Polite Politics

[Iceresistance]

Who keeps coming up with new words?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/abrosexual-and-greyromantic-rights-the-culture-wars-will-never-end/ar-BB1kH30r?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=0ec207ef5bce43da8821af3721f3842a&ei=11

[SilverFallsAndrew]

Wow  

Trump is messianic?! 

[SnarkyGoblin]

2 minutes ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

Wow  

Trump is messianic?! 

wtf is this?

[SilverFallsAndrew]

This dark Brandon is pretty creepy! 

[SilverFallsAndrew]

Just now, SnarkyGoblin said:

wtf is this?

Apparently the high priests of Trumpism. Medieval, I know.

[Andie]

No mention as to what the money is for? 
(Maybe Kamala’s dry cleaning for all those pant suits, or public speaking lessons, laugh control. We know the border won’t get it)

[Andie]

The Baltimore bridge was no accident.  Think about it  

 

[Andie]

On 2/26/2024 at 11:18 AM, SnarkyGoblin said:

I mean....Haley is younger, pretty conservative by sane standards, and would probably win the general election. And you essentially shat on her yesterday in a post.

That should answer your question.

Thats because she’s not right for the top job, imho. 

[Rubus Leucodermis]

On 3/28/2024 at 8:29 AM, Iceresistance said:

Who keeps coming up with new words?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/abrosexual-and-greyromantic-rights-the-culture-wars-will-never-end/ar-BB1kH30r?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=0ec207ef5bce43da8821af3721f3842a&ei=11

Ic pro efencuman, ednîwe word−cwide m¯ærnes egeslic.

[Rubus Leucodermis]

4 hours ago, Andie said:

The Baltimore bridge was no accident.  Think about it  

 

Yet none of those sources are willing to be named. Curious. Almost as if someone is making sh*t up and posting it to social media. Imagine that.

Seriously: have you ever seen a modern container ship close up? Or, better yet, been on one? Those things are massive, simply massive. Ventilation ducts the size of hallways. Jog around the outer deck once and you’ve gone over half a mile. Engines with cylinder bores four feet in diameter. And so on.

A large ship that goes off course can easily take out a bridge. Easily. In fact, it has happened more than once. Here is one example:

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/region-sarasota-manatee/skyway-bridge-collapse-remembering-the-tragedy-40-years-later

[Rubus Leucodermis]

11 minutes ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

Ic pro efencuman, ednîwe word−cwide m¯ærnes egeslic.

It’s Old English, Ice. The English language has always been changing. Neologisms are part of that change.

[Iceresistance]

Just now, Rubus Leucodermis said:

It’s Old English, Ice. The English language has always been changing. Neologisms are part of that change.

I am used to modern English and not Old English

[Iceresistance]

4 hours ago, Andie said:

The Baltimore bridge was no accident.  Think about it  

 

I think it was an accident, there is this video

 

[SilverFallsAndrew]

Yeah, I don’t think the accident was anything more. 

[Iceresistance]

12 minutes ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

Yeah, I don’t think the accident was anything more. 

If it was an attack, then why did they send out the mayday signal to MDOT to block traffic when the collision was about to happen?

[SnarkyGoblin]

5 hours ago, Andie said:

The Baltimore bridge was no accident.  Think about it  

 

Lara Logan has truly lost her way.    She used to be great on 60 Minutes.

[SilverFallsAndrew]

9 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

Lara Logan has truly lost her way.    She used to be great on 60 Minutes.

She was raped while reporting on the Arab Spring. 

[Chewbacca Defense]

10 minutes ago, Iceresistance said:

If it was an attack, then why did they send out the mayday signal to MDOT to block traffic when the collision was about to happen?

The tin foil hat wearing folks would have you thinking that the ship was subject to a cyber attack, thus the crew would be unaware of what was *really* happening, and would have just been a pawn in the game. 

 

[Iceresistance]

2 hours ago, Chewbacca Defense said:

The tin foil hat wearing folks would have you thinking that the ship was subject to a cyber attack, thus the crew would be unaware of what was *really* happening, and would have just been a pawn in the game. 

 

I mean, a cyberattack was possible but currently unlikely, but since the NTSB has the Black Box recording, we might be able to find the answers into what happened.

[Chewbacca Defense]

7 minutes ago, Iceresistance said:

I mean, a cyberattack was possible but currently unlikely, but since the NTSB has the Black Box recording, we might be able to find the answers into what happened.

Definitely a possibility, but for the claims to come out within six hours....on "TwitterX" and Andrew Tate being one of the sources....not buying it for one second.

*IF* it were a cyberattack, the Government would be keeping it under wraps as long as possible while they tried to understand who did it and how they did it, and how to prevent it again. 

If we start seeing/hearing about new security protocols being rolled out for the maritime industry, then we know something is up.

I started working in Commercial Aerospace in 2003, specifically retrofitting commercial aircraft interiors.  After 9/11, the company I work for and all of our competitors got into a very heated race to get a ballistic flight deck door to market.  Unfortunately, my company was in the process of being sold, so there was an unwillingness to front the development costs and we lost out.

I sat in a few secure briefings between 2003 and about 2008-ish where we were informed of measures the "bad guys" were trying to take to get a repeat of 2001.  Those meetings were pretty chilling.  It was all about trying to stay one step ahead of the "bad guys" as we worked on new designs for interiors.  I've never seen or heard mention of the topic of these meetings in the public domain which is pretty impressive.

I would anticipate the same thing would happen in the maritime industry.  It may be a lot trickier though, as most of the ships are registered/owned by countries with very lax regulations.  I believe the FAA can dictate regulations on foreign flag air carriers wanting to fly over US airspace (i.e. requirement for a ballistic cockpit door, maintenance and security requirements), but its a little easier in that area because basically 1/2 of the aircraft in the air are made in the US or Canada, and almost all of the other half are made by Allies/trade partners of the US. 

Not sure that is the case in the shipbuilding world.

[SilverFallsAndrew]

3 hours ago, Chewbacca Defense said:

The tin foil hat wearing folks would have you thinking that the ship was subject to a cyber attack, thus the crew would be unaware of what was *really* happening, and would have just been a pawn in the game. 

 

Doesn’t seem likely. How would they have known it would hit the bridge. It’s possible it could have just drifted through the channel even without power. That theory makes no sense to me. 

[Andie]

It has to be ruled out with a thorough investigation.  That will take time. Cant jump to ‘nothing to see here’.  
Baltimore harbor is the most important harbor on the east coast.  

We’ve pissed off a lot of people overseas.  I hope you’re right but we’re overdue. Considering an open southern border and they’ve arrested many known on the terrorist list, I’m sure many got away too.  
If not a harbor, then plenty of other important opportunities.  

[Chewbacca Defense]

43 minutes ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

Doesn’t seem likely. How would they have known it would hit the bridge. It’s possible it could have just drifted through the channel even without power. That theory makes no sense to me. 

I hate to say this, as it kinda feeds into the tin foil hat theory...  Major ports and waterways have travel lanes set up just like a road for us land dwellers.  The tides and currents are pretty well known and predictable, and that is in fact one of the reasons they require harbor pilots on the ship.  Those pilots know all of the nuances of the local waters, and they get paid insane amounts of money...they start at $73k and can easily go upwards of $200k, and in some cases up to $400k.  I'm guessing the Columbia bar pilots that handle the mouth of the Columbia River fall in the "north of $200k" pay range.

When I ran jet boats on the Willamette river, you had to take a certain line through parts of the river because of the currents, or steer in some correction to get the desired track through a cross current or up-welling.  it's no different with the big boats.  On the Washington State Ferries you can sometimes feel when you are going through a big eddy or up-welling.

Even docking a boat, a lot of times you are using power up to a certain point then cut power and drift into the dock, and if you know what you are doing, you can do it so you run out of energy right as the side of your boat is kissing the dock.

Bearing all of that in mind: Hypothetically....I think an experienced mariner could determine a point along the journey based on a time/current *could* in theory make something like this happen.

I've let my marine map/current tracking apps expire and I am no ready to start them up again, but here are some screenshots off the app store of information you can get on your smart phone.  The thick magenta line at the top of the first image is a traffic lane.  The other image is showing the currents and strength of the currents

 

[Chewbacca Defense]

25 minutes ago, Andie said:

It has to be ruled out with a thorough investigation.  That will take time. Cant jump to ‘nothing to see here’.  
Baltimore harbor is the most important harbor on the east coast.  

We’ve pissed off a lot of people overseas.  I hope you’re right but we’re overdue. Considering an open southern border and they’ve arrested many known on the terrorist list, I’m sure many got away too.  
If not a harbor, then plenty of other important opportunities.  

Absolutely, and I would be more than a little disappointed if they did not run down that line of investigation.  That said, I think the chances, while not to the level of a "black swan event", are extremely small.

Everyone working in and around the port has to have a TWIC card, which requires a TSA background check.  So, there is some level of screening for all employees in and around sea ports.  Heck, when I did my brief stint working in the refinery business, I would have been required to get a TWIC card to go on the refinery property.  It had a dock for unloading crude off of tankers, and was technically a "sea port"

 

 

[Andie]

Yeah. I co owned a small chemical processing plant and over the years the regs kept getting tighter.  It’s a must, but damned expensive.  Security got more and more expensive for us.  
 

Ports must be a nightmare to maintain compliance and security.  Then there’s always scuba though too.  I’d think that’s not easy to manage in cold currents.  
I’m so glad I’m out of that business although I loved the challenge.  

[Andie]

You know Chewy, it’s SO true what you say about the currents, etc.    I’m an old Ssil boater and you read the wind and the calm spots as well as say, the wind pouring over a large dam.   
This pilot had to know the waters.  

[SilverFallsAndrew]

If this doesn’t enrage you
 

https://thefederalist.com/2024/03/28/mom-of-boy-killed-by-illegal-border-crosser-speaks-out-his-life-was-taken-way-too-early-by-someone-who-shouldnt-be-here/

Edited March 30 by SilverFallsAndrew

[Iceresistance]

WHAT!??

Religious-themed designs banned from White House Easter egg art contest (msn.com)

[roadtonowhere08]

I gotta be honest:  The fact that anyone thinks the Baltimore bridge collapse is anything but an accident is amusing.  Same thing with the railway accidents.  Can nothing be an accident anymore?  I am seeing this conspiracy theory nonsense everywhere now. 

With as much going on as there is in terms of transportation traffic and complex logistics everywhere, it is bound to happen every now and then.  Machines malfunction.

Also, we live in a globalized economy.  If a large international U.S. port shuts down, you bet your butt that it negatively affects any business (American or foreign) importing or exporting goods from that port.

If every single thing is orchestrated by some bad actor, don't you think things would be a bit more, oh I don't know, blowy-uppy everywhere?

 

[Rubus Leucodermis]

5 hours ago, Andie said:

Baltimore harbor is the most important harbor on the east coast. 

Not even close.

This claim doesn’t pass a basic smell test. C’mon, think for a moment instead of repeating the echo chamber. Ever hear of this little place called New York City?

And indeed, the Port of New York and New Jersey dwarfs Baltimore in tonnage. Even the Port of Virginia (Norfolk/Portsmouth/Newport News) outranks Baltimore.

https://www.bts.gov/content/tonnage-top-50-us-water-ports-ranked-total-tons

What happened in Baltimore is bad, but a crippling blow it is not. It is more of an inconvenience on the big scale of things.

 

[Iceresistance]

Just now, Rubus Leucodermis said:

Not even close.

This claim doesn’t pass a basic smell test. C’mon, think for a moment instead of repeating the echo chamber. Ever hear of this little place called New York City?

And indeed, the Port of New York and New Jersey dwarfs Baltimore in tonnage. Even the Port of Virginia (Norfolk/Portsmouth/Newport News) outranks Baltimore.

https://www.bts.gov/content/tonnage-top-50-us-water-ports-ranked-total-tons

What happened in Baltimore is bad, but a crippling blow it is not. It is more of an inconvenience on the big scale of things.

 

Also Boston

[Rubus Leucodermis]

1 minute ago, Iceresistance said:

Also Boston

Surprisingly, no. Baltimore outranks it.

But Savannah also outranks Baltimore.

Go back to the post you are responding to and check that web page out.

[Chewbacca Defense]

2 hours ago, roadtonowhere08 said:

I gotta be honest:  The fact that anyone thinks the Baltimore bridge collapse is anything but an accident is amusing.  Same thing with the railway accidents.  Can nothing be an accident anymore?  I am seeing this conspiracy theory nonsense everywhere now. 

With as much going on as there is in terms of transportation traffic and complex logistics everywhere, it is bound to happen every now and then.  Machines malfunction.

Also, we live in a globalized economy.  If a large international U.S. port shuts down, you bet your butt that it negatively affects any business (American or foreign) importing or exporting goods from that port.

If every single thing is orchestrated by some bad actor, don't you think things would be a bit more, oh I don't know, blowy-uppy everywhere?

 

Your post is amusing.  We do live in a world where there are a lot of bad actors.  Granted immediately jumping to the conclusion that it has to be a bad actor is out of hand, but I think it should always be at least a part of the discussion.  Hopefully, 9.9 times out of 10 it is a 30 second to 2 minute discussion (literally) and then the subject is put to bed and investigators move on.

We of course know that terrorism is very real.  Cyber attacks are also very real.

https://www.cisa.gov/news-events/news/attack-colonial-pipeline-what-weve-learned-what-weve-done-over-past-two-years

https://www.aha.org/news/perspective/2024-02-29-supporting-hospitals-and-patients-after-cyberattack-change-healthcare

https://www.securityweek.com/canadas-rcmp-global-affairs-hit-by-cyberattacks/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-02-06/dutch-intelligence-blames-chinese-state-for-cyber-espionage-in-the-netherlands

 

Here is a fun little list for you (some of the ones above are in this list:

https://www.csis.org/programs/strategic-technologies-program/significant-cyber-incidents

I could not find anything of machinery or equipment being "hijacked" yet, but I have no doubt they are trying to figure it out.

Did you know that this is happening?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerdooley/2024/03/12/your-driving-data-may-be-sold-to-insurers-general-motors-reveals/?sh=45c7451856ef

Some automakers already download software over wifi/cellular, and I believe Telsa is a major user of that functionality.  I believe commercial aircraft can download their flight plans wirelessly. 

With that being said, please tell me how there is no risk of modes of transportation potentially being corrupted by a bad actor.

 

 

[roadtonowhere08]

2 hours ago, Chewbacca Defense said:

Your post is amusing.  We do live in a world where there are a lot of bad actors.  Granted immediately jumping to the conclusion that it has to be a bad actor is out of hand, but I think it should always be at least a part of the discussion.  Hopefully, 9.9 times out of 10 it is a 30 second to 2 minute discussion (literally) and then the subject is put to bed and investigators move on.

We of course know that terrorism is very real.  Cyber attacks are also very real.

https://www.cisa.gov/news-events/news/attack-colonial-pipeline-what-weve-learned-what-weve-done-over-past-two-years

https://www.aha.org/news/perspective/2024-02-29-supporting-hospitals-and-patients-after-cyberattack-change-healthcare

https://www.securityweek.com/canadas-rcmp-global-affairs-hit-by-cyberattacks/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-02-06/dutch-intelligence-blames-chinese-state-for-cyber-espionage-in-the-netherlands

 

Here is a fun little list for you (some of the ones above are in this list:

https://www.csis.org/programs/strategic-technologies-program/significant-cyber-incidents

I could not find anything of machinery or equipment being "hijacked" yet, but I have no doubt they are trying to figure it out.

Did you know that this is happening?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerdooley/2024/03/12/your-driving-data-may-be-sold-to-insurers-general-motors-reveals/?sh=45c7451856ef

Some automakers already download software over wifi/cellular, and I believe Telsa is a major user of that functionality.  I believe commercial aircraft can download their flight plans wirelessly. 

With that being said, please tell me how there is no risk of modes of transportation potentially being corrupted by a bad actor.

 

 

I am glad that you find my post amusing.  I do object to your insinuation that I am either downplaying or am ignorant to the fact that the transportation sector is a large target of attack.  That angle is beneath you.  I do not discount the security risks of cyber attacks obviously, and your long post outlines those risks well. 

Having said that:

- The ship had routine maintenance before leaving port.

- The power went out twice leaving the ship without ability to use its rudder.  It was most likely locked in its last position prior to losing power.

- The port anchor went into the water to try to slow down/offset the current heading.

There are concerns that 1) the ship might have had prior equipment problems and 2) there might have been contaminated fuel loaded into the tank before heading off. #1 might explain why there was maintenance before the voyage.  #2 might explain why the power went out.  Heck it could have been both #1 and #2.

Cyber attacks are generally aimed at either gathering information or directly controlling/damaging software or hardware.  There was no direct control here.  It was a power outage with a human response.  The sheer absurdity thinking someone would have the knowledge beforehand of the precise steering conditions of the channel, the precise timing of causing a blackout that would yield the desired result, the precise knowledge of the position of the rudder before the power cuts, and the knowledge/timing of the human response due to the power being cut is what I find amusing.

What are the odds of that all panning out perfectly? 

If it was an attack whereby all of that knowledge was known beforehand, why not go all out and kill a lot of Americans by doing it during rush hour with another ship?

What do you think is more likely? 

1. Hardware malfunction, lack of ship navigation redundancy, terrible timing, and a criminally exposed bridge support?

2. Mission Impossible?

Bottom line: This accident is a result of malfunction, no Plan B, and a ridiculous shipping channel with tiny tolerances for error designed in times with far smaller and less massive ships.

[roadtonowhere08]

To add to the previous post, here is an awesome video I found on Youtube.  I am obviously not a professional in any of this, but the main takeaways pretty much mirror what I was thinking: 

[Iceresistance]

9 hours ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

Surprisingly, no. Baltimore outranks it.

But Savannah also outranks Baltimore.

Go back to the post you are responding to and check that web page out.

I am not surprised that Texas is very high in that list

[Iceresistance]

7 hours ago, Chewbacca Defense said:

Your post is amusing.  We do live in a world where there are a lot of bad actors.  Granted immediately jumping to the conclusion that it has to be a bad actor is out of hand, but I think it should always be at least a part of the discussion.  Hopefully, 9.9 times out of 10 it is a 30 second to 2 minute discussion (literally) and then the subject is put to bed and investigators move on.

We of course know that terrorism is very real.  Cyber attacks are also very real.

https://www.cisa.gov/news-events/news/attack-colonial-pipeline-what-weve-learned-what-weve-done-over-past-two-years

https://www.aha.org/news/perspective/2024-02-29-supporting-hospitals-and-patients-after-cyberattack-change-healthcare

https://www.securityweek.com/canadas-rcmp-global-affairs-hit-by-cyberattacks/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-02-06/dutch-intelligence-blames-chinese-state-for-cyber-espionage-in-the-netherlands

 

Here is a fun little list for you (some of the ones above are in this list:

https://www.csis.org/programs/strategic-technologies-program/significant-cyber-incidents

I could not find anything of machinery or equipment being "hijacked" yet, but I have no doubt they are trying to figure it out.

Did you know that this is happening?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerdooley/2024/03/12/your-driving-data-may-be-sold-to-insurers-general-motors-reveals/?sh=45c7451856ef

Some automakers already download software over wifi/cellular, and I believe Telsa is a major user of that functionality.  I believe commercial aircraft can download their flight plans wirelessly. 

With that being said, please tell me how there is no risk of modes of transportation potentially being corrupted by a bad actor.

 

 

The Chinese-made EVs likely have that stuff and allow spyware

[Iceresistance]

6 hours ago, roadtonowhere08 said:

To add to the previous post, here is an awesome video I found on Youtube.  I am obviously not a professional in any of this, but the main takeaways pretty much mirror what I was thinking: 

The Black Box from the ship will allow us to see what caused that in the first place. Cameras are good indicators, but the Black Box has information that the cameras don't have.

I am still siding with a horrible accident since they tried everything they could to steer it away from the pier, but when they realized it was impossible. They knew it was going to be catastrophic, and they sent out the mayday signal to get MassDOT to block the traffic to prevent a mass causality incident.

[SilverFallsAndrew]

Christine Blasey Ford has something to say and no one cares. 

https://www.thefp.com/p/the-christine-blasey-ford-fever-dream

[SnarkyGoblin]

1 hour ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

Christine Blasey Ford has something to say and no one cares. 

https://www.thefp.com/p/the-christine-blasey-ford-fever-dream

Another wonderful post from our resident misogynist.