snow_wizard Posted November 28, 2015 Report Share Posted November 28, 2015 Every once in a while I take some time to look at the climate of various towns in the NW and was shocked to discover that Seneca OR officially has a semi arid subarctic climate. To meet the criteria a location has to average below 50F 9 months out of the year, and they do meet the criteria. An average low below 38 and extreme minimum of 19 in July certainly help also. It never ceases to amaze me how diverse the climates are in WA and OR. Probably the most diverse anywhere in the country. 1 Quote Death To Warm Anomalies! Winter 2023-24 stats Total Snowfall = 1.0" Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1 Total Hail = 0.0 Total Ice = 0.2 Coldest Low = 13 Lows 32 or below = 45 Highs 32 or below = 3 Lows 20 or below = 3 Highs 40 or below = 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted November 28, 2015 Report Share Posted November 28, 2015 Complex topography will do that sort of thing. My dad used to rent a small house on Lake Chelan, WA when I was a kid, and we'd spend a week or so up there every July or August. I remember loving the dry air and the cottonwoods rustling in the breeze while we'd play that putt-putt golf thing they have on the lakeside. The downside to Western climate, from my perspective, is the lack of frequent severe weather in the summer. I need my thunderstorm fix almost as badly as I need my snow fix. Quote Live Weather Cam: https://www.youtube.com/live/KxlIo8-KVpc?si=xKLCFYWbZieAfyh6 PWS Wunderground https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KMDBETHE62 PWS CWOP/NOAA: https://www.weather.gov/wrh/timeseries?site=F3819&hours=72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Front Ranger Posted November 28, 2015 Report Share Posted November 28, 2015 Complex topography will do that sort of thing. My dad used to rent a small house on Lake Chelan, WA when I was a kid, and we'd spend a week or so up there every July or August. I remember loving the dry air and the cottonwoods rustling in the breeze while we'd play that putt-putt golf thing they have on the lakeside. The downside to Western climate, from my perspective, is the lack of frequent severe weather in the summer. I need my thunderstorm fix almost as badly as I need my snow fix.Not an issue here Quote A forum for the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLI snowman Posted November 28, 2015 Report Share Posted November 28, 2015 Seneca somehow got down to 10 in October, probably -20 or colder this month. Just takes some snowcover and dead gradients and they are game for extreme cold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow_wizard Posted November 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2015 Even their summers have ridiculous low temps. An average low of 37 point something in July is insane! No question the -54 in Feb 1933 is up there with some of the coldest places in the country. Quote Death To Warm Anomalies! Winter 2023-24 stats Total Snowfall = 1.0" Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1 Total Hail = 0.0 Total Ice = 0.2 Coldest Low = 13 Lows 32 or below = 45 Highs 32 or below = 3 Lows 20 or below = 3 Highs 40 or below = 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted November 28, 2015 Report Share Posted November 28, 2015 Not an issue here How frequently do you observe severe weather, locally speaking? When I graduate, I'll be looking to move somewhere I can find work, preferably with a highly variable climate, featuring a little bit of everything. Unfortunately, there aren't many places that meet that criteria without oppressive summer humidity (which I despise more profoundly every year). Also, I enjoy the hurricanes and tropical storms that impact this region every few years, so that would be a loss for me. Quote Live Weather Cam: https://www.youtube.com/live/KxlIo8-KVpc?si=xKLCFYWbZieAfyh6 PWS Wunderground https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KMDBETHE62 PWS CWOP/NOAA: https://www.weather.gov/wrh/timeseries?site=F3819&hours=72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow_wizard Posted November 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2015 How frequently do you observe severe weather, locally speaking? When I graduate, I'll be looking to move somewhere I can find work, preferably with a highly variable climate, featuring a little bit of everything. Unfortunately, there aren't many places that meet that criteria without oppressive summer humidity (which I despise more profoundly every year). Also, I enjoy the hurricanes and tropical storms that impact this region every few years, so that would be a loss for me. Montana has a lot of summer thunderstorms and some of the most extreme temps in the country. Quote Death To Warm Anomalies! Winter 2023-24 stats Total Snowfall = 1.0" Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1 Total Hail = 0.0 Total Ice = 0.2 Coldest Low = 13 Lows 32 or below = 45 Highs 32 or below = 3 Lows 20 or below = 3 Highs 40 or below = 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted November 28, 2015 Report Share Posted November 28, 2015 Montana has a lot of summer thunderstorms and some of the most extreme temps in the country.It's probably one of the most beautiful states in the country, too. There's something magical about mountains that are fully snow covered year-round. I remember it was one of things I marveled over as a kid during our road trips, as seeing snow on the ground in the middle of July was totally foreign to me. Really, the only things keeping me here right now are my girlfriend, and my love for severe weather and hurricane activity. Quote Live Weather Cam: https://www.youtube.com/live/KxlIo8-KVpc?si=xKLCFYWbZieAfyh6 PWS Wunderground https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KMDBETHE62 PWS CWOP/NOAA: https://www.weather.gov/wrh/timeseries?site=F3819&hours=72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Front Ranger Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 How frequently do you observe severe weather, locally speaking? When I graduate, I'll be looking to move somewhere I can find work, preferably with a highly variable climate, featuring a little bit of everything. Unfortunately, there aren't many places that meet that criteria without oppressive summer humidity (which I despise more profoundly every year). Also, I enjoy the hurricanes and tropical storms that impact this region every few years, so that would be a loss for me. Well, we see t-storms a lot during the late spring/summer, with convection off the mountains. There are some around the area probably 40-50% of the days from June-August. As far as severe storms with large hail, strong winds, possible tornadoes, those are also quite common around here but the tornadoes tend to be weak and short-lived. If you like to storm chase, this is a great place to live, unless you are looking for huge twisters. 1 Quote A forum for the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 Well, we see t-storms a lot during the late spring/summer, with convection off the mountains. There are some around the area probably 40-50% of the days from June-August. As far as severe storms with large hail, strong winds, possible tornadoes, those are also quite common around here but the tornadoes tend to be weak and short-lived. If you like to storm chase, this is a great place to live, unless you are looking for huge twisters.Interesting, thanks. So basically the same as here, minus the oppressive humidity, with the benefit of a longer snow season. I'd definitely hit that. I was under the impression Denver had an arid climate w/ long stretches of synoptic boredom. Quote Live Weather Cam: https://www.youtube.com/live/KxlIo8-KVpc?si=xKLCFYWbZieAfyh6 PWS Wunderground https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KMDBETHE62 PWS CWOP/NOAA: https://www.weather.gov/wrh/timeseries?site=F3819&hours=72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Front Ranger Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 Interesting, thanks. So basically the same as here, minus the oppressive humidity, with the benefit of a longer snow season. I'd definitely hit that. I was under the impression Denver had an arid climate w/ long stretches of synoptic boredom. More often during the fall/winter. But the big snowstorms make up for that, at least for me. 1 Quote A forum for the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow_wizard Posted November 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 Interesting, thanks. So basically the same as here, minus the oppressive humidity, with the benefit of a longer snow season. I'd definitely hit that. I was under the impression Denver had an arid climate w/ long stretches of synoptic boredom. The one thing about Denver many aren't aware of is the snow usually melts pretty fast after it falls. Their average snow depth in the winter isn't what you expect given the annual snowfall. Quote Death To Warm Anomalies! Winter 2023-24 stats Total Snowfall = 1.0" Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1 Total Hail = 0.0 Total Ice = 0.2 Coldest Low = 13 Lows 32 or below = 45 Highs 32 or below = 3 Lows 20 or below = 3 Highs 40 or below = 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 The one thing about Denver many aren't aware of is the snow usually melts pretty fast after it falls. Their average snow depth in the winter isn't what you expect given the annual snowfall.Our snowfalls usually melt quickly, too. We had 5 feet of snow on the ground in February 2010, and it didn't stick around for as long as you might think. If I remember correctly, it was largely gone by mid-March. What sucks about our snowfall climo (and it's one of the reasons I want to move) is that's it's extremely feast or famine, especially in recent years. We can go 2-3+ years without a seasonal snowfall total exceeding 10", then get shellacked with 20"+ in 12 hours, followed by another 2-3+ years of misery. It's even worse in the metro areas east of the fall-line. To be statistically blunt, Baltimore/BWI has recorded more 20"+ snowfalls than any major U.S. city (except Boston) during DJF, yet still boasts one of the lower seasonal averages compared to other cities at that latitude. Laughable. Quote Live Weather Cam: https://www.youtube.com/live/KxlIo8-KVpc?si=xKLCFYWbZieAfyh6 PWS Wunderground https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KMDBETHE62 PWS CWOP/NOAA: https://www.weather.gov/wrh/timeseries?site=F3819&hours=72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Front Ranger Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 The one thing about Denver many aren't aware of is the snow usually melts pretty fast after it falls. Their average snow depth in the winter isn't what you expect given the annual snowfall. It's true. But given that we still have snow on the ground most of the time from late Nov - mid March, I'm fine with the frequent melts. I'd rather live in a place that gets lots of big snowstorms, and also lots of thaws, than a place that stays frigid all winter. Quote A forum for the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TT-SEA Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 Our snowfalls usually melt quickly, too. We had 5 feet of snow on the ground in February 2010, and it didn't stick around for as long as you might think. If I remember correctly, it was largely gone by mid-March. What sucks about our snowfall climo (and it's one of the reasons I want to move) is that's it's extremely feast or famine, especially in recent years. We can go 2-3+ years without a seasonal snowfall total exceeding 10", then get shellacked with 20"+ in 12 hours, followed by another 2-3+ years of misery. It's even worse in the metro areas east of the fall-line. To be statistically blunt, BWI airport has recorded more 20"+ snowfalls than any major U.S. city (except Boston), yet still boasts one of the lower seasonal averages compared to other cities at that latitude. Laughable. Very much like Seattle as well. Quote **REPORTED CONDITIONS AND ANOMALIES ARE NOT MEANT TO IMPLY ANYTHING ON A REGIONAL LEVEL UNLESS SPECIFICALLY STATED** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow_wizard Posted November 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 It's true. But given that we still have snow on the ground most of the time from late Nov - mid March, I'm fine with the frequent melts. I'd rather live in a place that gets lots of big snowstorms, and also lots of thaws, than a place that stays frigid all winter. I think the ultimate for me is a place where there is snow on the ground pretty much continuously late Nov to early Mar, but it doesn't get too deep except on infrequent occasions. Then lots of cold and clear weather between snowfalls. That's why Missoula looks so good to me. Quote Death To Warm Anomalies! Winter 2023-24 stats Total Snowfall = 1.0" Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1 Total Hail = 0.0 Total Ice = 0.2 Coldest Low = 13 Lows 32 or below = 45 Highs 32 or below = 3 Lows 20 or below = 3 Highs 40 or below = 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 I think the ultimate for me is a place where there is snow on the ground pretty much continuously late Nov to early Mar, but it doesn't get too deep except on infrequent occasions. Then lots of cold and clear weather between snowfalls. That's why Missoula looks so good to me.I have a strange hunch that you'll end up somewhere in Minnesota or Wisconsin. It's almost deja-vu like. Quote Live Weather Cam: https://www.youtube.com/live/KxlIo8-KVpc?si=xKLCFYWbZieAfyh6 PWS Wunderground https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KMDBETHE62 PWS CWOP/NOAA: https://www.weather.gov/wrh/timeseries?site=F3819&hours=72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Front Ranger Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 I think the ultimate for me is a place where there is snow on the ground pretty much continuously late Nov to early Mar, but it doesn't get too deep except on infrequent occasions. Then lots of cold and clear weather between snowfalls. That's why Missoula looks so good to me. Yeah, I mean I guess before I lived somewhere where it snows all the time I thought the same way. But once you get used to getting snow, you really don't need it on the ground all the time. At least that's how it was for me. Quote A forum for the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TT-SEA Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 I have a strange hunch that you'll end up somewhere in Minnesota or Wisconsin. It's almost deja-vu like. Duluth would be good for him (summer on lake Superior is WAY too cold for me). The Twin Cities has a great climate and is a great place to live but I get the feeling that he does not want to be in a major metro area. Quote **REPORTED CONDITIONS AND ANOMALIES ARE NOT MEANT TO IMPLY ANYTHING ON A REGIONAL LEVEL UNLESS SPECIFICALLY STATED** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bainbridgekid Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 Interesting that their average high in December is 36.4. Doesn't seem that cold considering all the other impressive stats they put up. Quote Everett Snowfall (510 feet elevation) Snow since February 2019: 91" 2023-24: 6" 2022-23: 17.5" 2021-22: 17.75" 2020-21: 14.5” 2019-20: 10.5" 2018-19: 24.75" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bainbridgekid Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 Did someone on here edit the Subarctic climate Wikipedia page? Seneca is in the first paragraph. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subarctic_climate 2 Quote Everett Snowfall (510 feet elevation) Snow since February 2019: 91" 2023-24: 6" 2022-23: 17.5" 2021-22: 17.75" 2020-21: 14.5” 2019-20: 10.5" 2018-19: 24.75" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 Aside from the past few posts, this thread has been a fun read with a lot of good information. Good one Jim! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbrChris Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 My folks live in SE Idaho and I would say the climate is quite variable. In terms of severe weather it's the most prone area west of the Continental Divide, which isn't saying much (as measured by number of SPC watches issued). The Snake River Valley from about Burley to Idaho Falls averages 25-30 thunderstorm days a year, mostly May through September. Surrounding mountains see 40-50 thunderstorm days a year. The area is generally flat and more favorable for tornadoes than elsewhere in the intermountain west...a half dozen reported tornadoes per year as of the last several years. When I was there last July we had storms over the nearby mountains almost every day and cells in the valley about 30% of the days. It's far enough north that systems which pass through southern Canada in summer can introduce a slight risk to that area.As for winter temps highs in the 20s to lower 30s are the norm with lows generally 5-15. Most winters make it to 15 to 25 below in the valley. Idaho Falls has already hit -8 and Pocatello -5 this winter and it's only late Nov. Coldest days generally feature highs of zero to 10 above. Snowfall is decent...about 40 inches in Pocatello, 35 inches in Idaho Falls and 55-60 inches in Rexburg. There's a big snow gradient in the north valley going from Rexburg to Ashton (30 miles, 400 foot elevation increase) where snowfall is closer to 90-100 inches each winter.Summer highs are generally 85 to low 90s with 100 uncommon. Low humidity allows for lows in the 40s to mid 50s most nights even if the highs are 90-95. Thunderstorms in the valley are typically either associated with fronts or monsoonal surges from the desert SW. July and August both see 6-8 thunderstorm days on average in the valley or about 30% of the days (meaning TS or VCTS at the airports). Rainfall is usually but not always light with storms.Dust storms are somewhat common in spring with April and May having the highest mean wind speed at Pocatello and Idaho Falls. Often SW winds blow 30-40 mph with higher gusts as dry cold fronts impact the region in spring. A minor increase in wind is also seen in October. Winter has the lightest winds but arctic outbreaks can drop wind chills into the -30s and -40s every few winters.Schools generally close if the temperature is below -20 or the windchill below -30. Closure for snow alone is extremely rare but most storms are 3-8" in the valleys. A foot in 24-48 hours is uncommon. 1 Quote The Pacific Northwest: Where storms go to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverFallsAndrew Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 I would also note that Seneca hit -48 in February, 1989 too. Quote Snowfall Precip 2022-23: 95.0" 2022-23: 17.39" 2021-22: 52.6" 2021-22: 91.46" 2020-21: 12.0" 2020-21: 71.59" 2019-20: 23.5" 2019-20: 58.54" 2018-19: 63.5" 2018-19: 66.33" 2017-18: 30.3" 2017-18: 59.83" 2016-17: 49.2" 2016-17: 97.58" 2015-16: 11.75" 2015-16: 68.67" 2014-15: 3.5" 2013-14: 11.75" 2013-14: 62.30 2012-13: 16.75" 2012-13: 78.45 2011-12: 98.5" 2011-12: 92.67" It's always sunny at Winters Hill! Fighting the good fight against weather evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverFallsAndrew Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 A fun month to look at for Seneca is October, 2002. An average high of 58.2 and average low of 15.7 for the month. A few quick highlights. 12th: 50/4 14th: 70/9 27th: 59/5 31st: 23/-11 https://climate.usurf.usu.edu/reports/e15daily.php?stn=USC00357675&year=2002&month=10&unit=EN&network=direct:ghcn&sidebar=0 Quote Snowfall Precip 2022-23: 95.0" 2022-23: 17.39" 2021-22: 52.6" 2021-22: 91.46" 2020-21: 12.0" 2020-21: 71.59" 2019-20: 23.5" 2019-20: 58.54" 2018-19: 63.5" 2018-19: 66.33" 2017-18: 30.3" 2017-18: 59.83" 2016-17: 49.2" 2016-17: 97.58" 2015-16: 11.75" 2015-16: 68.67" 2014-15: 3.5" 2013-14: 11.75" 2013-14: 62.30 2012-13: 16.75" 2012-13: 78.45 2011-12: 98.5" 2011-12: 92.67" It's always sunny at Winters Hill! Fighting the good fight against weather evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TT-SEA Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 A fun month to look at for Seneca is October, 2002. An average high of 58.2 and average low of 15.7 for the month. A few quick highlights.12th: 50/414th: 70/927th: 59/531st: 23/-11https://climate.usurf.usu.edu/reports/e15daily.php?stn=USC00357675&year=2002&month=10&unit=EN&network=direct:ghcn&sidebar=0How reliable is that station? On 7/12/2002 they recorded 104/47! Quote **REPORTED CONDITIONS AND ANOMALIES ARE NOT MEANT TO IMPLY ANYTHING ON A REGIONAL LEVEL UNLESS SPECIFICALLY STATED** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luminen Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Look at the difference in snowfall between Richland, OR and Halfway, OR. They're not that far apart by distance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richland,_Oregonhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halfway,_Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverFallsAndrew Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Look at the difference in snowfall between Richland, OR and Halfway, OR. They're not that far apart by distance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richland,_Oregonhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halfway,_OregonThat is pretty amazing. Not a huge difference in elevation. However, notice that Halfway averages over 2X as much precip annually. Therein lies much of the difference. Quote Snowfall Precip 2022-23: 95.0" 2022-23: 17.39" 2021-22: 52.6" 2021-22: 91.46" 2020-21: 12.0" 2020-21: 71.59" 2019-20: 23.5" 2019-20: 58.54" 2018-19: 63.5" 2018-19: 66.33" 2017-18: 30.3" 2017-18: 59.83" 2016-17: 49.2" 2016-17: 97.58" 2015-16: 11.75" 2015-16: 68.67" 2014-15: 3.5" 2013-14: 11.75" 2013-14: 62.30 2012-13: 16.75" 2012-13: 78.45 2011-12: 98.5" 2011-12: 92.67" It's always sunny at Winters Hill! Fighting the good fight against weather evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverFallsAndrew Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 How reliable is that station? On 7/12/2002 they recorded 104/47!I think it is fairly reliable though maybe a little exposed. Given Seneca's elevation 104 seems pretty much the top end of how warm they could get. Quote Snowfall Precip 2022-23: 95.0" 2022-23: 17.39" 2021-22: 52.6" 2021-22: 91.46" 2020-21: 12.0" 2020-21: 71.59" 2019-20: 23.5" 2019-20: 58.54" 2018-19: 63.5" 2018-19: 66.33" 2017-18: 30.3" 2017-18: 59.83" 2016-17: 49.2" 2016-17: 97.58" 2015-16: 11.75" 2015-16: 68.67" 2014-15: 3.5" 2013-14: 11.75" 2013-14: 62.30 2012-13: 16.75" 2012-13: 78.45 2011-12: 98.5" 2011-12: 92.67" It's always sunny at Winters Hill! Fighting the good fight against weather evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow_wizard Posted December 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 I think it is fairly reliable though maybe a little exposed. Given Seneca's elevation 104 seems pretty much the top end of how warm they could get. As much interest as their is in Seneca's climate I'll bet they've made sure it's accurate. The 70-9 day that you gave as an example really caught my eye. Quote Death To Warm Anomalies! Winter 2023-24 stats Total Snowfall = 1.0" Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1 Total Hail = 0.0 Total Ice = 0.2 Coldest Low = 13 Lows 32 or below = 45 Highs 32 or below = 3 Lows 20 or below = 3 Highs 40 or below = 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverFallsAndrew Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 I would consider Seneca more accurate than some of those Mesonet stations that are dotted across SE Oregon. Quote Snowfall Precip 2022-23: 95.0" 2022-23: 17.39" 2021-22: 52.6" 2021-22: 91.46" 2020-21: 12.0" 2020-21: 71.59" 2019-20: 23.5" 2019-20: 58.54" 2018-19: 63.5" 2018-19: 66.33" 2017-18: 30.3" 2017-18: 59.83" 2016-17: 49.2" 2016-17: 97.58" 2015-16: 11.75" 2015-16: 68.67" 2014-15: 3.5" 2013-14: 11.75" 2013-14: 62.30 2012-13: 16.75" 2012-13: 78.45 2011-12: 98.5" 2011-12: 92.67" It's always sunny at Winters Hill! Fighting the good fight against weather evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Front Ranger Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 As much interest as their is in Seneca's climate I'll bet they've made sure it's accurate. The 70-9 day that you gave as an example really caught my eye. That's pretty darn impressive. Rare to see such daily spreads even in these parts. I think the largest I've seen has been something like 57/0. Quote A forum for the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverFallsAndrew Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 That 104 in July of 2002 tied the all-time record high for Seneca which had been set in June 1937. That day was 104/45. Quote Snowfall Precip 2022-23: 95.0" 2022-23: 17.39" 2021-22: 52.6" 2021-22: 91.46" 2020-21: 12.0" 2020-21: 71.59" 2019-20: 23.5" 2019-20: 58.54" 2018-19: 63.5" 2018-19: 66.33" 2017-18: 30.3" 2017-18: 59.83" 2016-17: 49.2" 2016-17: 97.58" 2015-16: 11.75" 2015-16: 68.67" 2014-15: 3.5" 2013-14: 11.75" 2013-14: 62.30 2012-13: 16.75" 2012-13: 78.45 2011-12: 98.5" 2011-12: 92.67" It's always sunny at Winters Hill! Fighting the good fight against weather evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow_wizard Posted December 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 That 104 in July of 2002 tied the all-time record high for Seneca which had been set in June 1937. That day was 104/45. You can certainly always bet on relief at night during a heat wave. Quote Death To Warm Anomalies! Winter 2023-24 stats Total Snowfall = 1.0" Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1 Total Hail = 0.0 Total Ice = 0.2 Coldest Low = 13 Lows 32 or below = 45 Highs 32 or below = 3 Lows 20 or below = 3 Highs 40 or below = 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbrChris Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 I think it is fairly reliable though maybe a little exposed. Given Seneca's elevation 104 seems pretty much the top end of how warm they could get.Seems 2-3 deg too high to me. Idaho Falls at 4700' has never gotten above 102. Granted it's about 500 miles east of Seneca but similar latitude. That said if it's the COOP station and not a RAWS or an automated station I know it has a Stevenson screen and has been QC'd by NWS personnel. Generally for the top end of what's possible east of the Cascades my rule of thumb would be something like this: Elevation: Expected all-time max (potential given long POR) 500': 1161000': 1141500': 1122000': 1102500': 1093000': 1083500': 1064000': 1054500': 1035000': 101 However max recorded highs are as follows:117 at Umatilla (300')114 at Pendleton (1000', 119 is an error)115 at Huntington (2100', farther south and in a canyon)108 at Redmond (3100')107 at Burns (4100', July 12, 2002)106 at Baker City (3450') One reason why Burns might be warmer than expected is the further south latitude versus the Columbia Basin. The effect of latitude is seen by Elko, NV at 5,066' having hit 107 on two occasions (last in 1981) and Salt Lake City also having hit 107 at 4200'. So I'd venture to say that the potential highs are about 1-2 deg higher in southeast OR versus eastern WA. The scale might look a little different in the Great Basin: 2000': 117 (Las Vegas 117, 2000')2500': 1153000': 1133500': 1114000': 109 (Winnemucca 109, 4300')4500': 107 (Reno 108, 4500')5000': 106 (Elko, NV 107, 5100')5500': 1046000': 1036500': 101 (Ely, NV 101, 6400') Further south Phoenix has hit 122 at 1100' and Tucson 117 at 2400' So predicted all-time highs at the same elevation are about 5-7 degrees lower in eastern WA than the Great Basin. High temps are much more influenced by elevation than low temps. Vegetation/land cover (forest vs scrubland or desert) and local humidity (including proximity to water sources like rivers and lakes) as well as topography (narrow canyons heat up more due to a larger surface area to air ratio at the lower elevations) all play a role. 1 Quote The Pacific Northwest: Where storms go to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Front Ranger Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Yeah, latitude definitely plays a role along with elevation for max temps possible in the Western U.S. Here in Denver metro at 5,200-5,400', most reliable stations have max high temps in the 104-108 range...which of course is hotter than any stations at the same elevation in OR/WA/ID. But our latitude is roughly the same as Redding, CA. 1 Quote A forum for the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotncold Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Although not quite as extreme Joseph, Oregon receives more snow. A little lower in elevation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverFallsAndrew Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 If I am not mistaken the all-time lows in the Wallowa Valley are in the mid -30s. Quote Snowfall Precip 2022-23: 95.0" 2022-23: 17.39" 2021-22: 52.6" 2021-22: 91.46" 2020-21: 12.0" 2020-21: 71.59" 2019-20: 23.5" 2019-20: 58.54" 2018-19: 63.5" 2018-19: 66.33" 2017-18: 30.3" 2017-18: 59.83" 2016-17: 49.2" 2016-17: 97.58" 2015-16: 11.75" 2015-16: 68.67" 2014-15: 3.5" 2013-14: 11.75" 2013-14: 62.30 2012-13: 16.75" 2012-13: 78.45 2011-12: 98.5" 2011-12: 92.67" It's always sunny at Winters Hill! Fighting the good fight against weather evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geos Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Interesting facts about Seneca. Never would have thought there was a place outside the highest mountain areas that had a sub arctic climate in the West. I think living in the Denver area would be a pretty awesome area to be in. You can get almost every type of weather there. Western Montana is another area that sees wild fluctuations. I want to ultimately end up in an area that has a fair share of snow, summer thunderstorms (not necessarily severe), no humid summers, and has wild temperature swings - and has mountains. Quote Mercer Island, 350 ft 2021-2022: 11.6", 02/21 2020-2021: 15.6" 2019-2020: ~10" 2018-2019 winter snowfall total: 29.5" 2017-2018: 9.0", 2016-2017: 14.0" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow_wizard Posted December 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 Interesting facts about Seneca. Never would have thought there was a place outside the highest mountain areas that had a sub arctic climate in the West. I think living in the Denver area would be a pretty awesome area to be in. You can get almost every type of weather there. Western Montana is another area that sees wild fluctuations. I want to ultimately end up in an area that has a fair share of snow, summer thunderstorms (not necessarily severe), no humid summers, and has wild temperature swings - and has mountains. Western Montana would be your best bet. Exactly what you describe. I think the western part of the state would be more enjoyable than the central and eastern parts. Even though the areas east of the Rockies are colder overall the west often holds onto cold better in the winter when Chinooks come along. 1 Quote Death To Warm Anomalies! Winter 2023-24 stats Total Snowfall = 1.0" Day with 1" or more snow depth = 1 Total Hail = 0.0 Total Ice = 0.2 Coldest Low = 13 Lows 32 or below = 45 Highs 32 or below = 3 Lows 20 or below = 3 Highs 40 or below = 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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