2016 Fall Off Topic Thread AKA Football or Politics

[Deweydog]

Yes and why Trump should not take issue with sanctuary cities/ churches. Did Oregon declare itself a sanctuary state?

I don't follow your logic. At what point does offering sancturary become rendering criminal assistance?

 

It's a complicated issue and I think there is merit to the idea of sanctuaries, but the idea that dangerous criminals who happen to be illegals can find specifically friendlier confines in certain cities is pretty disconcerting for a lot of people.

 

Where I get hung up on the issue is a citizen of this country is not afforded sanctuary from specific laws and regulations based on indigency; be it from criminal prosecution down to civil responsibility if they happen to cause a fender bender and can't afford insurance. Illegals often have and benefit from the ability to hide in plain sight when it comes to these fairly mundane areas of civilized responsibility.

 

Like I said, it's complicated.

[TT-SEA]

Oh, now you don't want to deal in speculation? 

 

No... you said it was not good.   Also not good to publicly state that Trump is mentally ill since it feeds the fire.

 

Then when I try to follow your advice you mock me for that.  

[TT-SEA]

I work with people who aren't afraid to say what they think at all. When Obama pardoned all of those people right at the end of his term I mentioned it and one of my coworkers simply said..."all black?"

 

I must admit I was taken a bit by surprise, but it's just a sign of how jaded people are getting about the left.

 

Lots of latent racism that came to the surface because some people mistakenly believe Trump is a racist.   

[Guest happ]

Deweydog, on 17 Feb 2017 - 09:45 AM, said:Deweydog, on 17 Feb 2017 - 09:45 AM, said:

I don't follow your logic. At what point does offering sancturary become rendering criminal assistance?

 

It's a complicated issue and I think there is merit to the idea of sanctuaries, but the idea that dangerous criminals who happen to be illegals can find specifically friendlier confines in certain cities is pretty disconcerting for a lot of people.

 

Where I get hung up on the issue is a citizen of this country is not afforded sanctuary from specific laws and regulations based on indigency; be it from criminal prosecution down to civil responsibility if they happen to cause a fender bender and can't afford insurance. Illegals often have and benefit from the ability to hide in plain sight when it comes to these fairly mundane areas of civilized responsibility.

 

Like I said, it's complicated.

 

Agree. My point is optics. Obama priority was criminals first; don't make headlines.

[Phil]

There will be an investigation on Russian involvement. How does my 'calling for' it on a weather forum matter???

 

We will see what happens. Trump could very well not finish his term for a variety of reasons. But that is all speculation.

 

The next president will likely truly 'inherit a mess'.

I'm honestly hoping that the weight of the presidency changes Trump for the better. It changes everyone. While it might take some time, I honestly do think Trump will mellow out.

 

If you look back to the primaries and go from there, you can see he's already mellowed to some degree. Perhaps experiencing criticism and ridicule is Trump's karma. He's been the king of his own reality for as long as he's been alive. This is completely new to him, so there's going to at least be an adjustment period.

[Guest happ]

Phil, on 17 Feb 2017 - 09:56 AM, said:

I'm honestly hoping that the weight of the presidency changes Trump for the better. It changes everyone. While it might take some time, I honestly do think Trump will mellow out over time.

 

If you look back to the primaries and go from there, you can see he's already mellowed to some degree. Perhaps experiencing criticism and ridicule is Trump's karma. He's been the king of his own reality for as long as he's been alive. This is new to him.

 

Yes, if Trump can deliver more jobs and focuses entirely on that campaign promise we will all be better for it.  

[Guest happ]

The previous Republican president was W Bush. But as wrong as he was on Iraq it would have been much better for the nation had Jeb been elected.  

[Deweydog]

Agree. My point is optics. Obama priority was criminals first; don't make headlines.

Sounds like you're splitting hairs for the purpose of taking a position. Hard to believe all 400,000 of those were violent animals.

[TT-SEA]

Trump inherited a pretty good situation... he just needs to keep it moving forward:

 

http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/17/news/economy/donald-trump-economy/index.html

 

Headlines claim the White House is in "chaos" after an extremely turbulent week. But there's one big thing going right for Trump right now: The U.S. economy.

 

A slew of economic data came out this week. Almost all of it was positive. Americans are still going to stores and spending big (retail sales came in better than expected for January). They're also buying houses. And cars. And using their credit cards.

On top of that, small and medium-sized business owners are giddy. The NFIB Small Business Optimism Index is at its highest level since 2004.

Heck, even manufacturing has made a pretty big turnaround and looks almost healthy again. The Philly Fed Index, a survey on how well manufacturers are doing, just hit its highest level since 1984. And anyone with money in the market likely noticed the U.S. stock market set even more records this week. In fact, American stocks are on their best winning streak in 25 years.

There's still a belief on Wall Street -- and many parts of Main Street that CNNMoney has recently visited -- that Trump is going to get the economy surging again. Yes, there are some red flags -- household debt is back at 2008 levels and prices are rising. But overall, things look good.

"The economy is better than you think," says Chris Rupkey, chief financial economist at MUFG Union Bank in New York. "President Trump inherited the best economy since President Bush, so let's hope things continue to run smoothly."

[Deweydog]

Trump inherited a pretty good situation... he just needs to keep it moving forward:

 

http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/17/news/economy/donald-trump-economy/index.html

Headlines claim the White House is in "chaos" after an extremely turbulent week. But there's one big thing going right for Trump right now: The U.S. economy.

A slew of economic data came out this week. Almost all of it was positive. Americans are still going to stores and spending big (retail sales came in better than expected for January). They're also buying houses. And cars. And using their credit cards.

On top of that, small and medium-sized business owners are giddy. The NFIB Small Business Optimism Index is at its highest level since 2004.

Heck, even manufacturing has made a pretty big turnaround and looks almost healthy again. The Philly Fed Index, a survey on how well manufacturers are doing, just hit its highest level since 1984. And anyone with money in the market likely noticed the U.S. stock market set even more records this week. In fact, American stocks are on their best winning streak in 25 years.

There's still a belief on Wall Street -- and many parts of Main Street that CNNMoney has recently visited -- that Trump is going to get the economy surging again. Yes, there are some red flags -- household debt is back at 2008 levels and prices are rising. But overall, things look good.

"The economy is better than you think," says Chris Rupkey, chief financial economist at MUFG Union Bank in New York. "President Trump inherited the best economy since President Bush, so let's hope things continue to run smoothly."

TT-SEACNN.com

 

Seems kinda long.

[TT-SEA]

TT-SEACNN.com

 

Seems kinda long.

 

So stupid to just attack everything on CNN by default.

 

I could find the same information from a different source.

 

Here you go... 

 

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/a-look-at-the-economy-trump-inherited-which-he-calls-a-mess-2017-02-16

[epiceast]

While much could be said about Breitbart and it's readers, jumping to Nazi is a little far.

 

That word gets thrown around so easily nowadays. Completely normalizes it. That shouldn't be a word that gets normalized. Ever.

Yea as much as we want to make unequivocal statements about Trump administration I would save that word. Might make an exception for Bannon given his anti-semitism and just generally weird alt-right views.

 

Also speaking of him, did we discuss that Bannon invested Goldamn Sachs' money into a chinese World of Warcraft gold farming company (lol).

[TT-SEA]

Yea as much as we want to make unequivocal statements about Trump administration I would save that word. Might make an exception for Bannon given his anti-semitism and just generally weird alt-right views.

 

Also speaking of him, did we discuss that Bannon invested Goldamn Sachs' money into a chinese World of Warcraft gold farming company (lol).

 

I am not saying Trump is a Nazi.   I was making a comment about the people frequenting Breitbart as their main source of news.

[Deweydog]

So stupid to just attack everything on CNN by default.

 

I could find the same information from a different source.

 

Here you go...

 

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/a-look-at-the-economy-trump-inherited-which-he-calls-a-mess-2017-02-16

It's just funny. Your talking points almost always coincide with whatever is currently a main course at cnn.com.

[TT-SEA]

1. Obama's economy had a record number of quarters where growth was 2% or lower

2. Obama's GDP average was around 2%; average for past Presidents is 4.3%

3. Labor participation rate was 62.7 percent, meaning 94.7 million Americans were not in the workforce

4. Capital investment during Obama's administration was "historically weak" when compared to investment during past Presidencies

5. Home ownership rate is at a 47-year low

6. Average household income fell from $57,000 to $53,700

7. Amount of people on food stamps increased from 26.5 million in '07 to 44.5 million in 2016

 

If that's not enough, here is an easy image to get you an idea of how good that "pretty good situation" you describe actually was. It's easy to find 'positive' facts when you want the story to be nothing but 'positive' things.

 

 

 

Looks like a Republican chart.  

 

We will see if those are things Trump can turn around.   

[TT-SEA]

It's just funny. Your talking points almost always coincide with whatever is currently a main course at cnn.com.

 

Not so much lately.   Used to be that way for sure.   

 

I cited a few FOX news stories recently.  

[Tenochtitlan]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-coal-rivers-regulation-scrapped-law-a7584916.html

 

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/861/text

[Jesse]

It's just funny. Your talking points almost always coincide with whatever is currently a main course at cnn.com.

Jim's talking points and the front page of Breitbart.com are pretty 1:1 right now too.

 

People don't seem to think that is as funny, though.

[Deweydog]

Jim's talking points and the front page of Breitbart.com are pretty 1:1 right now too.

 

People don't seem to think that is as funny, though.

That's more sad and stupid, but Jim generally gets a wide berth here thanks to years of being coddled on the weather side.

 

Feel free to rip him a new one if you must.

[TT-SEA]

Who cares if it's a Republican chart? If it was a Democrat chart, would it be worth more to you?

 

Now you are saying Trump needs to turn it around. I thought you just said he needs to "keep it moving forward"? You switch stances more than you claim Trump does.

 

Turn around those parameters.   

 

I sure wish you challenged Jim this much.   Needs to be someone other than me.  

[TT-SEA]

Which those parameters are much more abundant than the parameters you cited earlier, hence the "mess" Trump was referring to.

 

I know you and Jesse's knee-jerk reaction whenever confronted is, "Why don't you do this to Jim? Why does Jim get a pass?" but try and stay focused on the topic at hand. It's hard to do when you are wrong, but try.

 

As far as Jim, while he has questionable viewpoints and generalizes majorities based off minorities, he rarely states something that is completely inaccurate. It's usually along the lines of, "Can you believe this liberal!" or "How idiotic is this protest!" or "The media is incredibly one-sided!"

 

It's much easier to challenge someone who treats speculation as fact then someone who mainly shares opinions on topics.

 

Blah... blah... blah.

 

I have listened and changed and I am open to dialogue.   

 

Jim just 'rants and raves' and never addresses any responses and refuses to even attempt to recognize how incredibly one-sided and extreme his view are... its stupid.     But hey... you are aligned politically so its no big deal.     Whatever.   

[TT-SEA]

"Jim is this... Jim is that..."

 

Blah... blah... blah.

Yep.

[Tenochtitlan]

http://www.independe...w-a7584916.html

 

https://www.congress...e-bill/861/text

 

I don't know if people saw this, does this not worry any of you? A lot of Republicans don't want there to be an EPA, and Scott Pruitt, who's just been confirmed as new EPA head, has fought against the EPA for much of his career. Bad things happen when you put big business-people in charge of public institutions whose job is to curb the negative impacts of big business.

[Phil]

http://www.independe...w-a7584916.html

https://www.congress...e-bill/861/text

I don't know if people saw this, does this not worry any of you? A lot of Republicans don't want there to be an EPA, and Scott Pruitt, who's just been confirmed as new EPA head, has fought against the EPA for much of his career. Bad things happen when you put big business-people in charge of public institutions whose job is to curb the negative impacts of big business.

The EPA is designed to curb negative environmental impacts period, regardless of their source. Big business is just one of many sources of pollution and/or various health hazards.

[snow_wizard]

What a Failed Trump Administration Looks Like  https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/17/opinion/what-a-failed-trump-administration-looks-like.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region

You seriously need to listen to Rush to balance out your brain. Your head would probably explode when he unravels every misconception you have. He gets calls all the time from ex liberals who have been amazed by his ability to change their minds.

[Front Ranger]

Which those parameters are much more abundant than the parameters you cited earlier, hence the "mess" Trump was referring to.

 

I know you and Jesse's knee-jerk reaction whenever confronted is, "Why don't you do this to Jim? Why does Jim get a pass?" but try and stay focused on the topic at hand. It's hard to do when you are wrong, but try.

 

As far as Jim, while he has questionable viewpoints and generalizes majorities based off minorities, he rarely states something that is completely inaccurate. It's usually along the lines of, "Can you believe this liberal!" or "How idiotic is this protest!" or "The media is incredibly one-sided!"

 

It's much easier to challenge someone who treats speculation as fact then someone who mainly shares opinions on topics.

 

Bingo. 

[Front Ranger]

Blah... blah... blah.

 

I have listened and changed and I am open to dialogue.   

 

Jim just 'rants and raves' and never addresses any responses and refuses to even attempt to recognize how incredibly one-sided and extreme his view are... its stupid.     But hey... you are aligned politically so its no big deal.     Whatever.   

 

And you and others don't understand why we don't ask him as many questions?

[TT-SEA]

And you and others don't understand why we don't ask him as many questions?

True. He is the worst example of everything he is ranting against.

[TT-SEA]

You seriously need to listen to Rush to balance out your brain. Your head would probably explode when he unravels every misconception you have. He gets calls all the time from ex liberals who have been amazed by his ability to change their minds.

You should try the same thing. I actually find it more interesting to listen to people that I might not agree with... its good for everyone to do it. You are a perfect example of the hatred and angry divide in this country.

[Front Ranger]

You should try the same thing. I actually find it more interesting to listen to people that I might not agree with... its good for everyone to do it. You are a perfect example of the hatred and angry divide in this country.

 

See, this just isn't necessary. 

 

SW and happ are good examples of one-sided viewpoints on opposite sides of the spectrum. But calling Jim hateful and angry doesn't help anything.

[Tenochtitlan]

The EPA is designed to curb negative environmental impacts period, regardless of their source. Big business is just one of many sources of pollution and/or various health hazards.

And someone is now in charge of it who's the opposite of an environmentalist. 

[snow_wizard]

And someone is now in charge of it who's the opposite of an environmentalist.

It's possible he simply thinks the EPA was a bit over the top. It's not like he's going to go in there and take us back to the 1970s.

[Tenochtitlan]

It's possible he simply thinks the EPA was a bit over the top. It's not like he's going to go in there and take us back to the 1970s.

Well, there are a lot of people in Congress who want to take environmental protections back to the 1970's. Scott Pruitt has done nothing to help protect the environment, but he has sued the EPA multiple times when he was a politician in Oklahoma. 

 

You've put too much of your faith and trust in this administration. As a result, you're too optimistic about its members' intentions. 

[Phil]

Well, there are a lot of people in Congress who want to take environmental protections back to the 1970's. Scott Pruitt has done nothing to help protect the environment, but he has sued the EPA multiple times when he was a politician in Oklahoma.

 

You've put too much of your faith and trust in this administration. As a result, you're too optimistic about its members' intentions.

Let's see what he does first. Then we can draw conclusions.

[Tenochtitlan]

Let's see what he does first. Then we can draw conclusions.

Haha, we don't have any other options but to wait. It's frustrating though, because he's a terrible candidate for the position.

[Phil]

Haha, we don't have any other options but to wait. It's frustrating though, because he's a terrible candidate for the position.

You don't know what you don't know, until you know it.

[TT-SEA]

See, this just isn't necessary.

 

SW and happ are good examples of one-sided viewpoints on opposite sides of the spectrum. But calling Jim hateful and angry doesn't help anything.

He is a perfect example of the type of person that fuels the hateful divide we have right now.

[Jesse]

He is a perfect example of the type of person that fuels the hateful divide we have right now.

 

You are somehow worse for routinely calling him out on it. 

[TT-SEA]

You are somehow worse for routinely calling him out on it.

 

You have been close to the opposite of Jim in this thread. Given your strong left leanings... you have been more open to discussion and analysis. Way more so than me. And I am closer to the middle politically.

 

There is a large segment of the country who just finds Trump so distasteful.

 

You could put another person in there with the same basic agenda and I would not be so opposed to the administration. Trump is just so offensive on every level.

[Guest happ]

President Trump, White House Apprentice

By THE EDITORIAL BOARD

 

FEB. 17, 2017

 

"When Mr. Trump’s assistants can keep the edge of panic out of their voices, they insist that Mr. Trump has gotten more done in the early going than most presidents. And Mr. Trump is so adept at creating smoke that Americans might be forgiven for thinking that’s true. But at this point in the Obama presidency, which did inherit a mess, Congress had passed laws aimed at dragging the economy back from the brink of depression while committing $800 billion in Recovery Act spending to projects ranging from housing to roads to advanced energy technologies."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/17/opinion/i-alone-can-fix-it-president-trump-white-house-apprentice.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region