November 2024 PNW Weather Discussion

[SnowWillarrive]

Needed a quick dopamine hit this afternoon. I guess that is the good thing about this climate. Snow is always near by. 
 

[Slushy Inch]

35 minutes ago, SnowWillarrive said:

Needed a quick dopamine hit this afternoon. I guess that is the good thing about this climate. Snow is always near by. 
 

I think it’s been a couple years since the mountains have actually got good snow in November.

[iFred]

1 hour ago, Phishy Wx said:

nothing

Spokane Jesse.

[Sunriver Snow Zone]

39 for a high today and low of 32, 37/31 yesterday with 3¼ of snow. Just scraps remains today. 

Went up to the mountains to ski for the first time of the season, snow was pretty decent for early November.

[Phishy Wx]

 

 

[Brian_in_Leavenworth]

53 minutes ago, Slushy Inch said:

I think it’s been a couple years since the mountains have actually got good snow in November.

November 2022 had great snow in the Cascades.  It was the deepest December 1st snowpack in 15 years.  Most snow in November in Leavenworth in many decades.

Edited November 2 by Brian_in_Leavenworth

[MossMan]

42 minutes ago, Brian_in_Leavenworth said:

November 2022 had great snow in the Cascades.  It was the deepest December 1st snowpack in 15 years.  Most snow in November in Leavenworth in many decades.

I was in Omak the beginning of December 2022…Talking to the locals while I was there for work they said it started in late October and just became relentless with snowfall after snowfall…The amount of cold and snow that early in the season was a surprise to them. 

[Skagit Weather]

54 minutes ago, Brian_in_Leavenworth said:

November 2022 had great snow in the Cascades.  It was the deepest December 1st snowpack in 15 years.  Most snow in November in Leavenworth in many decades.

2022 was nice, but tended to have a relatively strong north/south gradient and was much more impressive to the south. The last time we had a universally snowy November through the Washington Cascades was 2011. This is the Snow Water Equivalent (SWE) for December 1 from those two years.

2022

2011

[KeyPeninsula_Wx]

November 2022 was great, quite chilly throughout and we had our snowiest November since 2010! 

[MossMan]

It’s going to snow this much this season! 

 

Edited November 3 by MossMan

[Brian_in_Leavenworth]

11 minutes ago, Skagit Weather said:

2022 was nice, but tended to have a relatively strong north/south gradient and was much more impressive to the south. The last time we had a universally snowy November through the Washington Cascades was 2011. This is the Snow Water Equivalent (SWE) for December 1 from those two years.

2022

2011

We are in the Central Washington Cascades, it was the snowiest November since 1984.  Don't know specifically about the Cascades in Northern Washington, but Mt. Baker opened up in mid November, which is earlier than normal.  

But read what Mossman said about Omak, in the North Cascades not far from Canada.  Might not reflect what was going on at the top of the North Cascades as they are a bit East, but it was more than just 'nice'.

Since it was colder than normal, the amount of snow on the ground was probably more impressive than the water equivalent.

 

[The Blob]

9 hour shift, I can do this...

[Skagit Weather]

11 minutes ago, Brian_in_Leavenworth said:

We are in the Central Washington Cascades, it was the snowiest November since 1984.  Don't know specifically about the Cascades in Northern Washington, but Mt. Baker opened up in mid November, which is earlier than normal.  

But read what Mossman said about Omak, in the North Cascades not far from Canada.  Might not reflect what was going on at the top of the North Cascades as they are a bit East, but it was more than just 'nice'.

Since it was colder than normal, the amount of snow on the ground was probably more impressive than the water equivalent.

 

"Nice" was not meant to downplay what happened in 2022, I just meant that 2022 wasn't particularly record breaking throughout much of the Cascades. What was unique about November 2022, as you mention, is how cold it was, which allowed significant snow to fall down at elevations as low as Leavenworth. As you also mention, Leavenworth (with 31.3" of snow for the station I can find online) had the most snow in November since 1984. But, if we look at the higher elevations in the Central Cascades, there were more recent Novembers than 1984 which were snowier.

Stevens Pass recorded 79" of snow in November 2022. It had more snow in the Novembers of 2020 (88"), 2017 (82"), 2011 (92"), 2009 (114"), and 2006 (96") just to name a few.

We can also look at nearby SNOTEL sites. The closest one to Leavenworth is Blewett Pass at 4,200'. 2022, 2020, and 2011 were all very similar in the snow water equivalent by the end of December while 2006 was significantly higher (almost twice as much).

Another relatively near station is Fish Lake, up the Cle Elum Valley at 3,400'. The long term average of SWE is 4.3" on December 1st. In 2022 this station was at 5.8" which was significantly lower than 2011 (8.8") and 2006 (10.1"). Unfortunately there aren't any stations closer to Leavenworth, but it's pretty clear that while elevations below 2,000' (Including Plain) saw their snowiest November in 40 years, there have been many recent snowier Novembers for elevations above 3,000' in the Central WA Cascades.

[SnowWillarrive]

Totally off topic but I was just reading about the Fox Glacier in New Zealand. It terminates at an altitude of about 1,000 feet. That is dam impressive considering it is only at 43 degrees south latitude. The upper glacier gets massive snow falls that helps feed this monster pushing into lower elevations. 

For perspective the Carbon Glacier terminates around 3700 feet. 

 

[Ken in Wood Village]

30 minutes ago, The Blob said:

9 hour shift, I can do this...

I know the feeling. Also had a mandatory Saturday work. It's going to be like this until Thanksgiving. At least the paycheck will look good

[Skagit Weather]

15 minutes ago, SnowWillarrive said:

Totally off topic but I was just reading about the Fox Glacier in New Zealand. It terminates at an altitude of about 1,000 feet. That is dam impressive considering it is only at 43 degrees south latitude. The upper glacier gets massive snow falls that helps feed this monster pushing into lower elevations. 

For perspective the Carbon Glacier terminates around 3700 feet. 

 

Yeah, definitely some extremely impressive glaciers in the southern hemisphere. The San Rafael Glacier in Chile is the tidewater glacier closest to the equator at 46ºS meaning it would be the equivalent of having a glacier calving into the ocean at Westport.

[snow_wizard]

6 minutes ago, Skagit Weather said:

Yeah, definitely some extremely impressive glaciers in the southern hemisphere. The San Rafael Glacier in Chile is the tidewater glacier closest to the equator at 46ºS meaning it would be the equivalent of having a glacier calving into the ocean at Westport.

I think there a couple of glaciers down there that are actually advancing right now.  I think the reason the glaciers get so low in the SH compared to the north is South America gets such cool summers long the West Coast.  The NH has so much more land mass that the summers are way warmer.

[Skagit Weather]

Closer to us, the Klinaklini Glacier coming off of the Silverthone Massif in BC is pretty impressive. It terminates about 500' and is located at 51ºN. Goes to show how much more maritime the climate is in the Coast Range than for Rainier.

[Skagit Weather]

1 minute ago, snow_wizard said:

I think there a couple of glaciers down there that are actually advancing right now.  I think the reason the glaciers get so low in the SH compared to the north is South America gets such cool summers long the West Coast.  The NH has so much more land mass that the summers are way warmer.

Oh yeah, it's definitely the lack of summer heat. There are very few places in the world that have as warm and dry of summers as we do in the PNW that still support mid elevation glaciers.  Copious quantities of snow during the rainy season can only go so far to protecting mid elevation glaciers. No matter how snowy our winters are, if we continue to have such warm summers, we will continue to see rapid glacial retreat in the Cascades.

[Tenochtitlan]

6 minutes ago, snow_wizard said:

I think there a couple of glaciers down there that are actually advancing right now.  I think the reason the glaciers get so low in the SH compared to the north is South America gets such cool summers long the West Coast.  The NH has so much more land mass that the summers are way warmer.

There’s one glacier in Chile that is advancing: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brüggen_Glacier

Pretty wild, this is the same equivalent latitude as Vancouver BC.

Southern Chile’s climate is even more moderate than here. Puerto Aysén has a similar winter to Seattle temperature-wise, but the record low is just 16 degrees:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Aysén

[Tenochtitlan]

Here’s an Argentinian city with an interesting climate (scroll to the geography section to see the climate data):

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bariloche

Winters aren’t bad, they get a decent amount of snow (4 feet apparently, though it’s highly dependent on elevation). The absurd summer lows would drive me crazy, though! 

[Skagit Weather]

3 minutes ago, Tenochtitlan said:

Here’s an Argentinian city with an interesting climate (scroll to the geography section to see the climate data):

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bariloche

Winters aren’t bad, they get a decent amount of snow (4 feet apparently, though it’s highly dependent on elevation). The absurd summer lows would drive me crazy, though! 

Whoa! That is a wild climate! It has the same average summer high as Bellingham and almost as much rain, but can drop below 20F in the middle of the summer! Sounds very windy as well.

[Tenochtitlan]

3 minutes ago, Skagit Weather said:

Whoa! That is a wild climate! It has the same average summer high as Bellingham and almost as much rain, but can drop below 20F in the middle of the summer! Sounds very windy as well.

Yeah, I wonder what causes those chilly lows. I found a website with yearly records, and subfreezing summer lows look pretty regular there. No tomatoes! 

Here is another weird climate:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Calafate

A chilly maritime desert. No thanks! 

[SnowWillarrive]

43 minutes ago, Skagit Weather said:

Yeah, definitely some extremely impressive glaciers in the southern hemisphere. The San Rafael Glacier in Chile is the tidewater glacier closest to the equator at 46ºS meaning it would be the equivalent of having a glacier calving into the ocean at Westport.

According to some the Andes and Patagonia might be one the snowiest place in the world. It is believed that they have some seasons approaching 2000 inches. None of it has been officially recorded though. 

Of course the Cascades and the Costal Ranges of BC and Alaska are in that category as well. 

[TigerWoodsLibido]

50F and cloudy with the occasional shower.

[SilverFallsAndrew]

CFS is looking good for this winter. 

[Skagit Weather]

47 minutes ago, Tenochtitlan said:

Yeah, I wonder what causes those chilly lows. I found a website with yearly records, and subfreezing summer lows look pretty regular there. No tomatoes! 

Here is another weird climate:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Calafate

A chilly maritime desert. No thanks! 

I'd imagine it has to do with low humidity, winds coming off the peaks/lakes to the east, and the relatively high elevation (3,000'). Looks like the Andes crest down there is only about 4,000'.

[SpaceRace22]

For tonight's schizophrenic derangement, how about another January 1950 on steroids?

While I post these for pure delusional entertainment value and laughs, I gotta say it's hard not to get at least a little excited about the fact that at least 1 CFS control run a day has been showing 1-3 months that would be exponentially colder than even most anomalously cold months in the history of the PNW, lol.

[Snownerd3000]

I too like to day dream

[snow_wizard]

2 hours ago, Tenochtitlan said:

Yeah, I wonder what causes those chilly lows. I found a website with yearly records, and subfreezing summer lows look pretty regular there. No tomatoes! 

Here is another weird climate:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Calafate

A chilly maritime desert. No thanks! 

I think it's occasional intrusions of cold air from Antarctica.  Even New Zealand gets that in some places. Despite being a small island it still experiences some of the oddities of South America.  No way it's anything to with continental influence there.

[snow_wizard]

5 minutes ago, SpaceRace22 said:

For tonight's schizophrenic derangement, how about another January 1950 on steroids?

While I post these for pure delusional entertainment value and laughs, I gotta say it's hard not to get at least a little excited about the fact that at least 1 CFS control run a day has been showing 1-3 months that would be exponentially colder than even most anomalously cold months in the history of the PNW, lol.

This solution is coming up repeatedly.  Certainly interesting.  

[SpaceRace22]

1 minute ago, Snownerd3000 said:

I too like to day dream

pretty sure at this point I get significantly more entertainment out of misusing clown range frames of individual model runs than I do from actual extreme weather occurring irl

[snow_wizard]

Liking the general theme of amplification on the models lately.

[Tenochtitlan]

3 minutes ago, snow_wizard said:

I think it's occasional intrusions of cold air from Antarctica.  Even New Zealand gets that in some places. Despite being a small island it still experiences some of the oddities of South America.  No way it's anything to with continental influence there.

For fun, this is the most continental climate in New Zealand:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandra,_New_Zealand

It’s quite similar to Sequim with colder winter lows and less seasonality in precipitation. 

[snow_wizard]

Even the multi run composites are going pretty crazy for January this winter.  Maybe it will finally happen.  

[snow_wizard]

7 minutes ago, Tenochtitlan said:

For fun, this is the most continental climate in New Zealand:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandra,_New_Zealand

It’s quite similar to Sequim with colder winter lows and less seasonality in precipitation. 

Yes.  I remember looking at that area a few years ago.  Incredible they can get freezing mins every month of the year in spite of being at 45 degrees latitude and only 500 feet above sea level.  Even crazier when you consider it's an island.  

[SilverFallsAndrew]

00z was pretty decent. Some nice storms for California showing up in the long range.

[Tenochtitlan]

6 minutes ago, snow_wizard said:

Yes.  I remember looking at that area a few years ago.  Incredible they can get freezing mins every month of the year in spite of being at 45 degrees latitude and only 500 feet above sea level.  Even crazier when you consider it's an island.  

Quite a contrast to the extreme north of New Zealand where freezes are nearly unheard of:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whangārei

Completely unlike any climate in the US. The closest would probably be somewhere in Hawaii at 5,000 feet. 

[ShawniganLake]

Rain looks pretty heavy tomorrow night across Vancouver Island  

 

 

[Slushy Inch]

Need eps to look like this. Much better than I expected.