2016 Fall Off Topic Thread AKA Football or Politics

[Jesse]

Because he hates globalism and I hate globalism.

Would you like Obama if you somehow realized that you guys both hate Grey Poupon mustard?

[snow_wizard]

Yeah, overall Trump's statements regarding Israel have been pretty inconvenient to the anti-Semitic narrative.

Indeed. Even Breitbart News has quite a few Jews on their staff. The anti-Semitism argument is a total red herring.

 

The only ones Bannon has a problem with are the ones like George Soros who do everything they can to undermine the sovereignty of this country. We are talking about 1 in a million at most. Even then he hates them for their politics not because they are Jewish.

[Front Ranger]

Glad you were able to point out the things you have issues with.

 

I thought he made some good points about the potential long term fate of our democracy. Also about out of control protesting playing into Trump's hands.

 

The premise of the article is a speculative work of fiction. I'm not saying I "have issues" with it, just pointing out that fairly important fact.

 

It can't be evaluated the same as a fact-based article (those do still exist). I did find it interesting.

[snow_wizard]

Would you like Obama if you somehow realized that you guys both hate Grey Poupon mustard?

To me globalism is a pretty huge issue and the biggest threat this country faces. I also like his populist agenda.

[Jesse]

The premise of the article is a speculative work of fiction. I'm not saying I "have issues" with it, just pointing out that fairly important fact.

 

It can't be evaluated the same as a fact-based article (those do still exist).

Did you read the whole article or just skim it?

[Front Ranger]

Because he hates globalism and I hate globalism.

 

Sure. But I think you would agree that's not the only thing that should matter.

[TT-SEA]

Because he hates globalism and I hate globalism.

You live in the world Jim.

 

Old, angry white guys with xenophobic and extreme nationalistic views are dangerous to society. I see why you like him.

[Front Ranger]

Did you read the whole article or just skim it?

 

I read about 70% of it probably. Which is saying something.

 

Have you read that much of any of the much shorter articles I've posted? 

[Front Ranger]

You live in the world Jim.

 

Old, angry white guys with xenophobic and extreme nationalistic views are dangerous to society. I see why you like him.

 

Stereotyping is a positive step for society.

[Jesse]

I read about 70% of it probably. Which is saying something.

 

Have you read that much of any of the articles I've posted?

No, because I don't have a lot of respect for you.

[TT-SEA]

Stereotyping is a positive step for society.

Jim has expressed enough views here to fit that stereotype. It is what it is.

[Front Ranger]

No, because I don't have a lot of respect for you.

 

That's too bad. At least I read some of the articles you post.

 

And I'm able to disagree with people but still respect them.

[Front Ranger]

Jim has expressed enough views here to fit that stereotype. It is what it is.

 

Yes. Two wrongs do make a right.

[Tenochtitlan]

Here is a fun thing Mike Pence said in August, 2016:

 

"I want to live to see the day that we put the sanctity of life back at the center of American law, and we send Roe v. Wade to the ash heap of history, where it belongs."

[BLI snowman]

That is an unfortunate situation. I'm 75% sure it was a ploy by Dems to make Trump's administration look even more incompetent than it already may look. All of a sudden, three days after the order you let your "morals" get the better of you?

 

Next NYT headline: "Trump Says: "You're fired!" as Adminstration Crumbles."

 

Certainly Trump could have actually waited for Sessions to be approved as AG before he went full speed ahead on this EO. The whole thing was laughably rushed and it seemed like Yates' continued presence was one of several oversights. 

 

But there's no way that Yates could have expected to keep the job after the undermining. I guess she wanted to be a martyr. 

[TT-SEA]

Yes. Two wrongs do make a right.

Maybe not... but there is no reasoning with those views. I have given up trying.

 

Luckily they are mostly old men.

[Tenochtitlan]

Also Mike Pence has been a long-time supporter of *** conversion therapy, haha, so much fun

 

*I can't say that word here?

[BLI snowman]

Here is a fun thing Mike Pence said in August, 2016:

 

"I want to live to see the day that we put the sanctity of life back at the center of American law, and we send Roe v. Wade to the ash heap of history, where it belongs."

 

He's pretty transparently anti-abortion, so that viewpoint is hardly a big secret.

[Tenochtitlan]

He's pretty transparently anti-abortion, so that viewpoint is hardly a big secret.

I know. And I'm not, at all.

[BLI snowman]

I know. And I'm not, at all.

 

 

That's fine, but we're still a fairly divided nation on the issue in many regards and that's not going to change. As a moderate I don't really have a problem with having an openly anti-abortion VP. His viewpoints on some other social issues are more concerning, since they are further becoming relics. 

[Tenochtitlan]

That's fine, but we're still a fairly divided nation on the issue in many regards and that's not going to change. As a moderate I don't really have a problem with having an openly anti-abortion VP. His viewpoints on some other social issues are more concerning, since they are further becoming relics. 

Well, I'm not looking at it from the standpoint of whether or not he represents the anti-abortion component of the US, which is definitely a lot of people. I'm looking at it from the standpoint of what I value and believe in. Although I can understand your viewpoint as a moderate, too. 

[Front Ranger]

Well, I'm not looking at it from the standpoint of whether or not he represents the anti-abortion component of the US, which is definitely a lot of people. I'm looking at it from the standpoint of what I value and believe in. Although I can understand your viewpoint as a moderate, too.

Pretty much every conservative since the 1970s has been against Roe v. Wade. I think BLIsnowmans point is that you shared that quote like it was something shocking or abnormal.

 

Abortion is a more complicated moral issue for many people than many other social issues, so it's not surprising it continues to remain controversial, with many opponents.

[Tenochtitlan]

Pretty much every conservative since the 1970s has been against Roe v. Wade. I think BLIsnowmans point is that you shared that quote like it was something shocking or abnormal.

 

Abortion is a more complicated moral issue for many people than many other social issues, so it's not surprising it continues to remain controversial, with many opponents.

It's shocking to me, no matter how many conservatives have held the same belief. 

 

I think it's kind of shocking that that attitude is *not* abnormal in this country.

[BLI snowman]

It's shocking to me, no matter how many conservatives have held the same belief. 

 

I think it's kind of shocking that that attitude is *not* abnormal in this country.

 

Eh, his position on the issue isn't really all that fringe and as someone who myself is relatively ambivalent on the issue I can definitely respect his viewpoint even if I don't necessarily agree with it. His position on the issue isn't particularly relevant anyways, Roe vs. Wade won't be getting erased any time soon.

[Front Ranger]

It's shocking to me, no matter how many conservatives have held the same belief.

 

I think it's kind of shocking that that attitude is *not* abnormal in this country.

I guess I don't understand what's so shocking. People have different viewpoints and beliefs?

 

Without getting into the nitty gritty, no matter where you stand on abortion's legality, I think it's clear why it's morally complicated for many.

[Tenochtitlan]

It's just something I feel strongly about...I may have gotten a bit too carried away, I'm sorry.

[Jesse]

It's just something I feel strongly about...I may have gotten a bit too carried away, I'm sorry.

You really shouldn't have to apologize for this. This forum is very right-leaning (especially regarding those who have taken up the mantle of forum police/interrogator) so expect to get thoroughly raked over the coals for that sort of thing, while far more absurd assertions/beliefs from Trump supporters slide by unnoticed or quietly approved. You will get used to it eventually.

[Jesse]

I agree with SnoWiz and Bannon. The press are out of line and should be arrested. The press should only be free when it reports the truth!

I can't wait until they put a filter on our internet to block us from all the lies. That way we will only be exposed to the truth from the State/Breitbart (the line will gradually blur) and we will truly be free!!

[Jesse]

So did Sean Spicer really retweet an Onion article not realizing it is satirical?

 

That is pretty priceless.

[snow_wizard]

I agree with SnoWiz and Bannon. The press are out of line and should be arrested. The press should only be free when it reports the truth!

It would be nice if they made some effort to be honest. Their latest ploy is to have people talk about / visit the Statue of Liberty with tears in their eyes while lamenting...we will fight to keep the torch burning. Just shameless.

[snow_wizard]

It has been very entertaining listening to Rush Limbaugh lately. He's having a ball lampooning the off the rails leftists.

[TT-SEA]

It has been very entertaining listening to Rush Limbaugh lately. He's having a ball lampooning the off the rails leftists.

 

 

Limbaugh and Hannity are like cult followers... they are exactly as bad the other way as the extreme liberals you hate so much.

 

You are a hypocrite and part of the problem.

[snow_wizard]

Jim has expressed enough views here to fit that stereotype. It is what it is.

You come off as being so arrogant. You really have no idea why I have the views I do and what I'm really like overall. The problem with the anti Trump people is they automatically label Trump supporters as intolerant, ignorant, bigots. As long as this continues it will do nothing more than solidify the resolve of the pro Trump people to make sure he gets re-elected.

 

It's very insulting.

[TT-SEA]

You come off as being so arrogant. You really have no idea why I have the views I do and what I'm really like overall. The problem with the anti Trump people is they automatically label Trump supporters as intolerant, ignorant, bigots. As long as this continues it will do nothing more than solidify the resolve of the pro Trump people to make sure he gets re-elected.

 

It's very insulting.

 

I am not making any assumptions.   I am going off your exact statements on this forum.   If those were said in jest to rile us up... then its on you.

 

And anyone who spends their time following Hannity and Limbaugh cannot make any statements about the extreme liberal media on the other side.   Both are equally bad... and comical.

 

For the record... I know for a fact that not all Trump supporters are racist or intolerant.  I am not saying this because you are a Trump supporter. I am saying it because you have expressed extremely xenophobic and nationalistic views on here.    I could relate to you better if you could honestly criticize Trump and his administration and not come off sounding just as bad or worse than the liberals that you profess to hate.  

[Guest happ]

 

 

The Republican Fausts

 

 

 

 

David Brooks

JAN. 31, 2017

 

 

 

 

Many Republican members of Congress have made a Faustian bargain with Donald Trump. They don’t particularly admire him as a man, they don’t trust him as an administrator, they don’t agree with him on major issues, but they respect the grip he has on their voters, they hope he’ll sign their legislation and they certainly don’t want to be seen siding with the inflamed progressives or the hyperventilating media.

Their position was at least comprehensible: How many times in a lifetime does your party control all levers of power? When that happens you’re willing to tolerate a little Trumpian circus behavior in order to get things done.

But if the last 10 days have made anything clear, it’s this: The Republican Fausts are in an untenable position. The deal they’ve struck with the devil comes at too high a price. It really will cost them their soul.

In the first place, the Trump administration is not a Republican administration; it is an ethnic nationalist administration. Trump insulted both parties equally in his Inaugural Address. The Bannonites are utterly crushing the Republican regulars when it comes to actual policy making.

The administration has swung sharply antitrade. Trump’s economic instincts are corporatist, not free market. If Barack Obama tried to lead from behind, Trump’s foreign policy involves actively running away from global engagement. Outspoken critics of Paul Ryan are being given White House jobs, and at the same time, if Reince Priebus has a pulse it is not externally evident.

Second, even if Trump’s ideology were not noxious, his incompetence is a threat to all around him. To say that it is amateur hour at the White House is to slander amateurs. The recent executive orders were drafted and signed without any normal agency review or even semicoherent legal advice, filled with elemental errors that any nursery school student would have caught.

It seems that the Trump administration is less a government than a small clique of bloggers and tweeters who are incommunicado with the people who actually help them get things done. Things will get really hairy when the world’s problems are incoming.

Third, it’s becoming increasingly clear that the aroma of bigotry infuses the whole operation, and anybody who aligns too closely will end up sharing in the stench.

The administration could have simply tightened up the refugee review process and capped the refugee intake at 50,000, but instead went out of its way to insult Islam. The administration could have simply tightened up immigration procedures, but Trump went out of his way to pick a fight with all of Mexico.

Other Republicans have gone far out of their way to make sure the war on terrorism is not a war on Islam or on Arabs, but Trump has gone out of his way to ensure the opposite. The racial club is always there.

Fourth, it is hard to think of any administration in recent memory, on any level, whose identity is so tainted by cruelty. The Trump administration is often harsh and never kind. It is quick to inflict suffering on the 8-year-old Syrian girl who’s been bombed and strafed and lost her dad. Its deportation vows mean that in the years ahead, the TV screens will be filled with weeping families being pulled apart.

None of these traits will improve with time. As former Bush administration official Eliot Cohen wrote in The Atlantic, “Precisely because the problem is one of temperament and character, it will not get better. It will get worse, as power intoxicates Trump and those around him. It will probably end in calamity — substantial domestic protest and violence, a breakdown of international economic relationships, the collapse of major alliances, or perhaps one or more new wars (even with China) on top of the ones we already have. It will not be surprising in the slightest if his term ends not in four or in eight years, but sooner, with impeachment or removal under the 25th Amendment.”

The danger signs are there in profusion. Sooner or later, the Republican Fausts will face a binary choice. As they did under Nixon, Republican leaders will have to either oppose Trump and risk his tweets, or sidle along with him and live with his stain.

Trump exceeded expectations with his cabinet picks, but his first 10 days in office have made clear this is not a normal administration. It is a problem that demands a response. It is a callous, bumbling group that demands either personal loyalty or the ax.

Already one sees John McCain and Lindsey Graham forming a bit of a Republican opposition. The other honorable senators will have to choose: Collins, Alexander, Portman, Corker, Cotton, Sasse and so on and so on.

With most administrations you can agree sometimes and disagree other times. But this one is a danger to the party and the nation in its existential nature. And so sooner or later all will have to choose what side they are on, and live forever after with the choice.

 

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/31/opinion/the-republican-fausts.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region

[snow_wizard]

You have to love the brass balls the San Francisco City Council has. They are suing Trump for withholding funds from them because they are breaking Federal Law. Any judge would laugh that right out of court. Besides the problem I just mentioned there is also no provision in the Constitution about the Federal Government giving money to cities.

[snow_wizard]

Respectfully, it would be nice to see you contribute something substantial to this discussion. Your last few posts have been dripping with sarcasm and hyperbole.

Yeah...I can't figure out where he's coming from.

 

The last I checked nobody was talking about banning the media. I guess asking for honesty is too much.

[Guest happ]

You have to love the brass balls the San Francisco City Council has. They are suing Trump for withholding funds from them because they are breaking Federal Law. Any judge would laugh that right out of court. Besides the problem I just mentioned there is also no provision in the Constitution about the Federal Government giving money to cities.

 

David Brooks hosts the Wall Street Journal show on Fox News; is he also irrelevant?

[TT-SEA]

David Brooks hosts the Wall Street Journal show on Fox News; is he also irrelevant?

 

Trump and Bannon are kings and they can do no wrong.   Everything is going awesome as long as there is chaos and no unity.   The other side must be angry at all costs!   

 

Do not expect any realistic criticism of this wonderful administration from Jim.   

[snow_wizard]

David Brooks hosts the Wall Street Journal show on Fox News; is he also irrelevant?

Just saying these lawsuits are going nowhere.