2016 Fall Off Topic Thread AKA Football or Politics

[Money]

I feel like you live in a world where you can only criticize and blame democrats. Come out into the real world, the air is fresh and people are held accountable for their real actions and not just on whether there is a (D) or an (R ) next to their name.

 

Our country's division is deep and it goes back way farther than Obama. Remember all of the acrimony involving the 2000 election? We thought that was bad.

You also said "real world" when Trump won more states than Hillary did. So wouldn't the "real world" be red states?

[Jesse]

I rather not go to the west coast tbh such a crappy place to live

 

And please show me the massive police protests this country had when George W Bush was in office

 

Please show me a ferguson type situation from 2000-2008...

Well there was the War in Iraq, Katrina, massive increase in surveillance under the Patriot Act, the torture scandal at Abu Ghraib.

 

Not saying Obama was perfect. He probably hurt more than he helped in the end. But only absolving republicans and blindly blaming all democrats just seems so simple minded. People's indentities go beyond what party they claim to be a part of. Most personal ideologies blur party lines IMO.

[TT-SEA]

Uh Gorsuch said he wasn't talking about any case or instance so you're taking words and using it against him

 

Now you have no credibility.   Gorsuch was talking specifically about Trump's comments.   And Spicer was forced to just look silly in trying to spin it. 

 

So the administration would have you believe that Gorsuch was hypothetically speaking about a president saying negative things about the judicial system being demoralizing.    Which Trump did anyways.   

 

I was watching FOX after that press conference and they could not hold back their laughter.    Gorsuch was clearly talking about Trump.   Its an insult to say otherwise.  

[Money]

George W Bush was a crappy president im not denying that but there wasn't this much anger when he was president. You didn't have the massive resistance against cops you didn't have the violent protests like we do now. Obama didn't help things by dividing minorites and cops like he did

[Jesse]

You also said "real world" when Trump won more states than Hillary did. So wouldn't the "real world" be red states?

You seem to only think along partisan lines. By "real world" I meant where you take people on a case by case basis and don't immoderately judge their worth or fraction of blame by what political party they associate themselves with. That is how the real world operates. Do you only blame democrats and liberals for all of your problems in your home town, personal life? It's easier to make broad claims about the entire population of an entire party from a macro scale. But day to day I'm sure you know many "democrats" who you would consider decent people. I know many republicans who I would consider as such.

[Jesse]

Money has a really bad habit of avoiding direct questions, the answers to which may cause painful cognitive dissonance.

[Money]

I don't blame anyone for my problems. You make the most of what you have and it's better when the govt is out of your life

 

I've voted for democrats before so I don't get why you guys think I'm so partisan

[TT-SEA]

George W Bush was a crappy president im not denying that but there wasn't this much anger when he was president. You didn't have the massive resistance against cops you didn't have the violent protests like we do now. Obama didn't help things by dividing minorites and cops like he did

 

If Trump would stop the petty attacks and lies then it would calm down.   Of course he is in a no-win situation to some extent because of his behavior to date.  

 

How can you Trump supporters not see that?   It will never be good for the country to have president acting like a paranoid child.   Its so simple.  

Like I said... some of my relatives in the Midwest thought Trump was the greatest thing since sliced bread and now they sort of think he might actually be crazy.   He is going to lose all but the core of his base with his behavior.   

 

You keep saying he is doing all these wonderful things... but the rest of us see a mentally ill person in charge of the country.   The protests and backlash will only grow unless he changes his tone.   Which is unlikely to happen.  So there you have it.  It is what it is.  

[Money]

Yeah I'm sure it will calm down that's why we see Devos get blocked out of going to a school by protestors and we see w huge protest at MM house last night right?

[TT-SEA]

Yeah I'm sure it will calm down that's why we see Devos get blocked out of going to a school by protestors and we see w huge protest at MM house last night right?

 

Has Trump stopped the propaganda machine?   Is he still attacking people like a paranoid child on Twitter?  

 

No?   Then its going to stay intense.   

 

It would have been amazing if Trump was playing a character during the campaign and then flipped to being a person who could reach out to all people and be leader after the election.    I was genuinely cheering for that to be the case.  

 

As it stands... he is going to make it so much harder on himself.   Its a shame.  Its all on him right now. 

[Guest happ]

TT-SEA, on 11 Feb 2017 - 1:37 PM, said:

Has Trump stopped the propaganda machine?   Is he still attacking people like a paranoid child on Twitter?  

 

No?   Then its going to stay intense.   

 

It would have been amazing if Trump was playing a character during the campaign and then flipped to being a person who could reach out to all people and be leader after the election.    I was genuinely cheering for that to be the case.  

 

As it stands... he is going to make it so much harder on himself.   Its a shame.  Its all on him right now. 

 

Its all about Trump, the way he likes it.

[Money]

Has Trump stopped the propaganda machine? Is he still attacking people like a paranoid child on Twitter?

 

No? Then its going to stay intense.

 

It would have been amazing if Trump was playing a character during the campaign and then flipped to being a person who could reach out to all people and be leader after the election. I was genuinely cheering for that to be the case.

 

As it stands... he is going to make it so much harder on himself. Its a shame. Its all on him right now.

The media doesn't help things with the constant fake stories that they publish and then 5-6 hours later take back and say they got false info

[Guest happ]

Money, on 11 Feb 2017 - 1:53 PM, said:

The media doesn't help things with the constant fake stories that they publish and then 5-6 hours later take back and say they got false info

 

So Fox News is reporting "fake news"?

[TT-SEA]

The media doesn't help things with the constant fake stories that they publish and then 5-6 hours later take back and say they got false info

So stupid.

 

He is the president. Lead like an adult... stop the petty attacks... reach out to all people... and then let the media catch up!

 

News he does not like is not fake news.

 

The media is there to challenge him... he is making it far too easy. Just focus on being president.

 

Sadly though it is just his personality and he will continually make it hard for himself. This is not like running a business.

[TT-SEA]

While Trump is surely to blame for part of it, the problem does not end there. The media, top political leaders who encourage, some of Trump's team, all the protesters/anarchists, the majority of college students who feel "threatened", and the list goes on. Whether you are an instigator or a reactor to the issue, you are not part of the solution.

You could argue it starts at the top, but something tells me even if Trump toned it down all those other factors would continue. Our country will continue down this divided road until political leaders (on both sides) as well as the media realize they have to stop putting themselves first and start working to fix things. Until then, expect more of the same.

Trump has probably dug too deep of a hole now.

 

Pissing off a huge percentage of the country on a daily basis might be funny to people like Jim... but it will also act to block Trump from being successful.

[Guest happ]

hawkstwelve, on 11 Feb 2017 - 2:00 PM, said:

While Trump is surely to blame for part of it, the problem does not end there. The media, top political leaders who encourage, some of Trump's team, all the protesters/anarchists, the majority of college students who feel "threatened", and the list goes on. Whether you are an instigator or a reactor to the issue, you are not part of the solution.

 

You could argue it starts at the top, but something tells me even if Trump toned it down all those other factors would continue. Our country will continue down this divided road until political leaders (on both sides) as well as the media realize they have to stop putting themselves first and start working to fix things. Until then, expect more of the same.

 

I think it is too late for Trump but that doesn't mean the Republicans can not lead. Trump is viewed as a fool and may never live that down because his uniquely repulsive personality is on display every day. Republicans are embarrassed day after day; that won't last forever.

[snow_wizard]

What do you think Gorsuch was referring to?

He could have been referring to the fact the Seattle judge was such an idiot that it forced (or at least caused) Trump to attack him. Might have been blaming both to some extent.

[Money]

Trump has probably dug too deep of a hole now.

 

Pissing off a huge percentage of the country on a daily basis might be funny to people like Jim... but it will also act to block Trump from being successful.

He was the same way during the primaries and won the GOP primary and the election

 

I don't care if he attacks people or continue with his behavior if he can get a good tax reform and health care bill done

 

We've had years of presidents who acted nice but never did anything. Now we have someone who can maybe get things done. I'll take that

[TT-SEA]

He was the same way during the primaries and won the GOP primary and the election

I don't care if he attacks people or continue with his behavior if he can get a good tax reform and health care bill done

We've had years of presidents who acted nice but never did anything. Now we have someone who can maybe get things done. I'll take that

His behavior to get elected will not help him be successful as president.

 

How is that not obvious?

 

You have to play nice now. Just a fact.

[snow_wizard]

I think it is too late for Trump but that doesn't mean the Republicans can not lead. Trump is viewed as a fool and may never live that down because his uniquely repulsive personality is on display every day. Republicans are embarrassed day after day; that won't last forever.

I think you're wrong about Trump. Time will tell I guess. He still has a decent approval rating. People are seeing through the media bias which undoubtedly makes him look worse than he really is. I like the things he is doing. He can be over the top at times though, but a lot of his supporters like that.

[Guest happ]

Money, on 11 Feb 2017 - 2:08 PM, said:

He was the same way during the primaries and won the GOP primary and the election

 

I don't care if he attacks people or continue with his behavior if he can get a good tax reform and health care bill done

 

We've had years of presidents who acted nice but never did anything. Now we have someone who can maybe get things done. I'll take that

 

Evidently you are not watching Fox News. The critiques of Trump ae not favorable. It gets absurd after a while to defend Trump.

[TT-SEA]

He could have been referring to the fact the Seattle judge was such an idiot that it forced (or at least caused) Trump to attack him. Might have been blaming both to some extent.

And then the 3 judges afterwards??

 

Caused him to attack??

 

OMG. Could you imagine if Hillary did that?

 

Turns out... it worked. EO will likely be torn up and replaced with a better one.

[Money]

The media has a way worse favorable rating than Trump and not many people are going to come out and support him

 

Look what's happening with Under Armor now. The CEO came out and praised his economic view and now Stephen Curry might drop them

 

Toby Keith a registered democrat for awhile played at his inauguration and now people want him dropped at festivals etc

 

It was the same way during the election season

[Money]

The Under Armour CEO said this: Having such a pro business president is such an asset to this country."

 

What a monsterous thing to say and now all the calls to boycott the company

[Jesse]

He could have been referring to the fact the Seattle judge was such an idiot that it forced (or at least caused) Trump to attack him. Might have been blaming both to some extent.

 

Those are some pretty elaborate mental gymnastics.

[TT-SEA]

Those are some pretty elaborate mental gymnastics.

 

 

Good Lord.    Jim does that all the time... and has for years.    

 

Gorsuch said Trump's attacks on the judicial system were demoralizing and disheartening.   And he was right. 

[TT-SEA]

The Under Armour CEO said this: Having such a pro business president is such an asset to this country."

 

What a monsterous thing to say and now all the calls to boycott the company

 

All goes back to what I was saying before.   Its on Trump.   He will get backlash on everything... and people praising him will as well.   It will not change until Trump changes.  That is a fact.

[Jesse]

While some on here complain of Jim grouping all liberals together, you sure do like to do the same thing to Republicans. Not every Republican is embarrassed and I wouldn't think you would be the right person to answer that anyways, as an extremely-left liberal living in CA. Literally the furthest thing from knowing about Republicans. As evidence of this, you try to quote Lindsey Graham as if he speaks for the Republican party. That guy has been against Trump since day 1. He is not the best source to get a pulse for the majority of the Republican party.

 

As I said before, Happ is the liberal equivalent of Jim. Try not to judge the rest of us who lean somewhat left by his extreme, divisive rhetoric.

[Jesse]

All goes back to what I was saying before.   Its on Trump.   He will get backlash on everything... and people praising him will as well.   It will not change until Trump changes.  That is a fact.

 

Trump isn't going to change though.

 

I keep thinking of that line from the Dark Knight about what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object.

[TT-SEA]

Trump isn't going to change though.

 

I keep thinking of that line from the Dark Knight about what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object.

Yep.

 

It is what it is.

 

Ultimately everyone will be unhappy.

[Front Ranger]

I'm generally not a big fan of The Atlantic, but I found this psychological profile of Trump from last June to be fascinating: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/the-mind-of-donald-trump/480771/

 

It goes very in depth with comparisons to previous presidents. According to the author, Trump's personality has some elements of previous presidents and leaders (LBJ, Steve Jobs, and especially Andrew Jackson), but his unique mix of narcissism, grandiosity, and low agreeability is a first for a U.S. president. It's not all bad. But at the end of the day, the author is left wondering: where does it lead to? Trump has always been about fighting to win and accumulating the spoils, but there doesn't seem to be any greater goal than to triumph over his adversaries.

 

Apologies if this article has been posted before. 

[Money]

All goes back to what I was saying before. Its on Trump. He will get backlash on everything... and people praising him will as well. It will not change until Trump changes. That is a fact.

Except it shouldn't be like this no matter how Trump has acted

[Front Ranger]

Trump has a long way to go to catch Obama... he deported 2.5 million illegal immigrants.   More than any other president.  

 

To be fair, there were probably more illegal immigrants to deport over his 8 years than any previous term.

[Jesse]

Except it shouldn't be like this no matter how Trump has acted

 

This doesn't make sense. The President doesn't get a free pass to act however and expect no blowback. If the President behaves a certain way the country is going to respond in turn. He has acted irresponsibly in many ways since taking office. He has done some good as well ( I liked him pulling us out of the TPP and taking actions that appeared to look like he was trying bring jobs back to this country, working with Unions, etc) but I think you can say pretty objectively that all of that has been overshadowed by the bad. And you can't just blame the press for everything. At some point it comes down to him. Have you heard of the phrase "The Buck Stops Here"?

[TT-SEA]

You literally bypass all my other points to continue to bash/blame Trump.

 

As Jesse said to Money yesterday, you are so blinded by your partisan views (really just unabashed hatred for Trump) that it's impossible to have a logical discussion with you. It's a shame, really.

 

 

I am not on the left.   I lean right.   That is the truth.

 

I am just reporting the facts... as you can see across the country.   It is what it is.   The media will not change.   Trump is the only person who has the power to change his tone and stop all the attacks.  Rise above it.   Then things will change.   Slowly... but they will change.

 

Go ahead and ignore it and blame me.   But it will continue for the rest of his term if he does not change his tone... and he will be his own worst enemy.    Regardless of what I think or say.    You think it will change as long as he is acting the way he acts?   

 

It might not bother you... but obviously its going to be his achilles heel.  

[Front Ranger]

I can't seem to find the remarks you are referring to.

 

One thing to bear in mind is Trump is an anti establishment populist.  As such he will have some Republican's against him.  The interesting thing is the establishment he is against are the people who have been attacking the Constitution for years now.  He want's to fix the damage that has been done.  Anti establishment in this case means a return to following the Constitution.  Even people like Glenn Beck has misconstrued what Trump is all about.

 

I don't understand what makes you so convinced that Trump is such a defender of the Constitution. You always paint him in that light, and I know the constitution is very important to you, but I haven't seen much evidence that Trump adheres to your ideals.

[Front Ranger]

You would have to be blind to ignore all of the evidence.

 

Oh well. Luckily not everyone is turning a blind eye.

 

You didn't answer his question. What would Russia's motivation be to help Trump win?

[Front Ranger]

While Trump is surely to blame for part of it, the problem does not end there. The media, top political leaders who encourage, some of Trump's team, all the protesters/anarchists, the majority of college students who feel "threatened", and the list goes on. Whether you are an instigator or a reactor to the issue, you are not part of the solution.

 

You could argue it starts at the top, but something tells me even if Trump toned it down all those other factors would continue. Our country will continue down this divided road until political leaders (on both sides) as well as the media realize they have to stop putting themselves first and start working to fix things. Until then, expect more of the same.

 

Yeah, the country has been increasingly polarized for a while. The mainstream media has been overwhelmingly one-sided for awhile, and they also love controversy and division. Blaming Trump is stupid - he's just brought it more to light. And he's certainly not making it better.

[Jesse]

You didn't answer his question. What would Russian's motivation be to help Trump win?

I think what we call something like that is the $64,000 dollar question.

 

I don't think anyone has answers. But if that was indeed the case (yet to be proven) it's a lot to chew on.

[Front Ranger]

 

The "wall" sure didn't stop the Feds from coming in and picking up a bunch of illegals the other day.

 

If you're talking about the same incident, that had nothing to do with the current administration...FWIW.

 

Of course, the way some news sources reported it, you'd never know that.

 

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-immigration-ice-20170210-story.html