Middle East Conflict of 2023-2024 (Also including the protests related to this)

[Rubus Leucodermis]

7 minutes ago, Anti Marine Layer said:

Whose Land Is It Anyway?

Whomever my imaginary friend in the sky says it is.

[roadtonowhere08]

1 hour ago, Anti Marine Layer said:

Whose Land Is It Anyway?

"Where everything's made up and the lives don't matter"

[roadtonowhere08]

If any of you have 2 hours to fill, this is the best interview I have seen in a very long time:

Piers ignored all the historical context Bassem went over and rambled on about Oct. 7 and how Israel should properly respond toward the end, but overall this was great.  Kudos to Piers for not trying to make it a circus. 

Less than 10 hours and already 2.2 million views.  There's for hope longform, civil interviews still 

[Andie]

On 10/31/2023 at 2:31 PM, hawkstwelve said:

Iranian-backed Houthis in Yemen have declared war on Israel.

Also, Israel bombed a refugee camp in Gaza in order to kill a Hamas commander. I'm sure that will help things not escalate even further. 

Inching closer and closer to a full-scale, regional war. Question then becomes how much of the rest of the world decides to get involved.

Israel said they will finish this. I expect it to go on until Gaza is flattened 100%. Then Iran will nuke someone, probably Israel.  They will never live in peace, so it will go on.  Iran is bankrolling this (with our money- 6 bil goes a long way). It’s a stew pot that boils over now and then.  
Clean on aisle six- again. 

[Andie]

16 hours ago, hawkstwelve said:

Avoid WWIII?

Ignore a kitchen fire, it’ll only spread.  
Applies to both sides.  
 

[Iceresistance]

Biden is calling for a ceasefire to allow humanitarian aid into Gaza, except Hamas will steal the aid for themselves?

[Iceresistance]

This is a good video
 

 

[SilverFallsAndrew]

On 11/1/2023 at 12:57 AM, roadtonowhere08 said:

An extremely well done and unbiased look at how the borders of the Middle East are sources of infinite conflict.

TL;DR: Bloody Britain!  Fekin' France!

Violent folx 

Edited November 2, 2023 by SilverFallsAndrew

[SilverFallsAndrew]

8 hours ago, roadtonowhere08 said:

If any of you have 2 hours to fill, this is the best interview I have seen in a very long time:

Piers ignored all the historical context Bassem went over and rambled on about Oct. 7 and how Israel should properly respond toward the end, but overall this was great.  Kudos to Piers for not trying to make it a circus. 

Less than 10 hours and already 2.2 million views.  There's for hope longform, civil interviews still 

Next you’ll be asking us to consider Adolf Hitlers view on the conflict. Seriously I ll try to watch and see how quickly I become enraged.

Edited November 2, 2023 by SilverFallsAndrew

[Andie]

3 hours ago, Iceresistance said:

Biden is calling for a ceasefire to allow humanitarian aid into Gaza, except Hamas will steal the aid for themselves?

One thing I learned from family in 3 wars is never let the enemy catch its breath.  
war is very ugly.  Most people on this forum have little experience.  
Not saying no one here understands, but one lesson they taught me was once you commit, you don’t back off.  

It should be such they surrender or die.  
It’s why I’m so opposed to war but there are times you cannot avoid it.   
IDS’s enemy are blind radicals.  Only their destination and end will stop them.  General Sherman was right, “All war is hell.”

[hawkstwelve]

12 hours ago, roadtonowhere08 said:

If any of you have 2 hours to fill, this is the best interview I have seen in a very long time:

Piers ignored all the historical context Bassem went over and rambled on about Oct. 7 and how Israel should properly respond toward the end, but overall this was great.  Kudos to Piers for not trying to make it a circus. 

Less than 10 hours and already 2.2 million views.  There's for hope longform, civil interviews still 

Thanks for sharing this. As someone who isn't deeply aware of the long history revolving around this conflict, and accepts the general western narrative that Israel is a beacon of democracy and "American values" in the region, I found this to be a very interesting point of view from Bassem. 

He tries to diminish Hamas a bit more than what is fair, seeing as that we wouldn't be in this particular spot without Hamas's attack on October 7th. Bassem doesn't give that specific action enough heft as what it deserves, IMO. But I can still accept the fact that there is a larger story at play here, one of extreme repression of the Palestinian people, that at least partially explains the reasoning behind the hatred of Israel. The way Hamas went about it? Absolutely horrible, barbaric, epitome of evil actions. They are terrorists through and through and deserve to be wiped the hell off this planet for what they did. The thought process behind it and the suffering of their people though? Slightly more understanding now.

[Iceresistance]

OH!

Exposed: Hamas’s propaganda team (msn.com)

[roadtonowhere08]

1 hour ago, hawkstwelve said:

Thanks for sharing this. As someone who isn't deeply aware of the long history revolving around this conflict, and accepts the general western narrative that Israel is a beacon of democracy and "American values" in the region, I found this to be a very interesting point of view from Bassem. 

He tries to diminish Hamas a bit more than what is fair, seeing as that we wouldn't be in this particular spot without Hamas's attack on October 7th. Bassem doesn't give that specific action enough heft as what it deserves, IMO. But I can still accept the fact that there is a larger story at play here, one of extreme repression of the Palestinian people, that at least partially explains the reasoning behind the hatred of Israel. The way Hamas went about it? Absolutely horrible, barbaric, epitome of evil actions. They are terrorists through and through and deserve to be wiped the hell off this planet for what they did. The thought process behind it and the suffering of their people though? Slightly more understanding now.

I would call that a fair assessment. 

History and context plays a huge role in all of this, and while it does not excuse what Hamas did at all, it does help you understand motive and how we got to this point.

Everything happens for a reason.  The key to preventing it from happening again is to try to take away the ingredients that lead to it.

[SilverFallsAndrew]

7 hours ago, hawkstwelve said:

Thanks for sharing this. As someone who isn't deeply aware of the long history revolving around this conflict, and accepts the general western narrative that Israel is a beacon of democracy and "American values" in the region, I found this to be a very interesting point of view from Bassem. 

He tries to diminish Hamas a bit more than what is fair, seeing as that we wouldn't be in this particular spot without Hamas's attack on October 7th. Bassem doesn't give that specific action enough heft as what it deserves, IMO. But I can still accept the fact that there is a larger story at play here, one of extreme repression of the Palestinian people, that at least partially explains the reasoning behind the hatred of Israel. The way Hamas went about it? Absolutely horrible, barbaric, epitome of evil actions. They are terrorists through and through and deserve to be wiped the hell off this planet for what they did. The thought process behind it and the suffering of their people though? Slightly more understanding now.

Yes they are extremely repressed because they haven’t stopped trying to commit genocide since 1948. Perhaps it’s time for Palestinians to take responsibility for their own actions. Arabs can live in Israeli society. Yet the elected government of the Palestinians calls for genocide of the Jews in their founding charter. The Israelis have made countless capitulations to Palestinians and each one is met with more genocidal fervor directed at Jews. How much freedom can you afford to give people whose stated goal is to kill you. The answer after October 7th is they were given far too much. This history goes back 3500 years at least. 

[SilverFallsAndrew]

6 hours ago, roadtonowhere08 said:

I would call that a fair assessment. 

History and context plays a huge role in all of this, and while it does not excuse what Hamas did at all, it does help you understand motive and how we got to this point.

Everything happens for a reason.  The key to preventing it from happening again is to try to take away the ingredients that lead to it.

IngredienT 

[SilverFallsAndrew]

I remember that fat viper Yasser Arafat smirking at the signing of the Oslo Accords. Knowing he was a step closer to HIS goal of the elimination of Israel, and knowing it would ALWAYS be Israel who would be asked to give up more land, and Israel who would always be scapegoated internationally in a conflict. He was a serpent from the pit of hell. 

[hawkstwelve]

36 minutes ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

Yes they are extremely repressed because they haven’t stopped trying to commit genocide since 1948. Perhaps it’s time for Palestinians to take responsibility for their own actions. Arabs can live in Israeli society. Yet the elected government of the Palestinians calls for genocide of the Jews in their founding charter. The Israelis have made countless capitulations to Palestinians and each one is met with more genocidal fervor directed at Jews. How much freedom can you afford to give people whose stated goal is to kill you. The answer after October 7th is they were given far too much. This history goes back 3500 years at least. 

Bold #1: Not according to that Bassem guy. At least not comfortably. I tend to think he knows at least a little more on this topic than you. 

Bold #2: "Elected" with only 44% of a vote conducted almost two decades ago. 

Otherwise, I generally agree. 

[roadtonowhere08]

More ignorant talking points from Andrew.  I wonder how informed he really is of this topic.  Everything seems to be textbook lies and strawman from the IDF itself.

Shouldn't he be hiding under his bed from the nukes and Armageddon?

[roadtonowhere08]

From the horse's mouth:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/netanyahu-in-2001-america_n_649427

https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-716588

[roadtonowhere08]

And let's throw in Biden just for fun, aye?

 

[roadtonowhere08]

Like I said, history and context matters.

[SilverFallsAndrew]

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2023/11/03/one_sick_war_150003.html

[SilverFallsAndrew]

7 hours ago, roadtonowhere08 said:

Like I said, history and context matters.

I think you should go visit the Holocaust museum. Never again. Israel cannot allow that, they were patient and benevolent with Gaza and Palestinians for decades and all the snake did was bite them. The Palestinians must pay for their sins. 

[Iceresistance]

6 minutes ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

I think you should go visit the Holocaust museum. Never again. Israel cannot allow that, they were patient and benevolent with Gaza and Palestinians for decades and all the snake did was bite them. The Palestinians must pay for their sins. 

My Grandmother was there when we went to DC

[SilverFallsAndrew]

Just now, Iceresistance said:

My Grandmother was there when we went to DC

DC is a great place to visit. Many of the museums are free too, I cannot recommend it more. The willful ignoring of the holocaust and how that informs the Jewish people is unbelievable. The amount of holocaust denial and excuses being made for it on the left right now is sickening. And heartbreaking. 

[Iceresistance]

1 hour ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

DC is a great place to visit. Many of the museums are free too, I cannot recommend it more. The willful ignoring of the holocaust and how that informs the Jewish people is unbelievable. The amount of holocaust denial and excuses being made for it on the left right now is sickening. And heartbreaking. 

If you get rid of history, it will repeat itself

[SnarkyGoblin]

2 hours ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

DC is a great place to visit. Many of the museums are free too, I cannot recommend it more. The willful ignoring of the holocaust and how that informs the Jewish people is unbelievable. The amount of holocaust denial and excuses being made for it on the left right now is sickening. And heartbreaking. 

Where are you reading that "the left" are denying the Holocaust?  X Cable News Network?

Do I get to say that having a "David Duke without the baggage" in a leadership position makes "the right" full of Nazis?  I don't agree with that but I'm annoyed at your extrapolations with literally no link or evidence.

[SnarkyGoblin]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/after-minister-joked-about-nazis-finland-moves-to-criminalize-holocaust-denial/

It's definitely the "left" that has a thriving antisemitism problem.

[Iceresistance]

2 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/after-minister-joked-about-nazis-finland-moves-to-criminalize-holocaust-denial/

It's definitely the "left" that has a thriving antisemitism problem.

Finland did the right thing to make the holocaust denial a big no-no.

[roadtonowhere08]

4 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/after-minister-joked-about-nazis-finland-moves-to-criminalize-holocaust-denial/

It's definitely the "left" that has a thriving antisemitism problem.

If you repeat a lie long enough, it becomes truth in the minds of the weak.

[Iceresistance]

1 hour ago, roadtonowhere08 said:

If you repeat a lie long enough, it becomes truth in the minds of the weak.

This however, is not a lie...

'Dear TikTok': Social media under fire as Israel-Hamas war inflames anti-Jewish hate (msn.com)

[roadtonowhere08]

25 minutes ago, Iceresistance said:

This however, is not a lie...

'Dear TikTok': Social media under fire as Israel-Hamas war inflames anti-Jewish hate (msn.com)

Persecution and bigotry of others is as old as humanity itself.  Jewish people have clearly felt that throughout the centuries.

But that's not what I was talking about.

[SilverFallsAndrew]

1 hour ago, Iceresistance said:

Finland did the right thing to make the holocaust denial a big no-no.

As much as I despise antisemitism, I also believe in free speech. No speech should be criminalized. 

[Iceresistance]

16 minutes ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

As much as I despise antisemitism, I also believe in free speech. No speech should be criminalized. 

The holocaust denial is considered Hate Speech, which is not protected by free speech.

[hawkstwelve]

Interesting read. Sounds like even the Israeli citizens think Netanyahu has to go. 

For Israel, a War Unlike Any Other https://www.wsj.com/articles/for-israel-a-war-unlike-any-other-b8160908

[roadtonowhere08]

1 hour ago, hawkstwelve said:

Interesting read. Sounds like even the Israeli citizens think Netanyahu has to go. 

For Israel, a War Unlike Any Other https://www.wsj.com/articles/for-israel-a-war-unlike-any-other-b8160908

A lot of moderate and liberal Israelis want him gone.  He's a danger to the security of Israel.  As much as the left hate Trump and think he damages the U.S., Netanyahu is 100x worse.  Him and his cabinet of right-wing extremists have made Israel a target of hate and resentment around the world.  And idiots around the world think that all Jews support him so they go after them.

If Israel really wants to improve its image and actually get rid of external threats to it, it desperately needs a far more liberal/moderate leadership and actively pursue a two state solution that is equitable for both sides.  It's going to take time.  The people who make up Hamas et all are not going away any time soon (they are brainwashed), but with subsequent generations, they will be replaced by people who have dignity, purpose, and meaning.  That is the path to peace.

Happy people do not kill.  Miserable people do.

 

[Rubus Leucodermis]

9 hours ago, Iceresistance said:

The holocaust denial is considered Hate Speech, which is not protected by free speech.

That’s true in Canada but not in the USA!

Hate speech is generally protected in the USA, so long as it doesn’t cross the line into other forms of unprotected speech (such as conspiring to commit murder or other crimes), or the torts of libel and slander.

[Phil]

On 10/20/2023 at 1:10 AM, SilverFallsAndrew said:

Anti-semitism is a malignancy. 

I am shocked at how rampant antisemitism has become in this country. I knew it was brewing on college campuses to some extent, but it’s now to the point that something more..drastic needs to be done.

These people are a cancer on society. And it’s always best to treat cancer early, before it spreads.

[roadtonowhere08]

10 minutes ago, Anti Marine Layer said:

There's the Jewish race (from Isaac) and the Arabic race (from Ishmael), and Palestinians are part of the Arabic race.

Once again: 

Jews: https://lupress.cas.lehigh.edu/content/myth-jewish-race

Arabs: https://adc.org/facts-about-arabs-and-the-arab-world/

People need to stop bastardizing biological terms.

[Phil]

FYI: There is no “occupation”, and that land was never “Palestinian”. In fact there is no “Palestine” to begin with. I keep seeing those talking points regurgitated by the usual dimwits and it’s nothing short of embarrassing.

The first known settlers on that land were the Canaanite tribes, one of them being the Israelites. Modern Israelis (and the Lebanese, ironically) are the modern descendants of the Canaanites (significant portion of both populations carry Canaanite DNA).

In fact the modern “Palestinians” have almost zero connection to that land.

1) The first known settlers were an agglomeration of independent Canaanite city-kingdoms, after which there was the theocracy of the twelve tribes of Israel, not “Palestine”.

2) After that, it was the Kingdom of Israel, not “Palestine”.

3) After that were the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah, not “Palestine”.

4) After that came the Babylonian Empire, not “Palestine”.

5) After that came the Persian Empire, not “Palestine”.

6) After that came the empire of Alexander the Great, not “Palestine”.

7) After that it was part of the Seleucid empire, not “Palestine”.

8 ) After that came the Hasmoneans, not “Palestine”.

9) After that came the Roman Empire, not “Palestine”.

10. After that came the Byzantine and Sassanid Empires, not “Palestine”..

11) After that came the Umayyad and Fatimid empires, not “Palestine”.

12) After that it was the Kingdom of Jerusalem, not “Palestine”.

13) After that came the Ayubid Empire, not “Palestine”.

14) After that, it was conquered by the Islamic state of the Mamluks of Egypt. Still not “Palestine”.

15) After that it was conquered and subsumed within the Ottoman Empire. Still not a Palestinian state.

16) After the Ottoman Empire, there was the British Mandate, not “Palestine”.

17) After that came the inception of modern state of Israel, not “Palestine”.

18) It wasn’t until 1967 that the concept of “Palestine” came to be, and it was nothing more than a KGB cold war front against the West.

The whole thing is an antisemitic sham.