Polite Politics

[Rubus Leucodermis]

5 hours ago, Iceresistance said:

Actions speak louder than words

“My mind’s made up, don’t confuse me with new facts!”

[snow_wizard]

7 hours ago, Iceresistance said:

Actions speak louder than words

Yup.

[snow_wizard]

2 hours ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

That's not how the saying is used.

Say what?  The things Trump did as President resulted in less migrants crossing the border.  Am I missing something?

If you're talking about him being against the new legislation they are trying to work out...the stuff they are coming up with is shiet.

[Minny_Weather]

Okay, come on, 150 democrats.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/6976

If we're going to turn a blind eye to illegal immigration (we shouldn't but we are), shouldn't we at least draw the line at them violating our laws?

[Andie]

My sister was killed by an illegal alien.   Lawyers swarmed in quickly and he was on his way to Mexico. No charges.
She was 22.  She had just received a full scholarship for her MS and PhD in Oceanography from Texas A&M.   
She had already publish a scientific paper before receiving her Bachelors.  
I and my parents lives were utterly changed. No avenues for justice.

Lawyers got him off and he was across the border within hours. We learned later he was a butcher by trade.
It took a wise old Judge to talk my late father out of tracking him down and killing him. Dad listened for my mother and for my benefit.  
The driver is deceased now.  In my faith, I believe he has had to face and pay his debt.   But my family was never the same. 
It impacted my education as my college savings were spent on her burial.  

The nation lost a fine oceanographer. 
If you think things will be fine you’re a fool.  Incidents like these will increase, also crime in general.  I grew up with this culture  My husband is half Hispanic yet very different from these immigrants.
These folks are a whole different slice of cake culturally.  
Columbia emptied it’s overflowing jails and kicked them out.  They won’t stay in Texas.  We’re far less tolerant and they’ll seek greener pastures.  They’ll be in all lower 48.  This is a major change for the US.  Hope you’re ready. A good deal of bad with the good   

 

 

[Andie]

On 2/2/2024 at 12:56 AM, snow_wizard said:

Sometimes my side just drives me nuts.  Some Trump supporters are actually flipping Greg Abbott sheit for not doing more to lock the border down.  Can't they give the man some credit for what he HAS done.  Sheesh!.

He has the legislature to maneuver through for funding.  They’re a bunch of old drinking buddies.
He might be able to use emergency powers and money. Don’t know.  

[Rubus Leucodermis]

20 minutes ago, Andie said:

My sister was killed by an illegal alien.   Lawyers swarmed in quickly and he was on his way to Mexico. No charges.
She was 22.  She had just received a full scholarship for her MS and PhD in Oceanography from Texas A&M.   
She had already publish a scientific paper before receiving her Bachelors.  
I and my parents lives were utterly changed. No avenues for justice.

Lawyers got him off and he was across the border within hours. We learned later he was a butcher by trade.
It took a wise old Judge to talk my late father out of tracking him down and killing him. Dad listened for my mother and for my benefit.  
The driver is deceased now.  In my faith, I believe he has had to face and pay his debt.   But my family was never the same. 
It impacted my education as my college savings were spent on her burial.  

The nation lost a fine oceanographer. 
If you think things will be fine you’re a fool.  Incidents like these will increase, also crime in general.  I grew up with this culture  My husband is half Hispanic yet very different from these immigrants.
These folks are a whole different slice of cake culturally.  
Columbia emptied it’s overflowing jails and kicked them out.  They won’t stay in Texas.  We’re far less tolerant and they’ll seek greener pastures.  They’ll be in all lower 48.  This is a major change for the US.  Hope you’re ready. A good deal of bad with the good  

Plus, they are brown.

Thankfully, there is nationalism to use as a pretext so we don't have to say the quiet part aloud.

[roadtonowhere08]

1 hour ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

Plus, they are brown.

Thankfully, there is nationalism to use as a pretext so we don't have to say the quiet part aloud.

I think if one looks at this issue with an objective lens, both of you have validity to your stances.

1. Dangerous criminals are inside our borders due to our intentionally lax immigration system.  Sorry for your loss, Andie.  That's horrible.

2. Far too many Americans do not want darker skinned people here because they are disgusting racist nationalists.

Both are facts.  Both need to be addressed in a manner that does not deal only in talking points and political selfishness that stokes the flames in the GOP and DNC bases.  Unfortunately that's all we are getting.

[SilverFallsAndrew]

4 hours ago, Andie said:

My sister was killed by an illegal alien.   Lawyers swarmed in quickly and he was on his way to Mexico. No charges.
She was 22.  She had just received a full scholarship for her MS and PhD in Oceanography from Texas A&M.   
She had already publish a scientific paper before receiving her Bachelors.  
I and my parents lives were utterly changed. No avenues for justice.

Lawyers got him off and he was across the border within hours. We learned later he was a butcher by trade.
It took a wise old Judge to talk my late father out of tracking him down and killing him. Dad listened for my mother and for my benefit.  
The driver is deceased now.  In my faith, I believe he has had to face and pay his debt.   But my family was never the same. 
It impacted my education as my college savings were spent on her burial.  

The nation lost a fine oceanographer. 
If you think things will be fine you’re a fool.  Incidents like these will increase, also crime in general.  I grew up with this culture  My husband is half Hispanic yet very different from these immigrants.
These folks are a whole different slice of cake culturally.  
Columbia emptied it’s overflowing jails and kicked them out.  They won’t stay in Texas.  We’re far less tolerant and they’ll seek greener pastures.  They’ll be in all lower 48.  This is a major change for the US.  Hope you’re ready. A good deal of bad with the good   

 

 

I’m so sorry. They are sending their worst. 

 

3 hours ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

Plus, they are brown.

Thankfully, there is nationalism to use as a pretext so we don't have to say the quiet part aloud.

Horrible comment. Beyond the pale. 

 

[SilverFallsAndrew]

24 years ago this week a good family friend was killed by an illegal drunk driver. At least they died too. 

[snow_wizard]

7 hours ago, Minny_Weather said:

Okay, come on, 150 democrats.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/6976

If we're going to turn a blind eye to illegal immigration (we shouldn't but we are), shouldn't we at least draw the line at them violating our laws?

It would literally take an illegal murdering their first born child for them to change their minds.  The news is full of tragedies where illegals that have not been handed over to ICE have gone on to commit serious crimes, including murder, rape, hit and run, etc.  Just a disgrace.

[snow_wizard]

4 minutes ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

24 years ago this week a good family friend was killed by an illegal drunk driver. At least they died too. 

That is so awful.  A lot has been done to stop drunk driving but still a long way to go. 

 

[snow_wizard]

4 hours ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

Plus, they are brown.

Thankfully, there is nationalism to use as a pretext so we don't have to say the quiet part aloud.

The left are always the ones that bring up color.  Conservatives just want us all to be the same, but your side will never let it happen.

[Rubus Leucodermis]

1 hour ago, snow_wizard said:

The left are always the ones that bring up color.  Conservatives just want us all to be the same, but your side will never let it happen.

Yes, yes: I know. I am as free to be as conservative and heterosexual as you are.

It's all my fault for choosing deviance.

[snow_wizard]

28 minutes ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

Yes, yes: I know. I am as free to be as conservative and heterosexual as you are.

It's all my fault for choosing deviance.

What does that have to do with color?  It's always your side that brings it up.  Always keeping the flames of hate going.

[SnarkyGoblin]

1 hour ago, snow_wizard said:

What does that have to do with color?  It's always your side that brings it up.  Always keeping the flames of hate going.

I suggest you reread some of Andrew's previous posts. That dude fu*king hates.

[Minny_Weather]

8 hours ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

Plus, they are brown.

Thankfully, there is nationalism to use as a pretext so we don't have to say the quiet part aloud.

This is up there with some of the most tasteless posts of all time on this board, along with:

• A poster invalidating a fellow poster's mental health anecdote because they are a man, and
• A poster calling gay people mentally screwed up in direct response to an openly gay poster

Congrats, you're in good company!

[Rubus Leucodermis]

33 minutes ago, Minny_Weather said:

This is up there with some of the most tasteless posts of all time on this board, along with:

• A poster invalidating a fellow poster's mental health anecdote because they are a man, and
• A poster calling gay people mentally screwed up in direct response to an openly gay poster

Congrats, you're in good company!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

[Rubus Leucodermis]

2 hours ago, snow_wizard said:

What does that have to do with color?  It's always your side that brings it up.  Always keeping the flames of hate going.

I found the remark about conservatives being in favour of equality to be profoundly dishonest, and was trying to show so by providing a counterexample.

Because equality is not what conservatism is about. Shall we review the Wikipedia definitions of left- and right-wing politics (i.e. the introductory paragraph of the articles on both) that I posted here some years ago? Nobody took issue with them at the time. (In fact, several on the right chimed in in agreement with the definition of right-wing politics.)

Left-wing politics describes the range of political ideologies that support and seek to achieve social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy as a whole or certain social hierarchies. Left-wing politics typically involve a concern for those in society whom its adherents perceive as disadvantaged relative to others as well as a belief that there are unjustified inequalities that need to be reduced or abolished through radical means that change the nature of the society they are implemented in. According to emeritus professor of economics Barry Clark, supporters of left-wing politics "claim that human development flourishes when individuals engage in cooperative, mutually respectful relations that can thrive only when excessive differences in status, power, and wealth are eliminated."

Right-wing politics is the range of political ideologies that view certain social orders and hierarchies as inevitable, natural, normal, or desirable, typically supporting this position based on natural law, economics, authority, property or tradition. Hierarchy and inequality may be seen as natural results of traditional social differences or competition in market economies.

Equality is the prime motivating concern of the Left. To attack affirmative action policies based on their being an affront to equality is to make a left-wing criticism of such policies, not a right-wing one. An example of the latter would be to say something like “The United States got along just fine without affirmative action. We won two world wars, became a superpower, and became a global economic power.”

[Minny_Weather]

9 minutes ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

I found the remark about conservatives being in favour of equality to be profoundly dishonest, and was trying to show so by providing a counterexample.

Because equality is not what conservatism is about. Shall we review the Wikipedia definitions of left- and right-wing politics (i.e. the introductory paragraph of the articles on both) that I posted here some years ago? Nobody took issue with them at the time. (In fact, several on the right chimed in in agreement with the definition of right-wing politics.)

Left-wing politics describes the range of political ideologies that support and seek to achieve social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy as a whole or certain social hierarchies. Left-wing politics typically involve a concern for those in society whom its adherents perceive as disadvantaged relative to others as well as a belief that there are unjustified inequalities that need to be reduced or abolished through radical means that change the nature of the society they are implemented in. According to emeritus professor of economics Barry Clark, supporters of left-wing politics "claim that human development flourishes when individuals engage in cooperative, mutually respectful relations that can thrive only when excessive differences in status, power, and wealth are eliminated."

Right-wing politics is the range of political ideologies that view certain social orders and hierarchies as inevitable, natural, normal, or desirable, typically supporting this position based on natural law, economics, authority, property or tradition. Hierarchy and inequality may be seen as natural results of traditional social differences or competition in market economies.

Equality is the prime motivating concern of the Left. To attack affirmative action policies based on their being an affront to equality is to make a left-wing criticism of such policies, not a right-wing one. An example of the latter would be to say something like “The United States got along just fine without affirmative action. We won two world wars, became a superpower, and became a global economic power.”

I'm glad you told conservatives how they feel for them!

[Rubus Leucodermis]

1 hour ago, Minny_Weather said:

I'm glad you told conservatives how they feel for them!

I wrote neither article. No conservative here objected to those definitions when I originally posted them. In fact, some chimed in to agree with the definition of right-wing politics.

I find those definitions to be both neutrally worded, and to do a good job of predicting the positions the left and the right take on various issues.

[SnarkyGoblin]

2 hours ago, Minny_Weather said:

I'm glad you told conservatives how they feel for them!

Oh cry me a river.  That's literally all MML does on here, except the opposite. 

Rubs just quoted a wikipedia article.

[snow_wizard]

My good news bit for the day is a tampon dispenser in a men's restroom was torn off the wall minutes after it was installed.  There is still sanity out there!

This moment of sanity was offset by imbeciles fighting for dead people to be able to change their gender.  You can't make this stuff up!

[Andie]

And just what will that deceased person do with their newly found gender? 
I think this sheit has reached critical mass. 

[Iceresistance]

21 hours ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

Plus, they are brown.

Thankfully, there is nationalism to use as a pretext so we don't have to say the quiet part aloud.

Skin color and gender are not an excuse for the horrid crimes they can commit.

Also not an excuse for incompetence! 

[SnarkyGoblin]

Lol.  Stupid moves wins you stupid prizes.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.opb.org/article/2024/02/01/oregon-supreme-court-rules-republican-lawmakers-walked-out-cant-seek-reelection/%3foutputType=amp

[Andie]

There have been walk outs in DC by both Parties.  
Oregon needs to realize it isn’t any one Party that uses this tactic be it State or Federal.  
Perhaps a mosh pit would be more effective (and entertaining). Certainly could raise money for the Party!

I’d pay to watch as long as there are 3-3 minute bouts like in karate.  

[SilverFallsAndrew]

16 hours ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

I suggest you reread some of Andrew's previous posts. That dude fu*king hates.

Who do I hate? 

[SilverFallsAndrew]

9 hours ago, snow_wizard said:

My good news bit for the day is a tampon dispenser in a men's restroom was torn off the wall minutes after it was installed.  There is still sanity out there!

This moment of sanity was offset by imbeciles fighting for dead people to be able to change their gender.  You can't make this stuff up!

They have to put them in boys bathrooms in Oregon too. Even in primary schools. When my son starts school I'll pay him $20 if he comes out of the bathroom with tampons stuffed in his nose. 

[SilverFallsAndrew]

41 minutes ago, Andie said:

There have been walk outs in DC by both Parties.  
Oregon needs to realize it isn’t any one Party that uses this tactic be it State or Federal.  
Perhaps a mosh pit would be more effective (and entertaining). Certainly could raise money for the Party!

I’d pay to watch as long as there are 3-3 minute bouts like in karate.  

I'm the only person from Oregon who posts regularly in here, so I'll comment on this. They should be disqualified. There as a ballot measure which clearly outlined the consequences and it passed convincingly. End of story. 

I don't disagree with the walkouts as a parliamentary tactic, but the people have spoken. Oregon's legislature is renowned for passing hideous and damaging legislation, but the districts are so gerrymandered, it's pretty easy for Democrats to get a super majority and ram bills through. They did lose several house seats in the 2022 mid-terms, but the senate was still stacked against the Republicans pretty hard, which is why they once again resorted to these tactics. 

Oregon being more rural than Washington, is actually a bit more conservative. Oregon's Republican party is extremely conservative though, and over the past 10-15 years they've completely lost the suburbs, as we've seen in other parts of the US. They are often within striking distance in statewide Gubernatorial elections, but can never quite get over the hump. I've seen studies of ideology which show Democrats in Oregon are among the furthest left of any state, but Republicans in Oregon are among the furthest right of any state. So there is just no middle ground.  

[snow_wizard]

12 hours ago, Andie said:

And just what will that deceased person do with their newly found gender? 
I think this sheit has reached critical mass. 

These people are just morons.  If they had something important to worry about the world would be a much better place.

[snow_wizard]

3 hours ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

I'm the only person from Oregon who posts regularly in here, so I'll comment on this. They should be disqualified. There as a ballot measure which clearly outlined the consequences and it passed convincingly. End of story. 

I don't disagree with the walkouts as a parliamentary tactic, but the people have spoken. Oregon's legislature is renowned for passing hideous and damaging legislation, but the districts are so gerrymandered, it's pretty easy for Democrats to get a super majority and ram bills through. They did lose several house seats in the 2022 mid-terms, but the senate was still stacked against the Republicans pretty hard, which is why they once again resorted to these tactics. 

Oregon being more rural than Washington, is actually a bit more conservative. Oregon's Republican party is extremely conservative though, and over the past 10-15 years they've completely lost the suburbs, as we've seen in other parts of the US. They are often within striking distance in statewide Gubernatorial elections, but can never quite get over the hump. I've seen studies of ideology which show Democrats in Oregon are among the furthest left of any state, but Republicans in Oregon are among the furthest right of any state. So there is just no middle ground.  

Bad.  Very much the same problem in WA.  A lot of people in Seattle are lunatics.  I was shocked they actually got the rabid imbeciles out of the City Counsel in the last election.  In Seattle your choice is either Democrat or demonrat.

[snow_wizard]

3 hours ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

They have to put them in boys bathrooms in Oregon too. Even in primary schools. When my son starts school I'll pay him $20 if he comes out of the bathroom with tampons stuffed in his nose. 

Just insane.  Tampons in men's rooms is bad enough, but boy's rooms?  OMG!

This is just as stupid as worrying about men who might have to have an abortion.  This is what these people lay awake at night thinking about. 

[SnarkyGoblin]

22 minutes ago, snow_wizard said:

Just insane.  Tampons in men's rooms is bad enough, but boy's rooms?  OMG!

This is just as stupid as worrying about men who might have to have an abortion.  This is what these people lay awake at night thinking about. 

From the sound of it, it's you who is thinking/caring about what's hung from a bathroom that is literally hurting no one except your manlihood.

[SnarkyGoblin]

The gop leadership cares more about politics than doing something about a legitimate problem and is talked about all the time in their circles.

Quote

President Biden’s assertion that he’s ready to sign a border deal — one that would make it much harder for migrants to enter the United States — is a necessary and long overdue step to restore the public’s confidence in the federal government’s ability to maintain control over immigration

The crush of asylum seekers crossing the southern border has overwhelmed the government’s capacity to deal justly with their claims. The needs of the migrants have strained the resources of cities and towns across the country; in the absence of federal help, these communities are finding it difficult to maintain humane conditions for everyone who crosses. This situation is untenable.

Democrats have been too slow to respond to the increasingly urgent pleas from mayors, governors and voters to act. Republicans deserve credit for pressing for action, and they ought to be celebrating that Mr. Biden has now accepted many of the strict border security measures that they have long pushed for. But Donald Trump, the front-runner for the Republican presidential nomination, insists that Republicans reject the legislation taking shape in the Senate. Several Senate Republicans have said Mr. Trump is blocking it to keep immigration alive as a campaign issue. Senator Todd Young of Indiana called this move to derail the negotiations “tragic.” Mr. Young and the other Senate Republicans nevertheless continue to work with their Democratic colleagues to hammer out a compromise.

House Republicans, however, don’t seem interested in writing laws; they have instead submitted to Mr. Trump’s demands. The House speaker, Mike Johnson, says any bill the Senate sends to the House will be “dead on arrival.” Instead of negotiating with Democrats, they are pressing ahead with a farcical effort to impeach Alejandro Mayorkas, the secretary of homeland security.

Another Political Failure on Immigration https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/02/opinion/border-deal-senate-biden.html?unlocked_article_code=1.S00.z9GB.CErtBnPff9kr&smid=nytcore-android-share

[Andie]

On 2/3/2024 at 11:12 AM, Rubus Leucodermis said:

Plus, they are brown.

Thankfully, there is nationalism to use as a pretext so we don't have to say the quiet part aloud.

His color was irrelevant.   
But get behind the wheel after drinking and we’re enemies.  There are few things I can’t forgive but drinking and driving is one.  Killing while drunk should be the same as premeditated murder. Same sentence. In Texas it’s death row.  

[Rubus Leucodermis]

44 minutes ago, Andie said:

His color was irrelevant.   
But get behind the wheel after drinking and we’re enemies.  There are few things I can’t forgive but drinking and driving is one.  Killing while drunk should be the same as premeditated murder. Same sentence. In Texas it’s death row.  

So it would have been OK if the drunk driver was a citizen or legal alien? Looks like the problem here really is drunk driving.

Don’t agree with the death penalty but do agree there shouldn’t be special rights for those who kill with motor vehicles (as there generally are). Murder should be murder.

Also think there should be more alternatives to driving a car to get around. It’s fundamentally fukked that bars have parking lots. Making people choose between social isolation and reckless driving helps make the latter more tempting.

[SnarkyGoblin]

5 hours ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

I'm the only person from Oregon who posts regularly in here, so I'll comment on this. They should be disqualified. There as a ballot measure which clearly outlined the consequences and it passed convincingly. End of story. 

I don't disagree with the walkouts as a parliamentary tactic, but the people have spoken. Oregon's legislature is renowned for passing hideous and damaging legislation, but the districts are so gerrymandered, it's pretty easy for Democrats to get a super majority and ram bills through. They did lose several house seats in the 2022 mid-terms, but the senate was still stacked against the Republicans pretty hard, which is why they once again resorted to these tactics. 

Oregon being more rural than Washington, is actually a bit more conservative. Oregon's Republican party is extremely conservative though, and over the past 10-15 years they've completely lost the suburbs, as we've seen in other parts of the US. They are often within striking distance in statewide Gubernatorial elections, but can never quite get over the hump. I've seen studies of ideology which show Democrats in Oregon are among the furthest left of any state, but Republicans in Oregon are among the furthest right of any state. So there is just no middle ground.  

I know nothing about OR politics but this has to be hyperbole.

[Andie]

https://dailycaller.com/2024/01/29/exclusive-terrorist-caught-illegally-crossing-border-allowed-roam-free-nearly-year-memo-says/

We may need to pay better attention to who is crossing into the country.  We used to have tighter enforcement.  It’s not perfect but how many have slipped in?  
I’m concerned about the price that will be exacted from just letting that border be wide open.  
It may be a good long time before we fully understand and whatever the price is it’s too late to stuff the cat back into the bag.  We can’t get it closed quickly enough.  
No doubt they’re hauling it out of Texas as Texans are paying attention. But then they could be living just down the highway.

 

[Andie]

21 minutes ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

So it would have been OK if the drunk driver was a citizen or legal alien? Looks like the problem here really is drunk driving.

Don’t agree with the death penalty but do agree there shouldn’t be special rights for those who kill with motor vehicles (as there generally are). Murder should be murder.

Also think there should be more alternatives to driving a car to get around. It’s fundamentally fukked that bars have parking lots. Making people choose between social isolation and reckless driving helps make the latter more tempting.

Drunk is drunk.  
The one that killed Jeannie happened to be Hispanic and a US citizen.  
Wouldn’t matter his color or place of origin.  Drunk on a highway kills.  
Who else on our forum has dealt with this tragedy?  I would like to offer them my profound sympathy.