IbrChris Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 Snotels are now considered official data by the NCDC as well. That's a recent change apparently.In my (professional) opinion most RAWS should be...they are usually as accurate as other stations and when they aren't it's pretty obvious from a comparison to surrounding stations and the overall weather pattern. Quote The Pacific Northwest: Where storms go to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbrChris Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 I'm pretty sure that Centerville reading in February 1895 is bogus. The real WA state record high for February is in the upper 70's from either 1968 or 1995. I remember looking into it but I never made a database...so I can't remember the details.Ya, I tend to agree. Like I said I haven't "vetted" these ones much (except the absolute records). Quote The Pacific Northwest: Where storms go to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbrChris Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 Those 1890's California max readings aren't legit FYI. They are from railroad maintenance camps and were not subject to any quality control. Specifically talking about places like Volcano Springs, Salton, Mammoth Tank, etc.Ya...I am generally skeptical of most 1800s readings not taken at a COOP/Weather Bureau official station. Will look at those and replace them. It appears the most likely records for Apr and May are 113 at Death Valley on Apr 23, 2012 and 122 at Death Valley on May 30, 2000. Warmest areas in Dec-Mar tend to be further south in the Coachella Valley to Imperial Valley area, as well as the occasional Santa Ana-influenced location west of the coastal ranges (such as La Mesa near San Diego). 1 Quote The Pacific Northwest: Where storms go to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbrChris Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 Cave Junction has had a bunch of suspiciously high readings in the last decade. But they're official as far as I can tell, and the 98 is within the realm of possibility for that heat wave. I'll have to see if I still have that database saved. It was kind of a spur of the moment project that I did back then. I know that sounds kind of weird...but I didn't have any plans for it.Not a problem if you don't...just personal interest driving my own efforts. Given the location of Cave Jct it's not surprising...in a rather narrow low elevation valley surrounded by fairly high mountains. IMO it may not be as consistently hot as Medford area but it's capable of spiking much like Illahe etc under the right conditions. Given than Portland saw 92 in April 1926 and arguably Ft. Vancouver in the 1850s, I'd guess a 100 deg reading in April occurred somewhere in the state in the past 150 years. That 98 reading at Cave Jct seems reasonable to me as well. Quote The Pacific Northwest: Where storms go to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbrChris Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 Unfortunately everywhere you look in the world is filled with bad data when it comes to weather records. Its too easy to screw up. Have you heard of Maximiliano Herrera? That guy apparently created a personal database of records for the whole planet. I think he's trying to get every country he can. He contributes to Christopher Burt's posts on Wunderground.Yes he's done some great work (M. Herrera). Much of that data can be had over at OGIMET if you have the time and patience, and the data is in a fairly simple tabular format. Quote The Pacific Northwest: Where storms go to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverFallsAndrew Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 I've been through Cave Junction on a motorcycle. I could definitely feel the temperature increase in that valley. I could definitely smell the marijuana smoke heavy in the air. Beautiful wild country down there. Quote Snowfall                 Precip 2022-23: 95.0"           2022-23: 17.39" 2021-22: 52.6"          2021-22: 91.46" 2020-21: 12.0"          2020-21: 71.59" 2019-20: 23.5"          2019-20: 58.54" 2018-19: 63.5"          2018-19: 66.33" 2017-18: 30.3"          2017-18: 59.83" 2016-17: 49.2"          2016-17: 97.58" 2015-16: 11.75"         2015-16: 68.67" 2014-15: 3.5" 2013-14: 11.75"         2013-14: 62.30 2012-13: 16.75"         2012-13: 78.45  2011-12: 98.5"          2011-12: 92.67" It's always sunny at Winters Hill! Fighting the good fight against weather evil.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted November 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 In my (professional) opinion most RAWS should be...they are usually as accurate as other stations and when they aren't it's pretty obvious from a comparison to surrounding stations and the overall weather pattern.I agree. No reason not to have automated stations be official. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted November 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Ya...I am generally skeptical of most 1800s readings not taken at a COOP/Weather Bureau official station. Will look at those and replace them. It appears the most likely records for Apr and May are 113 at Death Valley on Apr 23, 2012 and 122 at Death Valley on May 30, 2000. Warmest areas in Dec-Mar tend to be further south in the Coachella Valley to Imperial Valley area, as well as the occasional Santa Ana-influenced location west of the coastal ranges (such as La Mesa near San Diego). You got it with the Death Valley readings. They are the highest reliably recorded maximums in CA for April and May. BTW for January, it was also 97 at Riverside Citrus Experiment Station on 1/31/2003. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted November 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Not a problem if you don't...just personal interest driving my own efforts. Given the location of Cave Jct it's not surprising...in a rather narrow low elevation valley surrounded by fairly high mountains. IMO it may not be as consistently hot as Medford area but it's capable of spiking much like Illahe etc under the right conditions. Given than Portland saw 92 in April 1926 and arguably Ft. Vancouver in the 1850s, I'd guess a 100 deg reading in April occurred somewhere in the state in the past 150 years. That 98 reading at Cave Jct seems reasonable to me as well. I double checked on that database. Yeah I deleted it! I don't know what I was thinking. I guess I didn't see the use for having it since it was such a niche project to begin with. I think 100F has definitely happened in Oregon in April, it just hasn't been reliably recorded. We do have the 102 from Marble Creek in 1906, but that's a bogus reading. Its in Baker County...not the place you'd see triple digit heat in April. You're probably familiar with this link. Its too bad a lot of those maximum readings are garbage, especially for Oregon - http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0930148.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted November 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Yes he's done some great work (M. Herrera). Much of that data can be had over at OGIMET if you have the time and patience, and the data is in a fairly simple tabular format. Do you have a link to that? I've never been there before. He's got a lot of interesting snowfall stats on his Wikipedia page. I don't know if you've seen this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Maxcrc/Countries_without_snowfalls 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted November 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Interesting. I have the following records for Oregon, by month Record Hi MaxJan: 80 at Brookings on 28/1994Feb: 85 at Coquille, Myrtle Point on 25/1992Mar: 88 at Brookings on 18/1914Apr: 98 at Cave Junction on 21/2009May: 108 at Cave Junction on 16/2008Jun: 113 at Pelton Dam on 23/1992Jul: 117 at Umatilla on 27/1939 (119 at Pendleton incorrect)Aug: 116 at Spray on 4/1961Sept: 111 at Illahe on 3/1955Oct: 104 at Dora on 2/1980Nov: 88 at Brookings on 2/1929Dec: 79 at Brookings on 11/1951 I didn't know about most of those RAWS values, so a big thanks for digging those up. Flynn Prairie near Red Mound hit 83 on Jan 15, 2014 (with a low of 67). Record Lo Min: Jan: -52 at Austin on 8/1937Feb: -54 at Seneca and Ukiah on 9/1933Mar: -30 at Fremont on 1/1922Apr: -23 at Meacham on 1/1936May: 0 at Juniper Lake on 2/1968Jun: 11 at Crater Lake NP on 12/1952Jul: 14 at Fremont on 2/1955Aug: 13 at Seneca on 28/1937Sep: 1 at Seneca on 1/1931Oct: -11 at Seneca and Fort Rock on 31/2002Nov: -32 at Ukiah on 23/1985Dec: -53 at Riverside on 25/1924 Rec Lo Max: -21 at Austin on Jan 19, 1937Rec Hi Min: 85 at Arlington on Jul 13, 2002 I'm just looking over your numbers. Some comments - -The 80 at Brookings was on 1/28/1984-Dayville hit 91 on 3/31/1911. I consider that a reliable reading. Prospect was 88 that day and Vancouver at 78.-April is real shaky for Oregon. The 102 in Marble Creek in 1906 is bogus. Impressive event (including 90 in Portland) but no way it hits triple digits in Baker County. McMinnville hit 99 in 1926 but that station had a number of suspiciously warm readings in the 1920's. Lake Creek near Medford hit 98 in 1947. Another case of an impressive event but with a suspect station. Cave Junction in 2009 just might be the champion.-May is a multiple way tie. 108 degrees in Cave Junction in 2008, also at Pelton Dam in both 1986 and 2001.-The 0 at Juniper Lake in May 1968 is not legit. The real record should be 4 at Fremont in 1954.-For June, Fremont has a 10 degree reading on the books for 6/3/1931. I don't know if its legit.-For July I agree that 117 at Umatilla is the real record. The 119 at Prineville is a joke.-For August the actual record is 117 at Pelton Dam in 1998. The Pendleton reading from 1898 isn't even a real observation, it was extrapolated from a thermo that only read to 113 degrees. And it was likely over-exposed to begin with! No way that would be accepted as official today.-For September, the Seneca reading in 1931 occurred on the 28th, not the 1st. I don't know if I believe it. Seneca had a number of suspiciously cold readings in 1931. I don't know if they stuck their thermometer too close to the ground or what. If that reading isn't real, then 2 degrees was reached at Harney Branch Experiment Station in 1926 and also at Fremont in 1970 (on the 14th!).-For October, 104 was reached in the same 1980 event at Lost Creek Dam, in addition to Dora.-For November, Ukiah also hit -32 in 1955 in addition to 1985. Also -32 at Silver Lake in 1896.-For December, Port Orford hit 80 on 12/15/1980 (Brookings hit 79). The 1897 reading from Dayville is actually somewhat believable, but yeah probably not entirely legit. That area can see the 70's even during the heart of winter under the right conditions. I've seen the original hand written form for December 1897 for Dayville and the observer actually wrote "Nice Day!" next to the 81. Doesn't mean his thermo wasn't reading 6-7 degrees too warm, but still an interesting human observation. I love seeing stuff like that.  -For minimums in December, Drewsey also hit -53 in 1924 in addition to Riverside. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbrChris Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Do you have a link to that? I've never been there before. He's got a lot of interesting snowfall stats on his Wikipedia page. I don't know if you've seen this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Maxcrc/Countries_without_snowfallsSure, for OGIMET: http://www.ogimet.com/home.phtml.en It's based in Spain but they have good data coverage around the world...mostly synop and GSOD stations but some 8,000+ total which regularly report. You can create "top X" lists for temp and precip parameters on a global, continental or country basis for any date from present back to the late 1990s at least. Quote The Pacific Northwest: Where storms go to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbrChris Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 I'm just looking over your numbers. Some comments - Mine in red -The 80 at Brookings was on 1/28/1984 I just left off the month since it would be redundant in my list.-Dayville hit 91 on 3/31/1911. I consider that a reliable reading. Prospect was 88 that day and Vancouver at 78. Agreed-April is real shaky for Oregon. The 102 in Marble Creek in 1906 is bogus. Impressive event (including 90 in Portland) but no way it hits triple digits in Baker County. McMinnville hit 99 in 1926 but that station had a number of suspiciously warm readings in the 1920's. Lake Creek near Medford hit 98 in 1947. Another case of an impressive event but with a suspect station. Cave Junction in 2009 just might be the champion. I thought so too but upon closer inspection I would say it's "plausible/possible"-May is a multiple way tie. 108 degrees in Cave Junction in 2008, also at Pelton Dam in both 1986 and 2001. Agreed-The 0 at Juniper Lake in May 1968 is not legit. The real record should be 4 at Fremont in 1954. Agreed-For June, Fremont has a 10 degree reading on the books for 6/3/1931. I don't know if its legit. Seems legit IMO looking at other data Fremont hit 13-14 several times in June. Siting may be questionable tho.-For July I agree that 117 at Umatilla is the real record. The 119 at Prineville is a joke. Yep...glad we agree here as I came to the same conclusion independently-For August the actual record is 117 at Pelton Dam in 1998. The Pendleton reading from 1898 isn't even a real observation, it was extrapolated from a thermo that only read to 113 degrees. And it was likely over-exposed to begin with! No way that would be accepted as official today. Again...totally agree. However Pelton Dam may be a slightly inflated reading given surrounding stations that day and the fact that no other day at Pelton Dam has exceeded 114. I think the Spray value of 116 is equally likely to be the Aug record.-For September, the Seneca reading in 1931 occurred on the 28th, not the 1st. I don't know if I believe it. Seneca had a number of suspiciously cold readings in 1931. I don't know if they stuck their thermometer too close to the ground or what. If that reading isn't real, then 2 degrees was reached at Harney Branch Experiment Station in 1926 and also at Fremont in 1970 (on the 14th!). Ya that date for Seneca was a typo, sorry...I have the correct date in my records. Siting at most of these early stations (pre-WWII) is questionable see my reply below.-For October, 104 was reached in the same 1980 event at Lost Creek Dam, in addition to Dora.-For November, Ukiah also hit -32 in 1955 in addition to 1985. Also -32 at Silver Lake in 1896. I took the last occurrence.-For December, Port Orford hit 80 on 12/15/1980 (Brookings hit 79). The 1897 reading from Dayville is actually somewhat believable, but yeah probably not entirely legit. That area can see the 70's even during the heart of winter under the right conditions. I've seen the original hand written form for December 1897 for Dayville and the observer actually wrote "Nice Day!" next to the 81. Doesn't mean his thermo wasn't reading 6-7 degrees too warm, but still an interesting human observation. I love seeing stuff like that. Me too. 80 anywhere east of the Cascades in mid-winter seems unlikely given the propensity for cold pools over there. Dayville's location seems more suited to warm season heat as well since it's pretty low elevation. Winter inversions wouldn't warm it up.-For minimums in December, Drewsey also hit -53 in 1924 in addition to Riverside. Noted, thanks.Comment on Marble Creek...eastern portion of Baker County can get very hot as it includes the western portion of upper Hells Canyon. Marble Creek is listed on OR gazeteer as being just NNW of Huntington where Marble Creek empties into the Burnt River. Elevation at that site is only 2250-2300 feet...fairly low elevation (similar to Ontario). I would posit that the reading could be credible. Thanks for the notes. Generally I've listed only the most recent occurrence I believe is at least semi-credible (ie supported by surrounding area readings and from a long-standing COOP/NWS station). I'm attempting to reconstruct the Oregon daily records and will try and get around to all the stations in the next few months. Quote The Pacific Northwest: Where storms go to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbrChris Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Funny thing about that Infoplease link is that they are all (or were all) accepted as official by the states themselves and NCDC at least at one time. I recall downloading a PDF with the monthly records from all states off the NCDC website some years ago. In fact there are a few records in the Great Plains states where the location is unknown and the reading was taken in the late 1800s to very early 1900s! Yet NCDC/Weather Bureau accepted them for some time. Not sure which have been "decertified". I know Christopher Burt mentioned the AK 24 hour precip record at Angoon had been decertified upon closer inspection via a study done by some Alaska meteorologists. New record is still a bit over 15" at Seward. Anyway as we know even NCDC records are full of bad data...case in point being Oregon's record high. Even record lows suffered from bad siting...the WMO standard of 2 meters AGL didn't come into practice until after WWII. Prior to that time stations could record temperature at a variety of heights, generally between 4 and 6 feet AGL and often near buildings. For low temperatures a reading close to the ground would be significantly colder than one taken at the 2 meter standard height. This could be one reason why it seems impossible to tie or beat those old low temp records, especially for sites without accurate metadata/photos. 1 Quote The Pacific Northwest: Where storms go to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbrChris Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Do you have a link to that? I've never been there before. He's got a lot of interesting snowfall stats on his Wikipedia page. I don't know if you've seen this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Maxcrc/Countries_without_snowfallsI've used his stuff a lot for country-based temp extremes. Quote The Pacific Northwest: Where storms go to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted November 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Sure, for OGIMET: http://www.ogimet.com/home.phtml.en It's based in Spain but they have good data coverage around the world...mostly synop and GSOD stations but some 8,000+ total which regularly report. You can create "top X" lists for temp and precip parameters on a global, continental or country basis for any date from present back to the late 1990s at least. Thanks for the link. I had never seen that site before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted November 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 I've used his stuff a lot for country-based temp extremes. He's a real stickler for details too. Always tosses out readings he feels are bogus, and he's pretty qualified to make those calls based on the amounts of data he goes through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted November 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Comment on Marble Creek...eastern portion of Baker County can get very hot as it includes the western portion of upper Hells Canyon. Marble Creek is listed on OR gazeteer as being just NNW of Huntington where Marble Creek empties into the Burnt River. Elevation at that site is only 2250-2300 feet...fairly low elevation (similar to Ontario). I would posit that the reading could be credible. Thanks for the notes. Generally I've listed only the most recent occurrence I believe is at least semi-credible (ie supported by surrounding area readings and from a long-standing COOP/NWS station). I'm attempting to reconstruct the Oregon daily records and will try and get around to all the stations in the next few months. You inspired me to do some digging on April 1906. Turns out the highest temperature in Huntington itself was only 85 during that event. Looks like Grants Pass hit 94. So yeah I don't think the Marble Creek reading is legit...its a bit early in the season for optimal heating conditions in that part of OR. Thanks for the notes too. That was probably the easiest way to respond without really cluttering up the thread! I still think the Pelton Dam reading from August 4, 1998 is legit. That was a very impressive airmass east of the Cascades. It was 109 in Madras and 108 in Goldendale that day, which are higher elevation sites. Also 111 at Pasco. Regarding Dayville, that area can hit the 70's even in the dead of winter if they "mix out." Same for places like Spray, which has hit 74 on January 4 (in 1940). So 81 at Dayville on December 28, 1897 is within the realm of possibility IMO...just not a slam dunk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted November 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Funny thing about that Infoplease link is that they are all (or were all) accepted as official by the states themselves and NCDC at least at one time. I recall downloading a PDF with the monthly records from all states off the NCDC website some years ago. In fact there are a few records in the Great Plains states where the location is unknown and the reading was taken in the late 1800s to very early 1900s! Yet NCDC/Weather Bureau accepted them for some time. Not sure which have been "decertified". I know Christopher Burt mentioned the AK 24 hour precip record at Angoon had been decertified upon closer inspection via a study done by some Alaska meteorologists. New record is still a bit over 15" at Seward. Anyway as we know even NCDC records are full of bad data...case in point being Oregon's record high. Even record lows suffered from bad siting...the WMO standard of 2 meters AGL didn't come into practice until after WWII. Prior to that time stations could record temperature at a variety of heights, generally between 4 and 6 feet AGL and often near buildings. For low temperatures a reading close to the ground would be significantly colder than one taken at the 2 meter standard height. This could be one reason why it seems impossible to tie or beat those old low temp records, especially for sites without accurate metadata/photos. Yeah its amazing how little scrutiny went into the old weather records, especially on the temperature side. A lot of those readings would be discarded right away had they been reported today. At least with the formation of the NCDC's Extremes Committee they're making an effort at cleaning up...but they have a ways to go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbrChris Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Best way to rank cold spells is by 850 mb temperature in the sounding era (1950s to present) if an objective measure is wanted. Quote The Pacific Northwest: Where storms go to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbrChris Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 You inspired me to do some digging on April 1906. Turns out the highest temperature in Huntington itself was only 85 during that event. Looks like Grants Pass hit 94. So yeah I don't think the Marble Creek reading is legit...its a bit early in the season for optimal heating conditions in that part of OR. Thanks for the notes too. That was probably the easiest way to respond without really cluttering up the thread! I still think the Pelton Dam reading from August 4, 1998 is legit. That was a very impressive airmass east of the Cascades. It was 109 in Madras and 108 in Goldendale that day, which are higher elevation sites. Also 111 at Pasco. Regarding Dayville, that area can hit the 70's even in the dead of winter if they "mix out." Same for places like Spray, which has hit 74 on January 4 (in 1940). So 81 at Dayville on December 28, 1897 is within the realm of possibility IMO...just not a slam dunk.Ya, in that case no. I will say though Hagerman, ID at a slightly higher elevation has seen 100 in April, 4/21/1994. No doubt somewhere in Oregon has too...most likely in the SW valleys or in the Lower Columbia Basin near the river. I had the Aug 4, 1998 Pelton Dam record as highest in August as well...then removed it for awhile in favor of 116 at Spray, then reinstated it awhile back. Sometimes that's how these things work. Quote The Pacific Northwest: Where storms go to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted November 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 Ya, in that case no. I will say though Hagerman, ID at a slightly higher elevation has seen 100 in April, 4/21/1994. No doubt somewhere in Oregon has too...most likely in the SW valleys or in the Lower Columbia Basin near the river. I had the Aug 4, 1998 Pelton Dam record as highest in August as well...then removed it for awhile in favor of 116 at Spray, then reinstated it awhile back. Sometimes that's how these things work. Yeah I get that. This kind of analysis can get pretty subjective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverFallsAndrew Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 Do you guys think the -54 at Seneca and Ukiah in 1933 is legit? Given it happened in two locations on the same night I would say its probable. Quote Snowfall                 Precip 2022-23: 95.0"           2022-23: 17.39" 2021-22: 52.6"          2021-22: 91.46" 2020-21: 12.0"          2020-21: 71.59" 2019-20: 23.5"          2019-20: 58.54" 2018-19: 63.5"          2018-19: 66.33" 2017-18: 30.3"          2017-18: 59.83" 2016-17: 49.2"          2016-17: 97.58" 2015-16: 11.75"         2015-16: 68.67" 2014-15: 3.5" 2013-14: 11.75"         2013-14: 62.30 2012-13: 16.75"         2012-13: 78.45  2011-12: 98.5"          2011-12: 92.67" It's always sunny at Winters Hill! Fighting the good fight against weather evil.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverFallsAndrew Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 Ya, in that case no. I will say though Hagerman, ID at a slightly higher elevation has seen 100 in April, 4/21/1994. No doubt somewhere in Oregon has too...most likely in the SW valleys or in the Lower Columbia Basin near the river. I had the Aug 4, 1998 Pelton Dam record as highest in August as well...then removed it for awhile in favor of 116 at Spray, then reinstated it awhile back. Sometimes that's how these things work. I was camping in E. Oregon during this heatwave. John Day, Unity Lake, Farewell Bend near Huntington. My mom got sick from the heat one day and we had to spend a day at a hotel in Baker City for her to recover. I remember how oppressive the heat was at night on the Snake River. I went down to the river to fish for catfish at night and it was just disgusting. Looks like John Day only peaked at 102 with that heatwave. Quote Snowfall                 Precip 2022-23: 95.0"           2022-23: 17.39" 2021-22: 52.6"          2021-22: 91.46" 2020-21: 12.0"          2020-21: 71.59" 2019-20: 23.5"          2019-20: 58.54" 2018-19: 63.5"          2018-19: 66.33" 2017-18: 30.3"          2017-18: 59.83" 2016-17: 49.2"          2016-17: 97.58" 2015-16: 11.75"         2015-16: 68.67" 2014-15: 3.5" 2013-14: 11.75"         2013-14: 62.30 2012-13: 16.75"         2012-13: 78.45  2011-12: 98.5"          2011-12: 92.67" It's always sunny at Winters Hill! Fighting the good fight against weather evil.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted November 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 Do you guys think the -54 at Seneca and Ukiah in 1933 is legit? Given it happened in two locations on the same night I would say its probable. They're plausible but I don't know if they're entirely legit though because one or both thermometers may have been too close to the ground. Legit readings well into the -40's in the cold spots were a given that night, I just don't know how likely -54 would have been at standard height off the ground. On the plus side there are plenty of corroborating readings at other stations that indicate -50 was definitely possible that night at both Seneca and Ukiah. These include -52 at Meacham-47 at Austin-46 at Danner-39 at Fremont-36 at Enterprise-34 at Madras-26 at Bend 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbrChris Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 The -41 taken at Horse Ridge in Dec 2013 was at standard 2 meter height and that wasn't an outbreak of 1933 caliber so I'd say -50 or below is definitely possible. I tend to think a weather station at Paulina Crater would probably have recorded around -50 last Dec, had there been one. Quote The Pacific Northwest: Where storms go to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbrChris Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 Seneca COOP station has likely been visited by NWS and the siting examined so later records such as -48 in Feb 1989 are likely the real deal.Here we go...Howard Lohf with a photo of the Seneca COOP station enclosed in a Stevenson shelter along with the modern day observer Mr. Saunders. Looks like the thermometer is roughly at about 6 feet AGL within the shelter judging by the height of the observer....good enough for me. Looks like the surroundings are decent as well.Given the dedication by Mr. Lohf I am hesitant to dismiss his readings without some evidence warranting it.http://www.oregonphotos.com/Howard%20Lohf.html Quote The Pacific Northwest: Where storms go to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted November 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 Seneca COOP station has likely been visited by NWS and the siting examined so later records such as -48 in Feb 1989 are likely the real deal.Here we go...Howard Lohf with a photo of the Seneca COOP station enclosed in a Stevenson shelter along with the modern day observer Mr. Saunders. Looks like the thermometer is roughly at about 6 feet AGL within the shelter judging by the height of the observer....good enough for me. Looks like the surroundings are decent as well.Given the dedication by Mr. Lohf I am hesitant to dismiss his readings without some evidence warranting it.http://www.oregonphotos.com/Howard%20Lohf.htmlInteresting. I didn't know about that observer specifically. But I would definitely trust long time observers like him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverFallsAndrew Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 Seneca COOP station has likely been visited by NWS and the siting examined so later records such as -48 in Feb 1989 are likely the real deal. Here we go...Howard Lohf with a photo of the Seneca COOP station enclosed in a Stevenson shelter along with the modern day observer Mr. Saunders. Looks like the thermometer is roughly at about 6 feet AGL within the shelter judging by the height of the observer....good enough for me. Looks like the surroundings are decent as well. Given the dedication by Mr. Lohf I am hesitant to dismiss his readings without some evidence warranting it. http://www.oregonphotos.com/Howard%20Lohf.html The -41 last December was the lowest recorded temp in Oregon since the 89' blast wasn't it? I know the previous 21st century low that I was aware of was -33 at Seneca on 2/27/2011. Quote Snowfall                 Precip 2022-23: 95.0"           2022-23: 17.39" 2021-22: 52.6"          2021-22: 91.46" 2020-21: 12.0"          2020-21: 71.59" 2019-20: 23.5"          2019-20: 58.54" 2018-19: 63.5"          2018-19: 66.33" 2017-18: 30.3"          2017-18: 59.83" 2016-17: 49.2"          2016-17: 97.58" 2015-16: 11.75"         2015-16: 68.67" 2014-15: 3.5" 2013-14: 11.75"         2013-14: 62.30 2012-13: 16.75"         2012-13: 78.45  2011-12: 98.5"          2011-12: 92.67" It's always sunny at Winters Hill! Fighting the good fight against weather evil.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverFallsAndrew Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 They're plausible but I don't know if they're entirely legit though because one or both thermometers may have been too close to the ground. Legit readings well into the -40's in the cold spots were a given that night, I just don't know how likely -54 would have been at standard height off the ground. On the plus side there are plenty of corroborating readings at other stations that indicate -50 was definitely possible that night at both Seneca and Ukiah. These include -52 at Meacham-47 at Austin-46 at Danner-39 at Fremont-36 at Enterprise-34 at Madras-26 at Bend The -34 at Madras is pretty mind blowing. Quote Snowfall                 Precip 2022-23: 95.0"           2022-23: 17.39" 2021-22: 52.6"          2021-22: 91.46" 2020-21: 12.0"          2020-21: 71.59" 2019-20: 23.5"          2019-20: 58.54" 2018-19: 63.5"          2018-19: 66.33" 2017-18: 30.3"          2017-18: 59.83" 2016-17: 49.2"          2016-17: 97.58" 2015-16: 11.75"         2015-16: 68.67" 2014-15: 3.5" 2013-14: 11.75"         2013-14: 62.30 2012-13: 16.75"         2012-13: 78.45  2011-12: 98.5"          2011-12: 92.67" It's always sunny at Winters Hill! Fighting the good fight against weather evil.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted November 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 The -41 taken at Horse Ridge in Dec 2013 was at standard 2 meter height and that wasn't an outbreak of 1933 caliber so I'd say -50 or below is definitely possible. I tend to think a weather station at Paulina Crater would probably have recorded around -50 last Dec, had there been one.Seems like a reasonable bet that an especially favored cold sink location could have seen -50 last December. Readings in that part of Oregon were similar to those seen in January 1962 when the supposed -60 took place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted November 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 The -41 last December was the lowest recorded temp in Oregon since the 89' blast wasn't it? I know the previous 21st century low that I was aware of was -33 at Seneca on 2/27/2011. Fremont hit -42 in December 1990.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted November 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 September 112F was observed at Trout Creek on 9/2/1988. This appears to be one of the best locations for downslope warming in the Cascade foothills of Oregon, similar to Darrington and Glenoma in Washington. The highest reliably measured official temperature in Oregon in September is 111F at Illahe on 9/3/1955. Trout Creek also recorded 102F on 9/27/2003 and 101F on 10/1/1987, which is the only 100F reading that I am aware of in October anywhere in the Willamette River basin.October 106F was observed at both Powers RS and Wheeler Creek on 10/10/1991. The official Powers COOP station recorded 103F that day. The highest reliably measured official temperature in Oregon in October is 104F at Dora on 10/2/1980 and the next day at Lost Creek Dam on 10/3/1980. I looked into Trout Creek some more. Looks like they hit 103 on 10/10/1991. So this reading joins the 101 on 10/1/1987 as the only 100F readings that I am aware of in the Willamette Basin in October. There was no sensor at Trout Creek in October 1980 or in the big October heat waves we saw in the 1930's (1932, 1934, 1936), but it would stand to reason for that area to hit 100 in those events too. I'm impressed at the amount of compressional warming that spot can pull off. Speaking of October 10-11, 1991 - what an amazing event for late season heat in Oregon: 106 at Powers Ranger Station106 at Wheeler Creek103 at Trout Creek103 at Powers COOP102 at Coquille99 at Agness97 at Bandon96 at Riddle95 at Gardiner95 at North Bend95 at Roseburg95 at Prospect94 at Headworks (Bull Run)94 at Newport94 at Cloverdale94 at Medford93 at Crescent City, CA90 at Long Beach, WA90 at Forest Grove90 at Oregon City89 at Marion Forks88 at Sexton Summit86 at PDX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbrChris Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Highest and Lowest Temps in Oregon By Year (2000-2013)High temperature values at Monument 2 seem overexposed so I've left them out. No other stations within a couple degrees.2013109 at Cave Jct 7/25-41 at Horse Ridge (RAWS) 12/82012107 at Cave Jct 8/12-12 at Seneca 12/292011103 at Cave Jct 8/26-33 at Seneca 2/262010107 at Cave Jct 8/25-27 at Seneca 12/312009112 at Lebanon 7/29-28 at Fort Rock 12/82008114 at Cave Jct 8/14-29 at Seneca 1/23-29 at Sunriver 12/182007113 at Dayville 7/6-14 at Seneca 1/14-14 at Austin 1/132006112 at Cave Jct 7/23-18 at Seneca 2/192005110 at Dayville 7/22-17 at Seneca 12/182004108 at Pilot Rock 7/25-22 at Enterprise 1/52003111 at Cave Jct and Fossil 7/29111 at Ontario KSRV and Owyhee Dam 7/23-18 at Seneca 12/302002115 at Monument 7/12 (seems legit)114 at Dayville and Ontario KSRV 7/13-18 at Seneca 1/292001110 at Pelton Dam 8/14110 at Ontario KSRV 7/5-16 at Seneca 1/172000110 at Pelton Dam 8/8-9 at Seneca 12/19Last occurrence of -40 or below in Oregon: -42 at Fremont on 12/21/1990.Last occurrence of -45 or below in Oregon: -48 at Seneca on 2/6/1989.Warmest temp since 2000: 114 at Dayville and Ontario on 7/13/2002 and at Cave Jct on 8/14/2008Â 1 Quote The Pacific Northwest: Where storms go to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted November 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Good stuff. I have also wondered about Monument. The 115 from July 2002 definitely seemed legit since that was one of the greatest heat waves on record for eastern OR...but then they also reported 115 in July 2003, 116 in July 2007, 115 on August 1, 2009, and then the topper - 116 on July 22, 2013 which was a totally bogus reading. They had a low of 42 that morning. They "only" topped out at 110 in the heat wave earlier that month when Boise and Ontario both hit 110...so there's no way they would add six degrees in a less impressive pattern on 7/22. Interestingly enough the readings prior to 2013 were actually somewhat believable, since all of those heat waves had other stations at 110+ east of the Cascades. Some other notes: -As mentioned, Ontario did hit 110 in July 2013 so that would exceed what you have listed-That 112 from Lebanon in July 2009 seems a bit suspect. They reported 108-112-112 on three consecutive days. Corroborating readings include all time record highs of 109 in Estacada and 108 in both Molalla and Oregon City. However, 112 on back to back days might be a bit much...maybe some over-exposure.-Meacham hit -31 in January 2004. I remember it well because it was the first -30 reading in Oregon since 1996. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbrChris Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Good stuff. I have also wondered about Monument. The 115 from July 2002 definitely seemed legit since that was one of the greatest heat waves on record for eastern OR...but then they also reported 115 in July 2003, 116 in July 2007, 115 on August 1, 2009, and then the topper - 116 on July 22, 2013 which was a totally bogus reading. They had a low of 42 that morning. They "only" topped out at 110 in the heat wave earlier that month when Boise and Ontario both hit 110...so there's no way they would add six degrees in a less impressive pattern on 7/22. Interestingly enough the readings prior to 2013 were actually somewhat believable, since all of those heat waves had other stations at 110+ east of the Cascades. Some other notes: -As mentioned, Ontario did hit 110 in July 2013 so that would exceed what you have listed-That 112 from Lebanon in July 2009 seems a bit suspect. They reported 108-112-112 on three consecutive days. Corroborating readings include all time record highs of 109 in Estacada and 108 in both Molalla and Oregon City. However, 112 on back to back days might be a bit much...maybe some over-exposure.-Meacham hit -31 in January 2004. I remember it well because it was the first -30 reading in Oregon since 1996.I would agree however other stations similarly situated in the Willamette Valley...as well as a 108 at SLE and EUG that month, seem to corroborate potential COOP readings around 110, potentially even 112. I recall Cliff Mass mentioning a 111 at Napavine, WA in the July 2009 event and I believe Centralia recorded a legit 107 on the ASOS. Hottest airmass west of the Cascades since probably 1981. I have been pulling these numbers from the NCDC state climatological publication which only lists Level 1 ASOS stations (PDX, SLE, EUG, AST, PDT etc) and not the minor automatic stations like Meacham and Ontario. I will need to go through and see if there are other records, thanks for bringing my attention to the Meacham and Ontario readings. 1 Quote The Pacific Northwest: Where storms go to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbrChris Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 Looking at April 1926:99 at Echo on 28th (state record?)Corroborated by:97 at Arlington on 28th96 at Hermiston on 28th95 at Pendleton on 28thAlso in SW OR:98 at Grants Pass on 27th97 at Modoc Orchard on 28th96 at Medford on 28thMcMinnville's 99 is obviously wrong as no other Willamette Valley sites were over 93. 1 Quote The Pacific Northwest: Where storms go to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted November 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 I would agree however other stations similarly situated in the Willamette Valley...as well as a 108 at SLE and EUG that month, seem to corroborate potential COOP readings around 110, potentially even 112. I recall Cliff Mass mentioning a 111 at Napavine, WA in the July 2009 event and I believe Centralia recorded a legit 107 on the ASOS. Hottest airmass west of the Cascades since probably 1981. I have been pulling these numbers from the NCDC state climatological publication which only lists Level 1 ASOS stations (PDX, SLE, EUG, AST, PDT etc) and not the minor automatic stations like Meacham and Ontario. I will need to go through and see if there are other records, thanks for bringing my attention to the Meacham and Ontario readings. Where are you pulling your numbers from? SLE topped out at 107 in July 2009, and EUG at 106. The all-time record for both is 108, but not from July 2009. I do remember the 111 in western WA from 2009. For some reason I thought it was at Mayfield...but it might have been Napavine. I do know that at least prior to July 2009, there had never been an official 110 reading in western WA, at least as far as I'm aware...and I don't know if that changed. I haven't researched all the COOP stations to see if any of them hit 110 in July 2009. I remember there were personal (CWOP) weather stations into the 110-112 range in the favorable locations further east from I-5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted November 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 Looking at April 1926: 99 at Echo on 28th (state record?) Corroborated by:97 at Arlington on 28th96 at Hermiston on 28th95 at Pendleton on 28th Also in SW OR:98 at Grants Pass on 27th97 at Modoc Orchard on 28th96 at Medford on 28th McMinnville's 99 is obviously wrong as no other Willamette Valley sites were over 93. I'm showing 94 in Echo in April 1926. The 98 in Grants Pass is a good one. I have no problem believing that reading is legit, given that heat wave. I must have missed that one when I was compiling my database. So if in theory the 98 in Cave Junction from 2009 was over-exposed (not saying it was but the possibility is there), then I would have no problem giving the state record to Grants Pass from 1926. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbrChris Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 I'm showing 94 in Echo in April 1926. The 98 in Grants Pass is a good one. I have no problem believing that reading is legit, given that heat wave. I must have missed that one when I was compiling my database. So if in theory the 98 in Cave Junction from 2009 was over-exposed (not saying it was but the possibility is there), then I would have no problem giving the state record to Grants Pass from 1926.Interesting, the state climatological summary for April 1926 (see NCDC publications) lists 99 at Echo on 4-28-1926. You're right about July 2009...I didn't go back and look thinking SLE and EUG beat PDX by a couple degrees. Quote The Pacific Northwest: Where storms go to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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