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According to the laws of radiative transfer. This is pretty much agreed upon, if I'm not mistaken...

 

http://www.middlebury.net/nicol-08.doc

 

.. You did this before. I ask a straight-forward according to whom, general question, the broader theme then, as with this idea, obviously having to do with "Physics", ....

 

And you plop down "According to the laws of Physics". If in this case more pointing to some of them more specific. 

 

I've simply asked you to point to where you've seen what you've suggested, pointed to elsewhere / asserted otherwise .. if it hadn't been something that you've arrived at more yourself alone.

 

.. Before I check the document that you've routed to above, .. does what it contains work to demonstrate what you've suggested above. ?

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If you're searching for a few precise snippets of mathematical dialogue, you're not going to find anything of interest when studying radiative transfer.

 

You'll find the explanations you seek throughout the paper. You can't summarize all the aspects of radiative forcing and resulting emergent phenomenon in just a few equations/paragraphs..or so we think we know..

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If you're searching for a few precise snippets of mathematical dialogue, you're not going to find anything of interest when studying radiative transfer.

 

You'll find the explanations you seek throughout the paper.

I've simply asked you to point to where you've seen what you've suggested, pointed to elsewhere / asserted otherwise .. if it hadn't been something that you've arrived at more yourself alone.

 

.. Before I check the document that you've routed to above, .. does what it contains work to demonstrate what you've suggested above. ?

You can't summarize all the aspects of radiative forcing and resulting emergent phenomenon in just a few equations/paragraphs..or so we think we know..

 

You can't, one can't, ... So "no" then.

 

AGW theory requires the intercepted IR to be thermalized in the upper troposphere before that heat can go anywhere. If the upper troposphere isn't warming, then they have a problem.

Anyone else. ? ... perhaps reading this, able to illuminate, substantiate this thinking, any better than its author here. ?

 

... the document is written by a physicist who has reached the same conclusion as I have.

[And] I see. Perhaps (only.) you could summarize your's more specific for me.

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If you say so "Phil". ... Though, in this case, and with this attitude and response of yours above looked at more in particularly, I'm certainly inclined to go along with Jesse.
 

... He's just so gosh darn smart! He can't help talking this way. It's our fault that we can't keep up!!

 

... For anyone else's benefit.

http://www.middlebury.net/nicol-08.doc

Merely scroll down to ...

"Conclusion"

$ .... It's the same as "Phil's".

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  • 2 weeks later...

Phil, or anyone else -

 

Have you seen any graphs that compare tropical cloud cover with the solar cycles?

I know of spectral data that reveals strong coherence on several timescales, but it's in raw format. I'd have to plot it myself.

 

Cloud cover is actually very low right now (-3%, +/- 1% within a 95% confidence window from 2013) which I did not anticipate. But the IR data from July suggests we're recovering, finally

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  • 1 month later...

Another X flare today, heading straight at the Earth. 

 

From spaceweather.com "Earth-orbiting satellites have just detected a powerful X1.6-class solar flare (Sept. 10 @ 17:46 UT). The source was active sunspot AR2158, which is directly facing Earth...Ionizing radiation from the flare could cause HF radio blackouts and other communications disturbances, especially on the day-lit side of Earth. In the next few hours, when coronagraph data from SOHO and STEREO become available, we will see if a CME emerges from the blast site. If so, the cloud would likely be aimed directly at Earth and could reach our planet in 2 to 3 days

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Not good, could really deplete polar O^3 and strengthen the PV if it continues.

 

With a Niño circulation in the NPAC, PNW desperately needs blocking to avoid getting pineappled.

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With a Niño circulation in the NPAC, PNW desperately needs blocking to avoid getting pineappled.

Once again Phil, here I am requesting elucidation.

 

Perhaps you could expand a bit with respect to your more general thinking here above. ?

 

".. a .. Nino circulation in the NPAC" ... "blocking to avoid". (?)

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You're just relentless. Maybe clarify your questions, specifically?

 

- Niño circulation?

 

- Blocking?

 

- Pineapple Express?

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Not good, could really deplete polar O^3 and strengthen the PV if it continues.

 

With a Niño circulation in the NPAC, PNW desperately needs blocking to avoid getting pineappled.

How much longer do you think this Solar max will continue before we begin to trend downward toward the next minimum?

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http://theweatherforums.com/index.php?/topic/24-solar-stuff/?p=32606
 
First, I don't know WT[ ] you're talking about where considering your suggestion that I'm (being.?) relentless.  

(As in, bullsh*t someone else.)

 

Where considering what. ?  ".. discussion, forum". .. Are you in fact familiar with the concept. ?
 
One possible scenario, ... Someone drops up a statement. Unclear to someone other having read it. And with this idea, that other person asks the person who posted the statement, to clarify it.  ("relentless". ?)
 
.. Specify what I don't understand. ?  Fine.  More essentially, your more esoteric twists along with inferences (that go nowhere.) attached (liberally.) to portions, of meteorological ideas. But with this idea let's look more specifically, at your post submitted above, isolated quoted here again just below. 


With a Niño circulation in the NPAC, PNW desperately needs blocking to avoid getting pineappled.

 
What is ....... (? ) "a Niño circulation". ? - @

And with this, with looking at where and how you've used this phrase here above (?), .. what does, "With .. a Niño circulation .. in the NPAC", mean exactly. ?
 
And then (?), with these questions more specific, answered, ...
 
What is your more expanded reasoning / thinking, where having connected this odd statement, to the more general idea that you've suggested, following it. ? "... [the ?] PNW desperately needs blocking to avoid getting pineappled."

I'll leave alone the idea of just how this (if more obscured.) thinking of yours here, ties in with what you'd suggested pointed to proceeding it. Or Solar activity more generally. .. Probably too much to ask, I'm guessing.

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Brewer-Dobson Cells transport heat/O^3 from the tropical stratosphere to the polar stratosphere/PV domain. Stronger, more efficient cells = weaker PNJ/PV, stronger vertical eddys/wave breakers, and a poleward EPF vector.

 

 

Stronger Sun electromagnetically accelerates O^3 photodissociation in the stratosohere, warms the top of the Hadley Cells, slows the Brewer-Dobson Cells, strengthens the PNJ/PV (which further destroys O^3), pushes the EPF vector equatorialward, warms the tropical tropopause, weakens the MJO, hence weakening MT/PW amplitude, hence strengthening the belly of the PV through the polar troposphere, etc.

 

A lot to go through. :)

 

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Thanks. I didn't realize that we could have that much longer to go.

phil I believe predicted this period we are in 2013 -2017 would be a transition period with alot of variability. and then around 2017 would be the beginning of the drop.it will be interesting to see how this all progress.geos and F Guimaraes have very slimmuler thoughts on this as well.
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  • 2 months later...

The global climate through most of the 1800s was a very different animal, relative to the climate of the early 20th century.

 

There was likely a relatively abrupt expansion/poleward migration of the Hadley Cells between 1900-1950, along with a jump in global temperatures during that time. Reanalysis indicates strengthening subtropical highs and a poleward biased westerly belt/ferrel domain..this is probably responsible for the decline in the frequency of Arctic events..

 

The Dalton Minimum is thought to have significantly altered the tropical circulations and the dynamics of the systematic wave trains..lots of strange anomalies noted in the 19th century. When solar activity spiked later in the 1800s, the response was clear and abrupt..

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  • 2 months later...
  • 4 months later...

Article in Nature about chances of a solar minimum and its impact on our weather.  A lot of it sounds like something Phil would have written.   http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2015/150623/ncomms8535/full/ncomms8535.html

 

"

Northern hemisphere winter response

In our experiments, while cooling is evident year round, the largest and most coherent anomalies are in the northern hemisphere in boreal winter and spring. Much of this structure can be explained by a relative change in atmospheric circulation. During December to February, a negative AO/NAO-like mean sea-level pressure pattern is seen in both experiments (Fig. 3a,e). Over the North Pacific, the deepened Aleutian low is consistent with the observed pressure response to changes in solar activity10, 21, 22. In the Atlantic sector, EXPT-B has a stronger and more significant response, showing a weakening in the NAO (defined for the model as the difference in sea-level pressure between gridpoints nearest to the Azores and southwest Iceland) of 1.8hPa, which is a notable proportion of the interannual standard deviation of 7–8hPa. Again, the NAO pattern is consistent with the observed response associated with the 11-year cycle over the recent re-analysis period11, which has been found to be significant and maximizes at a lag of ~3–4 years for the period 1870–2010 (ref. 10)."

 

and also - "As a result of the decrease in solar irradiance, both experiments show widespread cooling with respect to CTRL-8.5 (Fig. 2). The relative annual global mean near-surface temperature change for the period 2050–2099 is a cooling of 0.13 and 0.12°C for EXPT-A and EXPT-B, respectively. This offsets or delays the global warming trend by ~2 years and is small compared with the modelled global warming."

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  • 3 years later...

21 consecutive spotless days now...for reference the longest spotless stretch in the 2008/09 solar minimum was 58 days, so we’re only about 36% of that so far.

 

Still, surprisingly early to see this. We haven’t seen many SC25 polarity spots yet, and the dipole clearly hasn’t crested to its solar minimum structure yet. As of now the consensus is that the solar minimum will occcur in winter 2019/20 or early in 2020, so there possibly quite a ways left to go before the minimum.

 

Will be interesting to see how deep this solar minimum gets, and whether it can produce huge -NAOs like the last one.

 

 

So that would finally give the boot to the NE Canada vortex?

 

 

You’d think so. Even before the solar slowdown in recent decades, the NE-Canadian vortex would tend to dissipate during 11yr solar minimums (weak vortex winters in 2010/11, 2009/10, 2008/09, 1995/96, 1985/86, 1984/85, 1977/78, 1965/66, 1964/65, 1963/64, 1956/57, 1955/56, 1954/55, etc).

 

So even during the peak of the modern maximum, that vortex would lose support during the 11yr solar minimums.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I thought I'd toss this out for fun. No doubt we've had washing machine weather. Just crazy.

But the cooling has not been mentioned as the heat has grabbed the headline.

With no sunspots, we're bound to get some changes here on the rock.

 

Background

 

http://climaterealists.com/about.php

 

 

“And this is what is happening now.” – Salvatore del Prete

_________________

 

Weak solar and geomagnetic fields lead to cooling

 

“And this is what is happening now.”

By Salvatore del Prete

 

It is just amazing how solar variability and the associated secondary effects, which are compounded by earth’s weakening magnetic field, are completely over looked by mainstream.

 

There is no global warming due to anthropogenic global warming (AGW) and the minor recent global warming that did take place is ending this year, year 2018.

 

Thus far year 2018 is cooperating with overall sea surface temperatures now less then +.15c above 1981-2010 means in contrast to +.35c during the past summer.

 

In addition, according to satellite data the global temperatures this year are lower then a year ago.

 

One key metric that has to be watched is the North Atlantic which is now in solid negative territory around -.50c from 1981-2010 means.

 

Greenland ice very healthy

 

As the sun continues in a prolonged solar minimum state this is going to equate to lower overall sea surface temperatures and a slightly higher albedo, which in turn will equate to a colder climate.

 

The weakening geo magnetic field will compound this .

 

I have been saying this for years and this year, 2018, is the first year that my two solar conditions have been met in order to have the sun result in a more significant climatic impact. Those being 10+ years of sub solar activity in general (which started in year 2005) and within this sub solar activity in general a period of time of very low average value solar parameters (which started in year 2018), meaning solar reading equal to or lower in magnitude that occurs during typical solar minimums with the duration of time of these very low solar values longer then what is typical.

 

It is happening this year and this is the first time since the ending of the Dalton Minimum, that my two solar conditions are occurring.

 

In the meantime all the basic premises AGW theory is based on have failed to materialize while the global climate is not even close to being unique.

 

The theory should have been trashed 20 years ago but has survived due to political agendas.

 

Salvatore del Prete

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Before You Diagnose Yourself With Depression or Low Self-Esteem,...First Make Sure You Are Not In Fact, Just Surrounded By A$$holes.

 

2018 Rainfall - 62.65" High Temp. - 110.03* Low Temp. - 8.4*

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I thought I'd toss this out for fun. No doubt we've had washing machine weather. Just crazy.

But the cooling has not been mentioned as the heat has grabbed the headline.

With no sunspots, we're bound to get some changes here on the rock.

Background

http://climaterealists.com/about.php

“And this is what is happening now.” – Salvatore del Prete

_________________

Weak solar and geomagnetic fields lead to cooling

“And this is what is happening now.”

By Salvatore del Prete

It is just amazing how solar variability and the associated secondary effects, which are compounded by earth’s weakening magnetic field, are completely over looked by mainstream.

There is no global warming due to anthropogenic global warming (AGW) and the minor recent global warming that did take place is ending this year, year 2018.

Thus far year 2018 is cooperating with overall sea surface temperatures now less then +.15c above 1981-2010 means in contrast to +.35c during the past summer.

In addition, according to satellite data the global temperatures this year are lower then a year ago.

One key metric that has to be watched is the North Atlantic which is now in solid negative territory around -.50c from 1981-2010 means.

Greenland ice very healthy

As the sun continues in a prolonged solar minimum state this is going to equate to lower overall sea surface temperatures and a slightly higher albedo, which in turn will equate to a colder climate.

The weakening geo magnetic field will compound this .

I have been saying this for years and this year, 2018, is the first year that my two solar conditions have been met in order to have the sun result in a more significant climatic impact. Those being 10+ years of sub solar activity in general (which started in year 2005) and within this sub solar activity in general a period of time of very low average value solar parameters (which started in year 2018), meaning solar reading equal to or lower in magnitude that occurs during typical solar minimums with the duration of time of these very low solar values longer then what is typical.

It is happening this year and this is the first time since the ending of the Dalton Minimum, that my two solar conditions are occurring.

In the meantime all the basic premises AGW theory is based on have failed to materialize while the global climate is not even close to being unique.

The theory should have been trashed 20 years ago but has survived due to political agendas.

Salvatore del Prete

he posts on Roberts filex blog iceagenow as well.
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I thought I'd toss this out for fun. No doubt we've had washing machine weather. Just crazy.

But the cooling has not been mentioned as the heat has grabbed the headline.

With no sunspots, we're bound to get some changes here on the rock.

 

Background

 

http://climaterealists.com/about.php

 

 

“And this is what is happening now.” – Salvatore del Prete

_________________

 

Weak solar and geomagnetic fields lead to cooling

 

“And this is what is happening now.”

By Salvatore del Prete

 

It is just amazing how solar variability and the associated secondary effects, which are compounded by earth’s weakening magnetic field, are completely over looked by mainstream.

 

There is no global warming due to anthropogenic global warming (AGW) and the minor recent global warming that did take place is ending this year, year 2018.

 

Thus far year 2018 is cooperating with overall sea surface temperatures now less then +.15c above 1981-2010 means in contrast to +.35c during the past summer.

 

In addition, according to satellite data the global temperatures this year are lower then a year ago.

 

One key metric that has to be watched is the North Atlantic which is now in solid negative territory around -.50c from 1981-2010 means.

 

Greenland ice very healthy

 

As the sun continues in a prolonged solar minimum state this is going to equate to lower overall sea surface temperatures and a slightly higher albedo, which in turn will equate to a colder climate.

 

The weakening geo magnetic field will compound this .

 

I have been saying this for years and this year, 2018, is the first year that my two solar conditions have been met in order to have the sun result in a more significant climatic impact. Those being 10+ years of sub solar activity in general (which started in year 2005) and within this sub solar activity in general a period of time of very low average value solar parameters (which started in year 2018), meaning solar reading equal to or lower in magnitude that occurs during typical solar minimums with the duration of time of these very low solar values longer then what is typical.

 

It is happening this year and this is the first time since the ending of the Dalton Minimum, that my two solar conditions are occurring.

 

In the meantime all the basic premises AGW theory is based on have failed to materialize while the global climate is not even close to being unique.

 

The theory should have been trashed 20 years ago but has survived due to political agendas.

 

Salvatore del Prete

Guy at least sounds incredibly confident in his thoughts. It's going to be interesting for sure.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Guy at least sounds incredibly confident in his thoughts. It's going to be interesting for sure.

Robert posted Salvator del prete thoughts on the solar cycle https://www.iceagenow.info/we-must-include-solar-geomagnetic-field-strength-when-making-predictions/ it will be interesting to see How it turns out.salvortor del prete also has a blog site https://climatebusters.org
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Well, if he's right I'd better buy that heavy weather coat while prices are reasonable. :)

 

You have to admit, weather has been different the past 5 years. Hurricanes and tornados fewer. Now all we need is a monster volcanic eruption that throws a boat load of SO2 into the stratosphere and we'd could just see that colder climate.

 

With all the earthquaking lately, it wouldn't surprise me to see a large volcanic eruption.

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Before You Diagnose Yourself With Depression or Low Self-Esteem,...First Make Sure You Are Not In Fact, Just Surrounded By A$$holes.

 

2018 Rainfall - 62.65" High Temp. - 110.03* Low Temp. - 8.4*

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  • 3 weeks later...

Here's an interesting article suggesting the Thermosphere during Solar Cycle 24 had reached its coldest maximum of the past 7 solar cycles.  Is it a coincidence we sent a probe to investigate the sun this Summer???  Something rather fascinating is happening with our Sun.

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1364682618301354?via%3Dihub'

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Here's an interesting article suggesting the Thermosphere during Solar Cycle 24 had reached its coldest maximum of the past 7 solar cycles. Is it a coincidence we sent a probe to investigate the sun this Summer??? Something rather fascinating is happening with our Sun.

If that is the case, the surface should begin cooling. Possibly rapidly. It sounds like conspiracy stuff but you know there has to be an effect sometime. If you believe that since 1980, we have been on a peak or plateau, of sorts, instead of the runaway disaster of global apocalypse that everyone believes, it makes it make a lot more sense. If I were going to cool the globe, I'd start with the largest places to hold the cold first and work my way out from there. That's Antarctica in the southern hemisphere and Russia/Siberia/Greenland in the north. Over the last decade, that has happened, regardless of what the record states. Something big is up.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Let's get serious, guys!

 

Beer could become threatened by Global Warming!

 

 

Decreases in global beer supply due to extreme drought and heat

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41477-018-0263-1

 

:lol:

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Before You Diagnose Yourself With Depression or Low Self-Esteem,...First Make Sure You Are Not In Fact, Just Surrounded By A$$holes.

 

2018 Rainfall - 62.65" High Temp. - 110.03* Low Temp. - 8.4*

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