Polite Politics

[Rubus Leucodermis]

22 minutes ago, Anti Marine Layer said:

Need a hot reaction. 

And a smoke reaction.

[MossMan]

39 minutes ago, Anti Marine Layer said:

Need a hot reaction. 

[Andie]

1 hour ago, Anti Marine Layer said:

Need a hot reaction. 

Just trying to lighten the mood!

[SnarkyGoblin]

Lol

Veteran GOP political strategist Jeff Timmer described Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis as the “worst” presidential candidate he has ever seen.

Said Timmer: “It’s like he’s been assembled from the discarded spare parts of Bobby Jindal, Bill deBlasio, Rick Perry, and Scott Walker.

[roadtonowhere08]

3 hours ago, Anti Marine Layer said:

Need a hot reaction. 

Ask and ye shall receive:

[Anti Marine Layer]

Newsom wasn't too happy about today's Supreme Court decision and said funny things. 

  

 

He got back some funny responses 

[Rubus Leucodermis]

[Anti Marine Layer]

7 hours ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

If the college admissions are racist against black students, the white guy should not need the ladder to help him get in.

Also, maybe the other ladder doesn't belong to the white guy, so the black guy could use it after the white guy leaves.

 

[Rubus Leucodermis]

37 minutes ago, Anti Marine Layer said:

If the college admissions are racist against black students, the white guy should not need the later to help him get in.

Also, maybe the other ladder doesn't belong to the white guy, so the black guy could use it after the white guy leaves.

WHOOSH!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_preferences

[Iceresistance]

6 hours ago, Anti Marine Layer said:

Newsom wasn't too happy about today's Supreme Court decision and said funny things. 

  

 

He got back some funny responses 

I knew that affirmative action was going away, Racist colleges turned this into a weapon.

[Anti Marine Layer]

8 hours ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

WHOOSH!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_preferences

OK, they should stop doing that, but we would need a separate ruling for it.

However, affirmative action does not solve the problem of legacy admissions and it can also lead to people who are not qualified getting into college and then finding it too difficult, or feeling they do not really belong there. 

Sports scholarships can be pretty stupid too, and you could say they are unfair to non-athletic students. 

[Rubus Leucodermis]

8 minutes ago, Anti Marine Layer said:

OK, they should stop doing that, but we would need a separate ruling for that.

Let's just say that I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it, particularly with the current configuration of the Supreme Court.

My point is, we have preferences for inherited wealth and privilege, and nobody really talks about them anywhere near as much as racial preferences (witness how you were apparently unaware of them until this discussion). It’s almost as if the goal isn’t really meritocracy at all, but to come up with random justifications for attacking any policy aimed at undoing the legacy of racism.

I’d be a lot more open to the concept of getting rid of affirmative action if it was part of an integrated effort to promote meritocracy and overall fairness.

[Iceresistance]

4 hours ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

Let's just say that I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it, particularly with the current configuration of the Supreme Court.

My point is, we have preferences for inherited wealth and privilege, and nobody really talks about them anywhere near as much as racial preferences (witness how you were apparently unaware of them until this discussion). It’s almost as if the goal isn’t really meritocracy at all, but to come up with random justifications for attacking any policy aimed at undoing the legacy of racism.

I’d be a lot more open to the concept of getting rid of affirmative action if it was part of an integrated effort to promote meritocracy and overall fairness.

Affirmative Action was originally implemented to help Black people get into college, but it was weaponized.

[Iceresistance]

France is doing like what the BLM Rioters did in the USA 

 

A 17 y/o died because he was shot for not complying with the police

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/protests-in-france-hundreds-arrests-third-night-fatal-police-shooting-nahel-nanterre/

[Iceresistance]

The Biden Student Loans thing got struck down by SCOTUS.

[Chewbacca Defense]

8 minutes ago, Iceresistance said:

The Biden Student Loans thing got struck down by SCOTUS.

At least we still have corporate welfare/loan forgiveness 

[Rubus Leucodermis]

1 hour ago, Iceresistance said:

France is doing like what the BLM Rioters did in the USA

In France, as in the USA, excessive use of force by the police, coupled with lying by the police, and a general lack of accountability, seems to be an effective formula for creating not law and order but lawlessness and disorder.

What is curious is that the same conservatives who profess such concern about the use of government force seem to often have so little concern about it all when the government force is applied to those not like them.

[Rubus Leucodermis]

1 hour ago, Iceresistance said:

Affirmative Action was originally implemented to help Black people get into college, but it was weaponized.

How so? Explain.

[Iceresistance]

35 minutes ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

How so? Explain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action

[roadtonowhere08]

4 hours ago, Iceresistance said:

The Biden Student Loans thing got struck down by SCOTUS.

 

4 hours ago, Chewbacca Defense said:

At least we still have corporate welfare/loan forgiveness 

Neither should be a thing.  It just encourages "gimmie gimmie gimmie!"

[roadtonowhere08]

2 hours ago, Iceresistance said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action

That's up there with https://gprivate.com/65l8q 

 

[Iceresistance]

12 hours ago, roadtonowhere08 said:

That's up there with https://gprivate.com/65l8q 

 

That is what I did and found that link!

[SnarkyGoblin]

16 hours ago, Iceresistance said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action

Yeah this doesn't say how it was "weaponized".

That's a bold claim I suspect you have nothing to back it up with.

[SnarkyGoblin]

19 hours ago, Iceresistance said:

France is doing like what the BLM Rioters did in the USA 

 

A 17 y/o died because he was shot for not complying with the police

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/protests-in-france-hundreds-arrests-third-night-fatal-police-shooting-nahel-nanterre/

Not complying with police is NOT a reason to get shot. And if you think it is, then WTF is wrong with you?

Good God.

[Anti Marine Layer]

4 hours ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

Not complying with police is NOT a reason to get shot. And if you think it is, then WTF is wrong with you?

Good God.

That depends on whether the guy has a weapon or not and tries to use it, but in this case it looks like he did not.

But where did he say it was justified that he got shot for not complying with the police?

[Timmy Supercell]

I have a hard time getting how that shooting went down exactly. The articles talk too much about the riots and I'd probably need to see a video.

Obviously someone just standing there and doing nothing doesn't deserve to get shot.. but I do still remember Rayshard Brooks and how that incident happened. Don't follow that guys example.

[Anti Marine Layer]

Also if the guy wanted to drive away and start a California style police chase, they could have shot his tires or something.

[Iceresistance]

3 hours ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

Not complying with police is NOT a reason to get shot. And if you think it is, then WTF is wrong with you?

Good God.

I didn't come up with that statement, a lot of people are saying that.

[Iceresistance]

3 hours ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

Yeah this doesn't say how it was "weaponized".

That's a bold claim I suspect you have nothing to back it up with.

Colleges have used this to prevent some people from going in because of their skin color. Favoured everyone except those with light-skinned color.

[roadtonowhere08]

4 hours ago, Anti Marine Layer said:

Also if the guy wanted to drive away and start a California style police chase, they could have shot his tires or something.

He would not get far in Paris traffic.  Good lord it is bad.

[roadtonowhere08]

4 hours ago, Timmy Supercell said:

I have a hard time getting how that shooting went down exactly. The articles talk too much about the riots and I'd probably need to see a video.

Obviously someone just standing there and doing nothing doesn't deserve to get shot.. but I do still remember Rayshard Brooks and how that incident happened. Don't follow that guys example.

I saw a very short clip.  Cop had gun pointed right on him.  He drove away and the cop shot him right as he was speeding off.  Driver crashed right after.  Looks bad.

Dunno what lead up to that.

Found new video: https://news.sky.com/video/france-riots-passenger-of-17-year-old-shot-dead-by-police-during-traffic-stop-releases-audio-message-12912858

Looks real bad for the cops.

[Andie]

23 hours ago, Iceresistance said:

The Biden Student Loans thing got struck down by SCOTUS.

I worked my way through 2 degrees. I don’t get how so many students think the money should be handed out and forgiven.   
In a lot of ways I learned as much or more working than the studies.  A part of me believes that college students should have to hold down a part time job. Especially for a business degree. 

[Chewbacca Defense]

8 hours ago, Andie said:

I worked my way through 2 degrees. I don’t get how so many students think the money should be handed out and forgiven.   
In a lot of ways I learned as much or more working than the studies.  A part of me believes that college students should have to hold down a part time job. Especially for a business degree. 

Easy for you to say, it's not enough anymore.  They are told they have to get a degree to be successful in life, but the costs.....Have you looked at the cost of university lately?  How much did a quarter/semester cost when YOU went to college?  I went in the early 90's, and I think it was about $700-800 a quarter, so that would work out to $2,100-$2,400 per year...$8-9k  for a 4 year degree?  I paid $200 a month to live by myself in a 1 bedroom duplex.  4 years of that, is $9k or so, call it $10-11k to take into account rent increases.  So, it would have cost about $20k for a 4 year degree.  Out of state was about $40-50k for a 4 year degree (room and board, public university).

My son finished his degree last year, and even though he was technically out of state, he paid in-state tuition. 

His tuition was about $8k per year.  By comparison, the University of Georgia, where I attempted to go to college (failed out) it now costs $10k per year.  For the university in the town I live in now, $7.8k per year.  These are all in state tuition numbers, all are public universities, and do not even include housing, food, books etc. 

There is $30-40k in tuition ALONE.  He lived in the dorm his first year, and moved out into an apartment after that, as it was cheaper.  He paid about  $700 a month for rent and utilities, which works out to about $8.4k for rent & utilities per year.  At least $33k for 4 years of room and board.  Add that to tuition and you get $60-70k in total? 

He worked part time all throughout school.  He started out working at the dining hall, then was a cook at a retirement home.  He was also a tutor, and that carried him through Covid.  along with some paid research and T.A. work.  After Covid he landed a job at a restaurant and became kitchen supervisor.  He worked full time in the summers.  He also played in the marching band all 4 years earning $2,000-$2,500 per year in band scholarships.  We sent him $200/month for food.  He also got money from grandparents ($8-10k in total).

Even after all of that, he STILL ended up with $28k in student loan debt.

My son owns this debt, he knows he has to pay it back, and while he does not expect any handouts, he also would have very much appreciated having 1/3 of it being knocked off.

$28k.....that's a new car....nothing super fancy, but that's a new car.

That's also a down payment on a house. 

[Iceresistance]

It is confirmed that Biden does wants dim the Sun...

https://www.foxnews.com/media/white-house-report-signals-openness-manipulating-sunlight-prevent-climate-change

[Andie]

11 hours ago, Chewbacca Defense said:

Easy for you to say, it's not enough anymore.  They are told they have to get a degree to be successful in life, but the costs.....Have you looked at the cost of university lately?  How much did a quarter/semester cost when YOU went to college?  I went in the early 90's, and I think it was about $700-800 a quarter, so that would work out to $2,100-$2,400 per year...$8-9k  for a 4 year degree?  I paid $200 a month to live by myself in a 1 bedroom duplex.  4 years of that, is $9k or so, call it $10-11k to take into account rent increases.  So, it would have cost about $20k for a 4 year degree.  Out of state was about $40-50k for a 4 year degree (room and board, public university).

My son finished his degree last year, and even though he was technically out of state, he paid in-state tuition. 

His tuition was about $8k per year.  By comparison, the University of Georgia, where I attempted to go to college (failed out) it now costs $10k per year.  For the university in the town I live in now, $7.8k per year.  These are all in state tuition numbers, all are public universities, and do not even include housing, food, books etc. 

There is $30-40k in tuition ALONE.  He lived in the dorm his first year, and moved out into an apartment after that, as it was cheaper.  He paid about  $700 a month for rent and utilities, which works out to about $8.4k for rent & utilities per year.  At least $33k for 4 years of room and board.  Add that to tuition and you get $60-70k in total? 

He worked part time all throughout school.  He started out working at the dining hall, then was a cook at a retirement home.  He was also a tutor, and that carried him through Covid.  along with some paid research and T.A. work.  After Covid he landed a job at a restaurant and became kitchen supervisor.  He worked full time in the summers.  He also played in the marching band all 4 years earning $2,000-$2,500 per year in band scholarships.  We sent him $200/month for food.  He also got money from grandparents ($8-10k in total).

Even after all of that, he STILL ended up with $28k in student loan debt.

My son owns this debt, he knows he has to pay it back, and while he does not expect any handouts, he also would have very much appreciated having 1/3 of it being knocked off.

$28k.....that's a new car....nothing super fancy, but that's a new car.

That's also a down payment on a house. 

Cost HAVE gotten out of hand.  Education or technical training are expensive.  I think if I could do it over I’d go with technical training.  A 4 year degree is not as useful today unless you’re a public school teacher or going on to a masters.  
If I were male I’d go for a journeyman electrician. Having had some repairs lately I’d say oh yes!
Edit:  I should add interest rates are on their way up.  Inflation is here. Curiously it reminds me of the Carter days when costs rose and we had a fuel shortage.  While no fuel shortage, fuel and food are certainly going up due to inflation certainly noticeable by the end of the year.  

[Anti Marine Layer]

14 hours ago, Chewbacca Defense said:

Easy for you to say, it's not enough anymore.  They are told they have to get a degree to be successful in life, but the costs.....Have you looked at the cost of university lately?  How much did a quarter/semester cost when YOU went to college?  I went in the early 90's, and I think it was about $700-800 a quarter, so that would work out to $2,100-$2,400 per year...$8-9k  for a 4 year degree?  I paid $200 a month to live by myself in a 1 bedroom duplex.  4 years of that, is $9k or so, call it $10-11k to take into account rent increases.  So, it would have cost about $20k for a 4 year degree.  Out of state was about $40-50k for a 4 year degree (room and board, public university).

My son finished his degree last year, and even though he was technically out of state, he paid in-state tuition. 

His tuition was about $8k per year.  By comparison, the University of Georgia, where I attempted to go to college (failed out) it now costs $10k per year.  For the university in the town I live in now, $7.8k per year.  These are all in state tuition numbers, all are public universities, and do not even include housing, food, books etc. 

There is $30-40k in tuition ALONE.  He lived in the dorm his first year, and moved out into an apartment after that, as it was cheaper.  He paid about  $700 a month for rent and utilities, which works out to about $8.4k for rent & utilities per year.  At least $33k for 4 years of room and board.  Add that to tuition and you get $60-70k in total? 

He worked part time all throughout school.  He started out working at the dining hall, then was a cook at a retirement home.  He was also a tutor, and that carried him through Covid.  along with some paid research and T.A. work.  After Covid he landed a job at a restaurant and became kitchen supervisor.  He worked full time in the summers.  He also played in the marching band all 4 years earning $2,000-$2,500 per year in band scholarships.  We sent him $200/month for food.  He also got money from grandparents ($8-10k in total).

Even after all of that, he STILL ended up with $28k in student loan debt.

My son owns this debt, he knows he has to pay it back, and while he does not expect any handouts, he also would have very much appreciated having 1/3 of it being knocked off.

$28k.....that's a new car....nothing super fancy, but that's a new car.

That's also a down payment on a house. 

When I was in college in 1997-2001 at Chapman University, about half of my tuition was paid for by a Provost scholarship and the other half was paid for by California Department of Disabilities because I have asperger's and epilepsy. Lucky me.

[SnarkyGoblin]

16 hours ago, Chewbacca Defense said:

Easy for you to say, it's not enough anymore.  They are told they have to get a degree to be successful in life, but the costs.....Have you looked at the cost of university lately?  How much did a quarter/semester cost when YOU went to college?  I went in the early 90's, and I think it was about $700-800 a quarter, so that would work out to $2,100-$2,400 per year...$8-9k  for a 4 year degree?  I paid $200 a month to live by myself in a 1 bedroom duplex.  4 years of that, is $9k or so, call it $10-11k to take into account rent increases.  So, it would have cost about $20k for a 4 year degree.  Out of state was about $40-50k for a 4 year degree (room and board, public university).

My son finished his degree last year, and even though he was technically out of state, he paid in-state tuition. 

His tuition was about $8k per year.  By comparison, the University of Georgia, where I attempted to go to college (failed out) it now costs $10k per year.  For the university in the town I live in now, $7.8k per year.  These are all in state tuition numbers, all are public universities, and do not even include housing, food, books etc. 

There is $30-40k in tuition ALONE.  He lived in the dorm his first year, and moved out into an apartment after that, as it was cheaper.  He paid about  $700 a month for rent and utilities, which works out to about $8.4k for rent & utilities per year.  At least $33k for 4 years of room and board.  Add that to tuition and you get $60-70k in total? 

He worked part time all throughout school.  He started out working at the dining hall, then was a cook at a retirement home.  He was also a tutor, and that carried him through Covid.  along with some paid research and T.A. work.  After Covid he landed a job at a restaurant and became kitchen supervisor.  He worked full time in the summers.  He also played in the marching band all 4 years earning $2,000-$2,500 per year in band scholarships.  We sent him $200/month for food.  He also got money from grandparents ($8-10k in total).

Even after all of that, he STILL ended up with $28k in student loan debt.

My son owns this debt, he knows he has to pay it back, and while he does not expect any handouts, he also would have very much appreciated having 1/3 of it being knocked off.

$28k.....that's a new car....nothing super fancy, but that's a new car.

That's also a down payment on a house. 

Your numbers seem cheap.  The school I went to (Whitman college) in 2002-2006 was about $36k a year for room and board.  I think it's now over $56k/year just for tuition.  Granted it is I think the most expensive school in WA state, but even the University of WA in-state tuition is unattainable for a lot of families now.

It's absolutely insane.  My 2.5 year old son is probably going to need $400k if he wants to go to a "good" 4 year institution with those kinds of inflation rates.

[Chewbacca Defense]

5 hours ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

Your numbers seem cheap.  The school I went to (Whitman college) in 2002-2006 was about $36k a year for room and board.  I think it's now over $56k/year just for tuition.  Granted it is I think the most expensive school in WA state, but even the University of WA in-state tuition is unattainable for a lot of families now.

It's absolutely insane.  My 2.5 year old son is probably going to need $400k if he wants to go to a "good" 4 year institution with those kinds of inflation rates.

Isn't that a private school?  My numbers were for public institutions, so yeah, they would definitely be cheaper than a private school.

[Chewbacca Defense]

10 hours ago, Andie said:

Cost HAVE gotten out of hand.  Education or technical training are expensive.  I think if I could do it over I’d go with technical training.  A 4 year degree is not as useful today unless you’re a public school teacher or going on to a masters.  
If I were male I’d go for a journeyman electrician. Having had some repairs lately I’d say oh yes!
Edit:  I should add interest rates are on their way up.  Inflation is here. Curiously it reminds me of the Carter days when costs rose and we had a fuel shortage.  While no fuel shortage, fuel and food are certainly going up due to inflation certainly noticeable by the end of the year.  

In hindsight, I wish I had gotten a technical degree, but I grew up in a family where everyone got a college degree and either became a lawyer or a bid'niss man.  My sister went rogue and got her degree in architecture, but she got street cred when she graduated with honors when she got her master's from Tulane and won a prestigious international award for one of her designs.  She used her degree for a year then quit and started day trading.  My uncle also went rogue and got his masters in education and was a college administrator.

I failed out of college my first year, but kept going to whatever school would take me because the pressure was there to get that degree.  I finally got it when I was 49, graduating in 2019.  Aaaand the timing was great considering I got laid off 2 years later.  I had worked myself into a role where I would have to have a degree if I wanted to go to a different company. 

My cousin thinks her son is not 4 year college degree, and I told her there was nothing wrong with that.  He's a good kid, but school is not his thing.  I told her we have a lot of really nice houses out in the county here sitting on about 5 acres, nice truck, boat and RV also parked on the property.  They also have something else in common parked in the driveway....a work truck...plumbing, HVAC, or contractor...

[Iceresistance]

15 hours ago, Chewbacca Defense said:

In hindsight, I wish I had gotten a technical degree, but I grew up in a family where everyone got a college degree and either became a lawyer or a bid'niss man.  My sister went rogue and got her degree in architecture, but she got street cred when she graduated with honors when she got her master's from Tulane and won a prestigious international award for one of her designs.  She used her degree for a year then quit and started day trading.  My uncle also went rogue and got his masters in education and was a college administrator.

I failed out of college my first year, but kept going to whatever school would take me because the pressure was there to get that degree.  I finally got it when I was 49, graduating in 2019.  Aaaand the timing was great considering I got laid off 2 years later.  I had worked myself into a role where I would have to have a degree if I wanted to go to a different company. 

My cousin thinks her son is not 4 year college degree, and I told her there was nothing wrong with that.  He's a good kid, but school is not his thing.  I told her we have a lot of really nice houses out in the county here sitting on about 5 acres, nice truck, boat and RV also parked on the property.  They also have something else in common parked in the driveway....a work truck...plumbing, HVAC, or contractor...

For mine, College is required, I already have the knowledge to try to avoid student loans as much is possible