SilverFallsAndrew Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 Agreed. Jan/Feb 1996 was definitely a regional Arctic outbreak, but for the western lowlands overall, definitely not top tier or better than many of those other blasts you mentioned. For example, OLM only saw two sub-freezing highs and no single digit lows with that. Yeah, it was a good event, but away from the gorge nothing earth shattering. SLE had 2 sub-freezing highs with it, and bottomed out at 15. The day PDX was 23/18, SLE was 32/19. We had about 4" of snow in Silverton on the 26th or 27th, but it melted in the 2 days before the arctic air arrived. If it had stuck around we would have been able to have some good radiational cooling. Quote Snowfall Precip 2022-23: 95.0" 2022-23: 17.39" 2021-22: 52.6" 2021-22: 91.46" 2020-21: 12.0" 2020-21: 71.59" 2019-20: 23.5" 2019-20: 58.54" 2018-19: 63.5" 2018-19: 66.33" 2017-18: 30.3" 2017-18: 59.83" 2016-17: 49.2" 2016-17: 97.58" 2015-16: 11.75" 2015-16: 68.67" 2014-15: 3.5" 2013-14: 11.75" 2013-14: 62.30 2012-13: 16.75" 2012-13: 78.45 2011-12: 98.5" 2011-12: 92.67" It's always sunny at Winters Hill! Fighting the good fight against weather evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Front Ranger Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 If I remember correctly we had about a foot of snow going into it and remained below freezing for the most part up here for about a week...but its very hazy now. I doubt it was that long. No data for Arlington for that event, but Sedro Wooley saw 3 sub-freezing highs. Monroe had a couple. BLI did better with 5, but of course they almost always kick everyone else's a** in outflow situations. Quote A forum for the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLI snowman Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 Got down to 5 here in 1996, with snow on the ground the entire event and a nice string of subfreezing days. Definitely was a Portland area-special on the westside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawniganLake Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 Shawnigan Lake dropped to 8 in January 1996. The only time we have been colder since was December 2008. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MossMan Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 I doubt it was that long. No data for Arlington for that event, but Sedro Wooley saw 3 sub-freezing highs. Monroe had a couple. BLI did better with 5, but of course they almost always kick everyone else's a** in outflow situations.Could be, though at Lake Goodwin the temp always runs about 3-5 degrees below Marysville and Arlington for highs. Their lows are sometimes lower however so I might have hovered at or just below freezing especially with snow cover. I did see Everett had a low of 12 so if I remember correctly I remember seeing a low of 8. Quote Elevation 580’ Location a few miles east of I-5 on the Snohomish Co side of the Snohomish/Skagit border. I love snow/cold AND sun/warmth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawniganLake Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 Could be, though at Lake Goodwin the temp always runs about 3-5 degrees below Marysville and Arlington for highs. Their lows are sometimes lower however so I might have hovered at or just below freezing especially with snow cover. I did see Everett had a low of 12 so if I remember correctly I remember seeing a low of 8.We only had 3 consecutive highs below freezing up here. But we did have 18 consecutive days below 40. So it’s quite possible you had a week with highs below or just slightly above freezing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverFallsAndrew Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 We only had 3 consecutive highs below freezing up here. But we did have 18 consecutive days below 40. So it’s quite possible you had a week with highs below or just slightly above freezing. I remember a lot of non-sticking snow with about 1000' snow levels the 2nd half of January 96'. I remember calling up to Silver Falls each morning asking how much snow they had gotten. 1 Quote Snowfall Precip 2022-23: 95.0" 2022-23: 17.39" 2021-22: 52.6" 2021-22: 91.46" 2020-21: 12.0" 2020-21: 71.59" 2019-20: 23.5" 2019-20: 58.54" 2018-19: 63.5" 2018-19: 66.33" 2017-18: 30.3" 2017-18: 59.83" 2016-17: 49.2" 2016-17: 97.58" 2015-16: 11.75" 2015-16: 68.67" 2014-15: 3.5" 2013-14: 11.75" 2013-14: 62.30 2012-13: 16.75" 2012-13: 78.45 2011-12: 98.5" 2011-12: 92.67" It's always sunny at Winters Hill! Fighting the good fight against weather evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 Big-time Walker/Indo cell amplification upcoming as the equatorward wavetrain strengthens in response to the -NAM, and affects the dateline/warm pool convection. Result: A strong, slow-propagating, wave-1 system and associated trade wind burst. http://www.atmos.albany.edu/student/ventrice/real_time/timeLon/u.anom.30.5S-5N.gif Quote Live Weather Cam: https://www.youtube.com/live/KxlIo8-KVpc?si=xKLCFYWbZieAfyh6 PWS Wunderground https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KMDBETHE62 PWS CWOP/NOAA: https://www.weather.gov/wrh/timeseries?site=F3819&hours=72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvssnow_spokane Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 Not good news if it verifies@DTVaWeathermanIts temporary. We will get ours. Quote My Weather Station https://tempestwx.com/station/61434 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvssnow_spokane Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 Winter needs to be canceled as soon as possible, guys. Feel better!? Quote My Weather Station https://tempestwx.com/station/61434 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLI snowman Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 Feel better!? chopsticks-upright-bowl-rice-500x0_q80_crop-smart_upscale-true.jpg That rice is much more stick-y than our snow is going to be! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest happ Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 Its temporary. We will get ours. You may "get" yours but will California get anything this winter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Front Ranger Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 You may "get" yours but will California get anything this winter? How'd you guys do in 1989-90, 1995-96, and 1981-82? Those three analogs have really been leading the way lately. Quote A forum for the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest happ Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 How'd you guys do in 1989-90, 1995-96, and 1981-82? Those three analogs have really been leading the way lately. Not good for downtown. 1981-82: 10.711989-90: 7.351995-96: 12.46 per: http://www.laalmanac.com/weather/we08aa.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Front Ranger Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 Ouch. How about 1962-63? Quote A forum for the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest happ Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 Ouch. How about 1962-63? Are you trying to depress me? Rain total for 1962-63 was: 8.38 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawniganLake Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 I remember a lot of non-sticking snow with about 1000' snow levels the 2nd half of January 96'. I remember calling up to Silver Falls each morning asking how much snow they had gotten. We had a lot of snow that month, 25”, but most of it fell before the arctic air arrived on the 28th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow_wizard Posted December 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 Agreed. Jan/Feb 1996 was definitely a regional Arctic outbreak, but for the western lowlands overall, definitely not top tier or better than many of those other blasts you mentioned. For example, OLM only saw two sub-freezing highs and no single digit lows with that. It dropped to 9 where I was living in Woodinville. All I know is the lakes around here haven't frozen over as thick as they did that winter since. Quote Death To Warm Anomalies! Winter 2023-24 stats Total Snowfall = 1.0" Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1 Total Hail = 0.0 Total Ice = 0.2 Coldest Low = 13 Lows 32 or below = 45 Highs 32 or below = 3 Lows 20 or below = 3 Highs 40 or below = 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow_wizard Posted December 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 Its temporary. We will get ours. Agreed. This actually makes something huge seem more likely. Quote Death To Warm Anomalies! Winter 2023-24 stats Total Snowfall = 1.0" Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1 Total Hail = 0.0 Total Ice = 0.2 Coldest Low = 13 Lows 32 or below = 45 Highs 32 or below = 3 Lows 20 or below = 3 Highs 40 or below = 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow_wizard Posted December 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 Big-time Walker/Indo cell amplification upcoming as the equatorward wavetrain strengthens in response to the -NAM, and affects the dateline/warm pool convection. Result: A strong, slow-propagating, wave-1 system and associated trade wind burst. That is probably the most extreme gradient I have ever seen on that graph. Something big has to happen with that. Quote Death To Warm Anomalies! Winter 2023-24 stats Total Snowfall = 1.0" Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1 Total Hail = 0.0 Total Ice = 0.2 Coldest Low = 13 Lows 32 or below = 45 Highs 32 or below = 3 Lows 20 or below = 3 Highs 40 or below = 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Front Ranger Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 It dropped to 9 where I was living in Woodinville. All I know is the lakes around here haven't frozen over as thick as they did that winter since. The proof is in the pudding. The numbers in western WA simply weren't as impressive in 1996 as they have been in some Arctic outbreaks since. Quote A forum for the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 The proof is in the pudding. The numbers in western WA simply weren't as impressive in 1996 as they have been in some Arctic outbreaks since.Your recency bias is usually pretty apparent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLI snowman Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 That is probably the most extreme gradient I have ever seen on that graph. Something big has to happen with that. Wettest January on record incoming? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLI snowman Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 The proof is in the pudding. The numbers in western WA simply weren't as impressive in 1996 as they have been in some Arctic outbreaks since. December 1998 is probably the only one that was more impressive in an outright sense. November 2010 and December 2008 were probably about equal in Western WA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow_wizard Posted December 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 The proof is in the pudding. The numbers in western WA simply weren't as impressive in 1996 as they have been in some Arctic outbreaks since. I think it was duration and the fact it had been cold for many days before the big blast that made that one so good IMO. It also managed to come up with clear skies during the cold weather. Quote Death To Warm Anomalies! Winter 2023-24 stats Total Snowfall = 1.0" Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1 Total Hail = 0.0 Total Ice = 0.2 Coldest Low = 13 Lows 32 or below = 45 Highs 32 or below = 3 Lows 20 or below = 3 Highs 40 or below = 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow_wizard Posted December 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 Wettest January on record incoming? We've already had our very wet period. This month ended up very wet here. Quote Death To Warm Anomalies! Winter 2023-24 stats Total Snowfall = 1.0" Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1 Total Hail = 0.0 Total Ice = 0.2 Coldest Low = 13 Lows 32 or below = 45 Highs 32 or below = 3 Lows 20 or below = 3 Highs 40 or below = 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Front Ranger Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 Your recency bias is usually pretty apparent.Look at the numbers for western WA in 1996 vs other Arctic outbreaks. If you think I'm wrong, prove it. Quote A forum for the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Front Ranger Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 December 1998 is probably the only one that was more impressive in an outright sense. November 2010 and December 2008 were probably about equal in Western WA.Dec 2008 produced way more sub-freezing highs most places in Western WA. Quote A forum for the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow_wizard Posted December 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 Dec 2008 produced way more sub-freezing highs most places in Western WA. I liked 1996 better. I lived in the same place for both. Jan 1996 was much more enjoyable. Quote Death To Warm Anomalies! Winter 2023-24 stats Total Snowfall = 1.0" Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1 Total Hail = 0.0 Total Ice = 0.2 Coldest Low = 13 Lows 32 or below = 45 Highs 32 or below = 3 Lows 20 or below = 3 Highs 40 or below = 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Front Ranger Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 I liked 1996 better. I lived in the same place for both. Jan 1996 was much more enjoyable.Sure, that's cool. Also subjective... I'm talking hard, objective numbers. Quote A forum for the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverFallsAndrew Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 Better/ more enjoyable (So bring some good ole' subjectivity into this.) arctic outbreaks here since 1996. Dec 98Jan 04Dec 08Dec 09Dec 13Feb 14 Quote Snowfall Precip 2022-23: 95.0" 2022-23: 17.39" 2021-22: 52.6" 2021-22: 91.46" 2020-21: 12.0" 2020-21: 71.59" 2019-20: 23.5" 2019-20: 58.54" 2018-19: 63.5" 2018-19: 66.33" 2017-18: 30.3" 2017-18: 59.83" 2016-17: 49.2" 2016-17: 97.58" 2015-16: 11.75" 2015-16: 68.67" 2014-15: 3.5" 2013-14: 11.75" 2013-14: 62.30 2012-13: 16.75" 2012-13: 78.45 2011-12: 98.5" 2011-12: 92.67" It's always sunny at Winters Hill! Fighting the good fight against weather evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLI snowman Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 Dec 2008 produced way more sub-freezing highs most places in Western WA. I'm talking more about intensity than duration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 I'm talking more about intensity than duration.I think most of us are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Front Ranger Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 I think it was duration and the fact it had been cold for many days before the big blast that made that one so good IMO. It also managed to come up with clear skies during the cold weather. I'm talking more about intensity than duration. I think most of us are. Duration aside, OLM, SEA, Arlington, and other western WA locations all got colder in 2008 than 1996. 1996 was simply a different animal for Portland than most of the rest of the region. Quote A forum for the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLI snowman Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 Duration aside, OLM, SEA, Arlington, and other western WA locations all got colder in 2008 than 1996. Lows for Western WA stations Vancouver 4NNE: 1996: 5, 2008: 10Longview: 1996: 15, 2008: 17Centralia: 1996: 14, 2008: 18OLM: 1996: 10, 2008: 7TCM: 1996: 7, 2008: 13SEA: 1996: 15, 2008: 14Monroe: 1996: 9, 2008: 5Sedo-Woolley: 1996: 15, 2008: 9BLI: 1996: 10, 2008; 11 Pretty comparable level of cold there overall for the Western WA I-5 corridor. Highs are a similar story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Front Ranger Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 Lows for Western WA stations Vancouver 4NNE: 1996: 5, 2008: 10Longview: 1996: 15, 2008: 17Centralia: 1996: 14, 2008: 18OLM: 1996: 10, 2008: 7TCM: 1996: 7, 2008: 13SEA: 1996: 15, 2008: 14Monroe: 1996: 9, 2008: 5Sedo-Woolley: 1996: 15, 2008: 9BLI: 1996: 10, 2008; 11 Pretty comparable level of cold there overall for the Western WA I-5 corridor. Highs are a similar story. 5/7 of the non-outflow stations you list were colder in 2008. Regardless, you make the same basic point...for most of western WA, 1996 definitely didn't have the edge for intensity, and it wasn't close for duration of sub-freezing cold. Quote A forum for the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLI snowman Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 5/7 of the non-outflow stations you list were colder in 2008. Regardless, you make the same basic point...for most of western WA, 1996 definitely didn't have the edge for intensity, and it wasn't close for duration of sub-freezing cold. Eh? Better count again, I listed 9 spots there and 5 were colder in 1996. Easterly outflow spots weren't the only ones colder in 1996. I know you like to generally put a lot of emphasis on the big stations in the Olympia to Everett corridor, but it's still just a relatively small chunk of western WA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Front Ranger Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 Eh? Better count again, I listed 9 spots there and 5 were colder in 1996. Easterly outflow spots weren't the only ones colder in 1996. I know you like to generally put a lot of emphasis on the big stations in the Olympia to Everett corridor, but it's still just a relatively small chunk of western WA.Yeah, Vancouver and BLI are outflow locations. I was pointing out that regionally, outside of outflow locations it really isn't close. 2008 was at least as cold as 1996 most places, and the truly cold days were easily more numerous in 2008. Quote A forum for the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLI snowman Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 Yeah, Vancouver and BLI are outflow locations. I was pointing out that regionally, outside of outflow locations it really isn't close. 2008 was at least as cold as 1996 most places, and the truly cold days were easily more numerous in 2008. You're moving the goalposts. In terms of intensity for Western WA overall (overall meaning overall), which is what you and I have been discussing, the arctic airmass in 1996 was indeed very comparable to either of the airmasses in December 2008. There wasn't a clear gap there and it's definitely hyperbolic to say that "they aren't close". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Front Ranger Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 I feel like you're just looking for a semantics battle. I meant when looking at a combination of duration and intensity, it's not close. I was never looking at intensity alone, and neither was Jim. 2008 was easily the more impressive event for western WA, apart from isolated outflow areas. And that's not even including snowfall. 2008 had way more almost everywhere. Quote A forum for the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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