2016 Fall Off Topic Thread AKA Football or Politics

[snow_wizard]

The Confederate media?

 

The media in general.  They thought Lincoln was a buffoon.  Sound familiar?

[Front Ranger]

The funny thing is public confidence in the media continues to plunge and yet they keep on shooting themselves in the foot.  People are seeing right through them now.  Who wouldn't be pissed off with vitriol being being hurled at them 24/7?  No President has ever had to go through this.  Perhaps the closest was Lincoln.  Kind of ironic the media totally blew it with him also.

 

Thankfully, Lincoln triumphed in the end and Obama was able to be president.

[Jesse]

The media in general.  They thought Lincoln was a buffoon.  Sound familiar?

 

I am not really aware of that historical quirk. Do you have any examples?

 

I also think comparing Trump to Lincoln at this stage is not very respectful to Lincoln's legacy.

[snow_wizard]

I find it interesting that many congressional Republicans are now questioning him on the Russia ties. This includes John McCain, Lindsey Graham and Bob Corker.

 

Those treasonists must all love nothing burgers.

 

They are establishment politicians.  They see this as opportunity to get him out of the way.  That breed of Republicans are on their way out.

[Guest happ]

Drip, Drip, Drip https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/15/opinion/drip-drip-drip.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region

[TT-SEA]

The media in general.  They thought Lincoln was a buffoon.  Sound familiar?

So Trump is like Lincoln???

 

Might be the complete opposite actually. Lincoln was thoughtful and respectful and very well spoken. And was a champion for the under-privileged.

 

And because some people doubted someone else 150 years ago has nothing to do with Trump.

[snow_wizard]

I am not really aware of that historical quirk. Do you have any examples?

 

I also think comparing Trump to Lincoln at this stage is not very respectful to Lincoln's legacy.

 

I have gleaned that from reading books set during the Civil War period.

[Jesse]

They are establishment politicians.  They see this as opportunity to get him out of the way.  That breed of Republicans are on their way out.

 

So absolutely all of the left AND the center/establishment right are all on their way out to make way for this alt-right extremist movement that represents maybe 25% of this country, demographically? (counting only people who actually get off their asses and vote they represent a higher percentage, to be fair- otherwise Trump couldn't have won)

[Jesse]

I have gleaned that from reading books set during the Civil War period.

 

Sounds like you will pick up a lot of little bits of information and then run with them if they fit your world view. I know you are smarter than that, so I have trouble understanding why.

[Front Ranger]

The media in general.  They thought Lincoln was a buffoon.  Sound familiar?

 

I believe that was more because they thought of him as a backwoods hillbilly, though.

 

However, Lincoln did only get 40% of the popular vote, so there is that similarity. 

[snow_wizard]

Drip, Drip, Drip https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/15/opinion/drip-drip-drip.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region

 

Must be the sound of the editor's brains leaking out their ears.  The founders of that paper must be rolling in their graves.  The NYT doesn't even try to be objective anymore.  What a shame.

[Front Ranger]

Sounds like you will pick up a lot of little bits of information and then run with them if they fit your world view. I know you are smarter than that, so I have trouble understanding why.

 

Actually, it is pretty well established that Lincoln was largely an unpopular president while in office (especially his first couple years), and mocked by the media quite a bit. 

[Jesse]

I believe that was more because they thought of him as a backwoods hillbilly, though.

 

However, Lincoln did only get 40% of the popular vote, so there is that similarity. 

 

I'm sure the states who were on the verge of secession within a matter of months didn't exactly turn out in droves for Lincoln.

[snow_wizard]

So absolutely all of the left AND the center/establishment right are all on their way out to make way for this alt-right extremist movement that represents maybe 25% of this country, demographically? (counting only people who actually get off their asses and vote they represent a higher percentage, to be fair- otherwise Trump couldn't have won)

 

I was thinking about why Trump won today.  I think you can blame the DNC and what they did to Sanders.  You're not going to convince me there weren't many democrats who didn't vote because of anger over that.  Your own party is a mess.

 

Anyway...I think people like McCain will come around to some extent.  They are simply grasping at this opportunity to get rid of Trump.

[Deweydog]

Wasn't Lincoln assassinated?

 

#lowestpossibleapprovalrating

[Phil]

So absolutely all of the left AND the center/establishment right are all on their way out to make way for this alt-right extremist movement that represents maybe 25% of this country, demographically? (counting only people who actually get off their asses and vote they represent a higher percentage, to be fair- otherwise Trump couldn't have won)

I don't think Trump is a Republican. His fervent belief in economic isolationism and his anti-free trade stances sounds more like something out of China in the 1700s.

[Jesse]

Actually, it is pretty well established that Lincoln was largely an unpopular president while in office (especially his first couple years), and mocked by the media quite a bit. 

 

Apples to oranges comparison even if that were the case. I could do more research to verify but I have never encountered this in any of my studies of that era. Doesn't mean it's wrong, of course.

[snow_wizard]

Sounds like you will pick up a lot of little bits of information and then run with them if they fit your world view. I know you are smarter than that, so I have trouble understanding why.

 

I've read and heard it in enough places that I have no reason to doubt it.

[Front Ranger]

I'm sure the states who were on the verge of secession within a matter of months didn't exactly turn out in droves for Lincoln.

 

Yeah, there was that but the larger factor was 4 contending candidates in the race winning different states.

 

A different time to be sure.

[Jesse]

I was thinking about why Trump won today.  I think you can blame the DNC and what they did to Sanders.  You're not going to convince me there weren't many democrats who didn't vote because of anger over that.  Your own party is a mess.

 

Anyway...I think people like McCain will come around to some extent.  They are simply grasping at this opportunity to get rid of Trump.

 

That is a whole different can of worms. But I actually agree, in part. I didn't vote for Hillary for instance. I wrote in Sanders.

 

And I will be the first to admit that the Democratic party is an enormous mess right now. I read something about Hillary thinking about running again in 2020 today. The idea of that makes me want to beat my head against a wall.

[Front Ranger]

Apples to oranges comparison even if that were the case. I could do more research to verify but I have never encountered this in any of my studies of that era. Doesn't mean it's wrong, of course.

 

I assume Trump is the oranges? 

 

Yeah, I certainly don't see many similarities between Lincoln and Trump.

[Jesse]

Yeah, there was that but the larger factor was 4 contending candidates in the race winning different states.

 

A different time to be sure.

 

Yeah, like I said the states on the verge of secession didn't exactly turn out in droves for Lincoln.

[Phil]

Trump support is not growing. Its slipping. Annoying facts.

What makes you think it's slipping? His approval numbers are higher now vs election night.

 

Unless the economy crashes, I think people will eventually adjust to Trump and the whole thing will be normalized. It's been about 4 weeks..we have four years until 2020.

[Money]

I find it interesting that many congressional Republicans are now questioning him on the Russia ties. This includes John McCain, Lindsey Graham and Bob Corker.

 

Those treasonists must all love nothing burgers.

These three never supported Trump

[Jesse]

These three never supported Trump

 

That's why I called them treasonists. That is all it takes.

[Jesse]

What makes you think it's slipping? His approval numbers are higher now vs election night.

 

Unless the economy crashes, I think people will eventually adjust to Trump and the whole thing will be normalized. It's been about 4 weeks..we have four years until 2020.

 

I think you underestimate this guy's ability to be his own worst enemy.

[Front Ranger]

So absolutely all of the left AND the center/establishment right are all on their way out to make way for this alt-right extremist movement that represents maybe 25% of this country, demographically? (counting only people who actually get off their asses and vote they represent a higher percentage, to be fair- otherwise Trump couldn't have won)

 

There's no way 25% of the country is alt-right extremists.

 

There were a lot of reluctant Trump voters, who just thought Hillary was worse.

[Front Ranger]

Yeah, like I said the states on the verge of secession didn't exactly turn out in droves for Lincoln.

 

Why are you repeating that? I made a separate point - there were four contending candidates in the race, and each of them won at least one state. The vote was spread around.

 

That's the primary reason that Lincoln won the electoral count with only 40% of the popular vote.

[Jesse]

Why are you repeating that? I made a separate point - there were four contending candidates in the race, and each of them won at least one state. The vote was spread around.

 

That's the primary reason that Lincoln won the electoral count with only 40% of the popular vote.

 

Because what I said didn't really negate what you said, or vice versa. It seemed weird that you presented it as an alternative point when the two ideas kind of went together. I was aware that there were four contending candidates in the 1860 election. Very divided times. Not a lot of people in the southern states voted Lincoln.

[Guest happ]

Phil, on 15 Feb 2017 - 8:19 PM, said:Phil, on 15 Feb 2017 - 8:19 PM, said:

I don't think Trump is a Republican. His fervent belief in economic isolationism and his anti-free trade stances sounds more like something out of China in the 1700s.

 

Trump is a dangerous populist. CNN interviewed a psychiatrist on Trump.  The doctor cautioned to not diagnosis Trump [i.e. Narcissistic Personality Disorder] but agreed that Trump presents serious mental heath concerns for the nation.

[Front Ranger]

Because what I said didn't really negate what you said, or vice versa. It seemed weird that you presented it as an alternative point when the two ideas kind of went together. I was aware that there were four contending candidates in the 1860 election. Very divided times. Not a lot of people in the southern states voted Lincoln.

 

Good god, man. I wasn't contradicting you. I was augmenting what you said.

 

This is what I mean by you viewing a lot of things as attacks or opposing viewpoints, when in fact they are not.

[Deweydog]

What makes you think it's slipping? His approval numbers are higher now vs election night.

 

Unless the economy crashes, I think people will eventually adjust to Trump and the whole thing will be normalized. It's been about 4 weeks..we have four years until 2020.

The economy will be Trump's true litmus test. Most people in the middle see his ability to manage the economy as his strongest asset. The markets have sustained pretty unreal trends since November 8th, which is obviously partly a coincidence and not sustainable long-term, but they have shown a lot of resiliency through these various mini-dramas. Some economists are altering projections long term on the bull side, putting off the threat for correction. Some disagree but it's a different tone than 2-3 months ago.

 

If the economy sustains, essentially recession-free for four years, or expands notably, he'll at the very least be very competitive in three years. If we do see a major correction/recession, he's probably toast to anyone beside EW who has a pulse.

[Jesse]

There's no way 25% of the country is alt-right extremists.

 

There were a lot of reluctant Trump voters, who just thought Hillary was worse.

 

I was probably being overly generous.

 

With that in mind, I guess the fact that true alt-right extremist like Steve Bannon and Stephen Miller are close aides to the President makes this administration even less reflective of the beliefs of the average American.

[Guest happ]

I hate to say it but Jim sort of reminds me of Stephen Miller

[Deweydog]

I hate to say it but Jim sort of reminds me of Stephen Miller

That must have been VERY hard for you to say.

[Guest happ]

Deweydog, on 15 Feb 2017 - 8:46 PM, said:

That must have been VERY hard for you to say.

 

Actually there are several posters who seem a bit out there ala Stephen Miller. This presidency is like a tragic comedy; a documentary on American absurdness. Do you think one high school will ever be named for Trump? 

[TT-SEA]

Trump has really moderated from his campaign rhetoric.    At least he shows signs of compromise.  

 

-The wall is shrinking.   Bigly!

 

-Obamacare was not repealed on day 1 and might not even be replaced in the first year.   And then it will have to be a compromise.

 

-Now supports One China policy

 

-Changed his position on Israel states

 

-His Muslim ban became a temporary halt from 7 countries and even that was blocked

[Deweydog]

Actually there are several posters who seem a bit out there ala Stephen Miller. This presidency is like a tragic comedy; a documentary on American absurdness. Do you think one high school will ever be named for Trump?

Lots of people remind me of people.

 

I won't tell you who you remind me of.

[Front Ranger]

I was probably being overly generous.

 

With that in mind, I guess the fact that true alt-right extremist like Steve Bannon and Stephen Miller are close aides to the President makes this administration even less reflective of the beliefs of the average American.

 

Yeah, I would say that reflects more than anything the fact that the alt-right movement really got its foot in the door the past couple years and some of its biggest (though not necessarily most extreme) proponents helped propel the Trump train to victory. 

 

Stephen Miller is actually Jewish, so if Bannon is truly an anti-Semite, must be tough working together.

[Front Ranger]

Trump has really moderated from his campaign rhetoric.    At least he shows signs of compromise.  

 

-The wall is shrinking.   Bigly!

 

-Obamacare was not repealed on day 1 and might not even be replaced in the first year.   And then it will have to be a compromise.

 

-Now supports One China policy

 

-Changed his position on Israel states

 

-His Muslim ban became a temporary halt from 7 countries and even that was blocked

 

I always thought he was saying "big league".