Polite Politics

[Iceresistance]

5 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

A jury LITERALLY convicted him for that. 

My god it's like he's....GOD to you people.  He's above everyone else. Unreal.

Except the Rape case that supposedly happened in the 1990s is PAST the Statue of Limitations?

[hawkstwelve]

39 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

The alternative is just...letting him do those things with no consequence or attempt to hold them accountable?  John Edwards got in trouble for doing what trump did with the improper use of election funds.  Why should Trump be any different?

Just because he's an @sshole doesn't mean he gets to do whatever he wants with no consequence.

Half of that was his own doing and half of that was Democrats making shit up to see what sticks.

And before you say it - there's no use in denying that because it'll just make you look like even more of a partisan hack than you already do. Any semi-objective person can admit that the Democrats and the media have loathed the guy since he came down the golden escalator and have done everything in their power to stop him/remove him from power/make him not run again. It's been plainly transparent for years now.

Again, not saying he doesn't bring half that stuff upon himself. He's an idiot through and through which is why he doesn't get away with a ton of crap that other politicians normally get away with. But Democrats have taken it so far to the extreme for so long that now he can pretend he's a victim and at least a sizable chunk of this country believes him.

A billionaire victim. Good Lord... That's hard to do and yet somehow you guys did it.

[roadtonowhere08]

1 hour ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

May I ask...based on what?  This is a broad statement and I bet you would be hard pressed to find anyone of power on the left saying anything remotely close to "not caring about border security" or "not caring about who is crossing the border"

There's a lot to this, but I'll sum it up with two thoughts:

1. People with more left leaning views come from a more empathetic and nurturing worldview.  Naturally this lends itself to a more open and lax stance on allowing people here legally or illegally to better their lives.  As a result, border security and denying people entry is less of an immediate concern for them.

2. The recent panic of some northern state governors/mayors when immigrants are moved to their states is comical.  Border states have been dealing with it for decades.  It's a case of reality clashing with political purity.

Of course nobody would say they do not care about border security, but actions speak louder than words.

A couple links:

- https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/09/08/republicans-and-democrats-have-different-top-priorities-for-u-s-immigration-policy/

- https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/11/21/democrats-border-problem-is-getting-real/

[Rubus Leucodermis]

2 hours ago, hawkstwelve said:

It's not just the indictments. The indictments are just the straw that broke the camel's back. It's everything leading up to the indictments that caused this...

- Russiagate

- Robert Mueller

- Stormy Daniels

- Michael Avenatti

- Never-ending barrage of negative media

- Ukraine

- Two impeachments

- Countless investigations

- Tax returns

- Going after his family businesses

That's just the stuff off the top of my head. Point being: you guys have done the impossible and made a brash, narcissistic NY billionaire a f*cking martyr. Congratulations!

If anyone (well, anyone not rich and powerful) OTHER THAN Trump had done half of what Trump did, they would have been sentenced a long time ago and would now be in jail.

[SnarkyGoblin]

52 minutes ago, hawkstwelve said:

Half of that was his own doing and half of that was Democrats making up to see what sticks.

And before you say it - there's no use in denying that because it'll just make you look like even more of a partisan hack than you already do. Any semi-objective person can admit that the Democrats and the media have loathed the guy since he came down the golden escalator and have done everything in their power to stop him/remove him from power/make him not run again. It's been plainly transparent for years now.

Again, not saying he doesn't bring half that stuff upon himself. He's an idiot through and through which is why he doesn't get away with a ton of crap that other politicians normally get away with. But Democrats have taken it so far to the extreme for so long that now he can pretend he's a victim and at least a sizable chunk of this country believes him.

A billionaire victim. Good Lord... That's hard to do and yet somehow you guys did it.

a republican blaming the democrats for their own horrible nominee.  

rich.

EDIT: Republicans could literally have put an end to all of this if the senate had convicted him in the second impeachment.  Do you bring that up?  Nope.  It's all the DEMOCRATS fault trump is the nominee for thinking that asking for personal favors of leader of the state as president is a bad thing.  The NERVE.  

And it's me who is the partisan hack...

JFC.

[Rubus Leucodermis]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/merrick-garland-trump-jan-6-probe-bias-b2360768.html

If the DoJ would have fast-tracked it, it would have been “Waaa! They’re picking on Trump for fast-tracking it!”

If the DoJ had proceeded at a normal pace, they would have been accused of fast-tracking it.

Because the DoJ dragged their feet, it is now “Waaa! They’re picking on Trump by timing it to coincide with the campaign!”

Basically, anything other than special rights for Trump (total immunity from prosecution or criticism) is “persecution.” The words and will of the führer must at all times be above all written law.

[Minny_Weather]

2 hours ago, roadtonowhere08 said:

Out of curiosity, of the current indictments, are there any that you believe should be pursued to their fullest extent?  If so, which ones?

Of all the ones we have, I think that the classified documents case is probably the most legitimate one on the docket. I think they're all politically-fueled (obviously they are), but that's the only one that actually has legs to stand on. Now that the charges are on there, obviously they should be pursued to their fullest extent even though I think most of them are corrupt bs.

Do I agree with it? I dunno, I didn't conduct the investigation.

[Minny_Weather]

29 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

EDIT: Republicans could literally have put an end to all of this if the senate had convicted him in the second impeachment.

Nope. Sorry. I don't think either impeachment was legitimate (nor would the impeachment effort against Biden if it went through). And honestly? The second one was more of a purely symbolic sham than the first.

Go ahead, do what Rubus did and accuse me of being a Trump worshipper now.

[Andie]

Back to the border- my greatest concern are terrorists and spies.  You can bet they’re in the mix.  
That’s the real reason for screening and having a wall.  National Security.  
I fear we’ll pay for this policy.  

[hawkstwelve]

29 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

a republican blaming the democrats for their own horrible nominee.  

rich.

EDIT: Republicans could literally have put an end to all of this if the senate had convicted him in the second impeachment.  Do you bring that up?  Nope.  It's all the DEMOCRATS fault trump is the nominee for thinking that asking for personal favors of leader of the state as president is a bad thing.  The NERVE.  

And it's me who is the partisan hack...

JFC.

Uh... When did I say it was only the Democrats fault? I thought I have been pretty clear lately with how idiotic MAGA "Republicans" and the GOP establishment are for continuing to line up behind him. It's incredibly frustrating. At the same time, the Democrats have only made things worse with their never-ending persecution of the guy. It lets him be able to play a card he wouldn't otherwise get to play. Both things can be true.

[SnarkyGoblin]

8 hours ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

Republicans actually don’t give a sh*t about the border.

There is a bipartisan border security bill up for a vote in Congress and McConnell has just announced a lack of interest in supporting it any more, because “the candidate” (i.e. Trump) will be helped if the situation festers for the next year or so.

https://wapo.st/3UdnrZy

yep - if there's any proof that the border is just used to rile up their xenophic base, this is the one. 

Here's Romney calling out their bull$hit

Quote

“I think the border is a very important issue for Donald Trump,” Romney, the Republican senator from Utah, told reporters on Capitol Hill on Thursday.

“And the fact that he would communicate to Republican senators and congresspeople that he doesn’t want us to solve the border problem because he wants to blame [Joe] Biden for it is … really appalling.”

[SnarkyGoblin]

7 minutes ago, Minny_Weather said:

Nope. Sorry. I don't think either impeachment was legitimate (nor would the impeachment effort against Biden if it went through). And honestly? The second one was more of a purely symbolic sham than the first.

Go ahead, do what Rubus did and accuse me of being a Trump worshipper now.

What do you mean "nope"?   What I said was true.  10ish Senate votes is all it would have taken.

[Minny_Weather]

Just now, SnarkyGoblin said:

What do you mean "nope"?   What I said was true.  10ish Senate votes is all it would have taken.

You took my nope the wrong way.

[Minny_Weather]

8 minutes ago, hawkstwelve said:

Uh... When did I say it was only the Democrats fault? I thought I have been pretty clear lately with how idiotic MAGA "Republicans" and the GOP establishment are for continuing to line up behind him. It's incredibly frustrating. At the same time, the Democrats have only made things worse with their never-ending persecution of the guy. It lets him be able to play a card he wouldn't otherwise get to play. Both things can be true.

Literally all these two have been doing all day is accusing anyone who disagrees with them on anything of being an extremist MAGA racist fangirl. It's annoying. It's like Happ didn't leave this forum, he just asexually reproduced and made 2 Happs.

[SnarkyGoblin]

Gang of Eight (immigration) - Wikipedia

@roadtonowhere08 "actions speak louder than words"

[roadtonowhere08]

17 minutes ago, Minny_Weather said:

Of all the ones we have, I think that the classified documents case is probably the most legitimate one on the docket. I think they're all politically-fueled (obviously they are), but that's the only one that actually has legs to stand on. Now that the charges are on there, obviously they should be pursued to their fullest extent even though I think most of them are corrupt bs.

Do I agree with it? I dunno, I didn't conduct the investigation.

Interesting.  I can go either way on that one.  It's bad and illegal, but the two below are beyond the pale:

#1: https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/georgia-indictment-trump/daed97d37562a76f/full.pdf

#2: www.justice.gov/storage/US_v_Trump_23_cr_257.pdf

[roadtonowhere08]

20 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

Gang of Eight (immigration) - Wikipedia

@roadtonowhere08 "actions speak louder than words"

What action?

"Soon after the Senate acted, Speaker Boehner declared that the Senate bill would not be brought to the House floor because it did not have the support of the majority of House Republicans."

What might have kept it off the floor? 

This could be it: https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-real-reason-why-the-house-wont-pass-comprehensive-immigration-reform/

If the GOP wanted it to happen regardless of the political ramifications, it would have happened.  The pathway for illegals was poison for them if they wanted to face their constituents.  It was all or nothing apparently.  It died on the vine with shifting political winds.

Everyone is always looking out for themselves.

[SnarkyGoblin]

34 minutes ago, roadtonowhere08 said:

What action?

"Soon after the Senate acted, Speaker Boehner declared that the Senate bill would not be brought to the House floor because it did not have the support of the majority of House Republicans."

What might have kept it off the floor? 

This could be it: https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-real-reason-why-the-house-wont-pass-comprehensive-immigration-reform/

If the GOP wanted it to happen regardless of the political ramifications, it would have happened.  The pathway for illegals was poison for them if they wanted to face their constituents.  It was all or nothing apparently.  It died on the vine with shifting political winds.

Everyone is always looking out for themselves.

Oh I'm with you on why it failed.  I was just pointing out that saying the left has had no interest in controlling our border is a little bit disingenuous.  There have been efforts only to be shot down by the far right 

[SnarkyGoblin]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/george-w-bush-disappointed-immigration-reform-2021-4%3famp

Bush would be considered a liberal hack in these parts today.  More evidence how far the GOP has gone.

"The problem with the immigration debate is that it — one can create a lot of fear," he added. "'They're coming after you.' It's a nation that is willing to accept the refugee or the harmed or the frightened, to me is a great nation. And we are a great nation."

[SnarkyGoblin]

1 hour ago, Minny_Weather said:

Literally all these two have been doing all day is accusing anyone who disagrees with them on anything of being an extremist MAGA racist fangirl. It's annoying. It's like Happ didn't leave this forum, he just asexually reproduced and made 2 Happs.

You definitely err on the side.of trump could.do no wrong in your posts.

If Biden made all sorts of attempts to stay in power like asking governors to find votes and then riled up a crowd to get them to enter the capitol during the counting of delegates, I can honest to goodness say i would not call his impending impeachment a "sham".  Wtf do you impeach for if not for that?  Lying about getting a blowy?

[roadtonowhere08]

55 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

Oh I'm with you on why it failed.  I was just pointing out that saying the left has had no interest in controlling our border is a little bit disingenuous.  There have been efforts only to be shot down by the far right 

Not really.  If the path to citizenship part was taken out, it probably would have gone to the House floor.  But then the DNC would have thrown a fit.

Both sides have different priorities, and working together is seen as a weakness now.  Pragmatism is out.  Political purity is in.

[SnarkyGoblin]

18 minutes ago, roadtonowhere08 said:

Not really.  If the path to citizenship part was taken out, it probably would have gone to the House floor.  But then the DNC would have thrown a fit.

Both sides have different priorities, and working together is seen as a weakness now.  Pragmatism is out.  Political purity is in.

The bill itself was a compromise.   You can't properly secure your border unless you know the folks who are inside. 

And you know d@mn well the next thing on the chopping block would come up on a compromise list.  And you would say 'c'mon Dems, be a pragmatist!' and the Dems would give in.  Finally, it's a bill that looks something like this.

Quote

2005-06 — House Republicans drafted an enforcement-only bill, also known as the Sensenbrenner bill after a chief author, former Rep. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis. The bill included harsher penalties for illegal immigration and would have classified people in the U.S. illegally and anyone who helped them as felons. It also called for hundreds of miles of fencing along the U.S.-Mexico border. The harsh provisions triggered massive protests around the country, mostly by Latinos. The bill passed the House, and the Senate passed the Comprehensive Reform Act of 2006, which was backed by the Bush White House. Differences in the two bills were never reconciled.

 

[roadtonowhere08]

36 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

The bill itself was a compromise.   You can't properly secure your border unless you know the folks who are inside. 

And you know d@mn well the next thing on the chopping block would come up on a compromise list.  And you would say 'c'mon Dems, be a pragmatist!' and the Dems would give in.  Finally, it's a bill that looks something like this.

 

And I would say, eh?

I am fully aware of what the bill was and was not. 

Your original claim was "I was just pointing out that saying the left has had no interest in controlling our border is a little bit disingenuous."  And I am telling you that pushing to secure the border is definitely a GOP priority more than it is a DNC one.  That much is irrefutable.  All other aspects of this issue are definitely up for debate and discussion.

[Iceresistance]

They can't order the ceasefire since the evidence is too vague.

Top U.N. court orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, but not to cease fire (msn.com)

[SilverFallsAndrew]

14 hours ago, Iceresistance said:

Except the Rape case that supposedly happened in the 1990s is PAST the Statute of Limitations?

Yeah, that E Jean Carroll thing is completely insane. She likely made the whole the up, but found a favorable political environment to pursue her decades old claim, which she had never spoken of before. We live in a society which rewards women for being toxic. 

Edited January 26 by SilverFallsAndrew

[SilverFallsAndrew]

No border security bill has any meaning unless we immediately begin to deport the millions of criminal aliens back to their countries of origin. They have no reason to be here and we do not want them. If the federal government continues to defy Texas so that the open border can continue then we may be looking at the break up of the United States. Governor Abbott would

make a GREAT president of the NEW REPUBLIC OF TEXAS! 

Edited January 26 by SilverFallsAndrew

[SilverFallsAndrew]

Only thing cruel and unusual about this is that he was allowed to live 27 years after being convicted. Just bring back the firing squad... Not sure how credible these witnesses are though. It amazes me anyone would care. 

https://metro.co.uk/2024/01/26/kenneth-smith-death-row-nitrogen-gas-20177387/

Edited January 26 by SilverFallsAndrew

[SnarkyGoblin]

1 hour ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

No border security bill has any meaning unless we immediately begin to deport the millions of criminal aliens back to their countries of origin. They have no reason to be here and we do not want them. If the federal government continues to defy Texas so that the open border can continue then we may be looking at the break up of the United States. Governor Abbott would

make a GREAT president of the NEW REPUBLIC OF TEXAS! 

I'd buy you a one way ticket there.

[SnarkyGoblin]

8 hours ago, roadtonowhere08 said:

And I would say, eh?

I am fully aware of what the bill was and was not. 

Your original claim was "I was just pointing out that saying the left has had no interest in controlling our border is a little bit disingenuous."  And I am telling you that pushing to secure the border is definitely a GOP priority more than it is a DNC one.  That much is irrefutable.  All other aspects of this issue are definitely up for debate and discussion.

You changed mid-stream with what you said.

I agree with this.

[SilverFallsAndrew]

8 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

I'd buy you a one way ticket there.

How kind and benevolent of you! I wonder if Oklahoma would quickly agree to be annexed by the new Republic?

Edited January 26 by SilverFallsAndrew

[TT-SEA]

Not reading back through all the pages here... just wanted to say that the liberals are 100% responsible for the coming second Trump term.   The majority of us in the middle and not committed to one party or the other are pissed.   Hope you are happy putting up someone who should be in a memory care facility as the resistance to Trump.   Nice job.    What a f*cking mess.   Makes me want to see the liberals suffer for their incredible stupidity.  

[Iceresistance]

2 hours ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

No border security bill has any meaning unless we immediately begin to deport the millions of criminal aliens back to their countries of origin. They have no reason to be here and we do not want them. If the federal government continues to defy Texas so that the open border can continue then we may be looking at the break up of the United States. Governor Abbott would

make a GREAT president of the NEW REPUBLIC OF TEXAS! 

I don't want Texas to break up, that is asking for the 2nd Civil War

 

Even the group that wants to do it is against the GOP for saying "No" for Texas to be independent from the USA

[roadtonowhere08]

1 hour ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

You changed mid-stream with what you said.

I agree with this.

Fine.  I will restate:  The DNC cares about border security about this much.

Now that the pedantry is settled, I care more about the reasons why and the associated consequences than the wording of the last statement.  The DNC has some explaining to do, much like the RNC has some explaining to do regarding their half efforts and embrace of the xenophobic elements of their constituents.

[roadtonowhere08]

2 hours ago, Iceresistance said:

They can't order the ceasefire since the evidence is too vague.

Top U.N. court orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, but not to cease fire (msn.com)

They couldn't order a Big Mac at McDonalds.  Unless people are to be arrested and tried, their statements are worthless.

[SnarkyGoblin]

52 minutes ago, TT-SEA said:

Not reading back through all the pages here... just wanted to say that the liberals are 100% responsible for the coming second Trump term.   The majority of us in the middle and not committed to one party or the other are pissed.   Hope you are happy putting up someone who should be in a memory care facility as the resistance to Trump.   Nice job.    What a f*cking mess.   Makes me want to see the liberals suffer for their incredible stupidity.  

Such a ridiculous thing to say.  The dems are responsible for a xenophobic nomination of the opposing party who they didn't vote for because their candidate is old??? 

I honestly don't follow the logic.  How do you explain him winning the primary? lol  

If people can't tell how bad, mean, vindicative, dangerous, and slightly less geriatric Trump is compared to a more geriatic man who is not those other things, then that's on the voter.  

[MossMan]

Lots of Angry Elves and Goblins in here! Just stopping by to say my yearly hi to everyone! The lefties are mostly evil power hungry morons, the righties are mostly evil power hungry morons, the middles are mostly power hungry morons…We need to find that .00001% that are not morons in this whole political world and elect them! 
See you next year! 

Edited January 26 by MossMan

[roadtonowhere08]

19 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

Such a ridiculous thing to say.  The dems are responsible for a xenophobic nomination of the opposing party who they didn't vote for because their candidate is old??? 

I honestly don't follow the logic.  How do you explain him winning the primary? lol  

If people can't tell how bad, mean, vindicative, dangerous, and slightly less geriatric Trump is compared to a more geriatic man who is not those other things, then that's on the voter.  

It's quite simple:  The DNC had 4 years to find a successor to a deteriorating Biden to compete in 2024.  Anyone not an imbecile knew that Trump was gunning for another term and was going to get the nomination due to the variety of reasons discussed ad nauseum.  Biden has been incredibly weak in polls for years.  Nobody wanted round 2.  We are getting round 2.

You cannot expect the Kool Aid drinking GOP to grow a brain, but you can expect a more sane DNC to pick a better counter to Trump.  They failed miserably.

[TT-SEA]

22 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

Such a ridiculous thing to say.  The dems are responsible for a xenophobic nomination of the opposing party who they didn't vote for because their candidate is old??? 

I honestly don't follow the logic.  How do you explain him winning the primary? lol  

If people can't tell how bad, mean, vindicative, dangerous, and slightly less geriatric Trump is compared to a more geriatic man who is not those other things, then that's on the voter.  

This perfectly demonstrates the problem.   People like you on the left will be 100% to blame for a second Trump term coming.    He would not be able to win re-election with his consistent 30-35% support from the MAGA crowd UNLESS the left is stupid enough to insist on a man who truly needs to be in a nursing home.   The MAGA crowd is going be the same no matter what.   Just put up a candidate on the left who is not in serious mental decline.    That is all.   Its sooooooo f*cking simple.  But nope.   All you do is blame Trump.   This is like a parent blaming a toddler for their bad behavior.   Take charge and fix the problem.   Biden is not the answer and he will be the reason Trump wins.   Hope you enjoy 4 more years of that lunatic. 

Obviously seeing your response means you will never get it and I assume there are many more like you.   Maybe being sent to your room to pout for another 4 years will finally teach you a lesson.   But I doubt it.

[SilverFallsAndrew]

1 minute ago, TT-SEA said:

This perfectly demonstrates the problem.   People like you on the left will be 100% to blame for a second Trump term coming.    He would not be able to win re-election with his consistent 30-35% support from the MAGA crowd UNLESS the left is stupid enough to insist on a man who truly needs to be in a nursing home.   The MAGA crowd is going be the same no matter what.   Just put up a candidate on the left who is not in serious mental decline,    That is all.   Its sooooooo f*cking simple.  But nope.   All you do is blame Trump.   This is the like a parent blaming a toddler for their bad behavior.   Take charge and fix the problem.   Biden is not the answer and he will the reason Trump wins.   Hope you enjoy 4 more years of that lunatic.   

Some still believe Michelle Obama will be the eventual nominee. What suburban Karen could say no to an Obama/Harris ticket?

[roadtonowhere08]

22 minutes ago, MossMan said:

Lots of Angry Elves and Goblins in here! Just stopping by to say my yearly hi to everyone! The lefties are mostly evil power hungry morons, the righties are mostly evil power hungry morons, the middles are mostly power hungry morons…We need to find that .00001% that are not morons in this whole political world and elect them! 
See you next year!