2016 Fall Off Topic Thread AKA Football or Politics

[snow_wizard]

Looks like the cat might be out of the bag on the fact Tim has an unhealthy obsession with Jim.

 

[TT-SEA]

Just for clarification... please post Jim.    I did not misunderstand.    

 

 We are talking about people who totally condone extreme mistreatment of women including husbands dousing their wives with sulfuric acid. A pretty wretched religion.
 

 

I haven't heard many reports of Christians disfiguring their wives with acid. It's pretty common in the Middle East among Muslims. It's also quite telling when you look at the statistics of who is behind most of the terrorist attacks in Europe.

 

 

 

Pretty common?   Its a tiny percentage even in the Middle East.   There is a higher percentage of acid attacks in India (done by Hindus).   And its been used in English society since the middle ages.   

 

Its like saying that its pretty common for Americans to be shot in school and sexually abused by religious leaders.   Its a sweeping generalization that is based in fear and serves no purpose.

 

You are much more likely to be shot dead in Chicago than to be attacked with acid as a woman in the Middle East.   So Americans are horrible too, right?

 

We have millions of Muslims already living here legally who could be radicalized.   You will not stop the evil people in the world.    Do not lose sight of the fact that the VAST majority of people in the world are peaceful.   You perpetuate the division and violence with hatred towards groups of people.

 

Just fior 

I haven't heard many reports of Christians disfiguring their wives with acid. It's pretty common in the Middle East among Muslims. It's also quite telling when you look at the statistics of who is behind most of the terrorist attacks in Europe.

 

[TT-SEA]

I really like Reince Priebus.   I saw him interviewed on Hannity tonight.   He seems genuine and reasonable... and reportedly has spent time scolding Trump for speaking gaffes like when he said that Mexico is sending us their rapists and when Trump attacked the gold star family during the campaign.     

 

He comes across as much more likable and trustworthy than Trump.

[Front Ranger]

I think it's bad form to address a private PM for all of the forum to see.

In this case?

 

I'd rather err on the side of transparency. It's not like Tim was sharing something private about himself, and then I decided to share his secret with everyone.

 

There really wasn't anything in his PM that he hadn't already made clear on here.

[Jesse]

Alright, it's good form. Got sufficiently dogpiled for that statement.

[Guest happ]

http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/01/president_donald_trump_vows_to.html

[Front Ranger]

Looks like the negotiation games between the United States and Mexico over the border wall have begun. Mexican President threatens to cancel meeting, Trump does the same, now Pena Nieto officially cancels it.

 

It will be interesting to see how this unfolds over the next couple months. Given the trade deficit, amongst other things, Mexico doesn't have much room to negotiate.

My worry, along with a lot of other people's, is that Trump's America becomes viewed as a bully. There's definitely a time and place for hard negotiations and leveraging power, but it's also in our best interest to make more allies than enemies long term.

 

In this case, I absolutely believe immigrant laws should be enforced and our border should be protected, but Trump needs to be realize the differences between the world of business and the world of international relations.

[FroYoBro]

Looks like the negotiation games between the United States and Mexico over the border wall have begun. Mexican President threatens to cancel meeting, Trump does the same, now Pena Nieto officially cancels it.

 

It will be interesting to see how this unfolds over the next couple months. Given the trade deficit, amongst other things, Mexico doesn't have much room to negotiate. 

 

This is a bigger issue for the U.S. than you think. Mexico is a big trade partner. Trump is causing this nonsense due to his insistence of Mexico paying for the wall. 

 

This isn't even a negotiation. That implies that there is a healthy middle ground. Mexico WILL NEVER pay for the wall. 

[bainbridgekid]

Looks like Trump is suggesting a 20% tax on all Mexican imports to help pay for the wall.

 

Chipotle will be charging $3 for guacamole before we know it.

 

In all seriousness though, that is a pretty terrible idea. Who does he think buys (and thus pays the taxes) for the goods we import from Mexico? Americans.

[Deweydog]

Mexico will never pay for the wall... as far as writing a check. There are other ways to get them to pay for the wall. Below is a link to different ways to make that happen. In short, between visa fees, stopping money transfers, trade tariffs, and other trade negotiations (such as NAFTA), Mexico would almost be better off just writing a check. Also, Mexico is a big trade partner but guess who has more to lose? Mexico, not us.

 

On a related note, I find it funny the Mexican President says they "don't believe in walls" when saying they won't pay for it. What's that thing that separates Mexico and Guatemala? Oh yeah, a freaking wall.

 

https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/Pay_for_the_Wall.pdf

 

 

You know things have been bad for a while when wanting fair trade, strong borders, and an even playing field for both allies and enemies is viewed as America being a bully.

 

At the risk of sounding like I'm simply tooting Trump's horn, we have not had a President who stood up strongly for America's citizens and interests for almost a decade. It's time that changed.

You think GW unilaterally embarking on a decade-plus, high collateral damage war effort on bogus information against a foe which posed no specific threat to American soil in America's best interest? Or was a horrible federal response to the biggest natural disaster on American soil in America's best interest?

[FroYoBro]

You think GW unilaterally embarking on a decade-plus, high collateral damage war effort on bogus information against a foe which posed no specific threat to American soil in America's best interest? Or was a federal horrible response to the biggest natural disaster on American soil in America's best interest?

 

You beat me to the punch about the war in Iraq.

[FroYoBro]

Looks like Trump is suggesting a 20% tax on all Mexican imports to help pay for the wall.

 

Chipotle will be charging $3 for guacamole before we know it.

 

In all seriousness though, that is a pretty terrible idea. Who does he think buys (and thus pays the taxes) for the goods we import from Mexico? Americans.

 

Interesting. So basically U.S. consumers will be paying for the wall? What a surprise. 

[BLI snowman]

OK, for almost two decades. You prove my point.

 

Who was the last one, in your opinion?

[Deweydog]

OK, for almost two decades. You prove my point.

I think the point is putting America's interests first is an incredibly subjective and evolving test.

[bainbridgekid]

Interesting. So basically U.S. consumers will be paying for the wall? What a surprise. 

Yup.

 

20% of all US made car parts are imported from Mexico too, so this would significantly hurt the American auto industry.

[Front Ranger]

Interesting. So basically U.S. consumers will be paying for the wall? What a surprise.

That's assuming we just keep importing from Mexico at the same rate and don't find alternative suppliers for some things.

[bainbridgekid]

Mexico will never pay for the wall... as far as writing a check. There are other ways to get them to pay for the wall. Below is a link to different ways to make that happen. In short, between visa fees, stopping money transfers, trade tariffs, and other trade negotiations (such as NAFTA), Mexico would almost be better off just writing a check. Also, Mexico is a big trade partner but guess who has more to lose? Mexico, not us.

 

On a related note, I find it funny the Mexican President says they "don't believe in walls" when saying they won't pay for it. What's that thing that separates Mexico and Guatemala? Oh yeah, a freaking wall.

 

https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/Pay_for_the_Wall.pdf

 

 

You know things have been bad for a while when wanting fair trade, strong borders, and an even playing field for both allies and enemies is viewed as America being a bully.

 

At the risk of sounding like I'm simply tooting Trump's horn, we have not had a President who stood up strongly for America's citizens and interests for almost a decade. It's time that changed.

Your and Trump's version of "putting America's citizens first" sounds a whole lot like Isolationism which simply does not work in today's global economy.

[Deweydog]

Trump has made it pretty clear he is not an isolationist. He wants bilateral trade deals that benefit both countries. He wants a stronger relationship with our allies (see: Israel, UK) than his predecessor (let's not forget Obama threatened to put Britain to the "back of the line" if they voted leave on Brexit). He wants to team up with other countries (see: Russia, although that's debatable) to take down ISIS. Those are just a few examples.

 

I think often times people, in general, get the two mixed up. You can have one (non-globalization) without the other (isolationism). Balance.

I agree the isolationist branding is unfair.

 

Sometimes it's as simple as perspective. Perhaps a little more "isolationism" and we don't get wrapped up in an Iraqi regime change. Perhaps a little more "isolationism" and we don't get involved in a Vietnam "police action." Obviously abstaining from either conflict would have fit the progressive agenda of today and would not have been assigned such a negative branding.

 

I think most Americans are of the opinion we play too fast and loose on the world stage and at least a moderate shift back toward a homeland-first stance on some key issues is pretty welcome, p*ssy grabbing notwithstanding.

[Front Ranger]

As if you needed anymore convincing, here is a pretty good article on issues with the media and their incredible bias. Some highlights:

 

(On comparing Trump's "America First" slogan to the anti-Semitic movement in the '30s.)

 

"Lastly, Sen. John McCain’s 2008 presidential campaign slogan was “Country First” and the press had no qualms about that. Moreover, Hillary Clinton’s “Stronger Together” slogan was one used by Italian fascist Mussolini — but never mind that."

 

(On Trump's inauguration speech being "extremely dark", as analyzed by many media outlets.)

 

"But let’s recall some lines from Mr. Obama’s 2009 inauguration speech:

“That we are in the midst of crisis is now well understood,” Mr. Obama plainly stated. “Our nation is at war, against a far-reaching network of violence and hatred. Our economy is badly weakened, a consequence of greed and irresponsibility on the part of some, but also our collective failure to make hard choices and prepare the nation for a new age. Homes have been lost; jobs shed; businesses shuttered. Our health care is too costly; our schools fail too many; and each day brings further evidence that the ways we use energy strengthen our adversaries and threaten our planet.

“These are the indicators of crisis, subject to data and statistics,” Mr. Obama said. “Less measurable but no less profound is a sapping of confidence across our land — a nagging fear that America’s decline is inevitable, and that the next generation must lower its sights.”"

 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jan/23/10-reasons-why-trump-should-hate-media/

 

To be fair, economically at least we were in pretty dire straits when Obama was inaugurated.

 

But you'll never get an argument from me that the media isn't incredibly biased. 

[snow_wizard]

That's assuming we just keep importing from Mexico at the same rate and don't find alternative suppliers for some things.

The goal is obviously to have them made in the US.

[Jesse]

The goal is obviously to have them made in the US.

 

That means they will cost more, though. We pay our workers more. For now at least...

[bainbridgekid]

One thing I've never understood about the border wall:

 

30-40% of all undocumented people living in America didn't cross the border illegally. They flew here legally on planes and overstayed their visas.

 

Last time I checked, planes fly over walls.

[Deweydog]

One thing I've never understood about the border wall:

 

30-40% of all undocumented people living in America didn't cross the border illegally. They flew here legally on planes and overstayed their visas.

 

Last time I checked, planes fly over walls.

Two out of three ain't bad...

[Guest happ]

BBC could have asked the President any question in the world at the Trump/May presser.

 

With that in mind, what does she ask? "Are you worried that you offended people?"    

 

I've seen many people from Britain on FB/Twitter that state BBC over there is the equivalent of our extremely biased press here. Now I see why.

 

Compared to Trump our last president was widely revered across the world. We ask the world to not judge Americans by disgust of Trump the Offensive.

[Jesse]

Compared to Trump our last president was widely revered across the world. We ask the world to not judge Americans by disgust of Trump the Offensive.

This kind of stuff definitely fosters understanding between both sides. Keep it up!

[Guest happ]

This kind of stuff definitely fosters understanding between both sides. Keep it up!

 

Such a Pollyanna  

[Guest happ]

This article covers both politics and football: http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-brady-trump-plaschke-20170126-story.html

 

"Alliance with Trump may prove to be a Super distraction for New England Patriots trio"

[snow_wizard]

Compared to Trump our last president was widely revered across the world. We ask the world to not judge Americans by disgust of Trump the Offensive.

All you ever do is repeat what you hear the media say. You're never going to get what's going on here. Going to more shock and awe when Trump gets re-elected too.

[snow_wizard]

One thing I've never understood about the border wall:

 

30-40% of all undocumented people living in America didn't cross the border illegally. They flew here legally on planes and overstayed their visas.

 

Last time I checked, planes fly over walls.

Obviously the wall is just one piece of a comprehensive plan.

[Jesse]

All you ever do is repeat what you hear the media say. You're never going to get what's going on here. Going to more shock and awe when Trump gets re-elected too.

Where do you get your information Jim?

[Jesse]

Such a Pollyanna

Nah, just tired of sentiment like that giving progressives a bad name.

[snow_wizard]

Where do you get your information Jim?

Several different mostly conservative sites. Then I go and fact check the stuff I read. You pretty much have to fact check everything now. Some people on here desperately need to do that.

 

BTW you need to check your in box.

[Jesse]

Several different mostly conservative sites. Then I go and fact check the stuff I read. You pretty much have to fact check everything now. Some people on here desperately need to do that.

 

BTW you need to check your in box.

 

Just checked.

[Anti Marine Layer]

I am for the wall, but not for the Mexicans paying for it. I also think that it is stupid that you can have parents who are illegal and you are legal just because you were born in the United States. I think people are more concerned about families being split up then simply being sent back to Mexico.

[TT-SEA]

I love this article... shows the inner workings of the Republicans who have no idea what to do with the ACA and know that it will be called Trumpcare and they will be judged by this in less than 2 years in the next election.  

 

At least they are trying and recognize the importance.   But they have no clue either.   

 

And they are right... Trumpcare will be judged quickly.  

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/behind-closed-doors-republican-lawmakers-fret-about-how-to-repeal-obamacare/2017/01/27/deabdafa-e491-11e6-a547-5fb9411d332c_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_goptapes-138pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.ca620c6a44c6

 

Also wonder if the shock of Trump's win is going to manifest itself with people on the left voting at insanely high rates in 2018 and 2020.    Meanwhile the bloom will be off the rose of Trump for his base and they will be less likely to turn out at the same rate as in 2016.

[snow_wizard]

Another fabulous example of why people need to fact check every story about Trump coming out now. It seems that an alleged Trump supporter attacked a Muslim airline employee. In truth the guy has long history of donating to the Democratic Party including a long list of people who have come out strongly against Trump. You can decide for yourself what the truth is on this, but this is a dangerous direction our country is going. A large number of hate crimes supposedly connected with Trump supports have later been proven to have been committed by people who hate Trump.

[snow_wizard]

I am for the wall, but not for the Mexicans paying for it. I also think that it is stupid that you can have parents who are illegal and you are legal just because you were born in the United States. I think people are more concerned about families being split up then simply being sent back to Mexico.

Trump is saying the Mexicans may end up paying for the wall indirectly through various means. People have taken that statement a bit too literally perhaps.

[Deweydog]

I love this article... shows the inner workings of the Republicans who have no idea what to do with the ACA and know that it will be called Trumpcare and they will be judged by this in less than 2 years in the next election.

 

At least they are trying and recognize the importance. But they have no clue either.

 

And they are right... Trumpcare will be judged quickly.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/behind-closed-doors-republican-lawmakers-fret-about-how-to-repeal-obamacare/2017/01/27/deabdafa-e491-11e6-a547-5fb9411d332c_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_goptapes-138pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.ca620c6a44c6

 

Also wonder if the shock of Trump's win is going to manifest itself with people on the left voting at insanely high rates in 2018 and 2020. Meanwhile the bloom will be off the rose of Trump for his base and they will be less likely to turn out at the same rate as in 2016.

Seems the left would have done this a couple months ago if they were as sincerely disturbed and scared as they supposedly are now.

 

Strange.

[Guest happ]

It is unsettling how quickly Trump is making enemies both internally and internationally. Is this the kind of governing Republicans want?

[Guest happ]

What enemies has he made internationally?

 

Turn on your TV for a daily dose: today it is the ban on Muslims w/o any plan/ coordination