wx_statman Posted December 4, 2017 Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 At the Paradise Ranger Station, the heatwave you are referring to was quickly followed by a cool period around those dates, but it doesn't seem extremely cold. I guess I can see the area farther north being a day ahead for the cold air, but still 16 seems too low. The 23rd and 24th were also cool at Paradise, but nothing really out of the ordinary. Here is the data from the Paradise Ranger Station: paradise.JPG The readings mentioned do seem suspect, but I thought I would mention them anyway, just in case. Yeah, 55/36 just isn't that cold for Paradise in late August. I agree that it's best to mention old records even if they do seem suspect. If nothing else, we can have a dialogue about them like we just did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted December 4, 2017 Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 Here's another August reading that may be worth looking into. It also seems somewhat suspect, though certainly not out of the realm of possibility. 21 at Satus Pass 2SSW on 8/31/1985. If the old readings at Cascade Tunnel and Berne are dismissed, this might be another contender for the state record in August, but it too does seem somewhat suspect. The reason I'd consider it somewhat suspect is because the reading is almost as cold as the one from there in September 1985, which was a more out of the ordinary cold snap in other locations. The same station does seem capable of producing low summer readings though, so I wouldn't write it off completely. 8/17/1976 for example, did report a 23. Several other readings in July and August have been in the mid-20's. It does seem possible that the 21 is legitimate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 AugustRecord low: 20 at Cascade Tunnell on 8/19 and 8/20/1896. Few stations in 1896 so this reading is tough to corroborate, however Wenatchee fell to 35 on 8/10/1896. Supposedly Cascade Tunnel also hit 20 on 8/27/1896 and 8/28/1926. I checked Cascade Tunnel out of curiosity. The obs for August 1896 look like a joke. It almost looks like the observer didn't bother recording the minimums that month (probably busy drinking and sleeping in late), and then just wrote in a bunch of numbers that he made up at the end of the month. There's no way any of those minimums were 20 degrees. Our COOP network strikes again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 Lol, at least try to make it look realistic, right? 1 Quote Live Weather Cam: https://www.youtube.com/live/KxlIo8-KVpc?si=xKLCFYWbZieAfyh6 PWS Wunderground https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KMDBETHE62 PWS CWOP/NOAA: https://www.weather.gov/wrh/timeseries?site=F3819&hours=72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 Lol, at least try to make it look realistic, right? I bet what actually happened was his minimum thermometer broke, and he estimated the temps to within 10 degrees based on how he felt. I know they used 2 thermo's in those days, maximum and minimum, both self-registering. So he could drink and sleep in late all he wanted and still record real minimums. Meaning that my first theory probably won't hold up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 I bet what actually happened was his minimum thermometer broke, and he estimated the temps to within 10 degrees based on how he felt. I know they used 2 thermo's in those days, maximum and minimum, both self-registering. So he could drink and sleep in late all he wanted and still record real minimums. Meaning that my first theory probably won't hold up. So there were separate thermometers for minimums and maximums? Quote Live Weather Cam: https://www.youtube.com/live/KxlIo8-KVpc?si=xKLCFYWbZieAfyh6 PWS Wunderground https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KMDBETHE62 PWS CWOP/NOAA: https://www.weather.gov/wrh/timeseries?site=F3819&hours=72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 So there were separate thermometers for minimums and maximums? Yeah. One to register the maximum, one to register the minimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 Yeah. One to register the maximum, one to register the minimum.Why is that necessary? I’ve never heard of that before. Quote Live Weather Cam: https://www.youtube.com/live/KxlIo8-KVpc?si=xKLCFYWbZieAfyh6 PWS Wunderground https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KMDBETHE62 PWS CWOP/NOAA: https://www.weather.gov/wrh/timeseries?site=F3819&hours=72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 Why is that necessary? I’ve never heard of that before. Scroll to p. 13 under "thermometers" https://www1.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/orders/IPS/IPS-2655C5AF-8504-47D0-8D5B-B5B781951CD7.pdf That's how they rolled back then. This is the first-ever OR monthly climo report (April 1889), so it contains all the specs and instructions for COOP observers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 Scroll to p. 13 under "thermometers" https://www1.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/orders/IPS/IPS-2655C5AF-8504-47D0-8D5B-B5B781951CD7.pdf That's how they rolled back then. This is the first-ever OR monthly climo report (April 1889), so it contains all the specs and instructions for COOP observers.Interesting. Were these dual thermometers used just in Oregon and/or certain areas of the country? Or was standardized nationally? Maybe I’m just behind the curve but I don’t recall this practice being employed around these parts. Then again this isn’t something I’ve studied. Quote Live Weather Cam: https://www.youtube.com/live/KxlIo8-KVpc?si=xKLCFYWbZieAfyh6 PWS Wunderground https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KMDBETHE62 PWS CWOP/NOAA: https://www.weather.gov/wrh/timeseries?site=F3819&hours=72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 Interesting. Were these dual thermometers used just in Oregon and/or certain areas of the country? Or was standardized nationally? Maybe I’m just behind the curve but I don’t recall this practice being employed around these parts. Then again this isn’t something I’ve studied. I'm not sure. I would imagine yes, since Oregon probably took their direction from above. Oregon stations in 1889 were part of the Signal Service network (the direct predecessor to the COOP network), which was national. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted April 7, 2018 Report Share Posted April 7, 2018 I checked Cascade Tunnel out of curiosity. The obs for August 1896 look like a joke. It almost looks like the observer didn't bother recording the minimums that month (probably busy drinking and sleeping in late), and then just wrote in a bunch of numbers that he made up at the end of the month. There's no way any of those minimums were 20 degrees. Dang. The highs look pretty much like a joke too. What about the 1926 reading? Either way, it doesn't seem to be a good weather station to trust. Which begs the question, what is the lowest legitimate August temperature in Washington? Possible candidates: 21 at Status Pass on 8/31/198523 at Cle Elum on 8/24/1910 23 at Bumping Lake on 8/23/1910 More recently Wellpinit had a 24 on 8/25/2006, but it doesn't seem that cold of a location. PS, what ever happened to IbrChris? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx_statman Posted April 7, 2018 Report Share Posted April 7, 2018 My initial hunch would be August 1910. I attached a screenshot of the lowest minimums from WA that month. That was definitely a verifiable, historic cold snap for August. As we had discussed previously, this is the same cold wave that dropped Bowen, Montana to 5 degrees for the US monthly August record low. 23 degrees was also reached at Deer Park on 8/29/1937, the same cold wave that produced the OR state record low for August (13 at Seneca). The Satus Pass reading from August 1985 is interesting but is difficult to corroborate, being a mountain pass without any nearby stations with similar elevation/topography to cross-check. Satus Pass also hit 23 on 8/17/1976; this was a major mid-summer cold trough that I am aware of, so that reading has some credibility with me. Also, Cliff Ridge RAWS hit 20 during the August 1992 cold wave. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted April 7, 2018 Report Share Posted April 7, 2018 My initial hunch would be August 1910. I attached a screenshot of the lowest minimums from WA that month. That was definitely a verifiable, historic cold snap for August. As we had discussed previously, this is the same cold wave that dropped Bowen, Montana to 5 degrees for the US monthly August record low. Off topic a little, but 1910 was sure an interesting weather year as far as off season temperatures go. The March 1910 heat wave was possibly the most impressive March heatwave to ever hit the Plains and Midwest. Some impressive readings (especially for March): 100 at Hugoton Kansas89 At Lapeer Michigan88 at Montevideo Minnesota88 at Miles City Montana101 at Grant Nebraska90 at Edmore 1NW North Dakota88 At Kennewick Washington (it seems that Chris discounted this reading though?). May 1910 had a really impressive heat wave in much of Utah and Nevada. 108 at St George Utah103 at Richfield Utah (the second hottest temperature ever recorded there in any month). August 1910 was perhaps the most impressive summer cold snap anywhere in the United States with places like Bowen and Hegben Dam recording 5 degrees (3 degrees colder than the May record and only one degree from the September record). December 1910 had another heat wave in the Southwest with temperatures soaring to a reported 91 at Las Vegas, but this one seems dubious. If there were more weather stations in the US in 1910 there would be a lot more records set in all of the months mentioned above. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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