2016 Fall Off Topic Thread AKA Football or Politics

[Deweydog]

Bill O'Reilly is a windbag but he is much more fair in his old age than years ago. He calls it pretty fair overall and calls foul on both sides.

 

Hannity is cringe-worthy with lines like "they want to hurt you, the American people". He is just a puppet. I stay away from Limbaugh but I assume he is the same.

I flip back and forth for an hour between Hannity and Maddow.

 

I'm a very confused person.

[Deweydog]

Just kool-aid. I guess they will be wearing all black too. They must all be teachers.

[Jesse]

 

Lol, yes I got the reference.

 

Did you get the crazy armageddon flier for that event in the mail? We did and most people I know did too. I spent a little while laughing at the ridiculous scene on the front of it. I don't understand the four-headed cheetah.

[bainbridgekid]

I don't like the pick. I don't mind the idea of giving states more latitude when it comes to educaction options, but the idea of putting such a politicized individual in that kind of position is pretty dumb.

 

That said, wearing black? Really???

I was pretty much waiting for this response from you 

 

It's not as if anyone expects wearing black alone to fix things.    Like I said, we've been systematically calling senators who were on the fence about confirming her and explaining why she is unqualified for the position. Millions of calls add up, and are likely the reason she needed a VP tiebreak to be confirmed.

 

Much like the Women's Marches, wearing black to teach tomorrow is a show of solidarity and unity. A subtle way of displaying our unified protest and displeasure about what is happening. It alone does not necessarily change anything, but there is a limit to how politically involved teachers can be at school. Changing your wardrobe is about that limit, so I say go for it. 

 

I was one of many teachers who wore black on November 9th as well.

[bainbridgekid]

Lol, yes I got the reference.

 

Did you get the crazy armageddon flier for that event in the mail? We did and most people I know did too. I spent a little while laughing at the ridiculous scene on the front of it. I don't understand the four-headed cheetah.

My friend in Camas was telling me about that thing. Looked like quite the experience. 

[Deweydog]

Lol, yes I got the reference.

 

Did you get the crazy armageddon flier for that event in the mail? We did and most people I know did too. I spent a little while laughing at the ridiculous scene on the front of it. I don't understand the four-headed cheetah.

Four-headed cheetahs sound pretty badass.

 

And we missed out on the mailer. Probably a bit too far off the grid.

[bainbridgekid]

I guess I see activism as something that should be more focused. Like with the all black thing. What does it accomplish beyond that of vague symbolism and like-minded comradery? Teach kids that sometimes things don't break your way and sometimes you just have to power through and live to fight another day. No one died.

This feels like a very cynical way of looking at things.

 

I would say peaceful protest of policies you think are harmful to the future of the country is a pretty integral part of "powering through and living to fight another day."

 

I definitely agree that activism should be focused, but you have to start somewhere. If you criticize the beginning of any movement that gets people involved, you never get to the more focused and productive activism.

[Front Ranger]

I don't think the article is saying that all of the failures of Trump policy so far have been 100% thanks to the protests, just that they have likely played a role. Those who are generally against his policies should feel encouraged.

 

I know there was a massive turnout in people calling their congress persons and senators to speak against the bill to sell off public lands in particular. I realize it goes against your incredibly cynical world view but that sort of thing can actually have an impact.

 

Yes, it absolutely can, and I'm 100% for it.

 

I was just pointing out some of the broader reality the article didn't touch on. If you just read it at face value, the only real conclusion to reach was that all of those things were a result of the protesters/callers. There are other factors any intellectually honest person can acknowledge, regardless of whether it fits their preferred narrative or not.

[Front Ranger]

DeVos was confirmed as Education Secretary by a 50-50 vote in the senate with the tie broken by Pence.

 

I know a lot of fellow teachers and every single teacher I know is dismayed by her confirmation. I'd say that is pretty telling.

 

This was actually a first for a cabinet appointment. The only reason it was 50/50 was because two Republicans didn't vote along party lines.

[Deweydog]

This feels like a very cynical way of looking at things.

 

I would say peaceful protest of policies you think are harmful to the future of the country is a pretty integral part of "powering through and living to fight another day."

 

I definitely agree that activism should be focused, but you have to start somewhere. If you criticize the beginning of any movement that gets people involved, you never get to the more focused and productive activism.

You don't think wearing black, typically associated with death/mourning, is a bit cynical in itself?

 

I see what I said as being a more positive outlook. Look forward, not back and fight the fights that need fighting. At this point there's nothing to fight. When there is, fight like hell.

[Front Ranger]

I was pretty much waiting for this response from you 

 

It's not as if anyone expects wearing black alone to fix things.    Like I said, we've been systematically calling senators who were on the fence about confirming her and explaining why she is unqualified for the position. Millions of calls add up, and are likely the reason she needed a VP tiebreak to be confirmed.

 

Much like the Women's Marches, wearing black to teach tomorrow is a show of solidarity and unity. A subtle way of displaying our unified protest and displeasure about what is happening. It alone does not necessarily change anything, but there is a limit to how politically involved teachers can be at school. Changing your wardrobe is about that limit, so I say go for it. 

 

I was one of many teachers who wore black on November 9th as well.

 

I agree that Dewey is coming across as overly cynical, but I have to ask: at what point do things like this lose their meaning, if used too often? Wearing black is obviously highly symbolic.

 

A president is elected that we don't approve of: wear black.

 

Cabinet appointee we don't like: wear black.

 

Many associate wearing black with undeniable tragedy. In some ways, using it as a message sender cheapens that. No offense...that just comes with the territory. Look at the history of wearing black.

[bainbridgekid]

You don't think wearing black, typically associated with death/mourning, is a bit cynical in itself?

 

I see what I said as being a more positive outlook. Look forward, not back and fight the fights that need fighting. At this point there's nothing to fight. When there is, fight like hell.

 

 

I agree that Dewey is coming across as overly cynical, but I have to ask: at what point do things like this lose their meaning, if used too often? Wearing black is obviously highly symbolic.

 

A president is elected that we don't approve of: wear black.

 

Cabinet appointee we don't like: wear black.

 

Many associate wearing black with undeniable tragedy. In some ways, using it as a message sender cheapens that. No offense...that just comes with the territory. Look at the history of wearing black.

I agree it is a bit dramatic, but that is kind of the point. DeVos is dramatically unqualified and she has proposed some dramatically terrible things.

 

There was literally already a bill introduced today to eliminate the Department of Education. I'd like to believe it has zero chance of ever passing, but that is the kind of extreme rhetoric we are potentially up against.

[Front Ranger]

I agree it is a bit dramatic, but that is kind of the point. DeVos is dramatically unqualified and she has proposed some dramatically terrible things.

 

There was literally already a bill introduced today to eliminate the Department of Education. I'd like to believe it has zero chance of ever passing, but that is the kind of extreme rhetoric we are potentially up against.

 

That wasn't actually tied to DeVos though, was it? Seemed like a rogue, random move.

[bainbridgekid]

That wasn't actually tied to DeVos though, was it? Seemed like a rogue, random move.

No, but nothing happens in a vacuum.

 

I don' think it was entirely coincidental that bill was introduced the same day she was confirmed.

 

But even if it was a coincidence, it's not just DeVos that has teachers so up in arms. Her rhetoric about privatizing education, breaking up the teacher unions, and removing National standards is supported by many Republicans in congress as well.

[Jesse]

I agree it is a bit dramatic, but that is kind of the point. DeVos is dramatically unqualified and she has proposed some dramatically terrible things.

 

There was literally already a bill introduced today to eliminate the Department of Education. I'd like to believe it has zero chance of ever passing, but that is the kind of extreme rhetoric we are potentially up against.

 

Keep posting over here. I feel so alone sometimes.

[Deweydog]

I agree it is a bit dramatic, but that is kind of the point. DeVos is dramatically unqualified and she has proposed some dramatically terrible things.

 

There was literally already a bill introduced today to eliminate the Department of Education. I'd like to believe it has zero chance of ever passing, but that is the kind of extreme rhetoric we are potentially up against.

For a small government-minded individual like me, the idea of a reduced federal element doesn't necessarily sound all that bad, but yes that is extreme and obviously a symbolic bill. Extreme symbolism can flow both ways.

 

I just have issues with more of the same. At some point, it's the combination of overreaction versus overreaction which will get us into real trouble. It's a ** for tat pace that simply can't be maintained and there's already such negative inertia on both sides it makes moderates like me (and a lot of others, I'm sure) feel extremely alienated and ultimately disinterested.

 

We just came out of an extremely polarized election cycle and people seem to only be digging their heels in even deeper.

[TT-SEA]

SNL has found new relevance.   Trump watches it and takes it personally.  

 

Trump was clearly disturbed by the opening skit in which Bannon is depicted as the grim reaper and Trump as an obedient servant.   Tweeting shortly after that he calls his own shots based on an accumulation of data.    

 

And then this story about Melissa McCarthy playing Sean Spicer... could he be fired because of an SNL skit?    Rosie O'Donnell might get an ongoing gig as Bannon.   

 

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/melissa-mccarthy-sean-spicer-234715

 

More than being lampooned as a press secretary who makes up facts, it was Spicer’s portrayal by a woman that was most problematic in the president’s eyes, according to sources close to him. And the unflattering send-up by a female comedian was not considered helpful for Spicer’s longevity in the grueling, high-profile job in which he has struggled to strike the right balance between representing an administration that considers the media the "opposition party," and developing a functional relationship with the press.

[Deweydog]

No, but nothing happens in a vacuum.

 

I don' think it was entirely coincidental that bill was introduced the same day she was confirmed.

 

But even if it was a coincidence, it's not just DeVos that has teachers so up in arms. Her rhetoric about privatizing education, breaking up the teacher unions, and removing National standards is supported by many Republicans in congress as well.

I find the union issue one I struggle with. I'm not an anti-union person per se, but I see teachers on a level similar to law enforcement. Laws are in place forbidding law enforcement from striking or altering their work performance in any way to gain leverage. Officers have been terminated and even prosecuted for allegations of "blue flus" or professional misconduct as a result of dereliction of duty. I have trouble rationalizing why teachers should have the right to strike as opposed to simply collective bargain with binding arbitration.

[Front Ranger]

SNL has found new relevance.   Trump watches it and takes it personally.  

 

Trump was clearly disturbed by the opening skit in which Bannon is depicted as the grim reaper and Trump as an obedient servant.   Tweeting shortly after that he calls his own shots based on an accumulation of data.  

 

And then this story about Melissa McCarthy playing Sean Spicer... could he be fired because of an SNL skit?    Rosie O'Donnell might get an ongoing gig as Bannon.   

 

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/melissa-mccarthy-sean-spicer-234715

 

More than being lampooned as a press secretary who makes up facts, it was Spicer’s portrayal by a woman that was most problematic in the president’s eyes, according to sources close to him. And the unflattering send-up by a female comedian was not considered helpful for Spicer’s longevity in the grueling, high-profile job in which he has struggled to strike the right balance between representing an administration that considers the media the "opposition party," and developing a functional relationship with the press.

 

Spicer has a very tough job. Impossible, really.

 

But at least he and Bannon are keeping chubby female comedians relevant!

[bainbridgekid]

I find the union issue one I struggle with. I'm not an anti-union person per se, but I see teachers on a level similar to law enforcement. Laws are in place forbidding law enforcement from striking or altering their work performance in any way to gain leverage. Officers have been terminated and even prosecuted for allegations of "blue flus" or professional misconduct as a result of dereliction of duty. I have trouble rationalizing why teachers should have the right to strike as opposed to simply collective bargain with binding arbitration.

I definitely don't agree with everything the teachers unions do.

 

Their defense of bad teachers and outright opposition to any form of merit pay strike me as misguided attempts at egalitarianism at the expense of excellence.

 

However, there is no doubt in my mind that they do FAR more good than bad for the quality of education in this country. We already have a teacher shortage. Without strong unions collectively bargaining on behalf of educators, the job would just become even less attractive than it already is, which would cause a decline in the quality of teachers.

 

I'd say there's a pretty big difference between teachers and police though. School days missed because of a strike can be made up at a later date. You can't makeup for the crimes committed if cops went on strike.

[Jesse]

For a small government-minded individual like me, the idea of a reduced federal element doesn't necessarily sound all that bad, but yes that is extreme and obviously a symbolic bill. Extreme symbolism can flow both ways.

 

I just have issues with more of the same. At some point, it's the combination of overreaction versus overreaction which will get us into real trouble. It's a ** for tat pace that simply can't be maintained and there's already such negative inertia on both sides it makes moderates like me (and a lot of others, I'm sure) feel extremely alienated and ultimately disinterested.

 

We just came out of an extremely polarized election cycle and people seem to only be digging their heels in even deeper.

 

I agree with most of this, and at their worst the extremes definitely concern me too. I just don't see wearing black in the wake of the razor-thin confirmation of an extremely anti-public education education secretary to be all that crazy. Or calling senators and congresspeople to oppose a bill that would sell off public land. Or protesting immigration bans that are (in my opinion) inherently un-American.

 

It seems like you are implying you think we could be heading toward a civil war or something? I guess if you imagine that all of the left are behaving like the anarchists at Berkely and in Seattle then perhaps. What I see is a majority liberal (center-left) country standing up mostly peacefully to the backwards ideology of an unqualified President that slipped in despite a huge popular vote deficit thanks to an antiquated electoral system.

[TT-SEA]

Spicer has a very tough job. Impossible, really.

 

But at least he's keeping chubby female comedians relevant!

 

I was thinking the other day that he should be the highest paid person in the administration.   What an impossible job having to defend the ramblings of Trump.   And then he has to know such specific information about so many things and be able to talk intelligently about all of it as people are shooting questions at you.     And if you make a mistake then you are all over the news for the next day.   

[Front Ranger]

I definitely don't agree with everything the teachers unions do.

 

Their defense of bad teachers and outright opposition to any form of merit pay strike me as misguided attempts at egalitarianism at the expense of excellence.

 

However, there is no doubt in my mind that they do FAR more good than bad for the quality of education in this country. We already have a teacher shortage. Without strong unions collectively bargaining on behalf of educators, the job would just become even less attractive than it already is, which would cause a decline in the quality of teachers.

 

I'd say there's a pretty big difference between teachers and police though. School days missed because of a strike can be made up at a later date. You can't makeup for the crimes committed if cops went on strike.

 

At the same time, this argument could be used to defend just about any worker's union. Are you in favor of strong labor unions in general?

 

I say this as someone who went to college to be a teacher, and has one parent who has made a career in education. I don't necessarily think good teachers are attracted to the position for the traditional reasons most people are attracted to careers, but I can also see how some potentially great teachers would be scared away from a bad deal. That should never happen.

[Front Ranger]

I was thinking the other day that he should be the highest paid person in the administration.   What an impossible job having to defend the ramblings of Trump.   And then he has to know such specific information about so many things and be able to talk intelligently about all of it as people are shooting questions at you.     And if you make a mistake then you are all over the news for the next day.   

 

Exactly. SNL (or whatever) fodder, no matter what you do.

[Deweydog]

I agree with most of this, and at their worst the extremes definitely concern me too. I just don't see wearing black in the wake of the confirmation of an extremely anti-public education education secretary to be all that crazy. Or calling senators and congresspeople to oppose a bill that would sell off public land. Or protesting immigration bans that are (in my opinion) inherently un-American.

 

It seems like you are implying you think we could be heading toward a civil war or something? I guess if you imagine that all of the left are behaving like the anarchists at Berkely and in Seattle then perhaps. What I see is a majority liberal country standing up mostly peacefully to the backwards ideology of an unqualified President that slipped in despite a huge popular vote deficit thanks to an antiquated electoral system.

This has nothing to do with the anarchist fringe and civil war. This has to do with meaningful progress with elements from both sides of the aisle.

 

And continuing this electoral argument only furthers my overall point. It's mindless rhetoric based on the past. Beside that, if HRC had won, we wouldn't exactly be in heaven. She'd be 18 days into an extremely embattled presidency herself, just for different reasons than Grumpy Trumpy.

[Front Ranger]

I agree with most of this, and at their worst the extremes definitely concern me too. I just don't see wearing black in the wake of the razor-thin confirmation of an extremely anti-public education education secretary to be all that crazy. Or calling senators and congresspeople to oppose a bill that would sell off public land. Or protesting immigration bans that are (in my opinion) inherently un-American.

 

It seems like you are implying you think we could be heading toward a civil war or something? I guess if you imagine that all of the left are behaving like the anarchists at Berkely and in Seattle then perhaps. What I see is a majority liberal (center-left) country standing up mostly peacefully to the backwards ideology of an unqualified President that slipped in despite a huge popular vote deficit thanks to an antiquated electoral system.

 

Regardless of Trump's ideology (I personally think he has very little real ideology), the main reason he's president isn't because of an "antiquated" electoral system. It's because there were a lot of people who wanted something different than HRC. The center-left Democratic party couldn't offer up anything better, so this is what they got.

 

Again: I would have voted for Bernie.

[bainbridgekid]

At the same time, this argument could be used to defend just about any worker's union. Are you in favor of strong labor unions in general?

 

I say this as someone who went to college to be a teacher, and has one parent who has made a career in education. I don't necessarily think good teachers are attracted to the position for the traditional reasons most people are attracted to careers, but I can also see how some potentially great teachers would be scared away from a bad deal. That should never happen.

I am definitely generally a supporter of worker unions, yes. Though not blindly so. Like I said, they are far from perfect, but do much more good than bad.

 

I recognize that as a teacher I am inherently biased, but I don't think it's a stretch to say that having the highest quality teacher possible in every classroom is one of the most important things we can do to ensure a successful future as a country. 

 

Unfortunately, the teacher shortage has made it alarmingly easy to get a job as a teacher, especially in low-income schools which do not make for very attractive jobs. I know several principals in schools like that who struggle to get people to even apply for the jobs, which forces them to hire the people who couldn't get jobs at other schools. That's really harmful to the country, and the best way to fix it is to diversify and enlarge the pool of potential applicants.

 

As for your point about the motives behind teachers choosing it for a career, it's complicated. Undoubtedly, salary is not the number one reason people have for becoming teachers. We love kids. We love feeling we are making a difference. We even love our Summers off. But at the end of the day, we're people with families to support, and if you think we don't notice when our paycheck changes, you're crazy.

 

I also think the relatively low salary is a big reason why many otherwise highly qualified people choose NOT to go into teaching. Exceptional people who can go make two or three times as much money doing something else are usually going to do so.

 

The turnover rate for teachers is also alarmingly high. 50% of all teachers leave the field within 5 years of starting. While I am sure the reasons for that are complex, lowering pay/benefits certainly wouldn't help, and that's exactly what busting up unions would result in.

[Money]

I am definitely generally a supporter of worker unions, yes. Though not blindly so. Like I said, they are far from perfect, but do much more good than bad.

 

I recognize that as a teacher I am inherently biased, but I don't think it's a stretch to say that having the highest quality teacher possible in every classroom is one of the most important things we can do to ensure a successful future as a country. 

 

Unfortunately, the teacher shortage has made it alarmingly easy to get a job as a teacher, especially in low-income schools which do not make for very attractive jobs. I know several principals in schools like that who struggle to get people to even apply for the jobs, which forces them to hire the people who couldn't get jobs at other schools. That's really harmful to the country, and the best way to fix it is to diversify and enlarge the pool of potential applicants.

 

As for your point about the motives behind teachers choosing it for a career, it's complicated. Undoubtedly, salary is not the number one reason people have for becoming teachers. We love kids. We love feeling we are making a difference. We even love our Summers off. But at the end of the day, we're people with families to support, and if you think we don't notice when our paycheck changes, you're crazy.

 

I also think the relatively low salary is a big reason why many otherwise highly qualified people choose NOT to go into teaching. Exceptional people who can go make two or three times as much money doing something else are usually going to do so.

 

The turnover rate for teachers is also alarmingly high. 50% of all teachers leave the field within 5 years of starting. While I am sure the reasons for that are complex, lowering pay/benefits certainly wouldn't help, and that's exactly what busting up unions would result in.

 

Problem I hate about Teacher Unions (and most unions in general) is seniority. There's way too many older teachers who should not be teaching anymore and taking away from the younger/better teachers. 

[Money]

Also, teachers really are not that underpaid. They are generally in the 40-50k after a few years which is a middle class income. 

[bainbridgekid]

Problem I hate about Teacher Unions (and most unions in general) is seniority. There's way too many older teachers who should not be teaching anymore and taking away from the younger/better teachers. 

Like I said, the unions are far from perfect. But they do vastly more good than bad.

 

As a young teacher, it is frustrating having salary based almost entirely on seniority. There are undoubtedly many burnt out older teachers who would be better off moving onto something else, but I don't agree that they are taking away form younger teachers. Like I said, we have a teacher shortage, not a surplus.

 

Also, teachers really are not that underpaid. They are generally in the 40-50k after a few years which is a middle class income. 

Teachers should be paid more not because teachers deserve more money, but because students deserve the better teachers that higher salaries would attract.

 

Think of how much more money doctors and lawyers make. In many countries teachers are elevated to a similar social status and are paid as such. This makes teaching a highly competitive and sought after field and vastly improves their education systems.

[epiceast]

I am definitely generally a supporter of worker unions, yes. Though not blindly so. Like I said, they are far from perfect, but do much more good than bad.

 

I recognize that as a teacher I am inherently biased, but I don't think it's a stretch to say that having the highest quality teacher possible in every classroom is one of the most important things we can do to ensure a successful future as a country. 

 

Unfortunately, the teacher shortage has made it alarmingly easy to get a job as a teacher, especially in low-income schools which do not make for very attractive jobs. I know several principals in schools like that who struggle to get people to even apply for the jobs, which forces them to hire the people who couldn't get jobs at other schools. That's really harmful to the country, and the best way to fix it is to diversify and enlarge the pool of potential applicants.

 

As for your point about the motives behind teachers choosing it for a career, it's complicated. Undoubtedly, salary is not the number one reason people have for becoming teachers. We love kids. We love feeling we are making a difference. We even love our Summers off. But at the end of the day, we're people with families to support, and if you think we don't notice when our paycheck changes, you're crazy.

 

I also think the relatively low salary is a big reason why many otherwise highly qualified people choose NOT to go into teaching. Exceptional people who can go make two or three times as much money doing something else are usually going to do so.

 

The turnover rate for teachers is also alarmingly high. 50% of all teachers leave the field within 5 years of starting. While I am sure the reasons for that are complex, lowering pay/benefits certainly wouldn't help, and that's exactly what busting up unions would result in.

It hasn't. There have only been a dozen hires outside without the proper certification in Pasco since the beginning of teacher shortage (one of the least attractive districts to teach in our state). If there are teachers getting their MATs who are not qualified the problem lies somewhere else. And not to mention there have been an extreme glut of teachers for a few years after 2010.

[bainbridgekid]

It's not. There have only been a dozen hires outside without the proper certification in Pasco since the beginning of teacher shortage (one of the least attractive districts to teach in our state). If there are teachers getting their MATs who are not qualified the problem lies somewhere else. And not to mention there have been an extreme glut of teachers for a few years after 2010.

It is. The teacher shortage is real. Whether it is a short term phenomenon or a sign of more long term problems is up for debate, but it's happening.

 

I'm not sure what you mean about the teachers being hired without proper certification, but that shouldn't be happening at all. If it happened 12 times in Pasco in a year, I'd say that's a problem.

 

The reason it was hard to get a job as a teacher after 2010 was because the economy went in the tank which caused everyone's pensions to lose value and older teachers delayed retirement. Districts also had to make budget cuts which resulted in temporary hiring freezes.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/america-has-a-teacher-shortage-and-a-new-study-says-its-getting-worse/2016/09/14/d5de1cee-79e8-11e6-beac-57a4a412e93a_story.html?utm_term=.539114052902

 

Enrollment in teacher-preparation programs dropped from 691,000 in 2009 to 451,000 in 2014, a 35 percent decline, according to the study, “A Coming Crisis in Teaching? Teacher Supply, Demand and Shortages in the U.S.”

“Our analysis estimates that U.S. classrooms were short approximately 60,000 teachers last year,” Leib Sutcher, the study’s co-author, told reporters Tuesday ahead of the study’s release. “Unless we can shift these trends, annual teacher shortages could increase to over 100,000 teachers by 2018 and remain close to that level thereafter.”

[epiceast]

It is. The teacher shortage is real. Whether it is a short term phenomenon or a sign of more long term problems is up for debate, but it's happening.

 

I'm not sure what you mean about the teachers being hired without proper certification, but that shouldn't be happening at all. If it happened 12 times in Pasco in a year, I'd say that's a problem.

 

The reason it was hard to get a job as a teacher after 2010 was because the economy went in the tank which caused everyone's pensions to lose value and older teachers delayed retirement. Districts also had to make budget cuts which resulted in temporary hiring freezes.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/america-has-a-teacher-shortage-and-a-new-study-says-its-getting-worse/2016/09/14/d5de1cee-79e8-11e6-beac-57a4a412e93a_story.html?utm_term=.539114052902

 

Enrollment in teacher-preparation programs dropped from 691,000 in 2009 to 451,000 in 2014, a 35 percent decline, according to the study, “A Coming Crisis in Teaching? Teacher Supply, Demand and Shortages in the U.S.”

“Our analysis estimates that U.S. classrooms were short approximately 60,000 teachers last year,” Leib Sutcher, the study’s co-author, told reporters Tuesday ahead of the study’s release. “Unless we can shift these trends, annual teacher shortages could increase to over 100,000 teachers by 2018 and remain close to that level thereafter.”

My point here is that anyone who has gone through a teaching program should be a qualified teacher. Obviously *starting* wages and standards of the programs would have to be raised for that. I don't know how many teachers have actually got hired with only a bachelors and a summer training program or whatever they do in Pasco, but I know it's in the single digits every year since the shortage(and it's a huge poorly performing district), and if they are hiring only a few candidates like that, other districts are hiring "qualified" candidates. I don't see why young teachers should have to become subs for a year or longer and only then be eligible to get hired only at their school(logical result of a market where principals get to pick the hires). It would make a lot more sense if teachers get matched like doctors to a school as soon as they enroll into a masters program and pass a certain point in it, especially since there is only one employer.

[bainbridgekid]

My point here is that anyone who has gone through a teaching program should be a qualified teacher. Obviously *starting* wages and standards of the programs would have to be raised for that. I don't know how many teachers have actually got hired with only a bachelors and a summer training program or whatever they do in Pasco, but I know it's in the single digits every year since the shortage(and it's a huge poorly performing district), and if they are hiring only a few candidates like that, other districts are hiring "qualified" candidates. I don't see why young teachers should have to become subs for a year or longer and only then be eligible to get hired only at their school(logical result of a market where principals get to pick the hires). It would make a lot more sense if teachers get matched like doctors to a school as soon as they enroll into a masters program and pass a certain point in it, especially since there is only one employer.

I disagree. It is a very difficult and extremely important job. There are a lot of teacher programs with pretty low standards that are both easy to get into and relatively easy to graduate from. Not everyone who goes through a teaching program will automatically make a good teacher. 

 

I agree you shouldn't have to sub for a year befoer you can get hired. And you don't. I just got my Masters in Teaching from UW in 2015 and nearly every single person in my class of 63 students got a job teaching right away.

 

I'm not really sure I understand your last point about matching teachers to schools during their program though. You already do student teaching in a particular school, but I don't know too many teachers who went on to be hired by the same school.

[epiceast]

I disagree. It is a very difficult and extremely important job. There are a lot of teacher programs with pretty low standards that are both easy to get into and relatively easy to graduate from. Not everyone who goes through a teaching program will automatically make a good teacher. 

 

I agree you shouldn't have to sub for a year befoer you can get hired. And you don't. I just got my Masters in Teaching from UW in 2015 and nearly every single person in my class of 63 students got a job teaching right away.

 

I'm not really sure I understand your last point about matching teachers to schools during their program though. You already do student teaching in a particular school, but I don't know too many teachers who went on to be hired by the same school.

My point is that there shouldn't be shitty teacher programs, and the regulatory body should only allow them to accept as many students as there are spots for student-teachers/interns/whatever you want to call them who will become teachers after they graduate. It's very easy for school districts to anticipate how many teacher hires they will make a year or two out unlike the private sector.

[Guest happ]

Trump must have major hatred of the state of Washington considering the Seattle federal judge and now Nordstrom drops his daughter's merchandise    

[Jesse]

Four-headed cheetahs sound pretty badass.

And we missed out on the mailer. Probably a bit too far off the grid.

[Jesse]

I don't remember there being dragons in the Bible.

[TT-SEA]

Ha! 

 

Trump's own pick for the Supreme Court (Gorsuch) said today that Trump's tweets are "demoralizing".   

 

Trump will slowly sink with his childish behavior.   

[Front Ranger]

I don't remember there being dragons in the Bible.

 

Game of Thrones totally ripped off the Bible.