2016 Fall Off Topic Thread AKA Football or Politics

[Jesse]

Kind of like how the media keeps throwing stories from "un-named sources" at Trump. How is that any better than the statement I made?

Don't you want to be seen as having a little more integrity than the vile, Soros fellating media you are constantly raging against?

[Jesse]

I have to say... what Soros says is pretty much spot:

 

Billionaire hedge fund manager George Soros on Thursday reiterated his belief that President-elect Donald Trump is "an imposter and con man and a would-be dictator."

 

"He stands for that other form of government, which is the opposite of an open society," said Soros, who is a Holocaust survivor and Hungarian immigrant. "It's really better described as a dictatorship or a mafia state."

 

Soros said Trump "would be a dictator if he could get away with it," but that US institutions are strong enough to prevent that scenario. He also said the ideas that guide Trump are "inherently self-contradictory" and that those contradictions are "embodied by his advisers."

This Soros guy sounds pretty spot on.

[TT-SEA]

This Soros guy sounds pretty spot on.

 

Sure seems like it.    I don't see any vile hatred.    Sounds very reasonable.

 

I think Jim is just scared.   

[Jesse]

Sure seems like it. I don't see any vile hatred. Sounds very reasonable.

 

I think Jim is just scared.

Trump needs to publically behead him!

[Phil]

Where did you read that the Pledge of Allegiance was banned from public schools? In 2002 the Ninth US Court of Appeals ruled that its recitation was unconstitutional, but that decision was reversed by the Supreme Court in 2004. It's still recited in most public schools.

The pledge of allegiance was ruled unconstitutional?

[Front Ranger]

You got what I meant, no? For someone who rattles on so much about responding to people's points, you sure seem to like to focus on semantics and technicalities.

Well, you were contrasting two extremes. Usually there is more than a "fine line" between extremes.

 

I think what you meant was it seems easy for people to fall into one of those extremes? Not sure.

[Guest happ]

snow_wizard, on 26 Feb 2017 - 10:29 PM, said:snow_wizard, on 26 Feb 2017 - 10:29 PM, said:

The 9th circuit Court of Appeals is a total joke. How anyone can defend them is beyond me. Almost every ruling they do is overturned.

 

I could do a way better of interpreting law than they do.

You live within the jurisdiction of the 9th circuit court; it seems you would have more respect for federal courts.  

[Phil]

You live within the jurisdiction of the 9th circuit court; it seems you would have more respect for a federal court.

The 9th circuit is a joke. Bipartisan agreement on that fact.

[Guest happ]

Phil, on 27 Feb 2017 - 08:22 AM, said:

The pledge of allegiance was ruled unconstitutional?

 

The issue is pledging allegiance by saying "one Nation under God," [added in 1952]

 

In my past work connection w/ school district middle schools I never heard the Pledge of Allegiance recited.  And the mention of God in the pledge is likely never done in public schools per separation of religion and government.

[Guest happ]

Republicans welcome President Bush speaking out.  World leaders are quite unsettled over Trump. 

 

Bush breaks silence on Trump, urges 'welcoming' immigration policy  http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/02/27/bush-breaks-silence-on-trump-urges-welcoming-immigration-policy.html

[Jesse]

Republicans welcome President Bush speaking out.  World leaders are quite unsettled over Trump. 

 

Bush breaks silence on Trump, urges 'welcoming' immigration policy  http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/02/27/bush-breaks-silence-on-trump-urges-welcoming-immigration-policy.html

 

Nice to see more moderate Republicans standing up to Trump. I never thought I would say that about GWB but here we are.

[Jesse]

The 9th circuit is a joke. Bipartisan agreement on that fact.

 

Do you have a link to a poll that asks whether or not they are a joke?

[Guest happ]

Republicans, like most Americans, are not fond of the person, Trump and desperately hope that the president stop embarrassing himself/ nation. I heard that Trump polled 70% dislike of his personality

[Jesse]

Republicans, like most Americans, are not fond of the person, Trump and desperately hope that the president stop embarrassing himself/ nation. I heard that Trump polled 70% dislike of his personality

 

Flatiron says we can't talk about this anymore. 

[Phil]

The issue is pledging allegiance by saying "one Nation under God," [added in 1952]

 

In my past work connection w/ school district middle schools I never heard the Pledge of Allegiance recited. And the mention of God in the pledge is likely never done in public schools per separation of religion and government.

Anyone crying over the word "god" being used (once) in the pledge probably has bigger issues. We always recited the pledge when I was in grade school. Each morning, as a matter of fact. No one had a problem with it.

 

Sometimes people just need to buck up.

[Guest happ]

Phil, on 27 Feb 2017 - 09:37 AM, said:Phil, on 27 Feb 2017 - 09:37 AM, said:

Anyone crying over the word "god" being used (once) in the pledge probably has bigger issues. We always recited the pledge when I was in grade school. Each morning, as a matter of fact.

 

No one had a problem with it.

 

You can't say that. There are people offended by forced public recitations involving God. I'm a Christian who is against any notion that others don't have a problem w/ public prayer.  For example: the reaction some Protestants have when Catholics cross themselves.  Prayer is personal; lets leave it that way.

[BLI snowman]

You've got me all wrong. I'm not a fan of false equivalency either, though.

 

Maybe you could try something new and make a somewhat coherent, intelligent post over here at some point and we could discuss it further.

 

Not my problem if you don't like what I say.

 

It's definitely hard not to like the discussion flow of "you're a moron" jabs, though.

[Phil]

Do you have a link to a poll that asks whether or not they are a joke?

I think Gallup did a poll on it earlier in the month. I'll see if I can find it.

 

I know it's nicknamed the "9th circuit of repeals" by many around here, given how many of its decisions are overturned by the Supreme Court. I think it's something like 80%. Hilarious.

[FroYoBro]

Anyone crying over the word "god" being used (once) in the pledge probably has bigger issues. We always recited the pledge when I was in grade school. Each morning, as a matter of fact. No one had a problem with it.

 

Sometimes people just need to buck up.

 

Well, there is a pretty good reason why it should not be allowed. Separation of state and religion is a great thing for our country. 

 

Many schools still recite the pledge, but most places have cut out the "under God" part. 

[Jesse]

Not my problem if you don't like what I say.

 

It's definitely hard not to like the discussion flow of "you're a moron" jabs, though.

Millard Fillmore picked his nose......and ate it!

 

Lololololololololol.

[Phil]

Well, there is a pretty good reason why it should not be allowed. Separation of state and religion is a great thing for our country.

 

Many schools still recite the pledge, but most places have cut out the "under God" part.

The concept of "god" is used by many who don't prescribe to a particular religion, and it's also used by many different religions.

 

So, how does the use of the word "God" in the pledge void the separation of church and state? Is it impacting lives and/or the passage of legislation? Or are people just crying because they can?

[Phil]

You can't say that. There are people offended by forced public recitations involving God. I'm a Christian who is against any notion that others don't have a problem w/ public prayer. For example: the reaction some Protestants have when Catholics cross themselves. Prayer is personal; lets leave it that way.

God doesn't = Christians. The pledge isn't a prayer.

[BLI snowman]

Millard Filmore picked his nose......and ate it!

 

Lololololololololol.

 

I think you just got a little starry-eyed punch-drunk on the hope+change express back during the snowy tail end of 2008. And that's a reality that you're just going to have to grapple with constructively going forward.  

[Jesse]

I think you just got a little starry-eyed punch-drunk on the hope+change express back during the snowy tail end of 2008. And that's a reality that you're just going to have to grapple with constructively going forward.

For sure. Obama ended up being a bit of a disappointment in many ways. Gotta love establishment politicians!

[Guest happ]

Phil, on 27 Feb 2017 - 09:54 AM, said:

God doesn't = Christians. The pledge isn't a prayer.

 

Embrace the concept that others may disagree with you and afford them the dignity of their opinion. Empathy. Atheists have rights, too. That is constitutional stuff.  

[BLI snowman]

For sure. Obama ended up being a bit of a disappointment in many ways. Gotta love establishment politicians!

 

Yeah, Obama is a lot like Trump 

 

#LameFauxNewsTalkingPointsAndBreitbartf*****gSucks

[Jesse]

Yeah, Obama is a lot like Trump

 

#LameFauxNewsTalkingPointsAndBreitbartf*****gSucks

Too bad, for a minute there I thought we were going to have an actual discussion. Maybe next time!

[BLI snowman]

Too bad, for a minute there I thought we were going to have an actual discussion. Maybe next time!

 

Orange Baboon= Normalizing

Normalizing= Holocaust + Rwandan Genocide

[Jesse]

Orange Baboon= Normalizing

Normalizing= Holocaust + Rwandan Genocide

Nice.

 

What is your opinion?

[BLI snowman]

Nice.

 

What is your opinion?

 

Already gave it last night.  Our political system is broken. Trump is not the guy to fix it. 

[FroYoBro]

The concept of "god" is used by many who don't prescribe to a particular religion, and it's also used by many different religions.

 

So, how does the use of the word "God" in the pledge void the separation of church and state? Is it impacting lives and/or the passage of legislation? Or are people just crying because they can?

 

 

You don't really have much of an argument. The word god is obviously directly connected to religion. Some people don't believe in a god at all. There is really no reason to have it in the pledge. 

 

Any people complaining have a right to because religion isn't supposed to be forced into public institutions. 

[Jesse]

Already gave it last night. Our political system is broken. Trump is not the guy to fix it.

Who can you think of that is? Anyone? To me, Sanders seemed like the best candidate, but I know you also seemed to take great sport in bashing him as well.

 

It is really easy to put on the cynic cap, sit back and make fun of everything and mock everyone's attempts at solving problems. Actually taking steps to solve them is much harder.

[Guest happ]

Maybe an example of reversion to GOD/ theology in a public setting: paranormal/ ghost-hunting TV interest. Should we also include incantations to the spirts?

[Jesse]

You don't really have much of an argument. The word god is obviously directly connected to religion. Some people don't believe in a god at all. There is really no reason to have it in the pledge.

 

Any people complaining have a right to because religion isn't supposed to be forced into public institutions.

The thing is, "Under God" wasn't even added to the pledge until 1954, in the midst of anti-"godless communist" fervor.

 

It's sort of a relic from an era of distrust, xenophobia and nationalism. Sounds familiar.

[Jesse]

Maybe an example of reversion to GOD/ theology in a public setting: paranormal/ ghost-hunting TV interest. Should we also include incantations to the spirts?

Yeah, where do we draw the line? If we are going to make a nod to people who believe in a monotheistic creator in our country's pledge of alleigiance, what about the wiccans and pagans? Where is the reference to Gaia?

 

Slippery slope. That's why it's best to leave religion out of these things entirely. As the founding fathers intended.

[BLI snowman]

Who can you think of that is? Anyone? To me, Sanders seemed like the best candidate, but I know you also seemed to take great sport in bashing him as well.

 

It is really easy to put on the cynic cap, sit back and make fun of everything and mock everyone's attempts at solving problems. Actually taking steps to solve them is much harder.

 

I voted for Johnson. I have fundamental issues with Bernie's embracing of a Trojan Magnum size government and his Robin Hood economics. Sorry. He also caved completely to Hillary and the DNC. Sad.

 

Speaking in broader terms, part of the problem is the two party mess and the fact that people on both sides don't like hearing the widely accepted truths about their faults. Trump represents such a wasted opportunity, as a largely self-funded outsider with a fiery disposition who could lay out the faults of both parties and actually call things as they see it. Not kowtowing to the party-lines but making them kowtow to you. A more decisive version of Ross Perot. Someone who can take control over the tired narratives and reapply some of these common "cynical" truths. The problem with Trump is that he's a childish and undisciplined nob with too low of an IQ and no real vision or principles to guide him beyond his own narcissism. Too bad, because I fear a doubling down on the milquetoast corruption angle of the recent past is in order now and the duopoly establishment will manage to reseize momentum here shortly as Trump self-destructs.

[Guest happ]

BLI snowman, on 27 Feb 2017 - 10:34 AM, said:

I voted for Johnson. I have fundamental issues with Bernie's embracing of a Trojan Magnum size government and his Robin Hood economics. Sorry. He also caved completely to Hillary and the DNC. Sad.

 

Speaking in broader terms, part of the problem is the two party mess and the fact that people on both sides don't like hearing the widely accepted truths about their faults. Trump represents such a wasted opportunity, as a largely self-funded outsider with a fiery disposition who could lay out the faults of both parties and actually call things as they see it. Not kowtowing to the party-lines but making them kowtow to you. A more decisive version of Ross Perot. Someone who can take control over the tired narratives and reapply some of these common "cynical" truths. The problem with Trump is that he's a childish and undisciplined nob with too low of an IQ and no real vision or principles to guide him beyond his own narcissism. Too bad, because I fear a doubling down on the milquetoast corruption angle of the recent past is in order now and the duopoly establishment will manage to reseize momentum here shortly as Trump self-destructs.

 

Exactly. And why Republicans will ultimately impeach Trump.   

[Phil]

Embrace the concept that others may disagree with you and afford them the dignity of their opinion. Empathy. Atheists have rights, too. That is constitutional stuff.

This is exactly my point. Should "god" be removed from the pledge because a few vocal atheists don't like the word? As you said, maybe they should embrace the concept that others don't agree with them. It's just a word.

[Deweydog]

Words cut like a knife.

[Phil]

You don't really have much of an argument. The word god is obviously directly connected to religion. Some people don't believe in a god at all. There is really no reason to have it in the pledge.

 

Any people complaining have a right to because religion isn't supposed to be forced into public institutions.

It's connected to many religions. It's also connected to popular culture and American lifestyle. So what? How does having it in the pledge negatively impact people's lives? Does it hurt atheists' feelings or something?

 

I don't think you understand what the separation of church and state actually refers to. Hence the Supreme Court decision.