2016 Fall Off Topic Thread AKA Football or Politics

[TT-SEA]

I agree that Bannon is definitely a dangerous person. And I can see that he is for the most part, doing what he said he would do. 

 

what do you think about the fact that the new head of the EPA doesn't believe in climate change, and that Trump has called climate change a "Chinese hoax"? it seems like some people here don't agree with the scientific consensus on climate change so it may not bother them?

 

Its a position subject to confirmation... will he be confirmed?

[TT-SEA]

Karl Rove on FOX ripping the Trump administration for the mess they are making... you can't make this stuff up.  

[Tenochtitlan]

Its a position subject to confirmation... will he be confirmed?

Oh good catch.

[BLI snowman]

Trump shitcanned the placeholder AG for her comments today. Probably deserved.

[TT-SEA]

There's reports coming out now that the two gunman were Syrian refugees who came in to Canada last week as refugees. There's a reason why there's no names being released and the Canadian police are pretty quiet on the motives etc 

 

This was fake news.   The shooter was a white college student.

 

http://nypost.com/2017/01/30/deadly-canada-mosque-shooting-condemned-as-terrorist-attack/

[Anti Marine Layer]

Seriously I don't understand how our country could be so stupid to nominate either Hillary or Trump. For California, primaries were in June, way past the time when the nominations had been decided. Our votes did not count for anything. They should have all the primaries on the same day.

 

Also, Obama and Hillary are partially to blame for Trump's general election win. Nobody wants socialism except for the disadvantaged. Obamacare was a disaster for most people while giving health care to some people who could not get it before.

[Tenochtitlan]

That is an unfortunate situation. I'm 75% sure it was a ploy by Dems to make Trump's administration look even more incompetent than it already may look. All of a sudden, three days after the order you let your "morals" get the better of you?

 

Next NYT headline: "Trump Says: "You're fired!" as Adminstration Crumbles."

It was a question of legality, not morality.

[Tenochtitlan]

Nobody wants socialism except for the disadvantaged.

Sorry, but that's not true.

[TT-SEA]

Seriously I don't understand how our country could be so stupid to nominate either Hillary or Trump. For California, primaries were in June, way past the time when the nominations had been decided. Our votes did not count for anything. They should have all the primaries on the same day.

 

 

 

I agree with this... state by state over months is unfair.     All at once would be fair to everyone.

[TT-SEA]

David Axelrod is a really interesting guy... very fair and informative.   He does not over-dramatize.  

 

He said the comparison of himself to Bannon in the NSC is not fair... he sat in on a specific set of meetings related to Pakistan and Afghanistan and never spoke.   He was an expert in those areas and Obama wanted him to be present.   Bannon will likely be dictating the meeting agendas.  Axelrod said he woke up this morning to discover he had become a Trump administration alternative fact.   

 

He also gave Trump credit for doing what he said would do and keeping pledges to the people who elected him... and offered advice to Trump to slow down and be more mindful of the process.   He said Trump is completely playing to his base and not making any effort to unite.   The risk is that he will lose public support and "shrink his base to its irreducible core".     

 

Chaos is welcomed by some of his supporters... but would they support chaos if it derails his administration?

[Phil]

I agree that Bannon is definitely a dangerous person. And I can see that he is for the most part, doing what he said he would do.

 

what do you think about the fact that the new head of the EPA doesn't believe in climate change, and that Trump has called climate change a "Chinese hoax"? it seems like some people here don't agree with the scientific consensus on climate change so it may not bother them?

The bolded is false. Also, while there is a consensus on the fact that increasing CO^2 will warm the planetary surface somewhat via radiative transfer, there is no consensus as to the degree of warming, nor the sign (+/-) of the systematic feedback(s) to said warming.

[Tenochtitlan]

The bolded is false. Also, while there is a consensus on the fact that increasing CO^2 will warm the planetary surface somewhat via radiative transfer, there is no consensus as to the degree of warming, nor the sign (+/-) of the systematic feedback(s) to said warming.

You're right, I didn't realize that. Reading more about him and the confirmation hearing of Scott Pruitt, however, he does come across as pretty nonchalant on the subject of climate change.

[Phil]

You're right, I didn't realize that. Reading more about him and the confirmation hearing of Scott Pruitt, however, he does come across as pretty nonchalant on the subject of climate change.

I guess I dislike the idea of throwing money down the toilet based on shoddy computer model depictions 30+ years into the future. These models have been struggling even 5-8 years out..so much can go wrong.

[Tenochtitlan]

I guess I'm just not a fan of throwing money down the toilet based on computer model depictions 30+ years into the future. So much can go wrong.

I wouldn't call investing in renewable energy "throwing money down the toilet." 

[Anti Marine Layer]

The scary thing is that this ban could make some people angry and cause ISIS to recruit people who are already in the United States. I've also heard there are some ISIS people on the Mexican border waiting to come in on orders, but I'm not sure if that's just more fake news. The mainstream media have also been overreacting to Trump ever since he became the Republican nominee. While Trump is to blame for the problems he's causing, the reaction of CNN and MSNBC definitely does not help to ease the tension. It is sort of like when there's a high fire danger here with Santa Ana Winds, the media will tell everyone about it over and over, when any reasonable person knows this is obvious. Hearing it repeated by the media may actually encourage the arsonists to get out and light fires.

[Phil]

I wouldn't call investing in renewable energy "throwing money down the toilet."

Oh, I'm all for renewable energy. Unfortunately we waste money on climate change via many additional avenues. Whether we approve or reject the Keystone pipeline, for example, will have absolutely zero effect on the climate. Funding overseas socioeconomic development under the guise of "climate change" is another example, I think.

[Phil]

Plus, if we're serious about reducing carbon emissions, the last thing we should be doing is shutting down nuclear power plants.

 

Where's the logic in that?

[Tenochtitlan]

Oh, I'm all for renewable energy. Unfortunately we waste money on climate change through many other avenues. Whether we approve or reject the Keystone pipeline, for example, will have absolutely zero effect on the climate. Funding overseas socioeconomic development under the guise of "climate change" is another example.

That's fair (although I'm not sure what you mean by the part about socioeconomic development), I'm all for money being spent in a way that will actually address climate change...but I have heard nothing from Trump about investing in renewable energy. And renewable energy's something we'll have to switch to eventually anyway after fossil fuel reserves run out.

[Tenochtitlan]

Plus, if we're serious about reducing carbon emissions, the last thing we should be doing is shutting down nuclear power plants.

 

Where's the logic in that?

I agree, the actual threat from nuclear power plants seems pretty low to me all in all, looking at a history of incidents...I'm pretty sure that coal mining has killed far more people than Fukushima and Chernobyl have.

[Jesse]

Very long, but interesting article.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/03/how-to-build-an-autocracy/513872/

[Phil]

That's fair (although I'm not sure what you mean by the part about socioeconomic development), I'm all for money being spent in a way that will actually address climate change...but I have heard nothing from Trump about investing in renewable energy. And renewable energy's something we'll have to switch to eventually anyway after fossil fuel reserves run out.

I agree. My question is, how do we maximize our innovation potential in the energy sector? Should we impose carbon taxes, shut down domestic production, raise energy prices, and risk slowing down the economic forces that spur innovation? Or should we do the opposite, and let economic growth fund this innovation more quickly?

[Tenochtitlan]

I agree. My question is, how do we maximize our innovation potential in the energy sector? Should we impose carbon taxes, shut down domestic production, raise energy prices, and risk slowing down the economic forces that spur innovation? Or should we do the opposite, and let economic growth fund this innovation more quickly?

I don't have an answer to those questions. All I can say is that there are relatively large countries like Spain that get a significantly larger percentage of their energy needs met from renewable sources. But I don't know what path is best to get there, only that it is definitely possible. 

[TT-SEA]

So, the comparison of Axelrod to Bannon is not fair but the assumption of the actions of a man you hardly know is fine?

 

Honestly between Trump appealing to nothing but his base and the Democrats appealing to nothing but their base, and the media pouring gasoline on everything, we could be headed in an... Interesting direction.

 

In my opinion, Trump has gotten his point across about sticking to his promises. I would just let everything simmer for a bit.

 

I think we know enough about Bannon based on his own words.    He is dangerous.    

[Tenochtitlan]

I think we know enough about Bannon based on his own words.    He is dangerous.    

Indeed.

 

"Are there anti-Semitic people involved in the alt-right? Absolutely. Are there racist people involved in the alt-right? Absolutely. But I don't believe that the movement overall is anti-Semitic." 

 

hahaha what a great upstanding guy he is

[TT-SEA]

I wasn't talking about dangerous. I was talking about him dictating the meetings. What makes you think he will dictate a meeting where there are people who know much more than he does?

 

He may be dangerous, in your opinion, but he ain't stupid.

 

I think he is the puppet master for much of the administration.  

[Front Ranger]

The scary thing is that this ban could make some people angry and cause ISIS to recruit people who are already in the United States. I've also heard there are some ISIS people on the Mexican border waiting to come in on orders, but I'm not sure if that's just more fake news. The mainstream media have also been overreacting to Trump ever since he became the Republican nominee. While Trump is to blame for the problems he's causing, the reaction of CNN and MSNBC definitely does not help to ease the tension. It is sort of like when there's a high fire danger here with Santa Ana Winds, the media will tell everyone about it over and over, when any reasonable person knows this is obvious. Hearing it repeated by the media may actually encourage the arsonists to get out and light fires.

 

The people that are angry enough to join terrorist organizations and commit acts of terror already have their own motivations that are completely independent of what this administration does or does not do.

[TT-SEA]

And what leads you to believe that?

 

Everything.   To ignore that is to just put the blinders on... sorry.

[Front Ranger]

Very long, but interesting article.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/03/how-to-build-an-autocracy/513872/

 

Interesting indeed.

 

An awful lot of speculation, though. The author's repeated assumptions about the Russian hacking role in the election, for example, require a rather large grain of salt.

[Front Ranger]

Indeed.

 

"Are there anti-Semitic people involved in the alt-right? Absolutely. Are there racist people involved in the alt-right? Absolutely. But I don't believe that the movement overall is anti-Semitic." 

 

hahaha what a great upstanding guy he is

 

 

The fact that he's willing to acknowledge those presences in the alt-right movement is actually encouraging to me. It's not an endorsement of those views, though of course you'd like to see him condemn them in the same sentence (what's the context of that statement?). But if he acted like such claims were "crazy" and didn't actually address reality, that would be more concerning to me.

 

That being said, there are definitely some red flags by association with Bannon, and I certainly don't trust him.

[snow_wizard]

That is an unfortunate situation. I'm 75% sure it was a ploy by Dems to make Trump's administration look even more incompetent than it already may look. All of a sudden, three days after the order you let your "morals" get the better of you?

 

Next NYT headline: "Trump Says: "You're fired!" as Adminstration Crumbles."

Nah....this was a leftover from Obama.

[snow_wizard]

The fact that he's willing to acknowledge those presences in the alt-right movement is actually encouraging to me. It's not an endorsement of those views, though of course you'd like to see him condemn them in the same sentence (what's the context of that statement?). But if he acted like such claims were "crazy" and didn't actually address reality, that would be more concerning to me.

 

That being said, there are definitely some red flags by association with Bannon, and I certainly don't trust him.

As far as the anti Semitic claims being made about the Trump administration...it was Obama who pulled the rug out from under Israel just before he left office. Trump actually reached out to Israel and said it will be fine when he's in office and Israel is pretty happy he got elected. Doesn't sound very anti Semitic to me.

[snow_wizard]

I think we know enough about Bannon based on his own words.    He is dangerous.

I think Bannon is pretty awesome myself.

[Tenochtitlan]

As far as the anti Semitic claims being made about the Trump administration...it was Obama who pulled the rug out from under Israel just before he left office. Trump actually reached out to Israel and said it will be fine when he's in office and Israel is pretty happy he got elected. Doesn't sound very anti Semitic to me.

Anti-semitism is not at all the same as being opposed to Israeli settlements in Palestine. They are different issues. A person can be not at all anti-semitic, but not condone those settlements at the same time; they amount to an invasion of Palestinian territory by Israel.

[TT-SEA]

I think Bannon is pretty awesome myself.

Of course you do. He is dangerous. Much like many of the viewpoints you have expressed on here.

[Front Ranger]

As far as the anti Semitic claims being made about the Trump administration...it was Obama who pulled the rug out from under Israel just before he left office. Trump actually reached out to Israel and said it will be fine when he's in office and Israel is pretty happy he got elected. Doesn't sound very anti Semitic to me.

 

Yeah, overall Trump's statements regarding Israel have been pretty inconvenient to the anti-Semitic narrative.

[Front Ranger]

I think Bannon is pretty awesome myself.

 

Why? Honest question.

[Jesse]

Interesting indeed.

 

An awful lot of speculation, though. The author's repeated assumptions about the Russian hacking role in the election, for example, require a rather large grain of salt.

Glad you were able to point out the things you have issues with.

 

I thought he made some good points about the potential long term fate of our democracy. Also about out of control protesting playing into Trump's hands.

[Tenochtitlan]

Yeah, overall Trump's statements regarding Israel have been pretty inconvenient to the anti-Semitic narrative.

Maybe for Trump, but Steve Bannon himself seems to be someone who is completely tolerant of the racism and anti-semitism that's part of the alt-right movement. And Bannon seems likely to play a large role in this administration.

 

But yeah, I think the racism is scarier than the anti-Semitism.

[snow_wizard]

Why? Honest question.

Because he hates globalism and I hate globalism.

[Front Ranger]

Of course you do. He is dangerous. Much like many of the viewpoints you have expressed on here.