Polite Politics

[roadtonowhere08]

10 minutes ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

I don’t think distance from the center necessarily correlates from intelligence or knowledge. I’ve met plenty of staggeringly misinformed centrists.

I don't know, it seems to follow pretty well in my experience.  This assumes you take the general average of all political beliefs rather than being a centrist on every single issue.  YMMV 

[Andie]

Have you seen my plane?  
U.S. officials have ordered a 2-day stand down for all military aviation inside as well as outside the United States after an F-35B jet went missing in South Carolina.

This keeps getting more bizarre.

According to ABC News, "no units are allowed to fly" until there is a discussion for two days about "safety measures and procedures."

The debris of the crashed fighter was found in South Carolina. 
I’d love to be there for the debriefing.  

[SilverFallsAndrew]

9 hours ago, roadtonowhere08 said:

I don't know, it seems to follow pretty well in my experience.  This assumes you take the general average of all political beliefs rather than being a centrist on every single issue.  YMMV 

Where does this leave a frothing leftist like yourself? 

[Iceresistance]

Check this out, I am sure that @Anti Marine Layer would want to read this.

Systemic Racism in AI: How Algorithms Replicate White Supremacy and Injustice (msn.com)

[Rubus Leucodermis]

18 minutes ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

Where does this leave a frothing leftist like yourself? 

If he’s “frothing,” then I must be gaseous.

[Iceresistance]

Trump had NOTHING to do with the UAW!

UAW Threatens to Strike at More Ford, GM Plants. And It Takes Shots At Trump. (msn.com)

[Chewbacca Defense]

14 hours ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

Very few people in the USA advocate that. I don’t, and one big reason is the one you just gave.

Such a thing is rare outside of the few remaining old-style authoritarian communist regimes. Most Western societies have some mix of public and private sector to provide universal health care.

Here in Canada, the basic health insurance is run by the public sector. The providers are still private businesses (some of them nonprofits) that bill insurers for services rendered. Also, health insurance above and beyond the basic level is private sector.

Probably the closest thing to what you describe is the National Health Service in the UK, and even that is run by various local trusts that act more like private, non-profit organizations (with community input provisions, and subject to regulation by Parliament) than direct arms of the government.

And no wonder. You think socialists (and yes, the NHS was created by a socialist government, and the Canadian system of universal insurance was pioneered by one) are unaware of the problem of the government getting unlimited power if it owns just about everything? With the exception of hardline commies, who wave that off as a bourgeois concern, think again.

Even the UK has the option to buy additional private insurance which allows for more healthcare options, but at the end of the day, everyone at least has access to some level of healthcare.  And I know that is terrible, the nerve of these countries providing healthcare for all. 

Don't worry Trump will make it better than any other healthcare plan.  I mean, look at all the amazing things he already did with his healthcare plan that replaced Obamacare...its terrific....its great!

 

oh wait.....

 

 

[hawkstwelve]

This is actually an area where I agree with liberals a bit more - healthcare.

Something needs to be done to reign in healthcare costs. From insurance premiums and deductibles to ER visits and everything in between, it's evident that our healthcare system is broken. I'm not sure if "universal healthcare" is the answer or not (and as someone who believes in extremely limited government, I doubt it'd be the fix to all our problems) but I'd be willing to give just about anything a try at this point. Our healthcare system is absolutely horrible.

[roadtonowhere08]

1 hour ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

Where does this leave a frothing leftist like yourself? 

Reading comprehension was never your strong suit, was it?

[SilverFallsAndrew]

1 hour ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

If he’s “frothing,” then I must be gaseous.

You are extremely reasonably by comparison. 

[SilverFallsAndrew]

14 minutes ago, hawkstwelve said:

This is actually an area where I agree with liberals a bit more - healthcare.

Something needs to be done to reign in healthcare costs. From insurance premiums and deductibles to ER visits and everything in between, it's evident that our healthcare system is broken. I'm not sure if "universal healthcare" is the answer or not (and as someone who believes in extremely limited government, I doubt it'd be the fix to all our problems) but I'd be willing to give just about anything a try at this point. Our healthcare system is absolutely horrible.

Agreed. Not only is our system broken, our country is extremely unhealthy with obesity at sky high levels and a majority of the population hooked on prescription drugs. 

I'm 39 years old an one of the few people I know my age who isn't on some kind of pill and/or morbidly obese. 

Edited September 19 by SilverFallsAndrew

[Iceresistance]

5 minutes ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

Agreed. Not only is our system broken, our country is extremely unhealthy with obesity at sky high levels and a majority of the population hooked on prescription drugs. 

I'm 39 years old an one of the few people I know my age who isn't on some kind of pill and/or morbidly obese. 

I once heard from my Sociology classes that there are culture collisions on how your body should look like.

The BMI index is severely flawed, even saw studies that show people that are lower on the BMI have more heart problems compared to those classified as "Overweight" on the BMI.

[Rubus Leucodermis]

16 minutes ago, hawkstwelve said:

This is actually an area where I agree with liberals a bit more - healthcare.

Something needs to be done to reign in healthcare costs. From insurance premiums and deductibles to ER visits and everything in between, it's evident that our healthcare system is broken. I'm not sure if "universal healthcare" is the answer or not (and as someone who believes in extremely limited government, I doubt it'd be the fix to all our problems) but I'd be willing to give just about anything a try at this point. Our healthcare system is absolutely horrible.

How bad cost control is in the USA was underscored to me when I moved to Canada.

Unlike that Simpsons cartoon, Canada doesn’t simply give away “free” healthcare to any and all comers. You have to qualify for it (tourists visiting for a short time do not), and even then there is a 90-day waiting period. During my waiting period I had to pay for a private health insurance policy completely out of my own pocket. My employer was quite apologetic about it.

The kicker is that the cost of doing so (again, completely out of my own pocket) was way under what I would have paid for a subsidized Obamacare plan under the exchange in the USA, and with a much lower deductible. I was, in other words, better off falling through the cracks of the Canadian system than being eligible for coverage in the USA.

That said, no system is perfect. One of the Canadian system’s flaws is that it does not pay general practitioners enough. So new doctors instead tend to become specialists, or to work for drop-in urgent care clinics that get better reimbursement rates. Result is years-long wait lists to get a GP. Many people, myself included, do not have a GP and must go to urgent care for everything.

[Anti Marine Layer]

18 minutes ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

Agreed. Not only is our system broken, our country is extremely unhealthy with obesity at sky high levels and a majority of the population hooked on prescription drugs. 

I'm 39 years old an one of the few people I know my age who isn't on some kind of pill and/or morbidly obese. 

I'm 45 and thin and I eat a lot, but mostly organic food.

[SilverFallsAndrew]

https://www.npr.org/2022/10/12/1128335563/maternity-care-deserts-march-of-dimes-report

We were lucky that Silverton hospital still has a functioning maternity unit. Some rural folx are not so fortunate. 

[Rubus Leucodermis]

17 minutes ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

Agreed. Not only is our system broken, our country is extremely unhealthy with obesity at sky high levels and a majority of the population hooked on prescription drugs.

Yeah, something definitely needs to be done about the obesity epidemic in the USA.

What to do is the question. It’s not like there’s anyone forcing people at gunpoint to consume those extra calories. In many cases, it is a matter of free choice. Yes, there are things like food deserts in poor areas, and this needs addressing, but you can see lots of obese individuals living in areas well-served by grocery stores.

That points to propaganda as a logical solution: persuade people to act differently. Oh, it won’t be called propaganda by those advocating doing it, but make no mistake, that’s what it will be. (And that won’t make it evil or wrong. “Propaganda” has a bad name. but it can be used for good. But try selling that against the inevitable pushback that will emerge. We just saw — and are still seeing — what happened with vaccination during a pandemic.)

[SilverFallsAndrew]

1 minute ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

Yeah, something definitely needs to be done about the obesity epidemic in the USA.

What to do is the question. It’s not like there’s anyone forcing people at gunpoint to consume those extra calories. In many cases, it is a matter of free choice. Yes, there are things like food deserts in poor areas, and this needs addressing, but you can see lots of obese individuals living in areas well-served by grocery stores.

That points to propaganda as a logical solution: persuade people to act differently. Oh, it won’t be called propaganda by those advocating doing it, but make no mistake, that’s what it will be. (And that won’t make it evil or wrong. “Propaganda” has a bad name. but it can be used for good. But try selling that against the inevitable pushback that will emerge. We just saw — and are still seeing — what happened with vaccination during a pandemic.)

Interestingly obesity rates are higher among those with lower income levels. The most common reason given is higher quality/healthier food is more expensive. I think that is a good partial explanation. 

[Rubus Leucodermis]

4 minutes ago, Anti Marine Layer said:

I'm 45 and thin and I eat a lot, but mostly organic food.

I turned 60 this year and don’t watch my eating that closely, but I do eat organic and vegetarian, and try to get around as much as possible by walking or bicycle. I have a few extra pounds, but am not obese. I have friends whose weight and overall lack of fitness makes it impossible to do what I just did last weekend and scramble up a mountain.

[Rubus Leucodermis]

1 minute ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

Interestingly obesity rates are higher among those with lower income levels. The most common reason given is higher quality/healthier food is more expensive. I think that is a good partial explanation. 

In that case, maybe taxes and subsidies? Make junk food more expensive and healthy food cheaper. Of course, this will make some scream about “muh free market!” and “muh social engineering!”

[SilverFallsAndrew]

Just now, Rubus Leucodermis said:

I turned 60 this year and don’t watch my eating that closely, but I do eat organic and vegetarian, and try to get around as much as possible by walking or bicycle. I have a few extra pounds, but am not obese. I have friends whose weight and overall lack of fitness makes it impossible to do what I just did last weekend and scramble up a mountain.

A few extra pounds is totally fine, you can be relatively healthy and have a little belly or some love handles. But if you are 5'10" 350lbs, at some point its going to catch up to you and most likely sooner rather than later. 

It's also amazing how many people literally never exercise. I went on a hike once with a co-worker who was about 50, and not overweight at all. It was an easy 3 mile round trip hike, with minimal elevation gain, but I thought she was literally going to drop right on the trail. 

[SilverFallsAndrew]

Just now, Rubus Leucodermis said:

In that case, maybe taxes and subsidies? Make junk food more expensive and healthy food cheaper. Of course, this will make some scream about “muh free market!” and “muh social engineering!”

I don't think people should be allowed to buy candy, soda, chips, and other junk food with their food stamp cards. 

[Chewbacca Defense]

3 minutes ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

https://www.npr.org/2022/10/12/1128335563/maternity-care-deserts-march-of-dimes-report

We were lucky that Silverton hospital still has a functioning maternity unit. Some rural folx are not so fortunate. 

I have a family member who is a director at a major hospital in Georgia.  Several years ago we had a discussion about the cost of healthcare.  This was at a time when independent cardiology clinics were either closing up shop or being absorbed by large medical groups.  He told me that cardiology and OB/GYN were the 2 fields of medicine that were the worst off financially.  He said that was because that a majority of their patients relied on medicare/medicaid and the reimbursement rates were beyond awful.  He said in Atlanta the independent cardiology and OB/GYN clinics were running to their nearest hospital group and begging to be bought out.

 

We got on the topic because my wife was working for a cardiology clinic that was in the process of being bought out because it had gotten to the point the doctors (who were also the owners) took massive pay cuts so they could afford to pay their staff.  I think they basically only took what they needed to cover living expenses.  With the exception of one doctor, they all drove very modest cars....Subarus, Toyotas, etc.  The one doctor was a world renowned heart surgeon and traveled all over the world teaching an advanced technique that he helped pioneer, and I think he drove a newer Benz or BMW.  As a contrast, the orthopedic surgeons upstairs from my wife were still operating as an independent clinic and all drove high dollar European cars.

[Rubus Leucodermis]

4 minutes ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

It's also amazing how many people literally never exercise. I went on a hike once with a co-worker who was about 50, and not overweight at all. It was an easy 3 mile round trip hike, with minimal elevation gain, but I thought she was literally going to drop right on the trail. 

When I lived on Bainbridge, I led some guys (mostly in their 20’s and early 30’s) on what I thought was an easy bike ride. I was in my mid-50’s. They thought it was a death ride, and talked about it as such afterwards. (Yes, hills were involved. Bainbridge is hilly. But the distance wasn’t that great.) It was one of the experiences that made me realize the generally poor state of physical fitness in the USA.

[Anti Marine Layer]

20 minutes ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

When I lived on Bainbridge, I led some guys (mostly in their 20’s and early 30’s) on what I thought was an easy bike ride. I was in my mid-50’s. They thought it was a death ride, and talked about it as such afterwards. (Yes, hills were involved. Bainbridge is hilly. But the distance wasn’t that great.) It was one of the experiences that made me realize the generally poor state of physical fitness in the USA.

Some people might abuse universal healthcare by living however they want, even if it's bad for their health. This of course increases waiting times for certain procedures, which is one of the main complaints about some single payer systems. I've also heard some of them must ration and they will refuse obese people or unvaccinated people.

Same goes with welfare. It's a good thing until people abuse it and live off it rather than trying to better themselves.

[SilverFallsAndrew]

22 minutes ago, Anti Marine Layer said:

Some people might abuse universal healthcare by living however they want, even if it's bad for their health. This of course increases waiting times for certain procedures, which is one of the main complaints about some single payer systems. I've also heard some of them must ration and they will refuse obese people or unvaccinated people.

Same goes with welfare. It's a good thing until people abuse it and live off it rather than trying to better themselves.

I think people are already doing that. The demographic who is generally the most unhealthy is already on the government dole. 

[Rubus Leucodermis]

20 minutes ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

I think people are already doing that. The demographic who is generally the most unhealthy is already on the government dole. 

But how much of this is due to personal choice, and how much of it is just the baleful effects of not having access to much money?

I know plenty of obese individuals who are not on government assistance. Some are quite affluent.

Targeting just the poor obese is an incomplete solution.

[Iceresistance]

13 minutes ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

But how much of this is due to personal choice, and how much of it is just the baleful effects of not having access to much money?

I know plenty of obese individuals who are not on government assistance. Some are quite affluent.

Targeting just the poor obese is an incomplete solution.

Also, culture is a factor. I once read that different cultures have different desires for body shapes.

[Rubus Leucodermis]

25 minutes ago, Iceresistance said:

Also, culture is a factor. I once read that different cultures have different desires for body shapes.

Many Third World cultures do.

In large parts of the world, having access to enough food to become obese is something that traditionally only a privileged few have had. For most individuals throughout most of human history, having insufficient access to calories (i.e. hunger) has been much more of an issue than obesity. So it is logical that being obese can become a status symbol.

It wasn’t all that long ago that obesity was a status symbol in the West, as a matter of fact. For pretty much the same reason. Widespread access to as much food as you can eat is a relatively new thing everyplace.

In fact, pigging out and blimping up makes evolutionary sense: if access to food is unreliable, and food preservation technology has not been invented yet, storing calories as body fat in anticipation of lean times ahead is only logical. Calorie storage is why animals evolved fat cells, after all.

[Anti Marine Layer]

40 minutes ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

Many Third World cultures do.

In large parts of the world, having access to enough food to become obese is something that traditionally only a privileged few have had. For most individuals throughout most of human history, having insufficient access to calories (i.e. hunger) has been much more of an issue than obesity. So it is logical that being obese can become a status symbol.

It wasn’t all that long ago that obesity was a status symbol in the West, as a matter of fact. For pretty much the same reason. Widespread access to as much food as you can eat is a relatively new thing everyplace.

In fact, pigging out and blimping up makes evolutionary sense: if access to food is unreliable, and food preservation technology has not been invented yet, storing calories as body fat in anticipation of lean times ahead is only logical. Calorie storage is why animals evolved fat cells, after all.

What about the obese bikini models?

[SnarkyGoblin]

4 hours ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

How bad cost control is in the USA was underscored to me when I moved to Canada.

Unlike that Simpsons cartoon, Canada doesn’t simply give away “free” healthcare to any and all comers. You have to qualify for it (tourists visiting for a short time do not), and even then there is a 90-day waiting period. During my waiting period I had to pay for a private health insurance policy completely out of my own pocket. My employer was quite apologetic about it.

The kicker is that the cost of doing so (again, completely out of my own pocket) was way under what I would have paid for a subsidized Obamacare plan under the exchange in the USA, and with a much lower deductible. I was, in other words, better off falling through the cracks of the Canadian system than being eligible for coverage in the USA.

That said, no system is perfect. One of the Canadian system’s flaws is that it does not pay general practitioners enough. So new doctors instead tend to become specialists, or to work for drop-in urgent care clinics that get better reimbursement rates. Result is years-long wait lists to get a GP. Many people, myself included, do not have a GP and must go to urgent care for everything.

Is there a percentage of tax that's taken out to pay for everyone's care?  Curious how it compares to medicare - the thing we can't even begin to use until we're 62 in the US.

[Rubus Leucodermis]

9 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

Is there a percentage of tax that's taken out to pay for everyone's care?  Curious how it compares to medicare - the thing we can't even begin to use until we're 62 in the US.

Taxes pay for it. There is no special health care tax that I am aware of. Canadian income and sales taxes are generally higher than US ones, and Canada has a national sales tax as well as provincial ones. Funding universal health care is a big part of the reason why taxes are higher here. Also why I don’t like calling it “free;” if you’re paying taxes for it, it’s not really free.

It’s also a lot harder to sue doctors for malpractice here. Which sort of makes sense: part of the reason for it being easier to sue and get big compensation in the USA is that if your health was ruined by malpractice, you need a big compensation to pay for your ongoing medical care.

Still a big net win, though: per capita health care spending is lower here, and medical bankruptcies are basically unknown.

[SilverFallsAndrew]

4 hours ago, Anti Marine Layer said:

What about the obese bikini models?

Lizzo! 

[SilverFallsAndrew]

7 hours ago, Iceresistance said:

Also, culture is a factor. I once read that different cultures have different desires for body shapes.

I’m not gonna lie, I’m more attracted to bigger women than women who are rail thin. I’ve never not had an amazing time with a bigger lady… and I should probably stop now…

If you ever need any help/advice with the ladies just let me know. 

Edited September 20 by SilverFallsAndrew

[hawkstwelve]

Anyways...

• Four times as many Americans have unfavorable views of both parties today than they did in 2002
• Trust in the government "most of the time" sits at 16%, a 70-year low
• 87% of Republicans and 85% of Democrats agreed with the idea that politicians in both parties are more focused on fighting each other than solving problems

Politicians suck and our government is corrupt - finally something we can all agree with!

Also, because I will always beat this drum...

• 87% of Americans want term limits and 79% support age limits

I mean, come on. We all need to make this happen somehow.

https://www.axios.com/2023/09/19/poll-us-political-system-crisis-trust-unfavorable-pew

[SilverFallsAndrew]

1 hour ago, hawkstwelve said:

Anyways...

• Four times as many Americans have unfavorable views of both parties today than they did in 2002
• Trust in the government "most of the time" sits at 16%, a 70-year low
• 87% of Republicans and 85% of Democrats agreed with the idea that politicians in both parties are more focused on fighting each other than solving problems

Politicians suck and our government is corrupt - finally something we can all agree with!

Also, because I will always beat this drum...

• 87% of Americans want term limits and 79% support age limits

I mean, come on. We all need to make this happen somehow.

https://www.axios.com/2023/09/19/poll-us-political-system-crisis-trust-unfavorable-pew

Would you vote for a Manchin/Huntsman ticket?!

[hawkstwelve]

42 minutes ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

Would you vote for a Manchin/Huntsman ticket?!

Honestly if it's going to be Trump v. Biden, yeah, I would seriously consider it. And I would hope some of the other 28% of people that hate both parties would do the same.

There's no way we can move past a two party system if people aren't willing to not vote for one of the two parties. If it's Trump v. Biden next year, there'll be no better time to start that trend.

[SilverFallsAndrew]

20 minutes ago, hawkstwelve said:

Honestly if it's going to be Trump v. Biden, yeah, I would seriously consider it. And I would hope some of the other 28% of people that hate both parties would do the same.

There's no way we can move past a two party system if people aren't willing to not vote for one of the two parties. If it's Trump v. Biden next year, there'll be no better time to start that trend.

I’d consider it too. 

[hawkstwelve]

With fear of getting too poll heavy, here's another one...

• 48% of voters support the Biden impeachment inquiry. That comprises of 36% Democrats, 63% Republicans, ~50% of Independents
• At the time of Trump's first impeachment proceedings, only 37% of voters supported it with half saying they didn't 

So more people support looking into Biden's impeachment than they did looking Trump's. Ain't that something.

https://www.axios.com/2023/09/19/biden-impeachment-voter-support-poll

[SnarkyGoblin]

5 minutes ago, hawkstwelve said:

With fear of getting too poll heavy, here's another one...

• 48% of voters support the Biden impeachment inquiry. That comprises of 36% Democrats, 63% Republicans, ~50% of Independents
• At the time of Trump's first impeachment proceedings, only 37% of voters supported it with half saying they didn't 

So more people support looking into Biden's impeachment than they did looking Trump's. Ain't that something.

https://www.axios.com/2023/09/19/biden-impeachment-voter-support-poll

Messaging, regardless of how dumb it is, has always been a GOP strong-suit.

That impeachment genie isn't going back into the bottle after this one.  Unreal an actual hearing is taking place. The new bar has been set.

[SilverFallsAndrew]

26 minutes ago, hawkstwelve said:

With fear of getting too poll heavy, here's another one...

• 48% of voters support the Biden impeachment inquiry. That comprises of 36% Democrats, 63% Republicans, ~50% of Independents
• At the time of Trump's first impeachment proceedings, only 37% of voters supported it with half saying they didn't 

So more people support looking into Biden's impeachment than they did looking Trump's. Ain't that something.

https://www.axios.com/2023/09/19/biden-impeachment-voter-support-poll

That’s kind of wild. No way this guy is on the ballot next November. 

[SilverFallsAndrew]

15 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

Messaging, regardless of how dumb it is, has always been a GOP strong-suit.

That impeachment genie isn't going back into the bottle after this one.  Unreal an actual hearing is taking place. The new bar has been set.

Well the only way the house can get documents is through the inquiry. At the end of the day the public has a right to know and this is much more legitimate than the Trump impeachment which was based on a phone call in which Trump was pressuring the leader of a very very corrupt country to come clean about Bidens corruption. It’s interesting that Trump was essentially impeached in order to cover up Biden and the democrats corruption. 

[Deweydog]

Getting to the point where the summer of 2020 has about been erased from history. Didn’t take long!

https://komonews.com/news/politics/seattle-crisis-city-council-drug-possession-codify-legislation-state-law-previously-rejected-fentanyl-opioid-open-use-mayor-bruce-harrell-king-county-public-health-washington#

[Iceresistance]

2020 was cursed in everything

[hawkstwelve]

Ya know what's funny about it all - it's a classic case of the boy who cried wolf. Time and time and time again for four years we heard the sky was falling with Trump. Russia, Avenatti, Stormy, Ukraine, Cohen, Mueller... The list goes on. Every day was supposed to be Trump's downfall after he did whatever horrible thing they wanted to pin on him that day. Every day was a new "scandal".

Now, when you have legitimate legal issues and an actual chance to stop this guy, you've made everyone so numb to it that nobody gives a rats ass. Everyone looks at each other and goes, "here we go again" instead of taking the accusations with the heft they deserve. 

Democrats overplayed their hand way too early and are now paying the price.

[SnarkyGoblin]

What actual evidence of corruption is there, guys?

Does a whistleblower immediately warrant an impeachment inquiry by the house?

There were literally tapes of trump using his power of prez to personally get something significant and y'all thought he didn't deserve impeachment. 

And then some of you have the nerve blaming the Dems for it all. Trump is the leader you deserve.

[Iceresistance]

$7 Gas is returning

[Iceresistance]

It only works in small towns, not huge cities

Socialist grocery stores won’t stop Chicago crime (msn.com)

[hawkstwelve]

30 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

What actual evidence of corruption is there, guys?

Does a whistleblower immediately warrant an impeachment inquiry by the house?

There were literally tapes of trump using his power of prez to personally get something significant and y'all thought he didn't deserve impeachment. 

And then some of you have the nerve blaming the Dems for it all. Trump is the leader you deserve.

Just to be clear - I'm not blaming Democrats for Trump's behavior directly. My point was moreso the American public would probably be more receptive to the charges and quicker to drop Trump if the Democrats hadn't made him become a daily pariah during his administration. If they would have played their hand closer to their chest and waited for the right moment (which would have come along organically anyways because Trump's an idiot) instead of breathlessly hyping every little thing he did, the political landscape would probably look different heading into next year with these indictments on the plate. Instead, Trump can continue to play the victim card and a large segment of the population even beyond MAGA believes him. 

[Iceresistance]

18 minutes ago, hawkstwelve said:

Just to be clear - I'm not blaming Democrats for Trump's behavior directly. My point was moreso the American public would probably be more receptive to the charges and quicker to drop Trump if the Democrats hadn't made him become a daily pariah during his administration. If they would have played their hand closer to their chest and waited for the right moment (which would have come along organically anyways because Trump's an idiot) instead of breathlessly hyping every little thing he did, the political landscape would probably look different heading into next year with these indictments on the plate. Instead, Trump can continue to play the victim card and a large segment of the population even beyond MAGA believes him. 

Also, the constant slapping of indictments occurring after his declaration to run as POTUS for 2024 is not coincidental.

Politically motivated indictments will make the president who got slapped with it more like a victim and likely to be reelected as the constant mention of indictments and J6 will get old (or someone else instead of Trump gets the nominee and those tactics are completely useless). The first indictment is just plain useless as it is NOT a crime to do hush payments!

[Iceresistance]

DNC in Panic Mode? Trump Seeing Levels of Minority Support No Republican in 50 Years Has Reached (msn.com)

 

Remember that Trump had little support of them back in 2016 and 2020!