Middle East Conflict of 2023-2024

[SnarkyGoblin]

4 hours ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

 

"The world is slowly getting sick of THEM." 

Hmmm.... You are obsessed with hate. 

The irony.

[SilverFallsAndrew]

2 hours ago, roadtonowhere08 said:

Nice Op-Ed about the Iranian influence in the Middle East. 

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/14/opinions/iran-strikes-israel-what-it-wants-bergen/index.html

I also like the mention about the Nuclear Deal.  Trump screwed the pooch big time by listening to the idiots who wanted out.  Now Iran is closer to a nuke.  Oops! 

Sometimes successful policy may make you weak by the hardliners, but in reality you come out ahead.  That's called "soft power".  The dopes in the GOP and Israel might want to learn that.

Peace ain't as sexy as blowing sh*t up.  Poor John Bolton would have nothing to talk about.

Trump brought us peace. Now the forever wars are back. 

[Iceresistance]

20 hours ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

He sends $8/mo to Elon for a blue check mark! That means he MUST be 100% reliable! Fact!

He isn't on Twitter

[Andie]

On 4/14/2024 at 5:34 PM, roadtonowhere08 said:

Can't back off when egos, money, land, and holy books are on the line. 

And then the Christians just want all of them to die so they can take the Stairway To Heaven.

Where's an asteroid when you need one?

Oh it’s mutual on both sides really.  Sometimes I think they forget why they’re fighting.   They just fight.  
If they’d  put all that energy into industry it would be an amazing place.  

[hawkstwelve]

Pro-Palestinian protestors blocked access today to O'Hare and SeaTac airports along with the Golden Gate and Brooklyn Bridges as well as I-5 in Eugene, OR.

I can't think of a faster way to get otherwise neutrally-stanced people to immediately hate whatever cause you are supposedly championing than to pull that type of shit. What do these protestors even think? Stopping people from going about their day (let alone taking a flight to see a dying loved one or something) is going to solve a conflict that's been going on for centuries? Suddenly Netanyahu is going to say, "Gee, these people in Illinois seem really angry so I guess I should stop the bombing." I mean, really? What's the end goal here besides pissing off your community?

Just complete and total morons. Go back to your basements. Or better yet, go find a job so you are doing something more productive with your Monday. Idiots.

[roadtonowhere08]

59 minutes ago, hawkstwelve said:

Pro-Palestinian protestors blocked access today to O'Hare and SeaTac airports along with the Golden Gate and Brooklyn Bridges as well as I-5 in Eugene, OR.

I can't think of a faster way to get otherwise neutrally-stanced people to immediately hate whatever cause you are supposedly championing than to pull that type of . What do these protestors even think? Stopping people from going about their day (let alone taking a flight to see a dying loved one or something) is going to solve a conflict that's been going on for centuries? Suddenly Netanyahu is going to say, "Gee, these people in Illinois seem really angry so I guess I should stop the bombing." I mean, really? What's the end goal here besides pissing off your community?

Just complete and total morons. Go back to your basements. Or better yet, go find a job so you are doing something more productive with your Monday. Idiots.

I couldn't agree more.  These morons are speedbumps.

[Chewbacca Defense]

2 hours ago, hawkstwelve said:

Pro-Palestinian protestors blocked access today to O'Hare and SeaTac airports along with the Golden Gate and Brooklyn Bridges as well as I-5 in Eugene, OR.

I can't think of a faster way to get otherwise neutrally-stanced people to immediately hate whatever cause you are supposedly championing than to pull that type of . What do these protestors even think? Stopping people from going about their day (let alone taking a flight to see a dying loved one or something) is going to solve a conflict that's been going on for centuries? Suddenly Netanyahu is going to say, "Gee, these people in Illinois seem really angry so I guess I should stop the bombing." I mean, really? What's the end goal here besides pissing off your community?

Just complete and total morons. Go back to your basements. Or better yet, go find a job so you are doing something more productive with your Monday. Idiots.

Both my kids have strong political voices, and my wife and I have both told them we think protests are stupid (we used softer wording), but we also did mot mince words that if they engaged in protests that in any way interfered with average citizens being able to go about their lives that there would be absolute hell to pay.  And we used the very point I highlighted in your comment to back our point.

 

We had some whack-a-do professor from WWU got a bunch a people to chain themselves across the freeway here In Bellingham over a proposed pipeline in the Dakotas.  It ended up causing a 5 car injury accident. 

A doctor my wife worked with got caught up in the traffic jam,  along with a vanload of elderly folks who were in pretty poor health.  The doctor was near them went over to keep an eye on them.  A few of them ended up soiling themselves.  Dignity is already pretty hard to come by at that stage of life, nothing like a bunch of selfish twatwaffles to add insult to injury.  I think the doctor was on his way to a funeral for close relative (aunt or uncle), and missed most of the service.

We used this situation as a clear "this is what we are talking about" follow up discussion with our kids

[Iceresistance]

Had to update this to include 2024, I didn't realize that until now

[Iceresistance]

And this might make China be viewed as "Anti-Israel"

China is refusing to condemn Iran's strike on Israel — and it's part of a Middle East power play (msn.com)

[Chewbacca Defense]

4 hours ago, Iceresistance said:

And this might make China be viewed as "Anti-Israel"

China is refusing to condemn Iran's strike on Israel — and it's part of a Middle East power play (msn.com)

I have not read all the pages, so apologies if this has already been covered, but I would venture to guess that Russia and China are behind the scenes playing puppet master feeding resources to the Houthis, Hamas and now Iran. 

Russia can't really afford to be sending resources to these causes, but at the same time, they can't afford to NOT send resources given our current state of political unrest (never thought I would be making that statement).

China is in a little bit better position, and I would venture to guess this is at least in part to respond to the Western Pacific Alliance currently in the works.

[Andie]

There is a huge alliance between Iran, China, and Russia.  No news there. 

If we spoke in terms of WW2 I'd say they are the new Axis power.  They're going to share, weapons, resources, and somewhat friendly relations largely because they hate the West so much.  True, Russia can't afford to be very generous, but political support says a lot in this environment. 

China is no doubt the big money in that bunch and it makes me all the more suspicious as to why we have so many Chinese men entering the US over the Southern border.  The big question is how did they manage to leave China? 

Do you have any idea how hard it is to leave as a citizen? Where'd the money and permission come from?

[Rubus Leucodermis]

18 hours ago, Andie said:

There is a huge alliance between Iran, China, and Russia.  No news there. 

If we spoke in terms of WW2 I'd say they are the new Axis power.  They're going to share, weapons, resources, and somewhat friendly relations largely because they hate the West so much.  True, Russia can't afford to be very generous, but political support says a lot in this environment. 

China is no doubt the big money in that bunch and it makes me all the more suspicious as to why we have so many Chinese men entering the US over the Southern border.  The big question is how did they manage to leave China? 

Do you have any idea how hard it is to leave as a citizen? Where'd the money and permission come from?

I am sure that China, being a highly authoritarian state, does not respect its citizens’ freedom of travel. But I am not sure it is super-duper hard for a Chinese to leave China (just that there are more restrictions on doing so than in a free country). Go to a world-famous national park like Yellowstone and you will see plenty of Chinese tourists.

[Chewbacca Defense]

4 hours ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

I am sure that China, being a highly authoritarian state, does not respect its citizens’ freedom of travel. But I am not sure it is super-duper hard for a Chinese to leave China (just that there are more restrictions on doing so than in a free country). Go to a world-famous national park like Yellowstone and you will see plenty of Chinese tourists.

Not to mention I think there might be one or 2 up who have relocated to places like Vancouver BC, Seattle, San Fran, LA and other major cities.  Lets also not forget Lethal Weapon 4!

[roadtonowhere08]

Foreign policy be like:

[roadtonowhere08]

So Iran's Foreign Minister Hossein Amir-Abdollahian recently warned that his country's response to any retaliation by Israel would be “immediate and at a maximum level".

 

So I guess?

 

 

I guess the image I posted earlier today was pretty D**n timely, eh?

[Iceresistance]

11 hours ago, roadtonowhere08 said:

Foreign policy be like:

Why is that accurate?

[Iceresistance]

8 hours ago, roadtonowhere08 said:

So Iran's Foreign Minister Hossein Amir-Abdollahian recently warned that his country's response to any retaliation by Israel would be “immediate and at a maximum level".

 

So I guess?

 

 

I guess the image I posted earlier today was pretty D**n timely, eh?

Israel did not want Iran to get away with it

[Andie]

 

 

Neither will be content until their Capitol city is dust.  They can’t see any benefit to living in peace or building a constructive society based on peaceful cooperation.  

[roadtonowhere08]

Wow, pretty good gaslighting and hysteria from none other than Mr. Gaslight himself, Jonathan A. Greenblatt.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/23/opinions/columbia-university-protests-greenblatt/index.html

Yes, of course the protestors are furious.  They are protesting an ongoing genocide that their government is bankrolling!

Following the typical playbook by making all Jewish students fearful of their lives even though only a small fraction of the protestors are preaching violence and hateful comments.  Perhaps we should do a study to see who has more to fear:  These students or the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank.  He was moved by a sobbing woman?  Try piecing together the body parts of a dismembered Palestinian woman or child killed from an Israeli airstrike.  Cry me a river!

My favorite: Donors should divest from institutions to get attention.  That's hilarious!  Perhaps we should ask him his thoughts on the BDS movement then.  Bet he would not have the same opinion.

Don't people like this idiot understand that the curtain has been lifted now?  The youth have more news access and media sources than ever before.  They have choices now in what and who to believe.  Why do you think Israel wants to cut Al Jazeera?  Cracking down on legitimate protests only makes the discontent and anger grow.  Those 30,000+ dead Palestinians are not going to be forgotten no matter how hard Israel and its apologists try.

[Anti Marine Layer]

25 minutes ago, roadtonowhere08 said:

Wow, pretty good gaslighting and hysteria from none other than Mr. Gaslight himself, Jonathan A. Greenblatt.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/23/opinions/columbia-university-protests-greenblatt/index.html

Yes, of course the protestors are furious.  They are protesting an ongoing genocide that their government is bankrolling!

Following the typical playbook by making all Jewish students fearful of their lives even though only a small fraction of the protestors are preaching violence and hateful comments.  Perhaps we should do a study to see who has more to fear:  These students or the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank.  He was moved by a sobbing woman?  Try piecing together the body parts of a dismembered Palestinian woman or child killed from an Israeli airstrike.  Cry me a river!

My favorite: Donors should divest from institutions to get attention.  That's hilarious!  Perhaps we should ask him his thoughts on the BDS movement then.  Bet he would not have the same opinion.

Don't people like this idiot understand that the curtain has been lifted now?  The youth have more news access and media sources than ever before.  They have choices now in what and who to believe.  Why do you think Israel wants to cut Al Jazeera?  Cracking down on legitimate protests only makes the discontent and anger grow.  Those 30,000+ dead Palestinians are not going to be forgotten no matter how hard Israel and its apologists try.

Be careful who you're rooting for. It was once promised to Israel "I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you". 

Hamas has had a dream to wipe out the entire Jewish population for years and they've been using Mein Kampf as their guidebook. It's the Israel vs. Hamas war, not the Israel vs. Palestine war. Hamas oppresses the Palestinians, yet a large number of them still support Hamas. Rooting for Hamas to win is just plain stupid and anyone on Hamas or supporting Hamas deserves to die. The innocent Palestinian civilians (those who don't support Hamas) have had plenty of chances to evacuate.

Take a picture of yourself once you join the next college campus protest.

 

 

[roadtonowhere08]

34 minutes ago, Anti Marine Layer said:

Be careful who you're rooting for. It was once promised to Israel "I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you". 

Hamas has had a dream to wipe out the entire Jewish population for years and they've been using Mein Kampf as their guidebook. It's the Israel vs. Hamas war, not the Israel vs. Palestine war. Hamas oppresses the Palestinians, yet a large number of them still support Hamas. Rooting for Hamas to win is just plain stupid and anyone on Hamas or supporting Hamas deserves to die. The innocent Palestinian civilians (those who don't support Hamas) have had plenty of chances to evacuate.

Take a picture of yourself once you join the next college campus protest.

 

 

Please find me any text where I show even shred of support for Hamas.

I would have thought that I have made it crystal clear my positions on these past 19 pages.  I will leave it up to you to interpret what I write however you like, as you do anyway.

And where exactly would the Palestinians evacuate to?  Egypt?  Jordan?  Lebanon?  Syria?  The U.S.?  Israel?  Nobody wants them for the same reasons why nobody really wants any refugees:  They are a strain on the adoptive country.  The surrounding countries already have a lot of Palestinian refugees.  You probably also forgot about that blockade and barbed wire wall as well, huh?  It's pretty heavily protected... except, for some reason, on Oct. 7th.  Their total poverty and lack of travel options due to both Israel's blockade and Hamas' actions kinda makes them trapped in their own land.

And quite frankly, why the f*ck should they evacuate?  It's their land.  Try telling a Texan to get off their own land.  Remember Waco?  We're not a country that likes to take orders from outsiders.

You overlooked a lot, my guy.

Let's not delude ourselves that somehow we are any different than the Palestinians living in Gaza or The West Bank.  If we were in their shoes, many Americans would act exactly the same with the same anger and alignment with extremists or worse.  Enemy of our enemy and all that.

We live in absolute luxury compared to the Palestinians!  That does not stop us from having idiots bombing abortion clinics due to their stupid beliefs.  We have gang wars.  We have white supremacists scattered across the country.  Hell, we have mass shootings all the time!  What's our excuse?  No country backed by a world superpower is stealing our land, imprisoning/blockading us, and calling us the aggressors at the same time.

Our sheer luck of not having to live their lives allows us to pretend that we are different.  We're not.

Take a look in the mirror and thank your God that you do not have to live like someone in Gaza while some doofus called Mr. Marine Layer judges you.  Christianity preaches gratitude and empathy, right?

[Anti Marine Layer]

On 4/24/2024 at 10:58 PM, roadtonowhere08 said:

Please find me any text where I show even shred of support for Hamas.

I would have thought that I have made it crystal clear my positions on these past 19 pages.  I will leave it up to you to interpret what I write however you like, as you do anyway.

And where exactly would the Palestinians evacuate to?  Egypt?  Jordan?  Lebanon?  Syria?  The U.S.?  Israel?  Nobody wants them for the same reasons why nobody really wants any refugees:  They are a strain on the adoptive country.  The surrounding countries already have a lot of Palestinian refugees.  You probably also forgot about that blockade and barbed wire wall as well, huh?  It's pretty heavily protected... except, for some reason, on Oct. 7th.  Their total poverty and lack of travel options due to both Israel's blockade and Hamas' actions kinda makes them trapped in their own land.

And quite frankly, why the f*ck should they evacuate?  It's their land.  Try telling a Texan to get off their own land.  Remember Waco?  We're not a country that likes to take orders from outsiders.

You overlooked a lot, my guy.

Let's not delude ourselves that somehow we are any different than the Palestinians living in Gaza or The West Bank.  If we were in their shoes, many Americans would act exactly the same with the same anger and alignment with extremists or worse.  Enemy of our enemy and all that.

We live in absolute luxury compared to the Palestinians!  That does not stop us from having idiots bombing abortion clinics due to their stupid beliefs.  We have gang wars.  We have white supremacists scattered across the country.  Hell, we have mass shootings all the time!  What's our excuse?  No country backed by a world superpower is stealing our land, imprisoning/blockading us, and calling us the aggressors at the same time.

Our sheer luck of not having to live their lives allows us to pretend that we are different.  We're not.

Take a look in the mirror and thank your God that you do not have to live like someone in Gaza while some doofus called Mr. Marine Layer judges you.  Christianity preaches gratitude and empathy, right?

It would suck to live in Gaza, but the land was originally occupied by Canaanites who sacrificed their children to idols and did other horrible things. Then the Jews got it and wiped out a majority of the Canaanites, which technically made the Jews the indigenous people, since there were so few Canaanites left. Then the Assyrians and Babylonians took over the land many years later. The Jews won it back and even built a wall around Jerusalem (how racist, but that's what most ancient civilizations did to protect themselves.)

In AD 70, the Romans took over the land and named it Palestine for the first time. Other people got it later in other wars, mostly Arabs. In the 1900s however, Israel won wars and should have got it back due to winning, but the Jew haters refused to leave and expressed their intention to do what Hitler failed to finish, so they had to occupy it to keep Israel safe.

According to this video it's not technically a genocide. About 19000 civilians have died (which sucks) and 13000 Hamas militants have died (praise be to the God of Jacob)

Also the illegal immigrants are slowly invading and occupying our land and the Democrats are happy about that. They want as many of them as possible. No one on the right has sent paragliders to launch a surprise attack on Mexico yet.

Hamas also hogs all the resources that are given to them from other people that support the Palestinians so even without a blockade, it's still likely Hamas would take everything and starve the people to death.

 

 

[roadtonowhere08]

12 hours ago, Anti Marine Layer said:

It would suck to live in Gaza, but the land was originally occupied by Canaanites who sacrificed their children to idols and did other horrible things. Then the Jews got it and wiped out a majority of the Canaanites, which technically made the Jews the indigenous people, since there were so few Canaanites left. Then the Assyrians and Babylonians took over the land many years later. The Jews won it back and even built a wall around Jerusalem (how racist, but that's what most ancient civilizations did to protect themselves.)

In AD 70, the Romans took over the land and named it Palestine for the first time. Other people got it later in other wars, mostly Arabs. In the 1900s however, Israel won wars and should have got it back due to winning, but the Jew haters refused to leave and expressed their intention to do what Hitler failed to finish, so they had to occupy it to keep Israel safe.

According to this video it's not technically a genocide. About 19000 civilians have died (which sucks) and 13000 Hamas militants have died (praise be to the God of Jacob)

Also the illegal immigrants are slowly invading and occupying our land and the Democrats are happy about that. They want as many of them as possible. No one on the right has sent paragliders to launch a surprise attack on Mexico yet.

Hamas also hogs all the resources that are given to them from other people that support the Palestinians so even without a blockade, it's still likely Hamas would take everything and starve the people to death.

 

 

All this post tells me is that you have a lot of research to do on this topic.  A lot.

I like what Coleman Hughes says about color blindness, as hawks pointed out, but as I looked around his X profile and watched his interviews about Israel, he has glaring holes in his understanding. 

He does not have any knowledge of the historical motives from both sides, the political situations, the cynical bargaining, the ultimate goal of the far-right in Israel, the tactics used by the IDF, the cover the U.S. provides Israel in the UN, the lack of accountability the IDF has, the treatment of Arab Israelis, the treatment of Gazans, the rights taken away, the bulldozed cemeteries, the mass graves, the torture of innocent people, the shooting/bombing of their own hostages, the outright lies taken as truth, the international laws broken, the ultra nationalist groups in the IDF and their horrific actions, the intentional killing of journalists, the bastardization of the term "Anti-Semitic", the labeling of Jews who object to Israel's actions as "Self-hating", the labeling of Pro-Palestinian protestors as "Pro-Hamas"... none of it.  He does not know what he is talking about.  He only thinks he does.

That makes me not respect him.  He is a wannabe Hitchens, Chomsky, or Rushdie minus all the context and raw knowledge.

It's a genocide.  People can deny it, but they are either ignorant or don't care.

[roadtonowhere08]

Wanna support Palestinian protesters as a non-profit?  Kiss your tax-exempt status goodbye!  And astroturfing fun, too!

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2024/04/free-speech-on-the-ropes-legislation-to-revoke-not-for-profit-status-of-organizations-that-support-palestine-protests-passes-in-house.html

 

[roadtonowhere08]

On 4/18/2024 at 7:58 PM, roadtonowhere08 said:

So Iran's Foreign Minister Hossein Amir-Abdollahian recently warned that his country's response to any retaliation by Israel would be “immediate and at a maximum level".

 

So I guess?

 

 

I guess the image I posted earlier today was pretty D**n timely, eh?

Well, I forgot to update this little development.  A big nothingburger thankfully in terms of conflict even if it was very out of the ordinary.

But it was a wakeup call to Israel.  I am reading that Iran spent some $60 million in it's launch of it's assortment of cannon fodder.  I use that term because Iran was sending a message and not its good stuff, as any research would show.  The response cost?  About $3 billion!

The fact that the U.S., Israel, and Jordan all participated in intercepting the low cost drones and missiles and still a few managed to strike Israeli land is one hand a testament to the effectiveness of high tech interception, BUT it is also a sobering reality for the U.S. and Israel that if Iran wanted to play hardball, it would be mass destruction in Israel.  That is very unlikely.

What is very likely; however, is the fact that it is a confirmation to Iran that there is a massive cost/benefit in its favor regarding its effectiveness of its long game: proxy war and skirmishes.  It's draining Israeli money and costing U.S. taxpayer money.

Israel needs to get this through their heads: They are on borrowed time in terms of what the global community will tolerate - act accordingly.

This article spells it out nicely: https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2024/04/israel-economy-deterioration-worsens-as-gaza-conflict-and-other-hostilities-grind-on.html

And before smooth-brained Andrew excoriates me in another unread-by-me reply, no, I do not support Iran's government.  They are religious whack jobs oppressing their own people... just like the religious right whack jobs keeping Netanyahu in power.  Two sides of the same coin: Delusional religious whack jobs who should drop dead already.  I am pretty sure the liberal/moderate Jews and Muslims would rejoice.

 

[roadtonowhere08]

I am just blown away by the insanity over people protesting on college campuses.  You'd think that they were violent or threatening Jewish students on a notable scale.

But they are not.  Reports to the contrary are pure propaganda without a shred of credible evidence.

Welcome to 1968.  The police arresting the protestors are on the wrong side of history.  Again.

[Iceresistance]

On 4/30/2024 at 12:57 AM, roadtonowhere08 said:

I am just blown away by the insanity over people protesting on college campuses.  You'd think that they were violent or threatening Jewish students on a notable scale.

But they are not.  Reports to the contrary are pure propaganda without a shred of credible evidence.

Welcome to 1968.  The police arresting the protestors are on the wrong side of history.  Again.

There is evidence of destruction of property and barricading themselves in Colombia University in New York