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2/4 - 2/7 Multi-Wave Storm System


Tom

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Biggest takeaway from today for me is, right or wrong, the GFS is once again showing far more consistency than the Euro.

True- other than the CMC which seems to be an outlier( I just reread your post ) and see you meant agst the Euro. True- my bad. . Of the big 4- Euro and Ukie agst GFS and then in left field- CMC. After a rough start - the GFS has done pretty good lately. Long ways to go with this but my hunch is since both Euro and UKIE and seeing somewhat of the same thing that they - together- are on to something.

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The two loudest sounds known to man: a gun that goes bang when it is supposed to go click and a gun that goes click when it is supposed to go bang.

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Kinda annoying how it keeps getting pushed back tho. Thread title indicates storm is already going Monday

 

First wave was supposed to be big, but then the models turned that into a head fake the last 36 hrs. Some were hinting at 2nd wave, now others are  joining that idea and losing wave-1. This time tomorrow, wave-2 will be lost and we'll be hoping for wave-3 to go big. I'll give it a "pass" tho if it comes thru in the end.  ;)

I'll prob be editing this title later today if trends hold...interesting developments from 00z guidance.  As has been a theme this season, the models jump on the first wave and then weaken it and focus more on the secondary southern stream energy.  In all fairness though, there seems to be an initial 1st wave but its rather weak and then the primary focus becomes the closed low ejecting out of the Rockies and potentially going neg tilt as it tracks up towards the Long Wave Long Term Trough around the GL's region.

 

A couple things that stand out to me and point towards a strong southern stream cutter:

 

1) The 500mb energy that digs into the southern Gulf states is sandwiched in between 2 ridges...the main one that has my attn is the upstream ridge across SE Canada which will allow this storm to dig and go neg tilt.  Great pattern for a OHV cutter.

 

ecmwf-ens_z500a_namer_7.png

 

 

That HP near Ontario is going to be vital to see how much this storm will cut...storms coming out of the Gulf region love to track towards these HP's...

 

ecmwf-ens_mslpaNorm_namer_6.png

 

 

00z GEFS trending towards a strong Ontario Ridge....

 

gfs-ens_mslptrend_namer_11.png

 

 

2) Second, the system that tracks off the EC on Sunday towards Nova Scotia and eventually bombs out South of Greenland produces enough of a Block to allow the secondary wave to dig farther south.  Even though this system is 100's of miles away, it will be an interesting player to the eventual track of this storm due to the Greenland Block that briefly develops from the intense storm that pumps the ridge over Greenland.

 

gfs-ens_mslpaNorm_namer_13.png

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While comparing both 00z GEFS/EPS runs, it certainly looks like both models are seeing a 1st wave laying down low-end advisory snows from NE to MI through the 5th (which gives this Thread's Title some validity).

 

 

 

GEFSUS_prec_meansnacc_120.png

 

 

 

More importantly, both models are starting to show increased potential with the primary secondary wave digging into the deep south and cutting up the OHV.  

 

GEFSUS_prec_meansnacc_192.png

 

 

 

Suddenly, some big hits showing up on the GEFS...the EPS has been showing them more often than not in previous runs and last night's 00z EPS run is showing some monster hits.

 

GEFSMW_prec_snens_162.png

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While comparing both 00z GEFS/EPS runs, it certainly looks like both models are seeing a 1st wave laying down low-end advisory snows from NE to MI through the 5th (which gives this Thread's Title some validity).

 

 

 

GEFSUS_prec_meansnacc_120.png

 

 

 

More importantly, both models are starting to show increased potential with the primary secondary wave digging into the deep south and cutting up the OHV.

 

GEFSUS_prec_meansnacc_192.png

 

 

 

Suddenly, some big hits showing up on the GEFS...the EPS has been showing them more often than not in previous runs and last night's 00z EPS run is showing some monster hits.

 

GEFSMW_prec_snens_162.png

Trying to sucker me in aren't you. Lol.

That thing "could" be an Arklatex mauler if everything works out.

 

History of this pattern says it's a 50/50 shot this time around at this range. Last round I was 25/75 in favor of a miss and got dusted on so I figure it was a great call.

I like my odds in a toss-up. Lol. Will be a week to watch the weather again for a change.

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Trying to sucker me in aren't you. Lol.

That thing "could" be an Arklatex mauler if everything works out.

 

History of this pattern says it's a 50/50 shot this time around at this range. Last round I was 25/75 in favor of a miss and got dusted on so I figure it was a great call.

I like my odds in a toss-up. Lol. Will be a week to watch the weather again for a change.

The trends for the cold to press and southern wave to dig are certainly in your favor.  This may end up being your first legit chance of a decent snowstorm!

 

06z GFS...

 

snku_acc.us_mw.png

 

 

 

Still showing a stripe of snow in your back yard @ Okwx....

 

snku_acc.us_sc.png

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The trends for the cold to press and southern wave to dig are certainly in your favor. This may end up being your first legit chance of a decent snowstorm!

 

06z GFS...

 

snku_acc.us_mw.png

 

 

 

Still showing a stripe of snow in your back yard @ Okwx....

 

snku_acc.us_sc.png

You promise? Haha.

Just lock that one down for me up there would ya buddy? ;)

 

The avg coldest week of the year is coming up. If I miss this round, its probably over.

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DMX talks little of favor of models and is rather bland (typical of this office). Quad Cities favors the slower Euro.

 

The ECM is the slower of the models. Usually we see models start to

slow with a system like this. If the ECm is correct we could see

fzra changing to snow across the area. We would then see some wrap

around. If the GEM is correct, we would just see wrap around. The

GFS is the middle ground between the two models. I do tend to favor

the ECM, just because it is the slower of all the solutions

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The two loudest sounds known to man: a gun that goes bang when it is supposed to go click and a gun that goes click when it is supposed to go bang.

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Euro Kuchera-http://proa.accuweather.com/gradsimage10/ecmwfued/00Z/ecmwfued-null--usnc-150-C-kucheratot.png

 

So much for "the cold is gonna press" and move the line of scrimmage SE  :rolleyes:  I get that it's not a done deal yet, but this would be so in line with the season's pattern/results. I'm back to my 2". And no, I don't trust the weaker models against the big guns from Europe. This reminds me of the 11-12th. Models wanted to make that secondary a biggie for certain regions. It ended up tracking a bit SE tho, and ofc was weak sauce for all involved. Now I'm stuck cheering for a SE trend, but the results would be weak no doubt. Good thing I've got hours to waste following these scenarios since it's winter time. 

Winter 2023-24 Snow Total = 52.8" (89% Normal Season)  Largest Storm: 12" (1/12-13)   Oct: 0.1 Nov: 2.9 Dec: 7.5 Jan: 31.7 Feb: 6.0 Mar: 4.1 Apr: 0.0

Avg = 59.2"  (Harrison): 2023-24 = xx.x" 

Avg = 45.0"  (KDTW): 2022-23 = 33.5"   2021-22 = 35.6"    

Avg = 49.7"  (KRMY): 2020-21 = 36.2"   2019-20 = 48.0"   2018-19 = 56.1"   2017-18 = 68.3"    2016-17 = 52"    2015-16 = 57.4"    2014-15 = 55.3"    2013-14 = 100.6" (coldest & snowiest in the modern record!)  2012-13 = 47.2"    2011-12 = 43.7"

Legit Blizzards (high winds and dbl digit snows): Feb 2011, Dec 2009, Jan 2005, Dec 2000, Jan 1999, Mar 1998, Nov 1989, Jan 1982, Jan 1978, Jan 1977, Apr 1975, Mar 1973, Jan 1967, Feb 1965, Jan 1918

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You promise? Haha.

Just lock that one down for me up there would ya buddy? ;)

 

The avg coldest week of the year is coming up. If I miss this round, its probably over.

Good luck down there.....it looks like this could be happening for ya! ;)

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Snowfall for Winter 2023 -24 for Metro Detroit Area 

Oct 2023: 0.2" AN

Nov 2023: 2.2" AN

Dec 2023: 0.5" BN Insane!

Jan 2024: 17.0" AN

Feb 2024: 1.9"  BN

Mar 2024: 4.9" BN

April 2024:

Season So Far: 26.7"

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I like how things are trending, may pull out a moderate snow and put me over my season average in early Feb!

That would be awesome!!! Good luck w this one!

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Snowfall for Winter 2023 -24 for Metro Detroit Area 

Oct 2023: 0.2" AN

Nov 2023: 2.2" AN

Dec 2023: 0.5" BN Insane!

Jan 2024: 17.0" AN

Feb 2024: 1.9"  BN

Mar 2024: 4.9" BN

April 2024:

Season So Far: 26.7"

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Wow some of those really blast your area and mine.

Dont forget my area also :P ;) ....#9 is a crusher!!!!!

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Snowfall for Winter 2023 -24 for Metro Detroit Area 

Oct 2023: 0.2" AN

Nov 2023: 2.2" AN

Dec 2023: 0.5" BN Insane!

Jan 2024: 17.0" AN

Feb 2024: 1.9"  BN

Mar 2024: 4.9" BN

April 2024:

Season So Far: 26.7"

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Some gfs ensembles really gets the low down

 

987 on some of them in IL/MI

 

Which would totally suck. Need this strength but SE running thru the OHV not on top over our heads. 

Winter 2023-24 Snow Total = 52.8" (89% Normal Season)  Largest Storm: 12" (1/12-13)   Oct: 0.1 Nov: 2.9 Dec: 7.5 Jan: 31.7 Feb: 6.0 Mar: 4.1 Apr: 0.0

Avg = 59.2"  (Harrison): 2023-24 = xx.x" 

Avg = 45.0"  (KDTW): 2022-23 = 33.5"   2021-22 = 35.6"    

Avg = 49.7"  (KRMY): 2020-21 = 36.2"   2019-20 = 48.0"   2018-19 = 56.1"   2017-18 = 68.3"    2016-17 = 52"    2015-16 = 57.4"    2014-15 = 55.3"    2013-14 = 100.6" (coldest & snowiest in the modern record!)  2012-13 = 47.2"    2011-12 = 43.7"

Legit Blizzards (high winds and dbl digit snows): Feb 2011, Dec 2009, Jan 2005, Dec 2000, Jan 1999, Mar 1998, Nov 1989, Jan 1982, Jan 1978, Jan 1977, Apr 1975, Mar 1973, Jan 1967, Feb 1965, Jan 1918

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I like how things are trending, may pull out a moderate snow and put me over my season average in early Feb!

 

Meanwhile, some of us are chasing 22 yr futility hoping to perhaps not finish behind the lame '11-12 season. While the LES has been overall lacking, I actually have 34% of my snow due to Lake Michigan's help. Typical here is more in the 20-25% range so it's a bit above avg. That surprise arctic CF just before Christmas being the booster shot. Without that event, I'd be right at normal (23%).

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Winter 2023-24 Snow Total = 52.8" (89% Normal Season)  Largest Storm: 12" (1/12-13)   Oct: 0.1 Nov: 2.9 Dec: 7.5 Jan: 31.7 Feb: 6.0 Mar: 4.1 Apr: 0.0

Avg = 59.2"  (Harrison): 2023-24 = xx.x" 

Avg = 45.0"  (KDTW): 2022-23 = 33.5"   2021-22 = 35.6"    

Avg = 49.7"  (KRMY): 2020-21 = 36.2"   2019-20 = 48.0"   2018-19 = 56.1"   2017-18 = 68.3"    2016-17 = 52"    2015-16 = 57.4"    2014-15 = 55.3"    2013-14 = 100.6" (coldest & snowiest in the modern record!)  2012-13 = 47.2"    2011-12 = 43.7"

Legit Blizzards (high winds and dbl digit snows): Feb 2011, Dec 2009, Jan 2005, Dec 2000, Jan 1999, Mar 1998, Nov 1989, Jan 1982, Jan 1978, Jan 1977, Apr 1975, Mar 1973, Jan 1967, Feb 1965, Jan 1918

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Can we all just agree that all the models suck and this will be a nowcast event?

 

My thoughts exactly! (as with just about every event this yr). They keep taking turns flipping N runners to S runners. General signal for a storm is their purpose I suppose. I knew a SMI wx geek who basically quit this hobby the past couple years due to this. There was an era (before my time on wx boards) when models trended within certain time-frames and their individual biases were a "known quantity". Now it's like trying to guess where they will flip to next run. It has been pointed out tho, the big improvement touted by those responsible is that we no longer see storms just vanish in the

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Winter 2023-24 Snow Total = 52.8" (89% Normal Season)  Largest Storm: 12" (1/12-13)   Oct: 0.1 Nov: 2.9 Dec: 7.5 Jan: 31.7 Feb: 6.0 Mar: 4.1 Apr: 0.0

Avg = 59.2"  (Harrison): 2023-24 = xx.x" 

Avg = 45.0"  (KDTW): 2022-23 = 33.5"   2021-22 = 35.6"    

Avg = 49.7"  (KRMY): 2020-21 = 36.2"   2019-20 = 48.0"   2018-19 = 56.1"   2017-18 = 68.3"    2016-17 = 52"    2015-16 = 57.4"    2014-15 = 55.3"    2013-14 = 100.6" (coldest & snowiest in the modern record!)  2012-13 = 47.2"    2011-12 = 43.7"

Legit Blizzards (high winds and dbl digit snows): Feb 2011, Dec 2009, Jan 2005, Dec 2000, Jan 1999, Mar 1998, Nov 1989, Jan 1982, Jan 1978, Jan 1977, Apr 1975, Mar 1973, Jan 1967, Feb 1965, Jan 1918

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12z ICON is at least trying for a bigger wave midweek.

 

Update:  Now it does have a pretty solid storm for St. Louis to se Michigan.

 

icon_mslp_pcpn_frzn_us_40.png

icon_asnow_ncus_49.png

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season snowfall: 34.8"

'22-23: 30.2"      '21-22: 27.1"      '20-21: 52.5"      '19-20: 36.2"      '18-19: 50.2"      '17-18: 39.5"

Average snowfall: ~30"

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12z GFS is looking less good (at least for us nw folks).  It digs the northern stream a bit more again, which leads to more stretching and tugging of the western energy.  Iowa needs more separation between the two, which is what last night's UK and Euro were showing.

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season snowfall: 34.8"

'22-23: 30.2"      '21-22: 27.1"      '20-21: 52.5"      '19-20: 36.2"      '18-19: 50.2"      '17-18: 39.5"

Average snowfall: ~30"

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12z GFS is looking less good (at least for us nw folks).  It digs the northern stream a bit more again, which leads to more stretching and tugging of the western energy.  Iowa needs more separation between the two, which is what last night's UK and Euro were showing.

 

Why does that sound familiar from the 11-12th event perhaps? 

Winter 2023-24 Snow Total = 52.8" (89% Normal Season)  Largest Storm: 12" (1/12-13)   Oct: 0.1 Nov: 2.9 Dec: 7.5 Jan: 31.7 Feb: 6.0 Mar: 4.1 Apr: 0.0

Avg = 59.2"  (Harrison): 2023-24 = xx.x" 

Avg = 45.0"  (KDTW): 2022-23 = 33.5"   2021-22 = 35.6"    

Avg = 49.7"  (KRMY): 2020-21 = 36.2"   2019-20 = 48.0"   2018-19 = 56.1"   2017-18 = 68.3"    2016-17 = 52"    2015-16 = 57.4"    2014-15 = 55.3"    2013-14 = 100.6" (coldest & snowiest in the modern record!)  2012-13 = 47.2"    2011-12 = 43.7"

Legit Blizzards (high winds and dbl digit snows): Feb 2011, Dec 2009, Jan 2005, Dec 2000, Jan 1999, Mar 1998, Nov 1989, Jan 1982, Jan 1978, Jan 1977, Apr 1975, Mar 1973, Jan 1967, Feb 1965, Jan 1918

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My office..

 

 

- Heavier synoptic precipitation looking more probable for
Wednesday night into Thursday -

Medium range guidance trends are also showing potential for a
southern stream system to move northeast from the Arklatex region
Wednesday. It will potentially spread snow into portions of our
fcst area Wednesday night into Thursday depending on the exact
track and strength of that system. Overall medium range guidance
trends definitely look further west with this system so synoptic
pcpn now looks more probable for our area late Wednesday or
Wednesday night into Thursday.
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Winter 2023-24 Snow Total = 52.8" (89% Normal Season)  Largest Storm: 12" (1/12-13)   Oct: 0.1 Nov: 2.9 Dec: 7.5 Jan: 31.7 Feb: 6.0 Mar: 4.1 Apr: 0.0

Avg = 59.2"  (Harrison): 2023-24 = xx.x" 

Avg = 45.0"  (KDTW): 2022-23 = 33.5"   2021-22 = 35.6"    

Avg = 49.7"  (KRMY): 2020-21 = 36.2"   2019-20 = 48.0"   2018-19 = 56.1"   2017-18 = 68.3"    2016-17 = 52"    2015-16 = 57.4"    2014-15 = 55.3"    2013-14 = 100.6" (coldest & snowiest in the modern record!)  2012-13 = 47.2"    2011-12 = 43.7"

Legit Blizzards (high winds and dbl digit snows): Feb 2011, Dec 2009, Jan 2005, Dec 2000, Jan 1999, Mar 1998, Nov 1989, Jan 1982, Jan 1978, Jan 1977, Apr 1975, Mar 1973, Jan 1967, Feb 1965, Jan 1918

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This run is a big step backward.  There is more emphasis on the first wave again, with less energy available for a second wave.

season snowfall: 34.8"

'22-23: 30.2"      '21-22: 27.1"      '20-21: 52.5"      '19-20: 36.2"      '18-19: 50.2"      '17-18: 39.5"

Average snowfall: ~30"

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This run is a big step backward.  There is more emphasis on the first wave again, with less energy available for a second wave.

 

See TOL_Wx's post wrt models. What-a-joke

Winter 2023-24 Snow Total = 52.8" (89% Normal Season)  Largest Storm: 12" (1/12-13)   Oct: 0.1 Nov: 2.9 Dec: 7.5 Jan: 31.7 Feb: 6.0 Mar: 4.1 Apr: 0.0

Avg = 59.2"  (Harrison): 2023-24 = xx.x" 

Avg = 45.0"  (KDTW): 2022-23 = 33.5"   2021-22 = 35.6"    

Avg = 49.7"  (KRMY): 2020-21 = 36.2"   2019-20 = 48.0"   2018-19 = 56.1"   2017-18 = 68.3"    2016-17 = 52"    2015-16 = 57.4"    2014-15 = 55.3"    2013-14 = 100.6" (coldest & snowiest in the modern record!)  2012-13 = 47.2"    2011-12 = 43.7"

Legit Blizzards (high winds and dbl digit snows): Feb 2011, Dec 2009, Jan 2005, Dec 2000, Jan 1999, Mar 1998, Nov 1989, Jan 1982, Jan 1978, Jan 1977, Apr 1975, Mar 1973, Jan 1967, Feb 1965, Jan 1918

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12z ICON is at least trying for a bigger wave midweek.

 

Update:  Now it does have a pretty solid storm for St. Louis to se Michigan.

 

icon_mslp_pcpn_frzn_us_40.png

icon_asnow_ncus_49.png

Very impressive! :D

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Snowfall for Winter 2023 -24 for Metro Detroit Area 

Oct 2023: 0.2" AN

Nov 2023: 2.2" AN

Dec 2023: 0.5" BN Insane!

Jan 2024: 17.0" AN

Feb 2024: 1.9"  BN

Mar 2024: 4.9" BN

April 2024:

Season So Far: 26.7"

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12z Canadian has a bit more separation between the northern steam and western energy this run, so it ultimately has a better wave that gets some snow back into Iowa.

 

gem_mslp_pcpn_frzn_us_19.png

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season snowfall: 34.8"

'22-23: 30.2"      '21-22: 27.1"      '20-21: 52.5"      '19-20: 36.2"      '18-19: 50.2"      '17-18: 39.5"

Average snowfall: ~30"

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That whole GFS Run was screwy and looks like its having medium range problems. Nice to see the ICON flash a developed secondary wave. Positive trend overall from that model. I believe it also has slowed down with the second wave and was noted in one of the AFD’s, hense the reason to ride the Euro/Ukie.

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12z Canadian has a bit more separation between the northern steam and western energy this run, so it ultimately has a better wave that gets some snow back into Iowa.

 

gem_mslp_pcpn_frzn_us_19.png

Looks like it begins to neg tilt a little past this timeframe. I just got this feeling this storm is going to blow up somewhere across the OHV.

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The UK ought to be interesting for someone.  It separates the streams at least as much as last night and digs the western energy way down to Mexico.

season snowfall: 34.8"

'22-23: 30.2"      '21-22: 27.1"      '20-21: 52.5"      '19-20: 36.2"      '18-19: 50.2"      '17-18: 39.5"

Average snowfall: ~30"

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