Tom Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 00z EPS follows the SE trend...not only do we see the models picking up on a weakening SLP as it tracks towards the Lower Lakes, the "kicker" storm tracking into the PAC NW and riding down the west coast into AZ/NW from the 31st into the 1st of the new year, ends up following a similar track on the heals of the New Year's system which could be another "surprise" piece to this very complex system. I'm seeing many more ensemble members showing this Upper Level feature tracking across TX/OK into MO/IL/IN through the 2nd/3rd of Jan that could lay down a few inches of additional snow. Looking better for KC folks into SE IA/S WI and parts of N IL...as well as, into S MI... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinton Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 0z Euro comes in a little colder and further south. Stoll to much ice in mby 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinton Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 Watch issued. ...WINTER STORM WATCH REMAINS IN EFFECT FROM THURSDAY EVENING THROUGH FRIDAY AFTERNOON... * WHAT...Heavy mixed precipitation possible. Total snow accumulations of 1 to 3 inches and ice accumulations of up to three tenths of an inch possible. * WHERE...Portions of east central and northeast Kansas and central, north central, northeast, northwest and west central Missouri. * WHEN...From Thursday evening through Friday afternoon. * IMPACTS...Plan on slippery road conditions. The hazardous conditions could impact the morning or evening commute. PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS... Monitor t 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinton Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 This mornings AFD With the departure of one system, attention quickly shifts to the next system deepening across northern Mexico. This system is expected to have a unique track moving from southern Texas into the southern and central plains as upper ridge across the southeastern US prevents little eastward movement. Models have come into better agreement on the trajectory of this system over the past 12-24 hours, with good agreement of quickly deteriorating conditions late on New Years Eve and continuing into New Years Day. This system seems to have a wealth of warm air aloft near 850 mb ahead of the system leading to mixed precipitation for at least the first half of the event. Expect non diurnal temperatures Thursday night into Friday morning as strong warm air advection leads to isentropic lift expanding from south to north. Near surface layer should evaporatively cool as the precipitation begins, locking cooler air in near the surface at least initially. Strong inversion should keep the favored precipitation type in liquid form, but with surface temperatures sub freezing, could be looking at another icing event around the region. Models show fairly significant cooling ~850 mb in the 12-18Z time frame on Tuesday as upper low approaches from the south. If this cooling occurs, precipitation will likely try to switch over to snow. Am a bit concerned that the amount of cooling may be a bit overdone, which could potentially lead to even more ice than models are suggesting. Models are alos hintng at inverted trough type feature, so should be interesting to see how the thermal structure of this system evolves. NAM and GFS suggest potential for 0.25 -0.50"+ of ice across much of the forecast area. WPC WSO page suggests 30-50+% of exceeding a quarter of an inch of ice, with the greatest focus along and south of a line from St. Joseph to Kirksville. With impacts expected on holiday and being significant, collaborated a winter storm watch with surrounding offices to the west. This system is expected to exit to the northeast late on New Years Day as low moves north of ridge across the southeast and becomes more influenced by the prevailing westerlies. The active pattern is expected to continue into Saturday as a second system follows on the heals of the New Year`s Day system. This system is expected to be influenced by an unusually strong southern branch of the upper jet. As system deepens and becomes better organized, could see light snow develop across central and eastern Missouri. Through collaboration with southern and eastern surrounding offices, raised pops to 75% of guidance values. With cloud, and lingering low level cold air advection, have also reduced high temperatures on Saturday. Southern branch of the upper jet is expected to weaken next week, potentially leading to quieter weather across Missouri. With that said, northern branch of the jet becomes dominant and a series of waves are expected to move across the northern half of the US. For now, have stuck close to the blend which suggests a warming trend to above normal levels by early-mid week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinton Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 6z RGEM (yes please) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinton Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 6z ICON and GFS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, Clinton said: 6z RGEM (yes please) The Canadian’s leading the way...again??? If today’s 12z runs continue to show the SE shift, I’ll be more comfortable with my chances of seeing SN. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinton Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, Tom said: The Canadian’s leading the way...again??? If today’s 12z runs continue to show the SE shift, I’ll be more comfortable with my chances of seeing SN. When I read my offices AFD this morning and they referenced only the GFS and NAM all I could do was shake my head. No mention of the Euro or CMC. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinton Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 Good trends: 6z Euro trends colder. I think we've seen this before. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james1976 Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 Sucks that it turns east so quickly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Dubzz Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 Guess it’s time to turn the attention to this one, though my expectations are basically zilch at this point. Would be nice to pick up a couple extra inches of snow, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowstorm83 Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 26 minutes ago, james1976 said: Sucks that it turns east so quickly Like it shoots north and then I-80 pushes it down Quote Snowfall in Lincoln, NE: 2017-18: 21.4" 2018-19: 55.5" 2019-20: 17.6" 2020-21: 49.4" 2021-22: 5.1" Average: 26" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinton Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 Just looked at last nights UKIE. It sure is different than the other models. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKEKC Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 Beautiful day yesterday in KC north. We started as snow, quite heavy at times, then sleet, then snow, then sleet, then heavy freezing rain, then snow, then heavy sleet. Followed by heavy rain that put .25 inches of ice on my trees. End result, a mess on the roads especially north of the MO river. Another huge bonus, over 1 inch of moisture throughout the city and widespread. WE NEEDED IT! So, as a snow contractor, my fleet had to apply multiple rounds of salt yesterday...$$$$$ The data from several models had us rising to the 40's to get rid of the ice on the trees and streets, we only made it to 33 in KC north and we have a heavy layer of ice on everything this morning. I would call this a mini ice storm for the north side of KC. Now, round two coming and it could be bigger for KC. We'll see! tracking the data, look forward to all the maps. Keep them coming Clinton. (I like the UKMET, that benefits both of us....colder solution) I'm with you, not a fan of ice. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 All models are trending way SE w this one and colder. Even Euro is on board. 1 1 Quote Snowfall for Winter 2023 -24 for Metro Detroit Area Oct 2023: 0.2" AN Nov 2023: 2.2" AN Dec 2023: 0.5" BN Insane! Jan 2024: 17.0" AN Feb 2024: 1.9" BN Mar 2024: 4.9" BN April 2024: Season So Far: 26.7" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinton Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 12z GFS trended colder but weaker and more icy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james1976 Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 Des Moines with an interesting write up. Mentions the NAM and a more north solution. And even thundersnow! I still think this misses me though. The primary forecast challenge this forecast period is the the closed low lifting north from northern Mexico and toward central Missouri. While this is unusual, there is a relatively stout sub- tropical high from the eastern Gulf and into the Caribbean, forcing the upper low to the north. There are a plethora of complexities with this system which is causing havoc on predicting precipitation types and amounts. The system does have an impressive yet focused warm conveyor of moisture wrapping around the parent low with PWATs increasing to above 0.5 inches. The northern edge will have some erosion due to very dry air on the north edge from high pressure. At this time, it does appear that southeast Iowa will get into the region of a wintry mix with snow and freezing rain possible. The GFS ensembles hold this precipitation farther to the south while the deterministic NAM and the ECMWF ensembles are farther north. Given the amount of forcing associated with this system, precipitation loading with strong forcing tends to lead to accumulations farther north than models tend to suggest. How far north the mixed precipitation gets is in question as much of the warm layer exists in the very dry layer and precipitation loading and subsequent evaporative cooling could drive these warmer temperatures down with the result being snow. A deep isothermal layer just below 0C does look likely which could lead to aggregate snow crystal development, ie larger sticky/heavy(in weight)snowfall with snow liquid ratios in the 8-10 to 1 range. Finally, the strong forcing and steepening mid- level lapse rates could again lead to areas of convection and potentially thunder snow. Currently have a snow band in the 2 to 4 inch range which is a good medium at this point with how complex this system is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaster220 Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 54 minutes ago, Clinton said: Just looked at last nights UKIE. It sure is different than the other models. Yeah, not sure it can get that cold and snowy. Sure would be nice tho up this way as well as down your way. 1 Quote Winter 2023-24 Snow Total = 52.8" (89% Normal Season) Largest Storm: 12" (1/12-13) Oct: 0.1 Nov: 2.9 Dec: 7.5 Jan: 31.7 Feb: 6.0 Mar: 4.1 Apr: 0.0 Avg = 59.2" (Harrison): 2023-24 = xx.x" Avg = 45.0" (KDTW): 2022-23 = 33.5" 2021-22 = 35.6" Avg = 49.7" (KRMY): 2020-21 = 36.2" 2019-20 = 48.0" 2018-19 = 56.1" 2017-18 = 68.3" 2016-17 = 52" 2015-16 = 57.4" 2014-15 = 55.3" 2013-14 = 100.6" (coldest & snowiest in the modern record!) 2012-13 = 47.2" 2011-12 = 43.7" Legit Blizzards (high winds and dbl digit snows): Feb 2011, Dec 2009, Jan 2005, Dec 2000, Jan 1999, Mar 1998, Nov 1989, Jan 1982, Jan 1978, Jan 1977, Apr 1975, Mar 1973, Jan 1967, Feb 1965, Jan 1918 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinton Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 minute ago, jaster220 said: Yeah, not sure it can get that cold and snowy. Sure would be nice tho up this way as well as down your way. CMC looks great. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinton Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, jaster220 said: Yeah, not sure it can get that cold and snowy. Sure would be nice tho up this way as well as down your way. Any chance the snow pack across Neb and Iowa is working in my favor today? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaster220 Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 Didn't want to say it before, but in all my decades of watching storms around here, the 2nd system on a 2-parter like this always goes east of the first one. Ofc, there's gonna be somebody hoping for a double hit and some over-lap is certainly still in play. But the idea that this SLP was going to end up in N Iowa or MN was total junk modelling. 5 Quote Winter 2023-24 Snow Total = 52.8" (89% Normal Season) Largest Storm: 12" (1/12-13) Oct: 0.1 Nov: 2.9 Dec: 7.5 Jan: 31.7 Feb: 6.0 Mar: 4.1 Apr: 0.0 Avg = 59.2" (Harrison): 2023-24 = xx.x" Avg = 45.0" (KDTW): 2022-23 = 33.5" 2021-22 = 35.6" Avg = 49.7" (KRMY): 2020-21 = 36.2" 2019-20 = 48.0" 2018-19 = 56.1" 2017-18 = 68.3" 2016-17 = 52" 2015-16 = 57.4" 2014-15 = 55.3" 2013-14 = 100.6" (coldest & snowiest in the modern record!) 2012-13 = 47.2" 2011-12 = 43.7" Legit Blizzards (high winds and dbl digit snows): Feb 2011, Dec 2009, Jan 2005, Dec 2000, Jan 1999, Mar 1998, Nov 1989, Jan 1982, Jan 1978, Jan 1977, Apr 1975, Mar 1973, Jan 1967, Feb 1965, Jan 1918 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinton Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 12z CMC. I would except this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlgamer Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 This more and more looks like a 1-4" WWA snow event for most of KS and MO that gets any snow. The big question is how much ice accumulates and does that require a warning or advisory. Also could be a sleetfest for some. I'm guessing a 12 hour or less event for most folks. Unless ice becomes a major problem, this system will likely be just your average lower-end winter weather event. I guess beggars can't be choosers...lol 2 Quote 23-24 seasonal snow total: 17.8" (as of 3/9/24) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Paul Storm Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, jaster220 said: Didn't want to say it before, but in all my decades of watching storms around here, the 2nd system on a 2-parter like this always goes east of the first one. Ofc, there's gonna be somebody hoping for a double hit and some over-lap is certainly still in play. But the idea that this SLP was going to end up in N Iowa or MN was total junk modelling. Agree 100%. There was no way this was going to move north, or even retrograde. Pure garbage from the models a day or two ago. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, Clinton said: 12z CMC. I would except this. Co-sign! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKEKC Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 UKMET and CMC are worrying me...Don't trend too far SE. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinton Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 18 minutes ago, mlgamer said: This more and more looks like a 1-4" WWA snow event for most of KS and MO that gets any snow. The big question is how much ice accumulates and does that require a warning or advisory. Also could be a sleetfest for some. I'm guessing a 12 hour or less event for most folks. Unless ice becomes a major problem, this system will likely be just your average lower-end winter weather event. I guess beggars can't be choosers...lol I think there will be a heavy band of snow just west of the ice/snow line. Too much moisture for there not to be. I also question if the storm will move through our area as fast as being modeled. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDR Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 Gfs with a lot of ice for the folks south 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 12z UKIE suggesting the SE ain't done yet...a colder storm on the N/NW side of the system... @Clinton, UKIE saying all snow... Total snowfall including the secondary ULL feature that the models are picking up on...adds an additional few inches in spots... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinton Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 12z Ukie is so far SE that I'm on the NW edge of heavy snow. Good for S. Mich 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinton Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, Tom said: 12z UKIE suggesting the SE ain't done yet...a colder storm on the N/NW side of the system... @Clinton, UKIE saying all snow... Total snowfall including the secondary ULL feature that the models are picking up on...adds an additional few inches in spots... Thats great but no further SE!!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Clinton said: Thats great but no further SE!!!!! I think your in a good spot with this one...let's see what the Euro shows in a few. I gotta feeling it'll show something similar. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinton Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, Tom said: I think your in a good spot with this one...let's see what the Euro shows in a few. I gotta feeling it'll show something similar. This would be a great way to ring in the new year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 12z Euro with a nasty freezing rain to heavy snow scenario for E KS/KC.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinton Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, Tom said: 12z Euro with a nasty freezing rain to heavy snow scenario for E KS/KC.... Warning level event for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinton Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 15 hours of frz rain before it changes to snow in mby. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Clinton said: Warning level event for sure. It's rather amazing how the Canadian has been rock steady for both systems and now the rest of the models are trending towards this storms solution. Kuddo's to the Canadian's if this pans out again! Oh Canada.... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Hole Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 12z ECMWF Kuchera snow, sleet, and ZR accumulations. 1 1 Quote Winter 23-24: Total Snow (3.2") Total Ice (0.2") Coldest Low: 1F Coldest High: 5F Snow Events: 0.1" Jan 5th, 0.2" Jan 9th, 1.6" Jan 14, 0.2" (ice) Jan 22, 1.3" Feb 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Clinton said: 15 hours of frz rain before it changes to snow in myb. Not a fun scenario at all...I still think this strong ULL will produce it's own cold air just enough that it'll remain snow. The track is perfect for your region. You always want to be on the NW side and your right there. If you were to show me this ULL track in early Jan any other year, I'd say bullseye for you is no question. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinton Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Tom said: Not a fun scenario at all...I still think this strong ULL will produce it's own cold air just enough that it'll remain snow. The track is perfect for your region. You always want to be on the NW side and your right there. If you were to show me this ULL track in early Jan any other year, I'd say bullseye for you is no question. Are we getting good sampling with the energy diving fairly deep into Mexico right now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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