August 2017 PNW Discussion Thread

[wx_statman]

You mean Nelson?

[Jesse]

The majority of the smoke probably came blasting out of Jesse's ears after seeing the 18z GFS.

Sort of ironic coming from a guy who probably complains about heat ten times more than I do.

[Jesse]

Smoke does inhibit radiational cooling.

As far as I've always been aware it does not.

[Phil]

As far as I've always been aware it does not.

Aerosols radiate too, throughout the IR spectrum. If you have an atmosphere thick with them, the rate of radiative loss from the surface is reduced.

[Jesse]

Aerosols radiate too. If you have an atmosphere thick with them, the rate of radiative loss from the surface is reduced.

Is that why SO2 from volcanic eruptions is such an effective greenhouse gas?

 

I'm sure it all exists along a continuum, but for all practical purposes the particles in smoke block incoming radiation moreso than they inhibit outgoing. Especially compared to say, clouds.

[Phil]

Sort of ironic coming from a guy who probably complains about heat ten times more than I do.

Touché.

[Jesse]

I'm starting to wonder if the short wave advertised to move through Saturday could give us a mini marine push. Would be nice to break up the heat and clear the air a little.

[Phil]

Is that why SiO2 from volcanic eruptions is such an effective greenhouse gas?

 

I'm sure it all exists along a continuum, but for all practical purposes the particles in smoke block incoming radiation moreso than they inhibit outgoing. Especially compared to say, clouds.

SO^2 does act like a GHG in the stratosphere. It warms that domain significantly despite destroying O^3 via accelerated photodissociation.

 

 

However, its re-radiative and reflective properties in conjunction with the curvature of the Earth leads to a cooling in the troposphere.

[Deweydog]

I'm starting to wonder if the short wave advertised to move through Saturday could give us a mini marine push. Would be nice to break up the heat and clear the air a little.

That would be unprecedented.

[Phil]

The daytime cooling effects of tropospheric aerosols are greater than their warming effects. That doesn't mean they don't stunt radiational cooling as well, though.

[Jesse]

SO^2 does act like a GHG in the stratosphere. It warms that domain significantly despite destroying O^3 via accelerated photodissociation.

 

 

However, its re-radiative and reflective properties in conjunction with the curvature of the Earth leads to a cooling in the troposphere.

Fine. Sounds like we are both right, in a way. The radiational cooling inhibition prowess of the water vapor clouds we are all used to far exceed that of smoke, though. I don't think you can argue with that.

[Dave]

The smoke is a dream scenario for Jesse. It diminishes solar radiation but doesn't inhibit radiational cooling.

 

Asthmatics can suck it.

I have noticed an increase in booger production today.  Fortunately for me, boogers are delicious. 

[Phil]

Fine. Sounds like we are both right, in a way. The radiational cooling inhibition prowess of the water vapor clouds we are all used to far exceed that of smoke, though. I don't think you can argue with that.

Yeah, H^2O is significantly more effective as a GHG. Then again, clouds come into the picture since they arise via H^2O.

 

It's still the most prolific GHG, though.

[Jesse]

The daytime cooling effects of tropospheric aerosols are greater than their warming effects. That doesn't mean they don't stunt radiational cooling as well, though.

Well of course. Just look at terrestrial planets with no atmosphere, like Mars. Extreme daytime heating AND radiational cooling!!

 

Having anything between the radiative body and the heat source, including smoke, is obviously going to affect both incoming and outgoing. The degree which smoke inhibits solar warming versus how effectively it holds heat in is less than many things that occur in our day to day weather, though (again, clouds).

[Jesse]

That would be unprecedented.

A lone 89 in a two week stretch of 90 or better would certainly be!

[BLI snowman]

Honestly, it was a pretty dang comfy 102 today. 

[Timmy]

Honestly, it was a pretty dang comfy 102 today.

Been on the river since 2pm. Nice breeze and water is perfect. Best 102 I have had.

[Jesse]

Been on the river since 2pm. Nice breeze and water is perfect. Best 102 I have had.

Geriatricsingles.com fail to deliver?

[VancouverIslandSouth]

The smoke has dispersed a little around Victoria but it seems more like it dispersed through different levels of the atmosphere and there's more near the surface. Definitely more sun getting through late day today and a few parts of city were over 90F. Still 87F here at 7pm, I've got a feeling tonight is going to be a warm one, also a touch humid.

 

Is anyone going to get free windows? Sunday looks dangerously close to surpassing the 89F mark down there, these guys sure picked the wrong year http://cliffmass.blogspot.ca/2017/07/will-you-get-free-windows-on-august-6.html, must be sweating bullets hoping for a marine push or smoke inhibition.

[wx_statman]

A lone 89 in a two week stretch of 90 or better would certainly be!

 

Lets not ruin any more two week stretches of 90 or better, a la 2015.

[Timmy]

Geriatricsingles.com fail to deliver?

102lbs

[Jesse]

102lbs

The very elderly are often quite thin!

[Jesse]

Lets not ruin any more two week stretches of 90 or better, a la 2015.

Two week stretches of 90 or better ruin me.

[ShawniganLake]

The smoke has dispersed a little around Victoria but it seems more like it dispersed through different levels of the atmosphere and there's more near the surface. Definitely more sun getting through late day today and a few parts of city were over 90F. Still 87F here at 7pm, I've got a feeling tonight is going to be a warm one, also a touch humid.

 

Is anyone going to get free windows? Sunday looks dangerously close to surpassing the 89F mark down there, these guys sure picked the wrong year http://cliffmass.blogspot.ca/2017/07/will-you-get-free-windows-on-august-6.html, must be sweating bullets hoping for a marine push or smoke inhibition.

93F here today. Can barely see the hills across the lake for all the smoke.

[wx_statman]

Two week stretches of 90 or better ruin me.

 

It sounds rather faint, but I'm pretty sure I can hear the laughter coming from CA and AZ.

[Jesse]

It sounds rather faint, but I'm pretty sure I can hear the laughter coming from CA and AZ.

There's a reason I don't live down there.

[wx_statman]

There's a reason I don't live down there.

 

Touche. Give me the PNW all day long.

[DareDuck]

97 in Bend today. May be able to dodge 100 after all

[VancouverIslandSouth]

93F here today. Can barely see the hills across the lake for all the smoke.

 

I can't see so much as a hint of the Olympic Mountains across the Juan de Fuca. The latest satellite shows the smoke blasting against them mostly getting funneled up the Juan de Fuca. The valley up there must be catching some of the incoming smoke. Looks a little better up toward Sproat Lake, but that may not last much longer.

[wx_statman]

RECORD EVENT REPORT

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE PORTLAND OREGON

533 PM PDT WED AUG 2 2017
 

...MULTIPLE RECORD HIGH TEMPERATURES SET WEDNESDAY AUGUST 2 2017...
 
 

LOCATION          NEW   OLD / YEAR
 

ASTORIA            93    88 / 1939

HILLSBORO         105    99 / 1939

MCMINNVILLE       106    99 / 1939

PORTLAND AIRPORT  103    96 / 1986

PORTLAND DOWNTOWN 100   100 / 1939

EUGENE            102    99 / 1939

SALEM             107   102 / 1939

TROUTDALE         105    99 / 1993

HOOD RIVER         99    97 / 1952

 

[wx_statman]

Surprising 7 degree spread between downtown Portland and Salem today. I'm reminded of July 23, 1927, which I brought up yesterday to highlight Salem's suspicious record highs. I was willing to dismiss Salem's 108 degree reading that day because downtown Portland was only 101. Well, here we are today...apparently a 7 degree gap is possible under the right circumstances. On 7/23/1927, Bull Run Headworks was 106 and Forest Grove was 103...similar profile to today, with warmer readings to the east and west of Portland proper, as well as south.

[Geos]

Nasty air quality this evening. Hasn't gotten any better. Most stations above 155.

 

https://fortress.wa.gov/ecy/enviwa/

 

Wow, Puyallup coming in at 215 right now.

Port Angeles at 254

[ShawniganLake]

The area burned in BC is up to 1.15 million acres. So there is lots more smoke where this came from.

[TT-SEA]

Nasty air quality this evening. Hasn't gotten any better. Most stations above 155.

 

https://fortress.wa.gov/ecy/enviwa/

 

Wow, Puyallup coming in at 215 right now.

Port Angeles at 254

 

Absolutely disgusting. 

[ShawniganLake]

Kelowna looks to threaten their record dry streak. Their current record is from 2003, the year of the Okanagan firestorm.

 

If it wasn't for 0.02" on June 28th, that record would be in the bag.

[Jesse]

Absolutely disgusting.

You are lucky to be leaving town soon. Montana and points east look much nicer the next several days.

[TT-SEA]

You are lucky to be leaving town soon. Montana and points east look much nicer the next several days.

 

Definitely cleaner and cooler.   Also very wet.  

 

I would love some sunshine and upper 70s and low 80s there but that appears to be quite optimistic.

[TT-SEA]

Relief out here on the GFS after day 10. 

 

[ShawniganLake]

Relief out here on the GFS after day 10.

 

Incoming hurricane for the SE. The Atlantic might be getting ready to come to life.

[VancouverIslandSouth]

Kelowna looks to threaten their record dry streak. Their current record is from 2003, the year of the Okanagan firestorm.

 

If it wasn't for 0.02" on June 28th, that record would be in the bag.

 

The 0z GFS and GEM continue the heat until at least late next week. Probably means more offshore flow and smoke. Even in the longer range when the GFS has it cooling off it still flirts with bouts of offshore flow. We need a good drenching right now to clear the air.