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July 2021 PNW Weather Discussion


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We are heading towards potentially our 3rd 90+ high in a row in the Willamette Valley, but reading the comments of some people on here you would think the region was in the grips of a green tomato summer. 

Snowfall                                  Precip

2020-21: 12.0"                        2020-21: 65.58"

2019-20: 23.5"                   2019-20: 58.54"

2018-19: 63.5"                   2018-19: 66.33"

2017-18: 30.3"                   2017-18: 59.83"

2016-17: 49.2"                   2016-17: 97.58"

2015-16: 11.75"                 2015-16: 68.67"

2014-15: 3.5"
2013-14: 11.75"                  2013-14: 62.30
2012-13: 16.75"                 2012-13: 78.45  

2011-12: 98.5"                   2011-12: 92.67"

 

It's always sunny at Winters Hill! 

 

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4 minutes ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

Wow we had 2 marine layer days last week and another day the layer burned off about 11am... WHAT A COMEBACK.

There is no better representative for the PNW lowlands than the guy living at 1500'.

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A forum for the end of the world.

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6 minutes ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

We are heading towards potentially our 3rd 90+ high in a row in the Willamette Valley, but reading the comments of some people on here you would think the region was in the grips of a green tomato summer. 

Probably time to reinvent your OR only thread.

A forum for the end of the world.

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7 minutes ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

We are heading towards potentially our 3rd 90+ high in a row in the Willamette Valley, but reading the comments of some people on here you would think the region was in the grips of a green tomato summer. 

Still 64 at SEA at 1 p.m.    Brrrrr!

Side note... our tomatoes and everything else are going gangbusters.  😀

**REPORTED CONDITIONS AND ANOMALIES ARE NOT MEANT TO IMPLY ANYTHING ON A REGIONAL LEVEL UNLESS SPECIFICALLY STATED**

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1 minute ago, TT-SEA said:

Still 64 at SEA at 1 p.m.    Brrrrr!

Side note... our tomatoes and everything else are going gangbusters.  😀

Because it has been a hot summer so far. As for the Oregon/SW WA only thread. It is becoming apparent I was a man ahead of my time. There is a groundswell of support for the idea. 

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Snowfall                                  Precip

2020-21: 12.0"                        2020-21: 65.58"

2019-20: 23.5"                   2019-20: 58.54"

2018-19: 63.5"                   2018-19: 66.33"

2017-18: 30.3"                   2017-18: 59.83"

2016-17: 49.2"                   2016-17: 97.58"

2015-16: 11.75"                 2015-16: 68.67"

2014-15: 3.5"
2013-14: 11.75"                  2013-14: 62.30
2012-13: 16.75"                 2012-13: 78.45  

2011-12: 98.5"                   2011-12: 92.67"

 

It's always sunny at Winters Hill! 

 

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2 minutes ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

Because it has been a hot summer so far. As for the Oregon/SW WA only thread. It is becoming apparent I was a man ahead of my time. There is a groundswell of support for the idea. 

Its been a warm summer overall with an extreme hot spell for 3 days.

**REPORTED CONDITIONS AND ANOMALIES ARE NOT MEANT TO IMPLY ANYTHING ON A REGIONAL LEVEL UNLESS SPECIFICALLY STATED**

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Just now, Deweydog said:

Will members be locked out of threads based on their location?

That would probably be the only way to maintain echo chamber integrity. 

Lol I’m also wondering if the new forum boundary will be king county 

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Monthly rainfall-0.00”

Warm season rainfall-5.26”

+80s-27

+85s-9

+90s-3

+100s-2

Highest temp-106

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Sun is out at SEA and still only 65 at 2 p.m. 

Might have a sub-70 day... inversion lives on.  

**REPORTED CONDITIONS AND ANOMALIES ARE NOT MEANT TO IMPLY ANYTHING ON A REGIONAL LEVEL UNLESS SPECIFICALLY STATED**

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2 minutes ago, TT-SEA said:

Sun is out at SEA and still only 65 at 2 p.m. 

Might have a sub-70 day... inversion lives on.  

66 here…might jussst barely get our first below high temp since mid June but even so it’d be -1 probably so basically average. 

Monthly rainfall-0.00”

Warm season rainfall-5.26”

+80s-27

+85s-9

+90s-3

+100s-2

Highest temp-106

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28 minutes ago, TacomaWaWx said:

Lol I’m also wondering if the new forum boundary will be king county 

I think a committee should be formed to decide the boundaries. We can’t screw this up with so much on the line. Winter is coming!

Might be a good argument to make three separate west side threads. I feel like I can’t relate entirely to either Eugene or North Bend. I feel alienated and I need to be digitally coddled.

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1 minute ago, Deweydog said:

I think a committee should be formed to decide the boundaries. We can’t screw this up with so much on the line. Winter is coming!

Might be a good argument to make three separate west side threads. I feel like I can’t relate entirely to either Eugene or North Bend. I feel alienated and I need to be digitally coddled.

So a north bend thread, Washington thread and an Oregon thread 😂 maybe throw in a separate Eugene thread too. 
 Honestly could see us having 2 threads though…didn’t work in the past but doesn’t mean it couldn’t work now. There’s plenty of Washington and Oregon posters. 

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Monthly rainfall-0.00”

Warm season rainfall-5.26”

+80s-27

+85s-9

+90s-3

+100s-2

Highest temp-106

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2 minutes ago, TacomaWaWx said:

So a north bend thread, Washington thread and an Oregon thread 😂 maybe throw in a separate Eugene thread too. 

Maybe a Covington thread too?   That area seems to be the only place having a frigid summer this year.    😀

**REPORTED CONDITIONS AND ANOMALIES ARE NOT MEANT TO IMPLY ANYTHING ON A REGIONAL LEVEL UNLESS SPECIFICALLY STATED**

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I find it rather interesting that even the ECMWF is coming in high on max temps for the Seattle area.  Pretty good inversion setting in.

Death To Warm Anomalies!

 

Winter 2020-21 stats

 

Total Snowfall = 7.0"

Day with 1" or more snow depth = 5

Total Hail = 0.0"

Coldest Low = 23

Lows 32 or below = 55

Highs 32 or below = 2

Lows 20 or below = 0

Highs 40 or below = 5

 

 

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Just now, TT-SEA said:

Maybe a Covington thread too?   That area seems to be the only place having a frigid summer this year.    😀

Covington truly defies the odds every year. 

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Monthly rainfall-0.00”

Warm season rainfall-5.26”

+80s-27

+85s-9

+90s-3

+100s-2

Highest temp-106

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5 minutes ago, TT-SEA said:

Maybe a Covington thread too?   That area seems to be the only place having a frigid summer this year.    😀

Totally absurd post.  I don't know why people think I'm nuts for saying we are entering a different pattern.

Death To Warm Anomalies!

 

Winter 2020-21 stats

 

Total Snowfall = 7.0"

Day with 1" or more snow depth = 5

Total Hail = 0.0"

Coldest Low = 23

Lows 32 or below = 55

Highs 32 or below = 2

Lows 20 or below = 0

Highs 40 or below = 5

 

 

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3 minutes ago, MossMan said:

The SUN! Up to 68 degrees. 

Incredible day.  Only 69 here and it's almost 3pm.

Don't you know the narrative is supposed to be we are going fry endlessly this summer?

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Death To Warm Anomalies!

 

Winter 2020-21 stats

 

Total Snowfall = 7.0"

Day with 1" or more snow depth = 5

Total Hail = 0.0"

Coldest Low = 23

Lows 32 or below = 55

Highs 32 or below = 2

Lows 20 or below = 0

Highs 40 or below = 5

 

 

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4 minutes ago, TacomaWaWx said:

So a north bend thread, Washington thread and an Oregon thread 😂 maybe throw in a separate Eugene thread too. 
 Honestly could see us having 2 threads though…didn’t work in the past but doesn’t mean it couldn’t work now. There’s plenty of Washington and Oregon posters. 

Lots to consider…

Maybe you have a immigration process where a certain number of folks on either side of the boundary can defect if they so choose, after a rigorous vetting process of course.

If you do two, the most reasonable cut off would probably be the Cowlitz/Lewis border.  I don’t think we have any regulars anywhere near that area.

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1 minute ago, Deweydog said:

Lots to consider…

Maybe you have a immigration process where a certain number of folks on either side of the boundary can defect if they so choose, after a rigorous vetting process of course.

If you do two, the most reasonable cut off would probably be the Cowlitz/Lewis border.  I don’t think we have any regulars anywhere near that area.

Just the sheer amount of vetting and processing will be a lot to handle. Will need to set up 2 different forum committees. Could take a long time. Lewis county seems like a good border!

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Monthly rainfall-0.00”

Warm season rainfall-5.26”

+80s-27

+85s-9

+90s-3

+100s-2

Highest temp-106

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7 minutes ago, snow_wizard said:

Totally absurd post.  I don't know why people think I'm nuts for saying we are entering a different pattern.

Does not seem too different for the next 10 days... but there will be a weak trough on Wednesday and Thursday.    

The days that the ECMWF shows the low clouds all the way inland seem to end up cooler than projected... like today.    Tomorrow should be warmer.   And then the cooler 850mb temps on Wednesday and Thursday might allow the inversion to break.   The ECMWF shows basically no low clouds all the way inland from Friday through the middle of next week.    So it's going to be pretty warm.    

The stuff after day 10 is a crapshoot.   You know that.   I just doubt any significant troughing over the PNW for the next couple weeks.   So it's all an inversion game.   

**REPORTED CONDITIONS AND ANOMALIES ARE NOT MEANT TO IMPLY ANYTHING ON A REGIONAL LEVEL UNLESS SPECIFICALLY STATED**

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1 minute ago, TT-SEA said:

Does not seem too different for the next 10 days... but there will be a weak trough on Wednesday and Thursday.    

The days that the ECMWF shows the low clouds all the way inland seem to end up cooler than projected... like today.    Tomorrow should be warmer.   And then the cooler 850mb temps on Wednesday and Thursday might allow the inversion to break.   The ECMWF shows basically no low clouds all the way inland from Friday through most of next week.    So it's going to be pretty warm.    

The stuff after day 10 is a crapshoot.   You know that.   I just doubt any significant troughing over the PNW for the next couple weeks.   So it's all an inversion game.   

Out of the next 10 days 3 look average and the rest above average. Not seeing this pattern change. No major roasting though for now. 

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Monthly rainfall-0.00”

Warm season rainfall-5.26”

+80s-27

+85s-9

+90s-3

+100s-2

Highest temp-106

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1 minute ago, TacomaWaWx said:

Out of the next 10 days 3 look average and the rest above average. Not seeing this pattern change. No major roasting though for now. 

Totally agree.  

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**REPORTED CONDITIONS AND ANOMALIES ARE NOT MEANT TO IMPLY ANYTHING ON A REGIONAL LEVEL UNLESS SPECIFICALLY STATED**

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I ask Jim... how the pattern in a week so different?    And in a week... the troughing beyond day 10 now might not look like much.    

ecmwf-deterministic-namer-z500_anom-6134400.png

**REPORTED CONDITIONS AND ANOMALIES ARE NOT MEANT TO IMPLY ANYTHING ON A REGIONAL LEVEL UNLESS SPECIFICALLY STATED**

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SLE up to 85, running -2 compared to yesterday. Going to be a close call whether they can score yet another 90 degree day. It has been a VERY HOT summer so far. Today is no exception. 

Snowfall                                  Precip

2020-21: 12.0"                        2020-21: 65.58"

2019-20: 23.5"                   2019-20: 58.54"

2018-19: 63.5"                   2018-19: 66.33"

2017-18: 30.3"                   2017-18: 59.83"

2016-17: 49.2"                   2016-17: 97.58"

2015-16: 11.75"                 2015-16: 68.67"

2014-15: 3.5"
2013-14: 11.75"                  2013-14: 62.30
2012-13: 16.75"                 2012-13: 78.45  

2011-12: 98.5"                   2011-12: 92.67"

 

It's always sunny at Winters Hill! 

 

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25 minutes ago, snow_wizard said:

I find it rather interesting that even the ECMWF is coming in high on max temps for the Seattle area.  Pretty good inversion setting in.

Yeah, it's clear that every model has its own weaknesses in different patterns for surface temps.

Overall, it seems that the current GFS runs too warm for most locations, and the Euro runs too cool for a few locations in the summer...but the Euro is definitely closer overall. It was much maligned for its "cool bias" leading up to the big heatwave, but within a few days I think it was actually a bit closer to reality than the GFS.

And obviously the Euro has been much closer than the GFS since the heatwave ended.

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Up to 68 at SEA and the wind is variable now.     A sub-70 day seems unlikely now.   Would need a need SSW wind but onshore flow is weakening. 

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Just now, Front Ranger said:

Yeah, it's clear that every model has its own weaknesses in different patterns for surface temps.

Overall, it seems that the current GFS runs too warm for most locations, and the Euro runs too cool for a few locations in the summer...but the Euro is definitely closer overall. It was much maligned for its "cool bias" leading up to the big heatwave, but within a few days I think it was actually a bit closer to reality than the GFS.

And obviously the Euro has been much closer than the GFS since the heatwave ended.

It's all noise. My only takeaway is the heat continues. Tim would have died for this kind of heat in 2011. 

Snowfall                                  Precip

2020-21: 12.0"                        2020-21: 65.58"

2019-20: 23.5"                   2019-20: 58.54"

2018-19: 63.5"                   2018-19: 66.33"

2017-18: 30.3"                   2017-18: 59.83"

2016-17: 49.2"                   2016-17: 97.58"

2015-16: 11.75"                 2015-16: 68.67"

2014-15: 3.5"
2013-14: 11.75"                  2013-14: 62.30
2012-13: 16.75"                 2012-13: 78.45  

2011-12: 98.5"                   2011-12: 92.67"

 

It's always sunny at Winters Hill! 

 

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1 minute ago, TT-SEA said:

Up to 68 at SEA and the wind is variable now.     A sub-70 day seems unlikely now.   Would need a need SSW wind but onshore flow is weakening. 

Of course Seattle is not going to have a sub-70 day. 

Snowfall                                  Precip

2020-21: 12.0"                        2020-21: 65.58"

2019-20: 23.5"                   2019-20: 58.54"

2018-19: 63.5"                   2018-19: 66.33"

2017-18: 30.3"                   2017-18: 59.83"

2016-17: 49.2"                   2016-17: 97.58"

2015-16: 11.75"                 2015-16: 68.67"

2014-15: 3.5"
2013-14: 11.75"                  2013-14: 62.30
2012-13: 16.75"                 2012-13: 78.45  

2011-12: 98.5"                   2011-12: 92.67"

 

It's always sunny at Winters Hill! 

 

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1 minute ago, Front Ranger said:

Yeah, it's clear that every model has its own weaknesses in different patterns for surface temps.

Overall, it seems that the current GFS runs too warm for most locations, and the Euro runs too cool for a few locations in the summer...but the Euro is definitely closer overall. It was much maligned for its "cool bias" leading up to the big heatwave, but within a few days I think it was actually a bit closer to reality than the GFS.

And obviously the Euro has been much closer than the GFS since the heatwave ended.

GFS seems to always miss inversions.   So a rudderless pattern in the summer is going to be a major weakness and is more favorable for the ECMWF.

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2 minutes ago, Thunder98 said:

 

 

p168i.gif?1625358310

Looks about right!

Snowfall                                  Precip

2020-21: 12.0"                        2020-21: 65.58"

2019-20: 23.5"                   2019-20: 58.54"

2018-19: 63.5"                   2018-19: 66.33"

2017-18: 30.3"                   2017-18: 59.83"

2016-17: 49.2"                   2016-17: 97.58"

2015-16: 11.75"                 2015-16: 68.67"

2014-15: 3.5"
2013-14: 11.75"                  2013-14: 62.30
2012-13: 16.75"                 2012-13: 78.45  

2011-12: 98.5"                   2011-12: 92.67"

 

It's always sunny at Winters Hill! 

 

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32 minutes ago, snow_wizard said:

Incredible day.  Only 69 here and it's almost 3pm.

Don't you know the narrative is supposed to be we are going fry endlessly this summer?

Take your beef up with those people. Myself, I made no predictions. I do favor above-average temperatures overall, but that does not necessarily mean an epic torching for the rest of summer. (Even a fraction of a degree F above average is still above average.)

It's called clown range for a reason.

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1 hour ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

We are heading towards potentially our 3rd 90+ high in a row in the Willamette Valley, but reading the comments of some people on here you would think the region was in the grips of a green tomato summer. 

I never thought we were headed for that. Just somewhere between a record hot and 2010 type summer. 

Weather Data for Klamath Falls, OR
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Snowfall (with % of seasonal average)

2010-2011 - 60.70" (168%)
2011-2012 - 49.00" (136%)
2012-2013 - 25.10" (70%)
2013-2014 - 9.05" (25%)
2014-2015 - 2.90" (8%)
2015-2016 - 54.45" (151%)
2016-2017 - 63.00" (175%)
2017-2018 - 18.10" (50%)
2018-2019 - 52.30" (145%)
2019-2020 - 37.00" (103%)
2020-2021 - 19.00" (53%)
 
2021 Thunderstorms (7)
05/14, 06/22, 06/24, 07/27, 07/29
07/31, 08/01, 
 
Biggest Snowstorm - 18.4" (Jan 3-4 2017 - 26 hours)
Top 5 Daily Snows: 12.40" (01/03/2017), 8.20" (11/23/2010), 7.50" (12/13/2015), 6.60" (02/07/2017), 6.20" (03/10/2019)
Honorable Mention: 6.00" (03/20/2012), 6.00" (02/28/2012), 6.00" (01/16/2020), 5.70" (12/14/2016), 5.50" (01/18/2012)
Max Depths: 21.00" (01/07/2017), 18.00" (12/24/2015), 13.00" (01/16/2020), 11.00" (11/23/2010), 9.50" (02/27/2019), 9.00" (02/28/2012)
 
T'storm Days: 10 (2020), 14 (2019), 16 (2018), 12 (2017), 13 (2016), 20 (2015), 21 (2014), 16 (2013), 2 (2012), 12 (2011)
1980-2015 Avg = 12
Severe T'storms: 6 (08/05/2020), (08/10/2019), (08/08/2017), (07/24/2017), (01/19/2016), (08/05/2012) 
"Almost" Severe: 2 (08/10/2017), (05/04/2016)
Vicinity Severe T'storms (close enough to hear, with official severe reports)
(06/26/2017), (08/05/2016), (07/09/2015), (07/05/2015), (06/09/2015), (08/05/2014), (08/04/2014), (08/22/2013), (08/12/2013), (09/12/2011), (09/04/2011)

 

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11 minutes ago, TT-SEA said:

GFS seems to always miss inversions.   So a rudderless pattern in the summer is going to be a major weakness and is more favorable for the ECMWF.

Agreed. There just seems to be more things the GFS misses in general, for most locations.

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2 minutes ago, Front Ranger said:

Just their 5th sub-80 day in the past week.

From 6/25-7/9, 2015, they had 0 of those.

Whoopdee freaking do. 

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Snowfall                                  Precip

2020-21: 12.0"                        2020-21: 65.58"

2019-20: 23.5"                   2019-20: 58.54"

2018-19: 63.5"                   2018-19: 66.33"

2017-18: 30.3"                   2017-18: 59.83"

2016-17: 49.2"                   2016-17: 97.58"

2015-16: 11.75"                 2015-16: 68.67"

2014-15: 3.5"
2013-14: 11.75"                  2013-14: 62.30
2012-13: 16.75"                 2012-13: 78.45  

2011-12: 98.5"                   2011-12: 92.67"

 

It's always sunny at Winters Hill! 

 

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Just now, SilverFallsAndrew said:

Whoopdee freaking do. 

It's more like 2013 or 14 when we baked with a much more definted N/S gradient.

Snowfall                                  Precip

2020-21: 12.0"                        2020-21: 65.58"

2019-20: 23.5"                   2019-20: 58.54"

2018-19: 63.5"                   2018-19: 66.33"

2017-18: 30.3"                   2017-18: 59.83"

2016-17: 49.2"                   2016-17: 97.58"

2015-16: 11.75"                 2015-16: 68.67"

2014-15: 3.5"
2013-14: 11.75"                  2013-14: 62.30
2012-13: 16.75"                 2012-13: 78.45  

2011-12: 98.5"                   2011-12: 92.67"

 

It's always sunny at Winters Hill! 

 

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2 hours ago, Front Ranger said:

Get the ad hominem sh*t out of here.

Thanks.

I just don't know what your point is with anything you've been posting. That the multi-decade trend of warming could potentially reverse itself in the future, backed with no evidence at all - a point so obvious that you could say that about literally any trend ever observed in history because of how time works (the future hasn't happened yet, therefore we can't be certain about what will occur)? Here's the facts about summers here:

- They've seen an overall warming trend that goes back all the way to the beginning of observed records in the PNW starting in the 1800s

- That trend has accelerated in the last 40ish years

- There have been blips in that trend along the way, sometimes lasting for a decade+, see the 1950s

- 2010 was a cooler and cloudier summer than 2009, then in the decade since then we've seen a bunch of even warmer and even sunnier summers

- The marine layer has been much less prevalent since 2012, something clear even to casual observers living here

The ad hominem is because it seems like your primary motivation with this is to try to downplay the warmth we've been seeing. If we had just seen the coldest December ever observed by Europeans that included the most intense cold snap ever recorded with subzero highs in places on the west side, followed by another week of cold but not record breaking conditions, I doubt you'd be reacting like this.

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3 minutes ago, James Jones said:

I just don't know what your point is with anything you've been posting. That the multi-decade trend of warming could potentially reverse itself in the future, backed with no evidence at all - a point so obvious that you could say that about literally any trend ever observed in history because of how time works (the future hasn't happened yet, therefore we can't be certain about what will occur)? Here's the facts about summers here:

- They've seen an overall warming trend that goes back all the way to the beginning of observed records in the PNW starting in the 1800s

- There have been blips in that trend along the way, sometimes lasting for a decade+, see the 1950s

- 2010 was a cooler and cloudier summer than 2009, then in the decade since then we've seen a bunch of even warmer and even sunnier summers

- The marine layer has been much less prevalent since 2012, something clear even to casual observers living here

The ad hominem is because it seems like your primary motivation with this is to try to downplay the warmth we've been seeing. If we had just seen the coldest December ever observed by Europeans that included the most intense cold snap ever recorded with subzero highs in places on the west side, followed by another week of cold but not record breaking conditions, I doubt you'd be reacting like this.

It seems like the ones most intent on commenting on conditions here don't actually live here...

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(1. January 10th, 2017: 18.5 in.

(2. February 6th, 2014: 7.5 inches

(3. February 20th, 2018: 5.0 inches

(4. February 21st, 2018: 4.0 inches

(5. December 14th, 2016: 3.5 inches

 

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15 minutes ago, Front Ranger said:

Since Quillayute hit 110 on 6/28, they have yet to top 70.

Is it this kind of logic that led you to think warming ceased after the 1997-98 super nino?

My preferences can beat up your preferences’ dad.

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14 minutes ago, James Jones said:

I just don't know what your point is with anything you've been posting. That the multi-decade trend of warming could potentially reverse itself in the future, backed with no evidence at all - a point so obvious that you could say that about literally any trend ever observed in history because of how time works (the future hasn't happened yet, therefore we can't be certain about what will occur)? Here's the facts about summers here:

- They've seen an overall warming trend that goes back all the way to the beginning of observed records in the PNW starting in the 1800s

- That trend has accelerated in the last 40ish years

- There have been blips in that trend along the way, sometimes lasting for a decade+, see the 1950s

- 2010 was a cooler and cloudier summer than 2009, then in the decade since then we've seen a bunch of even warmer and even sunnier summers

- The marine layer has been much less prevalent since 2012, something clear even to casual observers living here

The ad hominem is because it seems like your primary motivation with this is to try to downplay the warmth we've been seeing. If we had just seen the coldest December ever observed by Europeans that included the most intense cold snap ever recorded with subzero highs in places on the west side, followed by another week of cold but not record breaking conditions, I doubt you'd be reacting like this.

Since you apparently didn't read my other response to Jesse, let me repost it for you. Not sure why you felt the need to type out a bunch of stuff I mostly agree with. But you seem way too concerned with my motivations.

Sounds like you were reading a bit much into what I said... nothing about long term climate uncertainty. 

Just commentary on the nature of *trends*, people's perspective on them, and how sometimes they reverse. 

2009 was a near record sunny summer in Seattle. It was followed by a near record cloudy summer. I think sometimes people can be a bit too prisoner of the moment on here.

Not saying there haven't been less marine layer days in recent years, I'm sure there have. But that doesn't mean it's a trend that can't or won't reverse.

But I understand if you'd prefer to just listen to an unending chorus of Californication.

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4 minutes ago, Front Ranger said:

Just thought it was an interesting stat.

The 110 degree high certainly was. The remainder not so much given their average high is 66 degrees.

My preferences can beat up your preferences’ dad.

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