Politer Politics

[Rubus Leucodermis]

15 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

Only the best thinkers for the conservatives.  This $hit rolls down hill, as we've seen in these threads.  It won't be long until Andrew says something similar.

 

The more the keep it classy like that, the better for Harris.

[Front Ranger]

1 hour ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

And Kennedy was fighting to get on the ballot in some states and is now fighting to get off it.

In politics, the key principle is self-interest.

Yeah, but it's more logically consistent to fight to get on when you're running and fight to get off when you drop out.

[smerfylicious]

3 minutes ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

The more the keep it classy like that, the better for Harris.

Wait til you find out what her nickname was at the San Francisco DA office when she was there!  

[Rubus Leucodermis]

3 minutes ago, Front Ranger said:

Yeah, but it's more logically consistent to fight to get on when you're running and fight to get off when you drop out.

It's also logically consistent to fight for what benefits one's own team.

[Front Ranger]

Just now, Rubus Leucodermis said:

It's also logically consistent to fight for what benefits one's own team.

Sure, both can be true. But still more logically consistent for him to now want to be off the ballot. Considering he endorsed another candidate.

[Rubus Leucodermis]

2 minutes ago, Front Ranger said:

Sure, both can be true. But still more logically consistent for him to now want to be off the ballot. Considering he endorsed another candidate.

On the other hand, he claimed he was doing it to provide an alternative, and then lost interest in providing an alternative.

Of couse, no one with an IQ above Fahrenheit room temperature believed that provide-an-alternative crap. He was in it to help Trump all along. So, completely consistent!

[Tenochtitlan]

37 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

Only the best thinkers for the conservatives.  This $hit rolls down hill, as we've seen in these threads.  It won't be long until Andrew says something similar.

 

Whether people here do or not will be a test of whether this thread is truly a politer version.

[Front Ranger]

8 minutes ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

On the other hand, he claimed he was doing it to provide an alternative, and then lost interest in providing an alternative.

Of couse, no one with an IQ above Fahrenheit room temperature believed that provide-an-alternative crap. He was in it to help Trump all along. So, completely consistent!

You don't think he changed his mind, after seeing where things were going? Kinda how Vance changed his mind about Trump?

Motivations are debatable, but I'm not convinced this was RFK or Trump's master plan all along.

[Rubus Leucodermis]

8 minutes ago, Tenochtitlan said:

Whether people here do or not will be a test of whether this thread is truly a politer version.

I am quite certain that any increase in politeness will prove temporary.

[Rubus Leucodermis]

5 minutes ago, Front Ranger said:

You don't think he changed his mind, after seeing where things were going? Kinda how Vance changed his mind about Trump?

Motivations are debatable, but I'm not convinced this was RFK or Trump's master plan all along.

Absolutely he changed his mind after seeing where things were going. As soon as Biden dropped out and Harris stepped up, polling shifted from showing RFK hurting Biden more to showing RFK hurting Trump more. And, being a closet Trumper all along, RFK did not like the latter.

I know that as a committed both-sides-ist who wants to feel better about Trump, that might not be the most convenient thing to believe, but it is the simplest explanation consistent with observed facts.

RFK wanted to help Trump, therefore new data prompted him to drop out. The Democrats wanted to hurt Trump, therefore new data prompted them to want to keep RFK in. Both are being completely consistent in the pursuit of self-interest.

[SilverFallsAndrew]

Just now, Rubus Leucodermis said:

Absolutely he changed his mind after seeing where things were going. As soon as Biden dropped out and Harris stepped up, polling shifted from showing RFK hurting Biden more to showing RFK hurting Trump more. And, being a closet Trumper all along, RFK did not like the latter.

I know that as a committed both-sides-ist who wants to feel better about Trump, that might not be the most convenient thing to believe, but it is the simplest explanation consistent with observed facts.

I do agree that RFK was always more motivated to hurt the Democrat candidate. 

[SnarkyGoblin]

6 minutes ago, Tenochtitlan said:

Whether people here do or not will be a test of whether this thread is truly a politer version.

History likes to repeat itself.

[Front Ranger]

8 minutes ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

Absolutely he changed his mind after seeing where things were going. As soon as Biden dropped out and Harris stepped up, polling shifted from showing RFK hurting Biden more to showing RFK hurting Trump more. And, being a closet Trumper all along, RFK did not like the latter.

I know that as a committed both-sides-ist who wants to feel better about Trump, that might not be the most convenient thing to believe, but it is the simplest explanation consistent with observed facts.

RFK wanted to help Trump, therefore new data prompted him to drop out. The Democrats wanted to hurt Trump, therefore new data prompted them to want to keep RFK in. Both are being completely consistent in the pursuit of self-interest.

I think it's more convenient for leftists to believe that anyone currently on Trump's side was always secretly on his side.

There's no other possible explanation!!

[Rubus Leucodermis]

7 minutes ago, Front Ranger said:

I think it's more convenient for leftists to believe that anyone currently on Trump's side was always secretly on his side.

There's no other possible explanation!!

Sure there's other possible explanations, but not simpler ones.

Occam's Razor isn't a proof of anything, but it does provide a good starting point for conjectures.

[Rubus Leucodermis]

43 minutes ago, smerfylicious said:

Wait til you find out what her nickname was at the San Francisco DA office when she was there!  

Cool, then you can vote for Trump extra super-duper enthusiastically instead of plain old enthusiastically.

Which still nets the orange one a single vote. Meanwhile, the weird and the mean alienate fence-sitters.

[SilverFallsAndrew]

Just now, Rubus Leucodermis said:

Cool, then you can vote for Trump extra super-duper enthusiastically instead of plain old enthusiastically.

Which still nets the orange one a single vote. Meanwhile, the weird and the mean alienate fence-sitters.

I think most people know how Harris got her start. 

[SilverFallsAndrew]

Trump 3:16

For Trump so loved the United States of America, and all of the blessed souls contained within, he gave up a life of ease and luxury, and took on the slings and arrows of the evil, so that our Union could be saved, and not perish from this earth, but have everlasting life. 

[SilverFallsAndrew]

Oh. No.

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/hate-speech-x-twitter-john-cena-1235085138/

[SilverFallsAndrew]

GAVIN is PISSED about Harris. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/column-the-harris-newsom-competition-is-over-and-it-s-clear-who-won-the-governor-doesn-t-seem-happy/ar-AA1pvmDo

[Anti Marine Layer]

5 minutes ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

GAVIN is PISSED about Harris. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/column-the-harris-newsom-competition-is-over-and-it-s-clear-who-won-the-governor-doesn-t-seem-happy/ar-AA1pvmDo

Governor Gruesome 

[SilverFallsAndrew]

17 minutes ago, Anti Marine Layer said:

Governor Gruesome 

Not sure why he fell in line so quickly. 

[StormchaserChuck1]

2 hours ago, Tenochtitlan said:

I don’t care about per-capita gdp I care about people’s quality of life. France’s life expectancy is 82 and barely fell during Covid…Arkansas’ is 75 or so. Evidently all dollars are not created equal. If you want to live a long and healthy life and you’re not rich, the US isn’t really the place to be. 

Minneapolis and Boston are well over 80.. what's so special about Arkansas? 

This is US counties with life expectancy over 80:

[Anti Marine Layer]

32 minutes ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

Trump 3:16

For Trump so loved the United States of America, and all of the blessed souls contained within, he gave up a life of ease and luxury, and took on the slings and arrows of the evil, so that our Union could be saved, and not perish from this earth, but have everlasting life. 

A message to Democrats today 

[Tenochtitlan]

2 minutes ago, StormchaserChuck1 said:

Minneapolis and Boston are well over 80.. what's so special about Arkansas? 

This is US counties with life expectancy over 80:

When is that map from? It looks outdated: average life expectancy in the country is now about 77.5 years and iirc there are no states aside from Hawaii with an average over 80.

[Anti Marine Layer]

Oh no!

[StormchaserChuck1]

1 minute ago, Tenochtitlan said:

When is that map from? It looks outdated: average life expectancy in the country is now about 77.5 years and iirc there are no states aside from Hawaii with an average over 80.

I think 2023.. I get those maps from sources I follow on Facebook, and they are usually from 2023. 

I wouldn't think it would be going backwards. 

[Groundhog]

7 hours ago, iFred said:

New thread by popular demand.

A few things to note here:
- This thread is indexed by search engines and AI crawlers, that means if UserABC talks about the need to cleanse the Earth of a demographic or ethnicity, then it means that anyone can see that
- If you think I or another moderator is unjustly censoring you, please take a break and go enjoy the weather
- We are a weather forum first, not /pol/, so if it becomes a dumping ground for 2EDGY4U posts, I'll shut it down
- This is not a "free speech zone"
- I reserve the right to think that a couple of you are genuinely terrible people, provided that the online identity you have invested so much time in is a reflection of who you are in meatspace. You reserve the right to do the same with me.
- For future generations of weather nerds and politicos, I'm not a Marxist and think both sides are pretty dumb. Both sides!
- taking stuff from here and bringing it to a weather forum discussion will result in a ban

Lastly, any attacks on a group of people based on race, religion, sexuality, or medical condition will result in a ban.

I’ll say what I’m about to say at the risk of cancelation. I might be exaggerating that risk, but it’s hard to tell. 

I’ll agree that calling to “cleanse the Earth of a demographic of ethnicity” is verboten. But in saying this is not a free speech zone, does that mean bloody noses don’t or shouldn’t happen? Saying and calling for “polite politics” is like advocating for no contact boxing. It’s an incoherent request. What were they saying at the DNC? “When we fight we win.” It is deliberately equating a political campaign to a war. Is that polite? If anyone here doesn’t have a problem with that slogan (I don’t, just the party using it) but takes offence here, that’s an inconsistency in you (plural). 

When I was reading a book on Lincoln, I learned that the debates between him and Douglas had spittle flying with barbs of “liar!” thrown about. It was personal. Those were not polite debates. When the Union was crumbling, however, Douglas messaged that he was ready to help Lincoln. Despite the harsh personal barbs and accusations, both men exemplified “with malice to none.” No grudges held. They practiced the art of disagreement well. (Too bad Douglas passed away prior to honouring that commitment). You practice it well by fighting, not trying to maintain a sterile environment. We can like and comment on a member’s post re: meteorology yet think and express that they hold daft political views with glaring blind spots. I think that’s malice towards none yet fighting to win. (A good political essay would be we’ve lost the art of disagreement and need more of it, not less to depolarize). 

 

@Rubus Leucodermis, I remember responding to a post of yours that you closed with telling me to GTFO. I didn’t respond to that specifically but the substance of what you said. I didn’t report it. I didn’t say “that’s not polite.” Because politics is a sparring match and you threw a punch intending to clock me in the head. That’s politics. I’m not asking for an apology. 

 

@TT-SEA, @SnarkyGoblin, @Rubus Leucodermis, and @Tenochtitlan especially, your politics baffles me. I see unacknowledged inconsistencies and blind spots. Go ahead and say the same of me as long as you bring receipts. But if we met over a meal or coffee, I would think we would have a good conversation about our lives: families, hobbies, sports,  favourite weather events. I don’t think less of you. We can be polite with civil  banter and the odd ribbing about weather. But we can be Lincoln vs Douglas here. 
 

What will happen on a political thread is that it’ll wither and die if it’s no-contact boxing. Too sterile. Too fake. Or it’ll gradually slip back into contact boxing as it’s inherently a contact sport. 

If you want to tell a middle-aged Canadian keyboard warrior to GTFO after this post, your call, @iFred. Because one Canadian windbag could be construed as a threat to democracy and more of a  threat of election interference than those pesky  Russians and Chinese.  “We fight. We win.” 

[Tenochtitlan]

9 minutes ago, StormchaserChuck1 said:

I think 2023.. I get those maps from sources I follow on Facebook, and they are usually from 2023. 

I wouldn't think it would be going backwards. 

It actually is going backwards. There was a huge dip in 2020-2022 and it has only partially recovered since then. Google “USA life expectancy” and then try the same with other countries. You can see line graphs of life expectancy over the last few decades and compare between countries. It’s eye-opening and very interesting.

We’re currently sitting at roughly the same life expectancy that we were in 2000. Some other countries like Mexico have seen even larger declines. Meanwhile, Covid hardly affected certain countries, like Japan, in this statistic. 

This is an area we did used to be a world leader in, now we are just in the top third or so of countries. 

[Tenochtitlan]

5 minutes ago, Groundhog said:

 

I’ll say what I’m about to say at the risk of cancelation. I might be exaggerating that risk, but it’s hard to tell. 

I’ll agree that calling to “cleanse the Earth of a demographic of ethnicity” is verboten. But in saying this is not a free speech zone, does that mean bloody noses don’t or shouldn’t happen? Saying and calling for “polite politics” is like advocating for no contact boxing. It’s an incoherent request. What were they saying at the DNC? “When we fight we win.” It is deliberately equating a political campaign to a war. Is that polite? If anyone here doesn’t have a problem with that slogan (I don’t, just the party using it) but takes offence here, that’s an inconsistency in you (plural). 

When I was reading a book on Lincoln, I learned that the debates between him and Douglas had spittle flying with barbs of “liar!” thrown about. It was personal. Those were not polite debates. When the Union was crumbling, however, Douglas messaged that he was ready to help Lincoln. Despite the harsh personal barbs and accusations, both men exemplified “with malice to none.” No grudges held. They practiced the art of disagreement well. (Too bad Douglas passed away prior to honouring that commitment). You practice it well by fighting, not trying to maintain a sterile environment. We can like and comment on a member’s post re: meteorology yet think and express that they hold daft political views with glaring blind spots. I think that’s malice towards none yet fighting to win. (A good political essay would be we’ve lost the art of disagreement and need more of it, not less to depolarize). 

 

@Rubus Leucodermis, I remember responding to a post of yours that you closed with telling me to GTFO. I didn’t respond to that specifically but the substance of what you said. I didn’t report it. I didn’t say “that’s not polite.” Because politics is a sparring match and you threw a punch intending to clock me in the head. That’s politics. I’m not asking for an apology. 

 

@TT-SEA, @SnarkyGoblin, @Rubus Leucodermis, and @Tenochtitlan especially, your politics baffles me. I see unacknowledged inconsistencies and blind spots. Go ahead and say the same of me as long as you bring receipts. But if we met over a meal or coffee, I would think we would have a good conversation about our lives: families, hobbies, sports,  favourite weather events. I don’t think less of you. We can be polite with civil  banter and the odd ribbing about weather. But we can be Lincoln vs Douglas here. 
 

What will happen on a political thread is that it’ll wither and die if it’s no-contact boxing. Too sterile. Too fake. Or it’ll gradually slip back into contact boxing as it’s inherently a contact sport. 

If you want to tell a middle-aged Canadian keyboard warrior to GTFO after this post, your call, @iFred. Because one Canadian windbag could be construed as a threat to democracy and more of a  threat of election interference than those pesky  Russians and Chinese.  “We fight. We win.” 

I’m honored to be called out specifically!

[Rubus Leucodermis]

Well, I’m not going to be telling anyone to STFU or GTFO for a few more days at least since I’m about to go on a camping trip and be away from the Internet. Hoping to find some tasty wild mushrooms now that they are coming up.

[TacomaWx]

7 minutes ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

Well, I’m not going to be telling anyone to STFU or GTFO for a few more days at least since I’m about to go on a camping trip and be away from the Internet. Hoping to find some tasty wild mushrooms now that they are coming up.

STFU and GTFO nerd 

[SilverFallsAndrew]

19 minutes ago, Tenochtitlan said:

It actually is going backwards. There was a huge dip in 2020-2022 and it has only partially recovered since then. Google “USA life expectancy” and then try the same with other countries. You can see line graphs of life expectancy over the last few decades and compare between countries. It’s eye-opening and very interesting.

We’re currently sitting at roughly the same life expectancy that we were in 2000. Some other countries like Mexico have seen even larger declines. Meanwhile, Covid hardly affected certain countries, like Japan, in this statistic. 

This is an area we did used to be a world leader in, now we are just in the top third or so of countries. 

Obesity and the opioid epidemic are a major part of it. We also have so much chronic disease, in large part due to our terrible diets sedentary lifestyles. 

People in a poorer state like Arkansas just don't generally have access to very healthy food, due to the economics of how expensive it can be to eat a diet of healthy fresh food. There is more to it than that, but the pharmaceutical industry in this country bears a lot of the blame, and we can't avoid mentioning the fact young people in the USA die at astonishing rates due to gun violence.  

[SilverFallsAndrew]

It's been 10 years since Obama shocked the nation by wearing a tan suit. 

[Tenochtitlan]

2 minutes ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

Obesity and the opioid epidemic are a major part of it. We also have so much chronic disease, in large part due to our terrible diets sedentary lifestyles. 

People in a poorer state like Arkansas just don't generally have access to very healthy food, due to the economics of how expensive it can be to eat a diet of healthy fresh food. There is more to it than that, but the pharmaceutical industry in this country bears a lot of the blame, and we can't avoid mentioning the fact young people in the USA die at astonishing rates due to gun violence.  

All true. I don’t know enough about the food system to understand why, but something is going on that makes a healthy diet much more out of reach in the US than it needs to be. 

Healthcare in rural areas is in a terrible state these days. Lots of hospitals shutting down and people with chronic conditions who get left behind.

The opioid crisis also plays off the economic depression in those areas. I’ve read some heartbreaking articles about Appalachia. It’s so sad how that part of the country has been basically forgotten. DuPont and other companies have also seriously polluted the water and land which has caused a lot of disease. 

[snow_wizard]

4 hours ago, Tenochtitlan said:

I don’t care about per-capita gdp I care about people’s quality of life. France’s life expectancy is 82 and barely fell during Covid…Arkansas’ is 75 or so. Evidently all dollars are not created equal. If you want to live a long and healthy life and you’re not rich, the US isn’t really the place to be. 

It's pretty much diet that accounts for the different life expectancy.

[snow_wizard]

36 minutes ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

It's been 10 years since Obama shocked the nation by wearing a tan suit. 

Somehow I missed that!

[snow_wizard]

40 minutes ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

Obesity and the opioid epidemic are a major part of it. We also have so much chronic disease, in large part due to our terrible diets sedentary lifestyles. 

People in a poorer state like Arkansas just don't generally have access to very healthy food, due to the economics of how expensive it can be to eat a diet of healthy fresh food. There is more to it than that, but the pharmaceutical industry in this country bears a lot of the blame, and we can't avoid mentioning the fact young people in the USA die at astonishing rates due to gun violence.  

Good points.  I think it's worth really digging into the numbers to find out why people in France live so much longer.  I highly doubt it's the state run medicine.  

[Tenochtitlan]

6 minutes ago, snow_wizard said:

It's pretty much diet that accounts for the different life expectancy.

And you say this based on what? 

Just look at the disparities in life expectancy between the richest and poorest counties. Income is strongly tied to how long people live. 

The poorest counties in West Virginia and Kentucky have life expectancies around 70 years! Read some stories about them and you’ll discover a slew of issues: opioid addiction, poverty, food scarcity, pollution and more. There’s a lot going on there contributing to different health outcomes. 
 

For starters, they are some of the only counties where life expectancy dropped in the 90s and 2000s (might be getting the specific decades wrong but the time before the recent general plateau and decline of life expectancy in this country), coinciding with all the mining jobs leaving the area and worsening poverty.

[SnarkyGoblin]

42 minutes ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

Obesity and the opioid epidemic are a major part of it. We also have so much chronic disease, in large part due to our terrible diets sedentary lifestyles. 

People in a poorer state like Arkansas just don't generally have access to very healthy food, due to the economics of how expensive it can be to eat a diet of healthy fresh food. There is more to it than that, but the pharmaceutical industry in this country bears a lot of the blame, and we can't avoid mentioning the fact young people in the USA die at astonishing rates due to gun violence.  

What an insightful amount of words. 

Being serious.

[Front Ranger]

2 minutes ago, Tenochtitlan said:

And you say this based on what? 

Just look at the disparities in life expectancy between the richest and poorest counties. Income is strongly tied to how long people live. 

The top causes of death in this country are mainly related to heart disease, which is strongly correlated with an unhealthy diet.