogers Pass' and the 'Lincoln 14 NE' could very well be the same station with a different name?? Rogers Pass ran for a few years (1953-56) and then Lincoln 14NE from about 1957-62 or so. The Lincoln 14NE seems colder than the Lincoln RS to the west so maybe it could qualify as a cold spot. Also, if a station could pull -53 in November, then -70 in January is definitely possible. Now I am starting to question both readings, but the -53 in November definitely seems credible. They're pretty close to each other, but they're different stations. Their locations are (were) a few miles apart on Highway 200. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik1974 Posted April 8, 2018 Report Share Posted April 8, 2018 If the -70 at Rogers Pass is excluded, then the next 10 lowest credible January readings for the Lower 48 are: -60 Jan. 1, 1979 Maybell, Colo. -60 Jan. 12, 1963 West Yellowstone, Mont. -60 Jan. 18, 1943 Island Park, Ida. -59 Jan. 20, 1954 Thoeny, Mont. -58 Jan. 18, 1943 West Yellowstone, Mont. -58 Jan. 18, 1943 Lamar RS, Wyo. -58 Jan. 27, 1916 Hingham, Mont. -57 Jan. 21, 1996 Embarrass, Minn. -57 Jan. 21, 1996 Tower, Minn. -57 Jan. 27, 1916 Havre, Mont. -57 Jan. 12, 1916 Camp Crook, SD For February, here are the 10 coldest credible temps: -66 Feb. 9, 1933 West Yellowstone, Mont. -63 Feb. 9, 1933 Moran, Wyo. -62 Feb. 9, 1981 Darwin Ranch, Wyo. -61 Feb. 1, 1985 Maybell, Colo. -61 Feb. 7, 1899 Fort Logan, Mont. -60 Feb. 2, 1996 Tower, Minn. -60 Feb. 1, 1985 Taylor Park, Colo. -60 Feb. 1, 1951 Taylor Park, Colo. -60 Feb. 15, 1936 Parshall, ND -60 Feb. 8, 1929 Border, Wyo. Note there are at least 10 readings of 60 below in February as opposed to only 3 in January in the Lower 48, which makes the supposed -70 at Rogers Pass stand out even more. Therefore, I highly doubt that this a credible reading and its should probably be scrubbed from the books. The -53 in November at Lincoln 14NE comes into question as well, though it is at least backed up by a few -45 and -47 readings at Lincoln RS and Ovando. - 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted April 8, 2018 Report Share Posted April 8, 2018 Great lists. I don't see any problems at first glance anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted April 8, 2018 Report Share Posted April 8, 2018 Some other readings: -58 at Rudyard, MT on 1/28/1916-58 at Wilder, MT on 1/12/1916-57 at Frazer, MT on 1/20/1954-57 at Wolf Point, MT on 1/26/1950-57 at Chester, MT on 1/25/1950-57 at West Yellowstone, MT on 1/17/1930 -60 at Hebgen Dam, MT on 2/12/1905 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverFallsAndrew Posted April 8, 2018 Report Share Posted April 8, 2018 That February 1933 airmass was a beast. Oregon s all time low of -54 was achieved with that one. Quote Snowfall Precip 2022-23: 95.0" 2022-23: 17.39" 2021-22: 52.6" 2021-22: 91.46" 2020-21: 12.0" 2020-21: 71.59" 2019-20: 23.5" 2019-20: 58.54" 2018-19: 63.5" 2018-19: 66.33" 2017-18: 30.3" 2017-18: 59.83" 2016-17: 49.2" 2016-17: 97.58" 2015-16: 11.75" 2015-16: 68.67" 2014-15: 3.5" 2013-14: 11.75" 2013-14: 62.30 2012-13: 16.75" 2012-13: 78.45 2011-12: 98.5" 2011-12: 92.67" It's always sunny at Winters Hill! Fighting the good fight against weather evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted April 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2018 If the -70 at Rogers Pass is excluded, then the next 10 lowest credible January readings for the Lower 48 are:Peter Sinks and Middle Sinks in Utah have also dropped below -60 on several occasions in January (and once in February), but of course those places aren't populated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted April 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2018 That February 1933 airmass was a beast. Oregon s all time low of -54 was achieved with that one.For sure. -30 in Salt Lake City was pretty impressive as well. No other cold snap has come close. Also interesting was that February 1933 was the coldest on record in much of the West while it was the warmest on record in much of the East. The next year was the opposite. February 1934 was the warmest on record in much of the West and the coldest on record in much of the East. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaraptor Posted November 22, 2020 Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00431672.1954.9930310?journalCode=vwws20& Here's a contemporary article. This article states that the reading was taken in a saucer-shaped depression on the west slope of Rogers Pass (the road over Rogers Pass runs north-south, not west-east) and there was several feet of snow on the ground - so a Peter Sinks type situation. The article says the thermometer that morning read -68ºF (with 1-2 degree error) but the corrected and accepted figure was -69.7ºF, which at some point got rounded to an even and much more satisfying -70ºF. The only thing to do now is try to locate where exactly that saucer-shaped depression is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link Posted November 24, 2020 Report Share Posted November 24, 2020 Is this the same for record lows in the summer time for the WV of Oregon? A lot of our record lows are in the low to mid 30s and I can't imagine the setup that would cause that!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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