December 2019 Weather Discussion for the PNW

[Deweydog]

Don’t lump us in with those inland Northeast and New England crybabies. I average a measly 20”/yr and would be satisfied with anything over 12”. We’ve only had one brief snow shower so far this season, and that was back in early November (might see a little more tomorrow but barely conversational).

Humidity.

[Phil]

There is a trade off. Trust me.

The humidity tax.

[Guest CulverJosh]

Don’t lump us in with those inland Northeast and New England crybabies. I average a measly 20”/yr and would be satisfied with anything over 12”. We’ve only had one brief snow shower so far this season, and that was back in early November (might see a little more tomorrow but barely conversational).

My mom averages 152” a year in western NY. She cries whenever it snows. She hates it.

[Phil]

He tries to wow with these big words. I used to have a friend that did this. He was insecure and wanted my approval he was smart. I told him I will figure it out without all the strange words.

You’re adorable.

 

“Big words” are more precise and shorten paragraphs. And I’m using a smartphone to type. Simple, really.

[Guest CulverJosh]

You’re adorable.

Deleted. Not worth my time.

[Timmy Supercell]

My mom averages 152” a year in western NY. She cries whenever it snows. She hates it.

 

omg  there has only been one winter we broke 100" in a period of 130 years.

[Guest CulverJosh]

omg there has only been one winter we broke 100" in a period of 130 years.

Good old chatauqua county off of Lake Erie. Amazing snowbelt there. Helps they rise 1000’-2000’ in the area very near to the lake.

[Omegaraptor]

I envy the people on the East Coast. They don't have to practically beg for active weather every year because it's practically guaranteed. I came across an easterner who was complaining about getting "only" 49 inches of snow last year. I about wanted to scream.

 

The only thing the east coast really has over the west is thunderstorms IMO.

 

If all you want is snow, then mountain towns across the western US will give you all the snow you want, with far bigger mountains than anything east of the Rockies.

 

But then again, seeing snow twice a year is just a little different than seeing it every day between November and April.

[Frontal Snowsquall]

[Requiem]

The only thing the east coast really has over the west is thunderstorms IMO.

 

If all you want is snow, then mountain towns across the western US will give you all the snow you want, with far bigger mountains than anything east of the Rockies.

 

But then again, seeing snow twice a year is just a little different than seeing it every day between November and April.

 

By west I really meant the PACNW lowland areas. For example, I love the climate in Colorado, I think it's absolutely amazing.

[Guest CulverJosh]

You’re adorable.

 

“Big words” are more precise and shorten paragraphs. And I’m using a smartphone to type. Simple, really.

I would say most of us are on a smartphone. Doesn’t mean we have to use big words. It isn’t impressive, Phil. It really isn’t.

 

I think I said it over a year ago. You will be taken much more serious when you use normal words. No acronyms, no substitutes for common words. I’m not being a dikk. Just saying what most are thinking when you go off on cryptic speech.

[Phil]

The only thing the east coast really has over the west is thunderstorms IMO.

 

If all you want is snow, then mountain towns across the western US will give you all the snow you want, with far bigger mountains than anything east of the Rockies.

 

But then again, seeing snow twice a year is just a little different than seeing it every day between November and April.

Hurricanes/nor’easter bombs and cold extremes too.

 

But that’s cancelled out by crazy humidity for 4-5 months every year. Even the “coolest” summers are just awful during the dog days.

[Guest CulverJosh]

Hurricanes/nor’easter bombs and cold extremes too.

 

But that’s cancelled out by stupid humidity for 4-5 months every year, guaranteed.

The capitol beltway sucks big time too. Makes I-5 look like a country road.

[Frontal Snowsquall]

November 2019 rainfall statistics:

 

Blythe, CA (about 20 miles west of Farmboy): 1.80"

Phoenix (PHX): 1.55"

Portland (PDX): 1.52"

Hillsboro: 1.16"

Before this year, when was the last time PHX received more rain than PDX in November?

[Phil]

The capitol beltway sucks big time too. Makes I-5 look like a country road.

This is true. Actually, the DC area now averages the longest “commute by car” of any city in the country. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/study-states-with-the-longest-and-shortest-commutes.html

 

I’m increasingly finding myself stuck in logjams for over two hours just to travel my usual 7.5 miles.

[Guest CulverJosh]

This is true. Actually, the DC area now averages the longest “commute by car” of any city in the country. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/study-states-with-the-longest-and-shortest-commutes.html

 

I’m increasingly finding myself stuck in logjams for over two hours just to travel my usual 7.5 miles.

I was there working in 2000-2001. It was a joke. All 5 or 6 lanes each way were a logjam from 6-10 then 3-7. And that big snowstorm that occurred one of those years (can’t remember), I was in no way going anywhere.

[Omegaraptor]

Hurricanes/nor’easter bombs and cold extremes too.

 

But that’s cancelled out by crazy humidity for 4-5 months every year. Even the “coolest” summers are just awful during the dog days.

 

Yeah dry summers > humid summers.

 

This may be just an anecdote, but I thought there really wasn't much difference once you get drier than Portland in summer. That is, until I went to inland northern CA. 90ºF in the Shasta area did not feel hot at all - in fact, I went on a fairly comfortable 7 mile walk around a lake in that weather. IIRC afternoon RH values were around 20%. That's not even the dry side of the Cascades, either.

 

Colorado's climate seems like a good tradeoff - lots of t-storms while still having low summer humidity.

[Phil]

I would say most of us are on a smartphone. Doesn’t mean we have to use big words. It isn’t impressive, Phil. It really isn’t.

 

I think I said it over a year ago. You will be taken much more serious when you use normal words. No acronyms, no substitutes for common words. I’m not being a dikk. Just saying what most are thinking when you go off on cryptic speech.

I am using normal words. I didn’t invent the English language, learn another language if you don’t like it.

[OysterPrintout]

I would say most of us are on a smartphone. Doesn’t mean we have to use big words. It isn’t impressive, Phil. It really isn’t.

 

I think I said it over a year ago. You will be taken much more serious when you use normal words. No acronyms, no substitutes for common words. I’m not being a dikk. Just saying what most are thinking when you go off on cryptic speech.

 

Hey don't lump the rest of us that learned what antecedent means in 6th grade English grammar class with you. Phil's posts may be acronym heavy but they're not grammatically that dense.

 

Remember Richard? That dude made reading Infinite Jest look like a walk in the park.

[Frontal Snowsquall]

Courtesy of Brian Schmidt. Very sobering list.

 

PDX snowfall those winters:

 

1952-53: 0.6"

1987-88: 3.5"

1976-77: 0"

2002-03: 0"

1993-94: 2.6"

1978-79: 8.4"

 

So an average of around 2.5" of snow. 1993 seems like the closest match in terms of rainfall for both months. It also had an Arctic Blast and snow in February of that year.

[Phil]

Yeah dry summers > humid summers.

 

This may be just an anecdote, but I thought there really wasn't much difference once you get drier than Portland in summer. That is, until I went to inland northern CA. 90ºF in the Shasta area did not feel hot at all - in fact, I went on a fairly comfortable 7 mile walk around a lake in that weather. IIRC afternoon RH values were around 20%. That's not even the dry side of the Cascades, either.

 

Colorado's climate seems like a good tradeoff - lots of t-storms while still having low summer humidity.

Yeah, it’s crazy different. I remember the dry heat out in Leavenworth in 2018, still an oven but felt nothing like the suffocating steambath back home. Then temps plummeted at sunset and it was legit chilly in the morning. Epic.

[Deweydog]

Well at any rate, December is off to a chilly start!

[Guest CulverJosh]

Hey don't lump the rest of us that learned what antecedent means in 6th grade English grammar class with you. Phil's posts may be acronym heavy but they're not grammatically that dense.

 

Remember Richard? That dude made reading Infinite Jest look like a walk in the park.

Yes. We all may know what something means but it doesn’t mean it is necessary. Let us not turn this forum into Good Will Hunting.

 

I believe everyone on this forum has knowledge to share. Most weather geeks probably have scored higher in certain academic areas whether they be general knowledge tests, SATs or IQ tests. But it is much more fun to converse in an open forum where everyone has an understanding of the topic being discussed.

 

I graduated high school in 1995 and I can guarantee you the curriculum is much easier now than it was then. I don’t like it. But I do also understand that the smartest people make things understandable for everyone. Not necessarily dumbed down, but more consumable to the masses. That is what a true genius does.

[Brian_in_Leavenworth]

Yeah, it’s crazy different. I remember the dry heat out in Leavenworth in 2018, still an oven but felt nothing like the suffocating steambath back home. Then temps plummeted at sunset and it was legit chilly in the morning. Epic.

My wife, who is from Toronto, says the exact same thing.  Even at our hottest, you can at least go outside for awhile, and it is still fairly comfortable in the shade.  In more humid areas, it is like stepping into a sauna with all your clothes on.

 

And I still remember being in Florida a few years ago, and the first morning we were there, temps were still in the mid 70's, and any wet towels that you hung out overnight were still damp.

[Frontal Snowsquall]

[Guest CulverJosh]

[Rubus Leucodermis]

The only thing the east coast really has over the west is thunderstorms IMO.

 

If all you want is snow, then mountain towns across the western US will give you all the snow you want, with far bigger mountains than anything east of the Rockies.

 

But then again, seeing snow twice a year is just a little different than seeing it every day between November and April.

 

Not even thunderstorms. "The West" is more than just the Pacific coast. The southern Rockies usually have a very nice monsoon season, with almost-daily thunderstorms in July and August. Yet it's almost never hot and muggy; if it isn't warm-to-cool (but not hot) and thundery, then it's hot and dry. Plus there's snow in the winter.

 

You still pay for it with extremes. Lots more 80's and 90's in the summer, and if you're high enough to regularly get snow in the winter, you're also high enough to get subzero lows in the wake of cold fronts. And gardening can be "fun": if it's later than mid-May, your transplants will fail because of hot spells causing excessive drought stress. If it's earlier than mid-June, they will fail because a late frost will get them. Not to mention the effect of early and late falls of heavy wet snow when trees are fully leaved-out.

[Requiem]

Yes. We all may know what something means but it doesn’t mean it is necessary. Let us not turn this forum into Good Will Hunting.

 

I believe everyone on this forum has knowledge to share. Most weather geeks probably have scored higher in certain academic areas whether they be general knowledge tests, SATs or IQ tests. But it is much more fun to converse in an open forum where everyone has an understanding of the topic being discussed.

 

I graduated high school in 1995 and I can guarantee you the curriculum is much easier now than it was then. I don’t like it. But I do also understand that the smartest people make things understandable for everyone. Not necessarily dumbed down, but more consumable to the masses. That is what a true genius does.

 

Well, the more I think about it, the more I find that I'm just not a smart or talented person, so I suppose there's at least one person on here with little knowledge to share. But I enjoy learning from those who do have that spark of knowledge within them, acronyms present or not (though simple explanations seem to be better for everyone).

[Frontal Snowsquall]

Hey don't lump the rest of us that learned what antecedent means in 6th grade English grammar class with you. Phil's posts may be acronym heavy but they're not grammatically that dense.

 

Remember Richard? That dude made reading Infinite Jest look like a walk in the park.

I remember him. I was curious to see if he still posted on this forum but it looks like he hasn't been active since May of last year. He was very intelligent and I always loved his insights.

[GHweatherChris]

Hey don't lump the rest of us that learned what antecedent means in 6th grade English grammar class with you. Phil's posts may be acronym heavy but they're not grammatically that dense.

 

Remember Richard? That dude made reading Infinite Jest look like a walk in the park.

I had no issue understanding Richard, he always broke down his scientific dialogue at the end of most posts, Phil on the other hand....

 

Does anyone know what happened to Richard? Was he a casualty of the wildfires last year in Cali?

[Frontal Snowsquall]

Lots of time for that to change.

Yeah, I'm still feeling good about January.

[Frontal Snowsquall]

[Rubus Leucodermis]

I would say most of us are on a smartphone. Doesn’t mean we have to use big words. It isn’t impressive, Phil. It really isn’t.

 

I think I said it over a year ago. You will be taken much more serious when you use normal words. No acronyms, no substitutes for common words. I’m not being a dikk. Just saying what most are thinking when you go off on cryptic speech.

 

I find Phil's posts acronym-heavy to the point where it is often difficult for me to understand what he's talking about, and I've tried searching for the acronyms more than once. The NWS has a glossary of common weather terms, but I find most of the acronyms Phil uses are not in it. As such, I tend to skip over most of his posts.

 

The rub is, I believe myself to be more knowledgeable than the average person when it comes to climate and weather. If I was making posts (in a forum for enthusiasts, not professionals) that left even interested lay people confused, I'd rethink my posting strategy. But maybe that's just me.

[Guest CulverJosh]

The thing is, and I think most of us can agree. We have all been enthusiastic about weather and following it here in the PacNW. We are all pretty skilled at knowing what is going to happen based on satellite, water vapor, and temps/dp. A good understanding of our climate and the patterns that bring us the goods. I see no need to get overscientific because it really doesn’t change things.

 

I am a self-proclaimed hater of long range forecasting. I feel it is too wrought with disappointment. And it takes a lot of time and energy to try and prognosticate more than a few days out.

[Timmy Supercell]

Well at any rate, December is off to a chilly start!

 

The 42 I had this afternoon was a heatwave. 

[Timmy Supercell]

Not even thunderstorms. "The West" is more than just the Pacific coast. The southern Rockies usually have a very nice monsoon season, with almost-daily thunderstorms in July and August. 

 

Parts of Montana have a decent t'storm season themselves. A few times a year they'll have one that happens every 10 years in K-Falls.

[GHweatherChris]

[Rubus Leucodermis]

First time I have heard someone use antecedent in a sentence. In my entire 42+ years on this earth, pretty impressive.

 

It's in most any dictionary, and it's not the first time I've run across the word. This is a totally different matter than the "acronym soup" he tends to post: look it up! One doesn't even need to get up and crack open a dictionary these days; most search engines will show a definition if you type a word in them.

[Omegaraptor]

Not even thunderstorms. "The West" is more than just the Pacific coast. The southern Rockies usually have a very nice monsoon season, with almost-daily thunderstorms in July and August. Yet it's almost never hot and muggy; if it isn't warm-to-cool (but not hot) and thundery, then it's hot and dry. Plus there's snow in the winter.

 

You still pay for it with extremes. Lots more 80's and 90's in the summer, and if you're high enough to regularly get snow in the winter, you're also high enough to get subzero lows in the wake of cold fronts. And gardening can be "fun": if it's later than mid-May, your transplants will fail because of hot spells causing excessive drought stress. If it's earlier than mid-June, they will fail because a late frost will get them. Not to mention the effect of early and late falls of heavy wet snow when trees are fully leaved-out.

 

In many mountain locations it can freeze any day of the year, even in July and August. Not sure if Timmy gets summer frost on a frequent basis, but places like La Pine, Chemult, and Alturas do. I've personally experienced 30ºF in July in Sunriver.

[Rubus Leucodermis]

I am a self-proclaimed hater of long range forecasting. I feel it is too wrought with disappointment. And it takes a lot of time and energy to try and prognosticate more than a few days out.

 

I consider any model-gazing more than a week into the future to be merely a modern form of haruspication.