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PNW November 2021 Wx Obs/Discussion


Meatyorologist

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Just now, Phil said:

Something to watch, hints at a more BLO+ regime second half of December, but needs more amplitude and ideally some NW retrogression.

BLO+ ?

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Death To Warm Anomalies!

 

Winter 2023-24 stats

 

Total Snowfall = 1.0"

Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1

Total Hail = 0.0

Total Ice = 0.2

Coldest Low = 13

Lows 32 or below = 45

Highs 32 or below = 3

Lows 20 or below = 3

Highs 40 or below = 9

 

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1 hour ago, TigerWoodsLibido said:

Didn't mean anything for here last year. Seems to just be something people like to correlate with winter weather somehow.

The February event last winter actually occurred during a more +PNA.

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7 minutes ago, snow_wizard said:

BLO+ ?

https://confluence.ecmwf.int/plugins/servlet/mobile?contentId=131397361#content/view/131397361

The pattern enhances the type of wave activity fluxes that may perturb the SPV and trigger a SSW (or simply dislodge the TPV into a more favorable structure or location).

Many of the recent cold outbreaks across the western and central conus (including the PNW) have been preceded by such a pattern. Including the most recent three events (Feb 2021, Feb 2019, and Feb 2018).

It’s essentially a precursor signal for your region, having state-dependent effects which can open better conduits to Pacific blocking/cold down the road. Doesn’t always work, but it increases the odds in most cases.

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13 minutes ago, Phil said:

In other words, a 2007/08 pattern.

As I have said a MILLION times. We could do much much worse. 

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Snowfall                                  Precip

2022-23: 95.0"                      2022-23: 17.39"

2021-22: 52.6"                    2021-22: 91.46" 

2020-21: 12.0"                    2020-21: 71.59"

2019-20: 23.5"                   2019-20: 58.54"

2018-19: 63.5"                   2018-19: 66.33"

2017-18: 30.3"                   2017-18: 59.83"

2016-17: 49.2"                   2016-17: 97.58"

2015-16: 11.75"                 2015-16: 68.67"

2014-15: 3.5"
2013-14: 11.75"                  2013-14: 62.30
2012-13: 16.75"                 2012-13: 78.45  

2011-12: 98.5"                   2011-12: 92.67"

It's always sunny at Winters Hill! 
Fighting the good fight against weather evil.

 

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4 minutes ago, Phil said:

https://confluence.ecmwf.int/plugins/servlet/mobile?contentId=131397361#content/view/131397361

The pattern enhances the type of wave activity fluxes that may perturb the SPV and trigger a SSW (or simply dislodge the TPV into a more favorable structure or location).

Many of the recent cold outbreaks across the western and central conus (including the PNW) have been preceded by such a pattern. Including the most recent three events (Feb 2021, Feb 2019, and Feb 2018).

 

 

You think an SSW in December is likely?  I think I saw models were hinting at it on Twitter, but I didn't read into it. 

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195572.png?1673757432

 

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6 minutes ago, Phil said:

https://confluence.ecmwf.int/plugins/servlet/mobile?contentId=131397361#content/view/131397361

The pattern enhances the type of wave activity fluxes that may perturb the SPV and produce a SSW (or simply dislodge the TPV into a more favorable structure or location).

Many of the recent cold outbreaks across the western and central conus have been preceded by such a pattern. Including Feb 2021, Feb 2019, and Feb 2018. 

Pretty complex.  I book marked it.

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Death To Warm Anomalies!

 

Winter 2023-24 stats

 

Total Snowfall = 1.0"

Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1

Total Hail = 0.0

Total Ice = 0.2

Coldest Low = 13

Lows 32 or below = 45

Highs 32 or below = 3

Lows 20 or below = 3

Highs 40 or below = 9

 

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1 hour ago, snow_wizard said:

Looking back at past cold waves it's always amazed how bad it torches before many of the greats.  This is usually a good thing with a Nina.

Yes, sometimes patterns change rapidly. And sometimes it just keeps torching.

What is always true is that some specific process must occur to trigger the necessary blocking patterns. There are many ways to accomplish it, but they don’t just happen for no reason.

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As I suspected.  the mean anomaly center for much of 2007-08 was 165W - 38N or so.  The end of the EPS is going for 165W - 45N.  That 7 degrees makes a big difference.  Furthermore the pattern was still amplifying at the end of the run.

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Death To Warm Anomalies!

 

Winter 2023-24 stats

 

Total Snowfall = 1.0"

Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1

Total Hail = 0.0

Total Ice = 0.2

Coldest Low = 13

Lows 32 or below = 45

Highs 32 or below = 3

Lows 20 or below = 3

Highs 40 or below = 9

 

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I think I speak for everyone south of PDX in saying last winter was a complete turd. I guess there was some sticking snow in the Central Willamette Valley in late January, but that was it. Getting a huge ice storm, while historic, was more horrific and destructive than 90% of you will ever understand. 

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Snowfall                                  Precip

2022-23: 95.0"                      2022-23: 17.39"

2021-22: 52.6"                    2021-22: 91.46" 

2020-21: 12.0"                    2020-21: 71.59"

2019-20: 23.5"                   2019-20: 58.54"

2018-19: 63.5"                   2018-19: 66.33"

2017-18: 30.3"                   2017-18: 59.83"

2016-17: 49.2"                   2016-17: 97.58"

2015-16: 11.75"                 2015-16: 68.67"

2014-15: 3.5"
2013-14: 11.75"                  2013-14: 62.30
2012-13: 16.75"                 2012-13: 78.45  

2011-12: 98.5"                   2011-12: 92.67"

It's always sunny at Winters Hill! 
Fighting the good fight against weather evil.

 

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1 minute ago, Phil said:

Yes, sometimes patterns change rapidly. And sometimes it just keeps torching.

What is always true is that some specific process must occur to trigger the necessary blocking patterns. There are many ways to accomplish it, but they don’t just happen for no reason.

I guess the point is for whatever reason one usually leads to the other.  In 2007 things were more muted than we've seen this season.

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Death To Warm Anomalies!

 

Winter 2023-24 stats

 

Total Snowfall = 1.0"

Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1

Total Hail = 0.0

Total Ice = 0.2

Coldest Low = 13

Lows 32 or below = 45

Highs 32 or below = 3

Lows 20 or below = 3

Highs 40 or below = 9

 

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Just now, SilverFallsAndrew said:

I think I speak for everyone south of PDX in saying last winter was a complete turd. I guess there was some sticking snow in the Central Willamette Valley in late January, but that was it. Getting a huge ice storm, while historic, was more horrific and destructive than 90% of you will ever understand. 

I hate ice.  I get my share here, but not like Troutdale or the Willamette Valley.  At least I got rid of the two trees that really made me nervous during the last ice event.

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Death To Warm Anomalies!

 

Winter 2023-24 stats

 

Total Snowfall = 1.0"

Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1

Total Hail = 0.0

Total Ice = 0.2

Coldest Low = 13

Lows 32 or below = 45

Highs 32 or below = 3

Lows 20 or below = 3

Highs 40 or below = 9

 

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2 minutes ago, snow_wizard said:

As I suspected.  the mean anomaly center for much of 2007-08 was 165W - 38N or so.  The end of the EPS is going for 165W - 45N.  That 7 degrees makes a big difference.  Furthermore the pattern was still amplifying at the end of the run.

I hope Dec 08 is included 🙂

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195572.png?1673757432

 

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I have a hard time believing we will have as bad a winter as last down here... Though 99-00 and 00-01 were some pretty pathetic Nina winters. 

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Snowfall                                  Precip

2022-23: 95.0"                      2022-23: 17.39"

2021-22: 52.6"                    2021-22: 91.46" 

2020-21: 12.0"                    2020-21: 71.59"

2019-20: 23.5"                   2019-20: 58.54"

2018-19: 63.5"                   2018-19: 66.33"

2017-18: 30.3"                   2017-18: 59.83"

2016-17: 49.2"                   2016-17: 97.58"

2015-16: 11.75"                 2015-16: 68.67"

2014-15: 3.5"
2013-14: 11.75"                  2013-14: 62.30
2012-13: 16.75"                 2012-13: 78.45  

2011-12: 98.5"                   2011-12: 92.67"

It's always sunny at Winters Hill! 
Fighting the good fight against weather evil.

 

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Pretty nice afternoon, drizzled all morning, but some sunbreaks now. 

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Snowfall                                  Precip

2022-23: 95.0"                      2022-23: 17.39"

2021-22: 52.6"                    2021-22: 91.46" 

2020-21: 12.0"                    2020-21: 71.59"

2019-20: 23.5"                   2019-20: 58.54"

2018-19: 63.5"                   2018-19: 66.33"

2017-18: 30.3"                   2017-18: 59.83"

2016-17: 49.2"                   2016-17: 97.58"

2015-16: 11.75"                 2015-16: 68.67"

2014-15: 3.5"
2013-14: 11.75"                  2013-14: 62.30
2012-13: 16.75"                 2012-13: 78.45  

2011-12: 98.5"                   2011-12: 92.67"

It's always sunny at Winters Hill! 
Fighting the good fight against weather evil.

 

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3 minutes ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

I think I speak for everyone south of PDX in saying last winter was a complete turd. I guess there was some sticking snow in the Central Willamette Valley in late January, but that was it. Getting a huge ice storm, while historic, was more horrific and destructive than 90% of you will ever understand. 

It was a dud up here, too.

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1 minute ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

I have a hard time believing we will have as bad a winter as last down here... Though 99-00 and 00-01 were some pretty pathetic Nina winters. 

Those two turds were solar max.  Usually second year Ninas perform well, but that 1998 through 2000 Nina sucked balls.

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Death To Warm Anomalies!

 

Winter 2023-24 stats

 

Total Snowfall = 1.0"

Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1

Total Hail = 0.0

Total Ice = 0.2

Coldest Low = 13

Lows 32 or below = 45

Highs 32 or below = 3

Lows 20 or below = 3

Highs 40 or below = 9

 

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1 minute ago, snow drift said:

It was a dud up here, too.

Yeah, if you lived somewhere where you need more than 3 good days to make your winter, last winter was close to an all-time dud. 

Just now, Deweydog said:

November 2000 was pretty darn chilly.

That is true! 

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Snowfall                                  Precip

2022-23: 95.0"                      2022-23: 17.39"

2021-22: 52.6"                    2021-22: 91.46" 

2020-21: 12.0"                    2020-21: 71.59"

2019-20: 23.5"                   2019-20: 58.54"

2018-19: 63.5"                   2018-19: 66.33"

2017-18: 30.3"                   2017-18: 59.83"

2016-17: 49.2"                   2016-17: 97.58"

2015-16: 11.75"                 2015-16: 68.67"

2014-15: 3.5"
2013-14: 11.75"                  2013-14: 62.30
2012-13: 16.75"                 2012-13: 78.45  

2011-12: 98.5"                   2011-12: 92.67"

It's always sunny at Winters Hill! 
Fighting the good fight against weather evil.

 

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3 minutes ago, Kolk1604 said:

You think an SSW in December is likely?  I think I saw models were hinting at it on Twitter, but I didn't read into it. 

I am very skeptical of a December SSW now. FWIW that is just one of several ways to trigger NPAC blocking..not a prerequisite by any means though it would certainly help. :lol: 

Re: SSW potential: The pattern remains hostile until (at least) the middle of December, and it can take many weeks to sufficient sufficiently destabilize the SPV such that it culminates in a SSW (not to mention the wave-cycles may need be somewhat synchronized to the quasi-resonant responses of the SPV system, at the time).

There are rare cases like Feb 1989 where there is a complete/integrated reorganization of the system state without the canonical pathways and lags, but that is very hard to predict, until it’s right there.

I would say, that I think the first half of January has some potential on the SSW front, based on some *rough* extrapolations on my part, but that is very low confidence at this range (and the period preceding the SSW can also be warm in the West).

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1 hour ago, TT-SEA said:

Not Californians who live around Tahoe.  

Classmate of mine lives in Mt Shasta City...they always get a ton of snow as well.

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Garfield County/Pomeroy, WA:

2023-2024 Snowfall totals: 14.3 inches

HIghest snow total (per event): 5.8 inches total 1/11/24 - 1/12/24.

Most recent accumulation (non trace): 0.20 inches on 2/26/24

Days with  trace or more snowfall: 12/01/23 (0.60), 1/8/24 (1.0), 1/10/24 (3.5), 1/11/23 (3.5 inches with Thundersnow; separate event from prior day), 1/12/24 (2.30). 1/14/24 (T), 1/17/24 (1.20 inches), 1/18/24 (1.5 inches), 1/19/24 (0.20), 2/09/24 (0.30), 2/26/24 (0.20-mainly graupel)

First Freeze: 10/27/2023

Last Sub freezing Day: 1/20/24 (12th) (8 days in a row from 1/12/24-1/20/24)

Coldest low: -12F (!!!!!!!!) (1/12/24)

Last White Christmas: 2022 at my location (on ground)

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6 minutes ago, LowerGarfield said:

Classmate of mine lives in Mt Shasta City...they always get a ton of snow as well.

My wife has family in Weed. Just a few miles away, and they get their share of snow, but Mt. Shasta City does way better. 

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Snowfall                                  Precip

2022-23: 95.0"                      2022-23: 17.39"

2021-22: 52.6"                    2021-22: 91.46" 

2020-21: 12.0"                    2020-21: 71.59"

2019-20: 23.5"                   2019-20: 58.54"

2018-19: 63.5"                   2018-19: 66.33"

2017-18: 30.3"                   2017-18: 59.83"

2016-17: 49.2"                   2016-17: 97.58"

2015-16: 11.75"                 2015-16: 68.67"

2014-15: 3.5"
2013-14: 11.75"                  2013-14: 62.30
2012-13: 16.75"                 2012-13: 78.45  

2011-12: 98.5"                   2011-12: 92.67"

It's always sunny at Winters Hill! 
Fighting the good fight against weather evil.

 

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Breaking news! Water is no longer falling from the sky. 0.70" on the day and 10.15" on the month which is just over an inch greater than my previous wettest month.

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Home Wx Station Stats (Since January 2008):

Max Temp: 96.3F (2009)   Min Temp: 2.0F (2008)   Max Wind Gust: 45 mph (2018, 2021)   Wettest Day: 2.34 (11/4/22)   Avg Yearly Precip: 37"   10yr Avg Snow: 8.0"

Snowfall Totals

'08-09: 30" | '09-10: 0.5" | '10-11: 21" | '11-12: 9.5" | '12-13: 0.2" | '13-14: 6.2" | '14-15: 0.0" | '15-16: 0.25"| '16-17: 8.0" | '17-18: 0.9"| '18-19: 11.5" | '19-20: 11" | '20-21: 10.5" | '21-22: 21.75" | '22-23: 10.0" 

2023-24: 7.0" (1/17: 3", 1/18: 1.5", 2/26: 0.5", 3/4: 2.0", Flakes: 1/11, 1/16)

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Next weekend looking a bit cooler on the 18z. 

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Snowfall                                  Precip

2022-23: 95.0"                      2022-23: 17.39"

2021-22: 52.6"                    2021-22: 91.46" 

2020-21: 12.0"                    2020-21: 71.59"

2019-20: 23.5"                   2019-20: 58.54"

2018-19: 63.5"                   2018-19: 66.33"

2017-18: 30.3"                   2017-18: 59.83"

2016-17: 49.2"                   2016-17: 97.58"

2015-16: 11.75"                 2015-16: 68.67"

2014-15: 3.5"
2013-14: 11.75"                  2013-14: 62.30
2012-13: 16.75"                 2012-13: 78.45  

2011-12: 98.5"                   2011-12: 92.67"

It's always sunny at Winters Hill! 
Fighting the good fight against weather evil.

 

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36 minutes ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

Rain really seems to be tapering off up this way. Not much more than drizzle in the past hour or so.

I haven't really had time to check out the models the past few days, is it supposed to wiggle back north at some point or are we done?

Up to 1.87" today, 2.83" since yesterday.

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61F and partly cloudy. Sun out right now and I can smoke comfortably in a t shirt and shorts. Nice late summer day!!

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Springfield, Oregon regular season 2023-24 Stats:

  • Coldest high: 25F (Jan 14, 2024)
  • Coldest low: 20F (Jan 14, 2024)
  • Days with below freezing temps: 24 (Most recent: Mar 8, 2024)
  • Days with sub-40F highs: 4 (Most recent: Jan 16, 2024)
  • Total snowfall: 0.0"
  • Total ice: 2.25”
  • Last accumulating snowfall on roads: Dec 27, 2021 (1.9")
  • Last sub-freezing high: Jan 15, 2024 (27F)
  • Last White Christmas: 1990
  • Significant wind events (gusts 45+): 0

Personal Stats:

  • Last accumulating snowfall on roads: Dec 27, 2021
  • Last sub-freezing high: Jan 16, 2024 (32F)
  • Last White Christmas: 2008
  • Total snowfall since joining TheWeatherForums: 42.0"
  • Sub-freezing highs since joining TheWeatherForums: 4

 

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GoFundMe "College Basketball vs Epilepsy": gf.me/u/zk3pj2

My Twitter @CBBjerseys4hope

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1 minute ago, TigerWoodsLibido said:

61F and partly cloudy. Sun out right now and I can smoke comfortably in a t shirt and shorts. Nice late summer day!!

Come on lol. More like a cool late September afternoon. 

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Snowfall                                  Precip

2022-23: 95.0"                      2022-23: 17.39"

2021-22: 52.6"                    2021-22: 91.46" 

2020-21: 12.0"                    2020-21: 71.59"

2019-20: 23.5"                   2019-20: 58.54"

2018-19: 63.5"                   2018-19: 66.33"

2017-18: 30.3"                   2017-18: 59.83"

2016-17: 49.2"                   2016-17: 97.58"

2015-16: 11.75"                 2015-16: 68.67"

2014-15: 3.5"
2013-14: 11.75"                  2013-14: 62.30
2012-13: 16.75"                 2012-13: 78.45  

2011-12: 98.5"                   2011-12: 92.67"

It's always sunny at Winters Hill! 
Fighting the good fight against weather evil.

 

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3 minutes ago, Chewbacca Defense said:

I haven't really had time to check out the models the past few days, is it supposed to wiggle back north at some point or are we done?

Up to 1.87" today, 2.83" since yesterday.

Most recent GFS has about another 2" up there before the end of the month. Half of that falls tomorrow and half of that falls on Tuesday. Euro has probably about that amount as well.

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Home Wx Station Stats (Since January 2008):

Max Temp: 96.3F (2009)   Min Temp: 2.0F (2008)   Max Wind Gust: 45 mph (2018, 2021)   Wettest Day: 2.34 (11/4/22)   Avg Yearly Precip: 37"   10yr Avg Snow: 8.0"

Snowfall Totals

'08-09: 30" | '09-10: 0.5" | '10-11: 21" | '11-12: 9.5" | '12-13: 0.2" | '13-14: 6.2" | '14-15: 0.0" | '15-16: 0.25"| '16-17: 8.0" | '17-18: 0.9"| '18-19: 11.5" | '19-20: 11" | '20-21: 10.5" | '21-22: 21.75" | '22-23: 10.0" 

2023-24: 7.0" (1/17: 3", 1/18: 1.5", 2/26: 0.5", 3/4: 2.0", Flakes: 1/11, 1/16)

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In a general sense the 18z GFS is a bit better for the late week cold shot.  A bit more robust on the blocking features.

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Death To Warm Anomalies!

 

Winter 2023-24 stats

 

Total Snowfall = 1.0"

Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1

Total Hail = 0.0

Total Ice = 0.2

Coldest Low = 13

Lows 32 or below = 45

Highs 32 or below = 3

Lows 20 or below = 3

Highs 40 or below = 9

 

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This run is really nice.  We may still pull off something decent in early December.

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Death To Warm Anomalies!

 

Winter 2023-24 stats

 

Total Snowfall = 1.0"

Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1

Total Hail = 0.0

Total Ice = 0.2

Coldest Low = 13

Lows 32 or below = 45

Highs 32 or below = 3

Lows 20 or below = 3

Highs 40 or below = 9

 

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Nice snow event on this run.  Much better for NW OR than the 12z.  The way this evolves hinges so much on the way that ULL cuts off and heads toward Hawaii.

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Death To Warm Anomalies!

 

Winter 2023-24 stats

 

Total Snowfall = 1.0"

Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1

Total Hail = 0.0

Total Ice = 0.2

Coldest Low = 13

Lows 32 or below = 45

Highs 32 or below = 3

Lows 20 or below = 3

Highs 40 or below = 9

 

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1 minute ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

Oh I like this more...

gfs_mslp_pcpn_frzn_nwus_31.png

Some nice baroclinicity there.  I always feel more comfortable when that's the case.

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Death To Warm Anomalies!

 

Winter 2023-24 stats

 

Total Snowfall = 1.0"

Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1

Total Hail = 0.0

Total Ice = 0.2

Coldest Low = 13

Lows 32 or below = 45

Highs 32 or below = 3

Lows 20 or below = 3

Highs 40 or below = 9

 

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Ok...

sn10_024h.us_nw.png

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Snowfall                                  Precip

2022-23: 95.0"                      2022-23: 17.39"

2021-22: 52.6"                    2021-22: 91.46" 

2020-21: 12.0"                    2020-21: 71.59"

2019-20: 23.5"                   2019-20: 58.54"

2018-19: 63.5"                   2018-19: 66.33"

2017-18: 30.3"                   2017-18: 59.83"

2016-17: 49.2"                   2016-17: 97.58"

2015-16: 11.75"                 2015-16: 68.67"

2014-15: 3.5"
2013-14: 11.75"                  2013-14: 62.30
2012-13: 16.75"                 2012-13: 78.45  

2011-12: 98.5"                   2011-12: 92.67"

It's always sunny at Winters Hill! 
Fighting the good fight against weather evil.

 

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This run is cold with very favorable surface gradients for max cooling at the surface.

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Death To Warm Anomalies!

 

Winter 2023-24 stats

 

Total Snowfall = 1.0"

Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1

Total Hail = 0.0

Total Ice = 0.2

Coldest Low = 13

Lows 32 or below = 45

Highs 32 or below = 3

Lows 20 or below = 3

Highs 40 or below = 9

 

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Might not be as good in the long range though.

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Snowfall                                  Precip

2022-23: 95.0"                      2022-23: 17.39"

2021-22: 52.6"                    2021-22: 91.46" 

2020-21: 12.0"                    2020-21: 71.59"

2019-20: 23.5"                   2019-20: 58.54"

2018-19: 63.5"                   2018-19: 66.33"

2017-18: 30.3"                   2017-18: 59.83"

2016-17: 49.2"                   2016-17: 97.58"

2015-16: 11.75"                 2015-16: 68.67"

2014-15: 3.5"
2013-14: 11.75"                  2013-14: 62.30
2012-13: 16.75"                 2012-13: 78.45  

2011-12: 98.5"                   2011-12: 92.67"

It's always sunny at Winters Hill! 
Fighting the good fight against weather evil.

 

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Looks like a definite round two on this run.  Glad to see the stronger anomaly centers again.

  • Like 1

Death To Warm Anomalies!

 

Winter 2023-24 stats

 

Total Snowfall = 1.0"

Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1

Total Hail = 0.0

Total Ice = 0.2

Coldest Low = 13

Lows 32 or below = 45

Highs 32 or below = 3

Lows 20 or below = 3

Highs 40 or below = 9

 

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