Polite Politics

[SnarkyGoblin]

https://wapo.st/44oDINx

I would like to thank our many years of unabated  no-compromise capitalism, and more recently, all the politicians who convinced large part of our population that climate change was fake so that their money stream continued.

Also @TT-SEA.

[roadtonowhere08]

1 hour ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

I don't think you know what that word means.

 

12 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

There are a lot of unexplained things in that post.

Which one of you is going to waste your time and explain the obvious?

[roadtonowhere08]

2 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

https://wapo.st/44oDINx

I would like to thank our many years of unabated  no-compromise capitalism, and more recently, all the politicians who convinced large part of our population that climate change was fake so that their money stream continued.

Also @TT-SEA.

Farmers Insurance pulls out of Florida, affecting 100,000 policyholders

https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/12/business/farmers-insurance-florida/index.html

Just follow the money.  It never lies.

[TT-SEA]

1 hour ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

https://wapo.st/44oDINx

I would like to thank our many years of unabated  no-compromise capitalism, and more recently, all the politicians who convinced large part of our population that climate change was fake so that their money stream continued.

Also @TT-SEA.

Silly article.   Planet on the brink!!    Its just the usual media fear mongering and some of you fall for it every time.   

[Deweydog]

57 minutes ago, TT-SEA said:

Silly article.   Planet on the brink!!    Its just the usual media fear mongering and some of you fall for it every time.   

I was hoping he posted it as a refreshing bit self-deprecating humor. We all need to poke a little fun at our personas once in a while.

[SnarkyGoblin]

8 hours ago, TT-SEA said:

Silly article.   Planet on the brink!!    Its just the usual media fear mongering and some of you fall for it every time.   

Ok Mr I know more than 99% of climate scientist.  Whatever you say.

You do know there's more to this planet than Hawaiian Resorts, North Bend, and yacht clubs, right?

[TT-SEA]

12 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

Ok Mr I know more than 99% of climate scientist.  Whatever you say.

You do know there's more to this planet than Hawaiian Resorts, North Bend, and yacht clubs, right?

I know that the planet is not on the brink from heat.  In fact we are well below the climate optimimum.  There were tropical forests in the polar regions and life was thriving.   

[SnarkyGoblin]

5 minutes ago, TT-SEA said:

I know that the planet is not on the brink from heat.  In fact we are well below the climate optimimum.  There were tropical forests in the polar regions and life was thriving.   

It's too bad there weren't humans even living on this planet during most of this graph.  And it also fails to represent the rate at which temperatures change at any sort of meaningful scale we're talking about.  But the colors are pretty I guess.

So honest question - are you disputing the fact we're warning abnormally or are you disputing the fact that a 2.5 degrees C increase will in fact not be that big of a deal?  

[Rubus Leucodermis]

14 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

It's too bad there weren't humans even living on this planet during most of this graph.  And it also fails to represent the rate at which temperatures change at any sort of meaningful scale we're talking about.  But the colors are pretty I guess.

So honest question - are you disputing the fact we're warning abnormally or are you disputing the fact that a 2.5 degrees C increase will in fact not be that big of a deal?  

As George Carlin once observed, “save the planet” is something of a stupid phrase; the PLANET will be OK, but what about US?

 

[Rubus Leucodermis]

Democratic backsliding continues in Guatemala, with courts barring multiple candidates from the presidential election in questionable decisions.

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/guatemala-orders-suspension-presidential-candidate-arevalos-party-2023-07-12/

[TT-SEA]

17 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

It's too bad there weren't humans even living on this planet during most of this graph.  And it also fails to represent the rate at which temperatures change at any sort of meaningful scale we're talking about.  But the colors are pretty I guess.

So honest question - are you disputing the fact we're warning abnormally or are you disputing the fact that a 2.5 degrees C increase will in fact not be that big of a deal?  

We wouldn't be here without hundreds of millions of years of a much warmer Earth allowing life to thrive.  

Also part of the warming over the last 150 years is part of a natural cycle coming out of the LIA.   And obviously some is human caused as well.   But the Earth would be warming right now even without us... relative to the cold LIA period which was also natural.

[TT-SEA]

5 minutes ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

As George Carlin once observed, “save the planet” is something of a stupid phrase; the PLANET will be OK, but what about US?

 

There will be more extinction level events... and ice ages... and volcanic nuclear winter.    Its all happened before and will happen again.

[SnarkyGoblin]

1 minute ago, TT-SEA said:

We wouldn't be here without hundreds of millions of years of a much warmer Earth allowing life to thrive.  

That doesn't answer my question....

Life, especially human life - the one we care about most - is MUCH different 100 million years ago than it is today.  Were people in the desert watering crops for their food back then?

It's completely meaningless to point that out.

I suggest watching this to educate yourself:

https://www.netflix.com/title/80216393

[TT-SEA]

15 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

That doesn't answer my question....

Life, especially human life - the one we care about most - is MUCH different 100 million years ago than it is today.  Were people in the desert watering crops for their food back then?

It's completely meaningless to point that out.

I suggest watching this to educate yourself:

https://www.netflix.com/title/80216393

I have watched all of those Attenborough series.   And humans will adapt.    We certainly aren't destroying the planet.   

Carbon dioxide is very slow to erode.   Regardless of what we do now it will continue to warm through our lifetime.    Unless of course we have a major volcanic event which is inevitable eventually.   That doesn't mean we should not strive to improve though.   There is no sense in living in a dirty house.  

This dramatic guilt trip in the media about turning everything around immediately is absolutely silly because all humans living now will be dead before that even starts to happen.   Even if all emissions stopped now the Earth would still be on a warming path.   But future generations will probably develop technology to allow us to modulate the climate better.  

[Jim Tezeta]

On 7/12/2023 at 6:10 AM, Andie said:

I really enjoyed this post.  
As a long time married folk I have to say i was charmed by the term ‘pleasing’.  
Haven’t been pleased in the sense you mentioned in a long time. Marriage is more work than many realize.
That said, I squeeze my time in early and late usually.
Keep the pleasing part. I’m thoroughly charmed.

It’s easy to please a woman when you’re both madly in love 

[TT-SEA]

https://royalsociety.org/topics-policy/projects/climate-change-evidence-causes/question-20/#:~:text=If emissions of CO2,ultimate burial in ocean sediments.

[Eugene-5SW]

1 hour ago, TT-SEA said:

https://royalsociety.org/topics-policy/projects/climate-change-evidence-causes/question-20/#:~:text=If emissions of CO2,ultimate burial in ocean sediments.

I’ve always thought this was intuitively obvious, but I’ve had a hard time finding any literature in support of it. In fact, this is the first piece I’ve seen. Maybe I just don’t know where to look.

My guess is that many climate scientists agree with this, but feel constrained by the environment of extreme political polarization to go along with the “doomer” scenario. Any attempt to introduce nuance into the discussion would get them branded as “deniers,” with all the “hoax”  implications that go with it. That would be even more scientifically indefensible and unpalatable than backing the “doomers.”  

I’ve said it before, but it’s tragic that climate science has become such a political football since it discourages objective truth-seeking. That’s why I really don’t understand people like Cliff Mass who devote their energies to jeering and throwing brickbats at the “doomers”  — hypocritically using many of the same tactics of exaggeration, misdirection, and cherry-picking of stats that the “doomers” do, I might add — instead of utilizing their considerable resources and expertise to do good science and attempt to enlighten.

[Rubus Leucodermis]

2 hours ago, TT-SEA said:

I have watched all of those Attenborough series.   And humans will adapt.    We certainly aren't destroying the planet.

I’m not 100% sure of that, given how clear it is that our insane society is clearly incapable of making changes to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. 5 to 10°C total warming seems all but certain, and the start of the earth at that point will be so dramatically different that it is not certain that humans will still be around. That said, my money is on at least some surviving in such the conditions.

What is more certain, is that our civilization will not be around. Life will be nasty, brutish, and short (in ways that it wasn’t even during the Stone Ages, since then at least the ecosystem was intact). Think leaking chemical and radioactive waste dumps (leaking since there is no advanced technological civilization to maintain them anymore).

[Deweydog]

2 hours ago, TT-SEA said:

I have watched all of those Attenborough series.   And humans will adapt.    We certainly aren't destroying the planet.   

Carbon dioxide is very slow to erode.   Regardless of what we do now it will continue to warm through our lifetime.    Unless of course we have a major volcanic event which is inevitable eventually.   That doesn't mean we should not strive to improve though.   There is no sense in living in a dirty house.  

This dramatic guilt trip in the media about turning everything around immediately is absolutely silly because all humans living now will be dead before that even starts to happen.   Even if all emissions stopped now the Earth would still be on a warming path.   But future generations will probably develop technology to allow us to modulate the climate better.  

Boooooo!

I need to leverage this debate RIGHT NOW so my fictitious “team” can win the day! You’re ruining it!

[SnarkyGoblin]

15 minutes ago, Deweydog said:

Boooooo!

I need to leverage this debate RIGHT NOW so my fictitious “team” can win the day! You’re ruining it!

I find it odd that the person who brings up nuclear Armageddon (!!!) as a reason to not care about climate change is the person who gets most defended on here.  No less on a weather forum.

[SnarkyGoblin]

53 minutes ago, Eugene-5SW said:

I’ve always thought this was intuitively obvious, but I’ve had a hard time finding any literature in support of it. In fact, this is the first piece I’ve seen. Maybe I just don’t know where to look.

My guess is that many climate scientists agree with this, but feel constrained by the environment of extreme political polarization to go along with the “doomer” scenario. Any attempt to introduce nuance into the discussion would get them branded as “deniers,” with all the “hoax”  implications that go with it. That would be even more scientifically indefensible and unpalatable than backing the “doomers.”  

I’ve said it before, but it’s tragic that climate science has become such a political football since it discourages objective truth-seeking. That’s why I really don’t understand people like Cliff Mass who devote their energies to jeering and throwing brickbats at the “doomers”  — hypocritically using many of the same tactics of exaggeration, misdirection, and cherry-picking of stats that the “doomers” do, I might add — instead of utilizing their considerable resources and expertise to do good science and attempt to enlighten.

The article I originally linked talked about how the ocean is much slower at conducting heat than air is.  There's no disputing that.

[SnarkyGoblin]

2 hours ago, TT-SEA said:

https://royalsociety.org/topics-policy/projects/climate-change-evidence-causes/question-20/#:~:text=If emissions of CO2,ultimate burial in ocean sediments.

What point are you trying to make here?  Read the last sentence of this.  Do you agree?

[SnarkyGoblin]

26 minutes ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

I’m not 100% sure of that, given how clear it is that our insane society is clearly incapable of making changes to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. 5 to 10°C total warming seems all but certain, and the start of the earth at that point will be so dramatically different that it is not certain that humans will still be around. That said, my money is on at least some surviving in such the conditions.

What is more certain, is that our civilization will not be around. Life will be nasty, brutish, and short (in ways that it wasn’t even during the Stone Ages, since then at least the ecosystem was intact). Think leaking chemical and radioactive waste dumps (leaking since there is no advanced technological civilization to maintain them anymore).

Exactly.  Literally no one is saying life is going to cease to exist on earth which Mr Strawman Tim seems to think everyone else thinks.

But since there might be a volcano that erupts causing nuclear winter 50,000 years from now, everything I read about climate change is FAKE NEWS.

Good god.

[Deweydog]

The climate debate is a true exercise in human vanity. Every generation has a tendency to overestimate its importance on a grand time scale. Existentialism taken to the extreme which on a climate level is leading to despair for some as they actually believe they personally responsible for what are essentially unsolvable problems in the short term.

We’re at a stage where our options are limited. Alternatives to fossil fuels are still heavily bent on consumption and are clever end arounds which lead to what will remain a game of whack a mole for some time to come. We will likely get there (whatever “there” actually is) but me and kids and their kids will likely be worm food by the time that time occurs.

It’s an important issue and needs to be addressed but again, the political push/pull and that pesky vanity issue makes for so much distortion and distraction. Imagine that…

Edited July 13, 2023 by Deweydog

[TT-SEA]

23 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

Exactly.  Literally no one is saying life is going to cease to exist on earth which Mr Strawman Tim seems to think everyone else thinks.

But since there might be a volcano that erupts causing nuclear winter 50,000 years from now, everything I read about climate change is FAKE NEWS.

Good god.

Planet on the brink!!   

You are the one who brought me into this discussion with your silly media hype article.   Like I am somehow to blame for the last 10,000 years of human development or that I should spend the rest of my life wallowing in guilt over humankind's shortcomings.   Its not in my control.  

[TT-SEA]

The Washington Post sure knows how to feed into liberal guilt though.   Hyping everything that happens with the weather as being the end of the planet.   

[SnarkyGoblin]

23 minutes ago, TT-SEA said:

The Washington Post sure knows how to feed into liberal guilt though.   Hyping everything that happens with the weather as being the end of the planet.   

Would your response have changed if I linked research articles instead?  Would you not have blown it off as wrong?

All signs point to you not giving a f*ck about anyone but yourself.  So I very much doubt it.

[SnarkyGoblin]

58 minutes ago, TT-SEA said:

Planet on the brink!!   

You are the one who brought me into this discussion with your silly media hype article.   Like I am somehow to blame for the last 10,000 years of human development or that I should spend the rest of my life wallowing in guilt over humankind's shortcomings.   Its not in my control.  

I brought you in because I have a memory ingrained in my head when I first joined this forum.  I thought you were level-headed, respected science and models, and that you didn't deserve the sh*t people were giving you in the PNW threads.  

Then I read what you wrote on climate change. 

I didn't force you to respond. 

[TT-SEA]

25 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

Would your response have changed if I linked research articles instead?  Would you not have blown it off as wrong?

All signs point to you not giving a f*ck about anyone but yourself.  So I very much doubt it.

This is just deflection and projection.   You don't know me.   But this a perfect example of how we got to this polarized situation.   As if angrily lashing out will solve anything.  It just makes it worse.   We are all in this together.  

You are just looking for a fight to soothe your angst and guilt.  This is the "Karen" behavior that has become so popular.   Forced moral outrage doesn't work. 

[Iceresistance]

1 hour ago, TT-SEA said:

This is just deflection and projection.   You don't know me.   But this a perfect example of how we got to this polarized situation.   As if angrily lashing out will solve anything.  It just makes it worse.   We are all in this together.  

You are just looking for a fight to soothe your angst and guilt.  This is the "Karen" behavior that has become so popular.   Forced moral outrage doesn't work. 

Also factor environmental terrorists vandalizing everything.

[Anti Marine Layer]

7 deadly sins of leftism

1. lack of LGBQT pride
2. capitalism/greed
3. climate change denialism
4. vaccine refusal/hesitancy
5. privilege of any kind
6. racism
7. white supremacy

[Chewbacca Defense]

24 minutes ago, Anti Marine Layer said:

7 deadly sins of the left

1. lack of LGBQT pride
2. capitalism/greed
3. climate change denialism
4. vaccine refusal/hesitancy
5. privilege of any kind
6. racism
7. white supremacy

I see at least 2-3 if not 4 items on your list that should be a deadly sin for everyone, the reality is they are not, which is a real shame.

[BLI snowman]

2 hours ago, TT-SEA said:

This is just deflection and projection.   You don't know me.   But this a perfect example of how we got to this polarized situation.   As if angrily lashing out will solve anything.  It just makes it worse.   We are all in this together.  

You are just looking for a fight to soothe your angst and guilt.  This is the "Karen" behavior that has become so popular.   Forced moral outrage doesn't work. 

Dude, the fact that you're not out there replanting and pooping in some Hummer's gas tank right now says a lot about you. I'm going to be so disappointed in you if you even respond to this.

[Stormy]

Mika B. made me laugh.

 

[SnarkyGoblin]

3 hours ago, TT-SEA said:

This is just deflection and projection.   You don't know me.   But this a perfect example of how we got to this polarized situation.   As if angrily lashing out will solve anything.  It just makes it worse.   We are all in this together.  

You are just looking for a fight to soothe your angst and guilt.  This is the "Karen" behavior that has become so popular.   Forced moral outrage doesn't work. 

Please don't accuse me of deflecting when you can't even answer simple questions on here.

To summarize your thoughts on this:

"Media is crazy saying inaccurate things"

"Why should we care? We aren't affecting the climate"

"We're going to have a nuclear winter from volcanoes anyway"

"We're all in this together" (I agree but a confusing thing to say given what else you said)

I have no angst and I have no guilt.  I was just looking to understand the logic from your original response with my follow-up questions but apparently that was too optimistic.

Finally, if you thought I was blaming you for climate change in my first inside-my-head post/joke, then I'm sorry for the misunderstanding cause apparently that's how other people interpreted it.  As I said, you effectively denying human-caused climate change those few years ago really struck me as wild so I tagged you in a post about climate change.  Plus I hadn't seen you on this thread for a while.

[TT-SEA]

18 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

Please don't accuse me of deflecting when you can't even answer simple questions on here.

To summarize your thoughts on this:

"Media is crazy saying inaccurate things"

"Why should we care? We aren't affecting the climate"

"We're going to have a nuclear winter from volcanoes anyway"

"We're all in this together" (I agree but a confusing thing to say given what else you said)

I have no angst and I have no guilt.  I was just looking to understand the logic from your original response with my follow-up questions but apparently that was too optimistic.

Finally, if you thought I was blaming you for climate change in my first inside-my-head post/joke, then I'm sorry for the misunderstanding cause apparently that's how other people interpreted it.  As I said, you effectively denying human-caused climate change those few years ago really struck me as wild so I tagged you in a post about climate change.  Plus I hadn't seen you on this thread for a while.

There is no doubt that humans are influencing the climate and partially to blame for the warming.    I have never denied that.   But it is worth qualifying that reality with the simple fact that the Earth is also rebounding from the LIA.  Glaciers would be retreating and the climate would be warming at this point even without humans.   That is not denial... that is a nuanced discussion that seems impossible to have with the "hair on fire" far left folks.   You basically attacked me with your BS about not "giving a f*ck about anyone else" and that comes across as Karen-level screeching to me.   Own it.  

[Anti Marine Layer]

This has always been my favorite one

50 Years of Failed Doomsday, Eco-pocalyptic Predictions; the So-called ‘experts’ Are 0-50

But it wouldn't be considered a credible source to @SnarkyGoblin

I don't deny human-caused climate change.

However, the alarmism is doing more damage than good and is certain to be met with resistance from the right. Nobody wants to be forced to buy electric cars and stop eating meat and block out the sun even if it does save the world. Some food like New York pizza just won't be the same without coal ovens. 

Also the poor/marginalized that the left always pretends to care about would be negatively affected by ending fossil fuels because they depend on them for life. They cannot afford the more expensive stuff. More poverty and more systemic racism would result.

If these people were really so worried, such as Obama, who has his house in Martha's Vineyard they'd move inland.

Also some on the religious right believe in increasing natural disasters in the end times, as prophesied in the Bible. It could be caused by fossil fuels, who knows. But they also believe one day the world will be destroyed at the apocalypse, regardless of what we do, and therefore they don't worry about the effects climate change 145 billion years into the future.

 

[SnarkyGoblin]

2 hours ago, TT-SEA said:

There is no doubt that humans are influencing the climate and partially to blame for the warming.    I have never denied that.   But it is worth qualifying that reality with the simple fact that the Earth is also rebounding from the LIA.  Glaciers would be retreating and the climate would be warming at this point even without humans.   That is not denial... that is a nuanced discussion that seems impossible to have with the "hair on fire" far left folks.   You basically attacked me with your BS about not "giving a f*ck about anyone else" and that comes across as Karen-level screeching to me.   Own it.  

Maybe I went a little too far with that but you do not strike me as a compassionate person given all you said in the Seattle threads.

I'd love to talk more about AGW but I'm pretty sure every response is going to be "that's hysteria" despite all of the evidence to the contrary.

[Andie]

10 hours ago, Jim Tezeta said:

It’s easy to please a woman when you’re both madly in love 

Fair statement.  
But the course of true love…(where have I heard that?)….has its bumps along the roadway  We’re all human.   

I’ve always been easy going and happy to just have a roof and a meal. My husband’s that way too as we’ve both seen very difficult times.  

But true selfless love is made happy through the simplest and selfless actions.  It really boils down to the heart - not the ego.  
 

 

 

[Rubus Leucodermis]

It’s the widespread complacency and apathy, more than anything, that convinces me that our industrial civilization is f*cked.