Polite Politics

[Iceresistance]

12 minutes ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

Video clip of Ramasmarmy calling Ukraine’s Jewish president a “Nazi.”

 

Welp, he's done for. FOR THAT!

[SilverFallsAndrew]

1 hour ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

Lol.  Can't help yourself.

Try veneers.

Nothing wrong with dentures. 

[SilverFallsAndrew]

24 minutes ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

Video clip of Ramasmarmy calling Ukraine’s Jewish president a “Nazi.”

 

[SilverFallsAndrew]

I am going to say it now, I don't know if I will vote for Trump or not. But I can say with confidence I will not vote for Haley if she is the nominee. 

[Rubus Leucodermis]

Just now, SilverFallsAndrew said:

I am going to say it now, I don't know if I will vote for Trump or not[1]. But I can say with confidence I will not vote for Haley if she is the nominee[2]. 

[1] Why?

[2] Why not?

[SilverFallsAndrew]

3 minutes ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

[1] Why?

[2] Why not?

1) I do not actually like Trump, despite what some may believe. 

2) I may potentially consider her in a lesser of two evils scenario, but I just do not see her as someone who would be effective or do much to effect positive change on issues I care about. 

[SnarkyGoblin]

Manchin is not running in 2024 for the Senator of West Virginia

Dems better step up and pull a JFK in that state.

[Iceresistance]

Someone is being a little stubborn

Democrat Refuses to Concede Election Defeat Despite No 'Path to Victory' (msn.com)

[Rubus Leucodermis]

36 minutes ago, Iceresistance said:

Someone is being a little stubborn

Democrat Refuses to Concede Election Defeat Despite No 'Path to Victory' (msn.com)

Current margin is under 1% which puts it in mandatory recount territory per Virginia law (as mentioned in the article).

[SnarkyGoblin]

1 hour ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

1) I do not actually like Trump, despite what some may believe.

Even if Tucker Carlson was his running mate?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4301977-trump-tucker-carlson-running-mate/amp/

[SilverFallsAndrew]

16 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

Even if Tucker Carlson was his running mate?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4301977-trump-tucker-carlson-running-mate/amp/

Game changer!

[BLI snowman]

On 11/8/2023 at 2:55 PM, hawkstwelve said:

I took screenshots of RCP averages prior to each debate. The first one below is before the first debate while the second one below is the current standings. 

Undoubtedly Haley has seen the largest benefit from the debates while almost everyone else outside of Trump has gone down in support. Hopefully she can keep up the momentum tonight! 

 

 

Meanwhile Trump has gained more support than anyone else has by simply NOT debating. Up over 4 percent from a few months ago.

Has to be seen as effectively clinching the nomination for him at this point.

Edited November 9, 2023 by BLI snowman

[BLI snowman]

2 hours ago, Iceresistance said:

Someone is being a little stubborn

Democrat Refuses to Concede Election Defeat Despite No 'Path to Victory' (msn.com)

Loren Culp 2020

[Iceresistance]

Nikki Haley is eyed the winner for the 3rd debate, one of the best candidates yet!

Daily Briefing: Who won the third GOP debate? (msn.com)

[Iceresistance]

ARE YOU SERIOUS!?

Biden Rolls Out ‘Breathtaking’ New Pronoun Policy (msn.com)

[Hoosier]

8 hours ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

Manchin is not running in 2024 for the Senator of West Virginia

Dems better step up and pull a JFK in that state.

That's a problem for the Dems, to say the least.

Is there another Democrat on planet Earth that can win statewide in West Virginia?  

[Hoosier]

3 hours ago, Iceresistance said:

Nikki Haley is eyed the winner for the 3rd debate, one of the best candidates yet!

Daily Briefing: Who won the third GOP debate? (msn.com)

Haley has done well in the debates.  I think Desantis has been getting better as well.

But it's still this bizarre situation where nobody on that stage has much of a chance of being the nominee.

[hawkstwelve]

6 hours ago, BLI snowman said:

Meanwhile Trump has gained more support than anyone else has by simply NOT debating. Up over 4 percent from a few months ago.

Has to be seen as effectively clinching the nomination for him at this point.

I agree, especially when most of them refuse to really hit him on anything substantive. You can't beat a 30-40 point deficit by taking soft shots at him. Yet that is all they seemingly want to do. "He should be here at this debate!" OK, Ron, real tough guy. I'm sure that'll scare him. I'm sure that'll get you into first place. 

As time is running out it's becoming more apparent that none of them are playing for first place. Haley's probably hoping for a strong enough showing to make her viable in 2028, DeSantis got unwillingly dragged into it and it shows, Scott is auditioning for the local church pastor opening, Ramaswamy is trying to take the MAGA mantle but knows he'll need a VP slot first to build political acumen so is cozying up to Trump, and Christie is just pissed Trump never picked him for a cabinet position. 

We are looking at Trump vs. Biden again and it blows my mind. Either our primary system is completely broken or I give the American people way more credit than they deserve.

[roadtonowhere08]

11 minutes ago, hawkstwelve said:

We are looking at Trump vs. Biden again and it blows my mind. Either our primary system is completely broken or I give the American people way more credit than they deserve.

I think both are true. 

For all the resources at our disposal to learn and grow our minds, we really are a collective bunch of morons.

[roadtonowhere08]

10 hours ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

Video clip of Ramasmarmy calling Ukraine’s Jewish president a “Nazi.”

 

Swampy is such a little yappy dog.  He needs to go away.

[Minny_Weather]

16 hours ago, Hoosier said:

That's a problem for the Dems, to say the least.

Is there another Democrat on planet Earth that can win statewide in West Virginia?  

Heavily unlikely, much like it is unlikely that Vermont will ever have a Republican governor in the next 100 years after Phil Scott leaves office.

[Andie]

And now for something completely different…..well, - not so much.  

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2023/nov/11/feds-peruse-client-list-of-powerful-johns-after-bu/

[SnarkyGoblin]

Tim Scott is out.

[hawkstwelve]

51 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

Tim Scott is out.

About time. Christie next, please. 

[SnarkyGoblin]

Taking an online inclusive training at work that I'm pretty sure some of you would find offensive (somehow...)

[hawkstwelve]

19 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

Taking an online inclusive training at work that I'm pretty sure some of you would find offensive (somehow...)

"... that men are naturally more scientifically inclined than people of other genders." 

Stopped reading right there. That line tells you all you need to know about the source of this training. Just another case of an otherwise at least semi-understandable point that inserts woke crap into it and undermines the argument. Leave that sh*t out and maybe these trainings wouldn't be quite as controversial as they are now. 

[SnarkyGoblin]

6 minutes ago, hawkstwelve said:

"... that men are naturally more scientifically inclined than people of other genders." 

Stopped reading right there. That line tells you all you need to know about the source of this training. Just another case of an otherwise at least semi-understandable point that inserts woke crap into it and undermines the argument. Leave that sh*t out and maybe these trainings wouldn't be quite as controversial as they are now. 

What undermines the training?  The acknowledgement that there are more than 2 genders?

[Deweydog]

44 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

Taking an online inclusive training at work that I'm pretty sure some of you would find offensive (somehow...)

[Rubus Leucodermis]

12 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

What undermines the training?  The acknowledgement that there are more than 2 genders?

Maybe I should start identifying as nonbinary just to piss people off.

Seriously, though, why should I care if my neighbour identifies as nonbinary? Doesn't affect me. To paraphrase Jefferson on religion, neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.

[Anti Marine Layer]

1 hour ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

Taking an online inclusive training at work that I'm pretty sure some of you would find offensive (somehow...)

What about Marie Curie?

[hawkstwelve]

48 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

What undermines the training?  The acknowledgement that there are more than 2 genders?

Good Lord... There are not more than two genders. 

Any institution, especially one that provides training, who disregards science and biology so openly should be considered an activist organization. If you want to get DEI training from an activist organization, be my guest. But it's crap like that which gives DEI a bad rap, among other things. 

[SnarkyGoblin]

48 minutes ago, hawkstwelve said:

Good Lord... There are not more than two genders. 

Any institution, especially one that provides training, who disregards science and biology so openly should be considered an activist organization. If you want to get DEI training from an activist organization, be my guest. But it's crap like that which gives DEI a bad rap, among other things. 

So the people out there who don't feel like they are a boy or girl are just lying?  What gain do they have doing that?

[hawkstwelve]

4 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

So the people out there who don't feel like they are a boy or girl are just lying?  What gain do they have doing that?

They are confused, lost, searching for identity and meaning in their life. They have probably been told by people like you that they can 'be whatever they want to be' and now have no idea what they even want to be. They don't know their place in society, they don't know their role, they don't know what they can inherently provide to a family. So they jump from social issue to social issue, latching on to whatever TikTok trend or Democrat-led fad is being pushed at the time - constantly trying to find somewhere to fit in, somewhere to gain meaning.

I was at a restaurant a few years back in Redmond, WA. Sitting at a table across the aisle from us was a mother and her young son, probably only 4 or 5 years old. The waiter comes over and says, "Hey guys, how's it going? What can I get for you?" The mother than turns to the waiter and says, "Can you please not use the word 'guys' to describe us? I don't want a construct forced upon my child. We are letting our child determine what they'd like to be called and they haven't come to a decision yet."

Do you think any harm was being done to that child? Do you think that child will grow up to understand his role in the world? Do you think it would be better to give that child some guardrails in life? Do you think that child should be more focused on what he wants to eat in a restaurant, what his mom packed in his lunchbox at school, who he's going to play with at recess - or should he be focused on something that cannot be changed? Should he be focused on something like gender ideology at the very impressionable young age of five, or should he be focused on what being a young boy means in today's world?

I realize I'm getting into some thorny weeds here but I firmly believe, no matter how innocent the mom might make it seem or her intentions may be, that child is being forced into something that will do more harm than good. He will grow up with no sense of identity because when you can "be whatever you want to be" often times you have no idea what you want to be. So you'll fill that void with whatever your peers tell you you are. That's not healthy. That's not constructive. That doesn't foster a sense of self. 

[Jim Tezeta]

Doctor says I am shooting blanks these days so gender doesn’t matter much to me. 

[Minny_Weather]

19 minutes ago, Jim Tezeta said:

Doctor says I am shooting blanks these days so gender doesn’t matter much to me. 

You don't need a doctor to tell you that.

[Iceresistance]

59 minutes ago, hawkstwelve said:

They are confused, lost, searching for identity and meaning in their life. They have probably been told by people like you that they can 'be whatever they want to be' and now have no idea what they even want to be. They don't know their place in society, they don't know their role, they don't know what they can inherently provide to a family. So they jump from social issue to social issue, latching on to whatever TikTok trend or Democrat-led fad is being pushed at the time - constantly trying to find somewhere to fit in, somewhere to gain meaning.

I was at a restaurant a few years back in Redmond, WA. Sitting at a table across the aisle from us was a mother and her young son, probably only 4 or 5 years old. The waiter comes over and says, "Hey guys, how's it going? What can I get for you?" The mother than turns to the waiter and says, "Can you please not use the word 'guys' to describe us? I don't want a construct forced upon my child. We are letting our child determine what they'd like to be called and they haven't come to a decision yet."

Do you think any harm was being done to that child? Do you think that child will grow up to understand his role in the world? Do you think it would be better to give that child some guardrails in life? Do you think that child should be more focused on what he wants to eat in a restaurant, what his mom packed in his lunchbox at school, who he's going to play with at recess - or should he be focused on something that cannot be changed? Should he be focused on something like gender ideology at the very impressionable young age of five, or should he be focused on what being a young boy means in today's world?

I realize I'm getting into some thorny weeds here but I firmly believe, no matter how innocent the mom might make it seem or her intentions may be, that child is being forced into something that will do more harm than good. He will grow up with no sense of identity because when you can "be whatever you want to be" often times you have no idea what you want to be. So you'll fill that void with whatever your peers tell you you are. That's not healthy. That's not constructive. That doesn't foster a sense of self. 

Also add that the hospitals may do it for profit, and possible exploitation of children

[Meatyorologist]

2 hours ago, hawkstwelve said:

They are confused, lost, searching for identity and meaning in their life. They have probably been told by people like you that they can 'be whatever they want to be' and now have no idea what they even want to be. They don't know their place in society, they don't know their role, they don't know what they can inherently provide to a family. So they jump from social issue to social issue, latching on to whatever TikTok trend or Democrat-led fad is being pushed at the time - constantly trying to find somewhere to fit in, somewhere to gain meaning.

I was at a restaurant a few years back in Redmond, WA. Sitting at a table across the aisle from us was a mother and her young son, probably only 4 or 5 years old. The waiter comes over and says, "Hey guys, how's it going? What can I get for you?" The mother than turns to the waiter and says, "Can you please not use the word 'guys' to describe us? I don't want a construct forced upon my child. We are letting our child determine what they'd like to be called and they haven't come to a decision yet."

Do you think any harm was being done to that child? Do you think that child will grow up to understand his role in the world? Do you think it would be better to give that child some guardrails in life? Do you think that child should be more focused on what he wants to eat in a restaurant, what his mom packed in his lunchbox at school, who he's going to play with at recess - or should he be focused on something that cannot be changed? Should he be focused on something like gender ideology at the very impressionable young age of five, or should he be focused on what being a young boy means in today's world?

I realize I'm getting into some thorny weeds here but I firmly believe, no matter how innocent the mom might make it seem or her intentions may be, that child is being forced into something that will do more harm than good. He will grow up with no sense of identity because when you can "be whatever you want to be" often times you have no idea what you want to be. So you'll fill that void with whatever your peers tell you you are. That's not healthy. That's not constructive. That doesn't foster a sense of self. 

That first paragraph is incredibly judgmental. You definitely don't talk to anyone who's had those kinds of thoughts, and you're filling in with your own presumptions based off your own experiences with identity trouble. That little anecdote is cute and sure does help your 'point' out, but unfortunately anecdotes don't reflect reality perfectly. I've never seen anything like that in person living in Seattle, and the vast majority of people I interact with do not think we should shelter kids from gender constructs. That's a ridiculous fringe leftwing opinion, similar to how being MAGA today is extremely rightwing.

This post oozes with agoraphobic judgement. Just because people disagree with you doesn't mean they're mindless husks drifting from trend to manufactured trend. Maybe you just don't understand what they're trying to say yet because you've lived your life from the point of view you have, instead of theirs.

[hawkstwelve]

33 minutes ago, Meatyorologist said:

That first paragraph is incredibly judgmental. You definitely don't talk to anyone who's had those kinds of thoughts, and you're filling in with your own presumptions based off your own experiences with identity trouble. That little anecdote is cute and sure does help your 'point' out, but unfortunately anecdotes don't reflect reality perfectly. I've never seen anything like that in person living in Seattle, and the vast majority of people I interact with do not think we should shelter kids from gender constructs. That's a ridiculous fringe leftwing opinion, similar to how being MAGA today is extremely rightwing.

This post oozes with agoraphobic judgement. Just because people disagree with you doesn't mean they're mindless husks drifting from trend to manufactured trend. Maybe you just don't understand what they're trying to say yet because you've lived your life from the point of view you have, instead of theirs.

No anecdote captures reality perfectly, that's why it's an anecdote. I never claimed in that post that the mother was a perfect encapsulation of leftwing liberals, just to be clear. I simply used it as a tool to prove my point.

And really, it's not all that outlandish. Literally a couple seasons ago on Survivor Jeff Probst kicked the show off by asking contestants if his usual "Come on in guys!" saying that he used for two decades was offensive to anyone. Then, of course, someone said it was so he said he would change it to just "Come on in!" So it's not just some backroom theory that only a fringe minority of left wing liberals believe. It's common enough where a TV show with 5+ million people watching felt the need to bring it up.

I got asked if there weren't two genders, "why do people say they don't feel like a boy or a girl? Are they just lying?" so I gave my opinion based on my life. Of course I'm not going to be able to speak from someone else's POV because I've never lived a day in their shoes. But that doesn't necessarily negate my opinion or make it any less valid. That's the great thing about opinions - they can be whatever you want them to be based on your own personal life.

I will say I have a few close family members that fall into this lane. I've had numerous conversations with them, all college-aged, in which they say they are struggling to find their place in society. A cousin (girl) has said she was told within schools that she didn't have to live within the confines of what a typical 'girl' is so she decided to cut off all her hair, wear masculine clothing, and refuse any typical 'woman' role within her life. Yet she gets frustrated because she has difficulty finding men who accept her like this. So now she doesn't know if she should lean more into the feminine side and role of being a woman or stick with this 'whatever you want to be' idea. One might say that the onus falls on men to "accept her as she is" or make some excuse about how society hinders her original line of thinking but I would say that's exactly my point - She is making it needlessly hard on herself. It's to the point now of not knowing who she should act like or where she fits in the world all because she got told she could "be whatever gender you want to be" and decided to give it a shot. That doesn't help her, that doesn't help the men she's trying to date, that doesn't help anyone besides some liberal teachers who want to push some crap on her because it makes them feel better about themselves. Now you'll probably just write this off as another anecdote but it's one that proves it's not some one-off thing like you are trying to make it out to be. Of course in the original example it was a child, which it sounds like we might agree is a little more egregious, but it's a similar point.

Again, I realize this is a thorny topic and as an admin I probably should just leave it here, especially since this a politics thread and not gender ideology. Please realize I'm not trying to offend anyone lest I be called a bigot or something. Just trying to articulate an opposing viewpoint and how this 'you can be whatever gender you want to be' doesn't sound as innocuous as a section of the country makes it out to be. It's complicated in that while you can make a case that you are allowing more personal freedom by tearing away societal norms and encouraging people to 'live their true self', it can also be just as damaging to a persons psyche, especially among younger impressionable people who haven't found their place in the world yet.

[SilverFallsAndrew]

6 hours ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

Maybe I should start identifying as nonbinary just to piss people off.

Seriously, though, why should I care if my neighbour identifies as nonbinary? Doesn't affect me. To paraphrase Jefferson on religion, neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.

Beat you to it. 

[Meatyorologist]

56 minutes ago, hawkstwelve said:

No anecdote captures reality perfectly, that's why it's an anecdote. I never claimed in that post that the mother was a perfect encapsulation of leftwing liberals, just to be clear. I simply used it as a tool to prove my point.

And really, it's not all that outlandish. Literally a couple seasons ago on Survivor Jeff Probst kicked the show off by asking contestants if his usual "Come on in guys!" saying that he used for two decades was offensive to anyone. Then, of course, someone said it was so he said he would change it to just "Come on in!" So it's not just some backroom theory that only a fringe minority of left wing liberals believe. It's common enough where a TV show with 5+ million people watching felt the need to bring it up.

I got asked if there weren't two genders, "why do people say they don't feel like a boy or a girl? Are they just lying?" so I gave my opinion based on my life. Of course I'm not going to be able to speak from someone else's POV because I've never lived a day in their shoes. But that doesn't necessarily negate my opinion or make it any less valid. That's the great thing about opinions - they can be whatever you want them to be based on your own personal life.

I will say I have a few close family members that fall into this lane. I've had numerous conversations with them, all college-aged, in which they say they are struggling to find their place in society. A cousin (girl) has said she was told within schools that she didn't have to live within the confines of what a typical 'girl' is so she decided to cut off all her hair, wear masculine clothing, and refuse any typical 'woman' role within her life. Yet she gets frustrated because she has difficulty finding men who accept her like this. So now she doesn't know if she should lean more into the feminine side and role of being a woman or stick with this 'whatever you want to be' idea. One might say that the onus falls on men to "accept her as she is" or make some excuse about how society hinders her original line of thinking but I would say that's exactly my point - She is making it needlessly hard on herself. It's to the point now of not knowing who she should act like or where she fits in the world all because she got told she could "be whatever gender you want to be" and decided to give it a shot. That doesn't help her, that doesn't help the men she's trying to date, that doesn't help anyone besides some liberal teachers who want to push some crap on her because it makes them feel better about themselves. Now you'll probably just write this off as another anecdote but it's one that proves it's not some one-off thing like you are trying to make it out to be. Of course in the original example it was a child, which it sounds like we might agree is a little more egregious, but it's a similar point.

Again, I realize this is a thorny topic and as an admin I probably should just leave it here, especially since this a politics thread and not gender ideology. Please realize I'm not trying to offend anyone lest I be called a bigot or something. Just trying to articulate an opposing viewpoint and how this 'you can be whatever gender you want to be' doesn't sound as innocuous as a section of the country makes it out to be. It's complicated in that while you can make a case that you are allowing more personal freedom by tearing away societal norms and encouraging people to 'live their true self', it can also be just as damaging to a persons psyche, especially among younger impressionable people who haven't found their place in the world yet.

Your opinion isn't simple and is quite nuanced, and I appreciate that. I'm not trying to take your argument in bad faith; quite the opposite actually, you don't need to worry about me calling you a bad person. "Pushing agendas" onto kids is never going to work out, I agree. But I think there's more validity to being transgender than you let on. My issue is that you are simply projecting onto people you've never met on the basis of insecurity. From my vantage point, as someone who's been in your position, while that usually does explain the actions of committed youth quite well, in this case it more closely serves as a weak pseudo-intellectual copout that completely dismisses the lived experience of millions of people. 

Sure, I bet a good portion of people who outwardly identify as transgender are in fact just confused and insecure. That's why we should leave the experimentation for adulthood, when the brain is more fully developed and the identity is centered more around thoughts and actions and opinions than the body. We agree on that.

However... I argue that you being unable to put yourselves into the shoes of individuals who identify as transsexual really does invalidate your understanding of them, at least in this situation. And that's okay... We don't all know everything and we don't always have the right ideas in every situation. Opinions aren't some inalienable right you were endowed with that you protect with all your will. They're your specific point of view -- your own springboard to jump off of and build the foundations for a stronger, more cohesive position. You seem like a smart person and I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you already at the least sort of know where I'm coming from.