2016 Fall Off Topic Thread AKA Football or Politics

[snow_wizard]

George Soros was born in 1930...he was 14 when the Holocaust ended.

 

Still doesn't change the fact he aided the enemy.  Kids that are 12+ are capable of evil.

 

I urge everyone to look up some the ways Soros has tried to undermine the economies of entire countries while growing ultra rich in the meantime.  I've heard some theories that Trump could have grounds to put him trial for sedition.  Lot's of ways they can make his life more painful than it already is.  The man is well hated by much of the world.

[snow_wizard]

Looks like the refugee ban was just put on pause by the ACLU and a federal judge. 

 

I highly doubt that will stand.  We aren't talking about citizens here.  They have no rights under US law.

[Tenochtitlan]

Still doesn't change the fact he aided the enemy.  Kids that are 12+ are capable of evil.

 

I urge everyone to look up some the ways Soros has tried to undermine the economies of entire countries while growing ultra rich in the meantime.  I've heard some theories that Trump could have grounds to put him trial for sedition.  Lot's of ways they can make his life more painful than it already is.  The man is well hated by much of the world.

Hmm, what evidence do you have for this?

[Tenochtitlan]

I love how everyone is praising Trudeau for saying he will accept the refugees that we deny. Do they realize that other than refugees, Canada has some of the strictest immigration laws in the world? Unless you are a student, have family there, or have experience in a trade or service that you can contribute to their country you cannot move there. Not to mention that once you do move there, IF you do, you have to stay for at least six years until you can apply to be a permanent resident. Where is the national outcry? Why aren't they racists/fascists/xenophobics? #Equality4All #OnlyRepublicansCanBeBadThings

 

So a country with very very strict immigration control is still letting in refugees. Whereas we have less strict immigration control, and yet we can't let a few tens of thousands of refugees into our country, after we've already told them they can come here?

 

We have 300 million people and we only let in 39,000 Muslim refugees last year, that's one in every 8,000 people. Really it is not much to ask of us, to let in such a small number of refugees, especially seeing as the US has played a role in destabilizing the Middle East; there might not be any Syrian refugees if we hadn't, but there are now, and somebody has to accept them, at least for temporary asylum.

 

Xenoophobia has to be at least part of the explanation for this, otherwise it makes absolutely no sense.

[Brennan]

Todd White for president! 

[Guest happ]

Speaking personally, two recent Trump actions have endangered me and other Americans who travel out of the country. Vacations to Mexico will be awkward & apologetic. World travel more dangerous/ difficult for Americans [starting at airports     

 

Expect large protest demonstrations if and when President Trump ever visits Seattle/ Portland/ San Francisco/ Los Angeles/ etc.

[Deweydog]

Speaking personally, two recent Trump actions have endangered me and other Americans who travel out of the country. Vacations to Mexico will be awkward & apologetic. World travel more dangerous/ difficult for Americans [starting at airports

 

Expect large protest demonstrations if and when President Trump ever visits Seattle/ Portland/ San Francisco/ Los Angeles/ etc.

If you're really this hysterical, don't travel abroad.

 

In fact, don't leave the house. Give in to the fear.

[Guest happ]

If you're really this hysterical, don't travel abroad.

 

In fact, don't leave the house. Give in to the fear.

It really is embarrassment. Did you watch the interview with McConnell this morning?   

[BLI snowman]

Speaking personally, two recent Trump actions have endangered me and other Americans who travel out of the country. Vacations to Mexico will be awkward & apologetic. World travel more dangerous/ difficult for Americans [starting at airports

 

Expect large protest demonstrations if and when President Trump ever visits Seattle/ Portland/ San Francisco/ Los Angeles/ etc.

I don't think that I could sleep at night knowing that your resort experience in Puerta Vallarta could include any less than maximum comfort in the future.

[Deweydog]

It really is embarrassment. Did you watch the interview with McConnell this morning?

He's so cute. America's loose-skinned grandpa!

[Jesse]

He's so cute. America's loose-skinned grandpa!

He reminds me of the turtle character from that awful Dana Carvey movie.

[Guest happ]

I don't think that I could sleep at night knowing that your resort experience in Puerta Vallarta could include any less than maximum comfort in the future.

 

Yucatan is not comfortable if you check out the Mayan ruins plus water sports. It is also inexpensive.  

[Guest happ]

He's so cute. America's loose-skinned grandpa!

 

Democrats are hopeful that Senate and even House Republicans will oppose Trump vigorously. Bill Maher called on Republicans to stop the madness.

[Guest happ]

 

Here's where we agree

[Deweydog]

I need to watch more TV.

[Jesse]

I need to watch more TV.

It can be great for your panic levels.

[Deweydog]

It can be great for your panic levels.

I constantly feel like I'm underreacting to things.

 

We don't have a single tinfoil hat of safe space in our household.

[Heavy Snow]

This is a long answer but hopefully it will help to better understand where some people in this country are coming from:

 

The majority of those entering the US through the refugee program are good people just wanting to escape the horrors of their country. Everybody knows that, including Trump. Women, children especially - it's horrible what they have endured and I wish we could take them all in. Now, ISIS has specifically stated they plan to have their fighters pose as refugees in order to gain access into our country. With that in mind, how can we possibly keep allowing refugees into our country at this current time? It's extremely unfair for those good people trying to enter, but that's just the way it is.

 

It might seem that Trump is just preying on people's fear. That surely fits well with how the media has painted him. In reality, he is just doing what he thinks he needs to in order to keep us safe. Any terrorist attack that may occur from an ISIS militant that entered our country posing as a refugee is a terrorist attack that could have been prevented. If Trump didn't take those actions I would expect that, God forbid one did happen, you would be the one to go explain to the families that their loved ones are gone because we didn't want to take the unfortunate but necessary steps in order to protect them. Is it going to stop ALL terrorist attacks? No. Will they get in via other means? Maybe. But doing everything we can to ensure a conversation like that never, ever happens makes perfect sense to me.

 

In a lot of ways, that same principle applies to illegal immigration and sanctuary cities too. Every person who has died due to an illegal immigrant (Kate Steinle, Sarah Root, Brandon Mendoza, Jamiel Shaw Jr, etc.) is a death that should not have occurred. If more people had to go do the "tough talk" with those family members, I think the sentiment in this country would be very, very different. Because until it effects you personally, everything seems A-OK. If you haven't already, I would strongly encourage you to go watch the testimony of Kate Steinle's father and while you watch it, keep in mind her killer had been deported seven times and already had a criminal record.

 

It would do a lot of this country good to not be so quick with labels and try to better understand where the other sides viewpoint is coming from. Just because we want to try to keep needless deaths from occurring, doesn't mean we don't care about those that are suffering. It's an extremely large gray area that requires tough desicions.

I'm more concerned at home grown terrorists here in the USA. There are millions of Muslim citizens here in the USA and Trump is making them angry. The guy responsible for the Orlando shooting was born here to Afghanistan parents who by the way was not on Trumps ban list. This Executive Order I fear will make some people go over the edge.

[TT-SEA]

Leaky White House... reports of staffers talking anonymously about President Trump being child-like in his attention span and ability to control his impulses.   Not surprising of course.     I guess we should never be surprised or concerned about these things.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/26/the-leaks-coming-out-the-trump-white-house-cast-the-boss-as-a-clueless-child/?utm_term=.9f7b98b90c6d

 

These tweets were posted in the middle of the night in apparent rage of anger... misspelled words and poor grammar.      Maybe the president would be expected (at a minimum) to act like a mature adult?    Nah... this is Trump and he is breaking all the rules.   Its fun.   

 

 

 

And then Bannon telling the media to "shut its mouth".   I was watching FOX news this morning and even they were ripping him for that and said it was straight insulting to everyone.

 

I know... don't react to Trump.    

 

But I think its pretty clear that Trump is genuinely mentally ill.   I think Republicans are going to turn against him as well.    I have a feeling this is going to end in a real mess for our country.   Just a feeling.   

[Deweydog]

Leaky White House... reports of staffers talking anomalously about President Trump being child-like in his attention span and ability to control his impulses. Not surprising of course. I guess we should never be surprised or concerned about these things.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/26/the-leaks-coming-out-the-trump-white-house-cast-the-boss-as-a-clueless-child/?utm_term=.9f7b98b90c6d

 

These tweets were posted in the middle of the night in apparent rage of anger... misspelled words and poor grammar. Maybe the president would be expected (at a minimum) to act like a mature adult? Nah... this is Trump and he is breaking all the rules. Its fun.

 

 

 

And then Bannon telling the media to "shut its mouth". I was watching FOX News this morning and even they were ripping him for that and said it was straight up insulting to everyone.

 

I know... don't react to Trump.

 

But I think its pretty clear that Trump is genuinely mentally ill. I think Republicans are going to turn against him as well. I have a feeling this is going to end in a real mess for our country. Just a feeling.

The media generally doesn't like anomalous sources. They're weird.

[TT-SEA]

The media generally doesn't like anomalous sources. They're weird.

 

Corrected.

[TT-SEA]

I forced myself to watch the morning shows on FOX news today... and found it actually was more 'fair and balanced' than the liberal-biased media right now.   

 

They certainly were on the attack on many of Trump's moves and statements without just focusing on the protesters (which is a small part of the story right now).

[Front Ranger]

If you prefer mindless hysteria, don't read this article:

 

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444370/donald-trump-refugee-executive-order-no-muslim-ban-separating-fact-hysteria

[Front Ranger]

I forced myself to watch the morning shows on FOX news today... and found it actually was more 'fair and balanced' than the liberal-biased media right now.   

 

They certainly were on the attack on many of Trump's moves and statements without just focusing on the protesters (which is a small part of the story right now).

 

Fox News certainly has its biases, but in recent years I have also found them more balanced than many give them credit for. Certainly more than some other popular news outlets.

 

So many "mainstream" news sources are a complete joke right now.

 

In Jesse's mind, this confirms that I'm a raging, die-hard conservative.

[TT-SEA]

Fox News certainly has its biases, but in recent years I have also found them more balanced than many give them credit for. Certainly more than some other popular news outlets.

 

So many "mainstream" news sources are a complete joke right now.

Regardless... even Trump's favorite FOX news is being highly critical of his childish and impulsive behavior. Except for Hannity who is a basically a Trump puppet.

 

Republicans are going to start turning on Trump eventually.

[Deweydog]

And that's where the "Is it going to stop ALL terrorist attacks? No." comes in. You can only do so much. ISIS will radicalize anyone, regardless if we put a temporary ban on refugees/immigration or not. They aren't going to like us more if we just leave the gates open - "Well, they are letting our people in so maybe Western civilization is not as bad." Yeah, no.

 

Let me ask you an honest question: Were you worried about people going "over the edge" when then-President Barack Obama suspended refugees from Iraq for 6 months in 2011? 6 months mind you, not the 120 days as Trump ordered.

Leftists seem to be focusing on the fact Obama, and Carter for that matter, did not invoke a religious aspect. Of course the religious aspect of Trump's order is relatively minor.

 

Beside that difference they are basically built on the same foundation of bigotry, hatred and xenophobia. Oh, and national security.

[Front Ranger]

Regardless... even Trump's favorite FOX news is being highly critical of his childish and impulsive behavior. Except for Hannity who is a basically a Trump puppet.

 

Republicans are going to start turning on Trump eventually.

 

There have been a ton of Republicans who were never really in his camp. Remember all the talk before the convention last year? He was the least popular presidential primary winner among his party in a long, long time.

 

And Fox has consistently been critical of him from the beginning, though they still gave voice to some of his most fervent supporters like Hannity.

[TT-SEA]

Leftists seem to be focusing on the fact Obama, and Carter for that matter, did not invoke a religious aspect. Of course the religious aspect of Trump's order is relatively minor.

 

Beside that difference they are basically built on the same foundation of bigotry, hatred and xenophobia. Oh, and national security.

 

 

Stats show we have a shocking 1 in 364 billion chance of being murdered by a refugee in this country.   Scary!  

 

I wonder what the odds are of being murdered by another American??    Lets deport all Americans too.   Some of them are murderers.  

[Front Ranger]

Leftists seem to be focusing on the fact Obama, and Carter for that matter, did not invoke a religious aspect. Of course the religious aspect of Trump's order is relatively minor.

 

Beside that difference they are basically built on the same foundation of bigotry, hatred and xenophobia. Oh, and national security.

 

In fact, it's really no different than the refugee policies by previous administrations. It's simply being interpreted differently.

[TT-SEA]

There have been a ton of Republicans who were never really in his camp. Remember all the talk before the convention last year? He was the least popular presidential primary winner among his party in a long, long time.

 

And Fox has consistently been critical of him from the beginning, though they still gave voice to some of his most fervent supporters like Hannity.

 

I think many of the Republicans are still taking a 'wait and see' approach... but common sense and the expectation of a very basic level of maturity from the POTUS are beginning to take over.   Reality is setting in now.  

[Jesse]

In Jesse's mind, this confirms that I'm a raging, die-hard conservative.

I thought we were putting this kind of thing on hiatus for a bit?

 

Sort of a needless jab.

[Front Ranger]

Stats show we have a shocking 1 in 364 billion chance of being murdered by a refugee in this country.   Scary!  

 

I wonder what the odds are of being murdered by another American??    Lets deport all Americans too.   Some of them are murderers.  

 

I don't think this is a fair and balanced analysis of Trump's refugee executive order.

[Deweydog]

Stats showing we have a shocking 1 in 364 billion chance of being murdered by a refugee in this country. Scary!

 

I wonder what the odds are of being murdered by another American?? Lets deport all Americans too. Some of them are murderers.

I know you're probably smarter than this.

 

It's a consistent tactic to apply a present-tense analysis to these types of moves if you're just into political dissent and pandering.

 

If, however, one of these refugees blows up a movie theatre in Chicago there would be real tears, not just symbolic tears, and outcry for more government intervention.

[Front Ranger]

I think many of the Republicans are still taking a 'wait and see' approach... but common sense and the expectation of a very basic level of maturity from the POTUS are beginning to take over.   Reality is setting in now.

 

Meaning? What do you expect to happen?

 

Trump is impulsive, childish at times, and uncouth. That was the case before he was elected. What has he done since being elected that is different than anyone expected?

[TT-SEA]

I don't think this is a fair and balanced analysis of Trump's refugee executive order.

 

I think Trump defaults to rather extreme fear mongering...

 

This is a good description of Trump's tactics... of course we have a much better system in place to prevent what Chavez did.  

 

Because in one regard, Trump and Chávez are identical. They are both masters of populism.

The recipe for populism is universal. Find a wound common to many, find someone to blame for it, and make up a good story to tell. Mix it all together. Tell the wounded you know how they feel. That you found the bad guys. Label them: the minorities, the politicians, the businessmen. Caricature them. As vermin, evil masterminds, haters and losers, you name it. Then paint yourself as the savior. Capture the people’s imagination. Forget about policies and plans, just enrapture them with a tale. One that starts with anger and ends in vengeance. A vengeance they can participate in.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/01/27/in-venezuela-we-couldnt-stop-chavez-dont-make-the-same-mistakes-we-did/?utm_term=.9dfb8174d511

[TT-SEA]

I know you're probably smarter than this.

 

It's a consistent tactic to apply a present-tense analysis to these types of moves if you're just into political dissent and pandering.

 

If, however, one of these refugees blows up a movie theatre in Chicago there would be real tears, not just symbolic tears, and outcry for more government intervention.

 

And it would result in persecution of innocent people.     What is the cost to our democracy?   The terrorists win.  

[snow_wizard]

I don't think this is a fair and balanced analysis of Trump's refugee executive order.

Indeed. People are continuing to miss the point of why Trump won. Based on that they will continue to make inaccurate predictions of what his fate will be. They've been wrong about everything to do with him for months.

 

Right now his base is getting even more solid as the mainstream news outlets continue to make fools of themselves.

 

One interesting development is the pro life wing of the Republican Party which had been unsure about Trump, now like him. They know he has their back since Pence spoke at the Pro Life March in D.C. (which the media barely covered BTW). That was the first time a Government official that high up spoke there.

[Front Ranger]

I thought we were putting this kind of thing on hiatus for a bit?

 

Sort of a needless jab.

 

Sorry...based on past responses, I could just see it coming.

[Front Ranger]

I think Trump defaults to rather extreme fear mongering...

 

This is a good description of Trump's tactics... of course we have a much better system in place to prevent what Chavez did.  

 

Because in one regard, Trump and Chávez are identical. They are both masters of populism.

The recipe for populism is universal. Find a wound common to many, find someone to blame for it, and make up a good story to tell. Mix it all together. Tell the wounded you know how they feel. That you found the bad guys. Label them: the minorities, the politicians, the businessmen. Caricature them. As vermin, evil masterminds, haters and losers, you name it. Then paint yourself as the savior. Capture the people’s imagination. Forget about policies and plans, just enrapture them with a tale. One that starts with anger and ends in vengeance. A vengeance they can participate in.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/01/27/in-venezuela-we-couldnt-stop-chavez-dont-make-the-same-mistakes-we-did/?utm_term=.9dfb8174d511

 

I absolutely agree that one of Trump's tactics is playing the populist appeal.

 

That doesn't make your comparisons of his refugee order accurate.

[TT-SEA]

Meaning? What do you expect to happen?

 

Trump is impulsive, childish at times, and uncouth. That was the case before he was elected. What has he done since being elected that is different than anyone expected?

 

Yes... it is different to see the President of the United States consistently acting in such a way.    It just is.   I think its offensive to Republicans as well... who tolerated it and hoped for the best.   

 

We will see.