July 2023 PNW Observations and Discussions

[Omegaraptor]

1 hour ago, Cold Snap said:

79 degrees on July 13, 1993.

Wonder what July 1993 was like in other places.

[Rubus Leucodermis]

7 minutes ago, TT-SEA said:

That is the problem in a nutshell... these demonstrably false and hyperbolic statements from the alarmists about global warming then allows the other side to dismiss everything entirely.   Be careful about crying wolf.  

Oh, please, the "other side" has been denying anthropogenic climate change for decades, well before it became a pet cause of the environmental movement. It goes back at least to Exxon covering up their own internal report showing it was an issue.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/exxon-knew-about-climate-change-almost-40-years-ago/

One side: 2+2=-367

Other side: actually, 2+2=5

Tim, Phil, etc: Look what you did! you made the first side lie! I will now tirelessly report about every inaccuracy you make.

[TT-SEA]

1 minute ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

Oh, please, the "other side" has been denying anthropogenic climate change for decades, well before it became a pet cause of the environmental movement. It goes back at least to Exxon covering up their own internal report showing it was an issue.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2016/jun/03/hillary-clinton/yes-donald-trump-did-call-climate-change-chinese-h/

One side: 2+2=-367

Other side: actually, 2+2=5

Tim, Phil, etc: Look what you did! you made the first side lie! I will now tirelessly report about every inaccuracy you make.

Point is... alarmists seriously hurt the effort.   But that is just part of a polarized, clickbait social media saturated landscape and won't be changing any time soon.     

[Deweydog]

5 minutes ago, Omegaraptor said:

Wonder what July 1993 was like in other places.

Non-emergent here. 

[MossMan]

17 minutes ago, TT-SEA said:

18Z GFS spreads the rain a little farther south.    This all comes Monday night into Tuesday morning.

Would be amazing if we could get this on every Monday through September! 

[TT-SEA]

2 minutes ago, MossMan said:

Would be amazing if we could get this on every Monday through September! 

Put me in the blue and then repeat every Monday.  

[Cold Snap]

22 minutes ago, Omegaraptor said:

Wonder what July 1993 was like in other places.

That month was a blessing at SEA and PDX. Plenty of days with highs in the 60s and 70s.

[the_convergence_zone]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

Narrative versus reality.

#1 CWG tweet.

#2 meteorological summer 2023, to date.

Hard not to burst out laughing sometimes.  But it’s also kinda sad to watch. These people are slipping into mental illness and nobody is there to help them.

That anomaly map is relative to the 1991-2020 normal, so it really shouldn't be used in any debate about climate change...

But your point does stand, the climate system is complex and it's very hard for the average person who doesn't obsess about the weather to contextualize what a 1-1.5 degree C increase means for their day-to-day life. Some of the activists have gotten where they are with sensationalist messaging, which unfortunately is often not based in reality and tends to do more harm than good. Some scientists respond by educating and clarifying, others respond with sarcastic tweets and easy dunks. 

It's tough to message, especially when nobody really knows how much of "record-breaking temperatures on every continent" can be attributed to ENSO, Tonga, shipping aerosols, other natural variability, climate change, etc. 

 

[Rubus Leucodermis]

26 minutes ago, TT-SEA said:

Point is... alarmists seriously hurt the effort.   But that is just part of a polarized, clickbait social media saturated landscape and won't be changing any time soon.     

I'm not so sure, it depends on how much lack of truthfulness is intrinsically harmful to political rhetoric. From what I have seen, not much. If factual accuracy was of prime importance in politics, politics would be so vastly different as to be virtually indistinguishable (and it would have damaged the political fortunes the denier camp vastly more than it has).

[Cloud]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

Narrative versus reality.

#1 CWG tweet.

#2 meteorological summer 2023, to date.

Hard not to burst out laughing sometimes.  But it’s also kinda sad to watch. These people are slipping into mental illness and nobody is there to help them.

This is what you call fear mongering. Such platforms allows these people to do so. 

[Cold Snap]

Up to 76 for the day now.

[TigerWoodsLibido]

BOOM!! 90F burger again!

[Phil]

41 minutes ago, the_convergence_zone said:

That anomaly map is relative to the 1991-2020 normal, so it really shouldn't be used in any debate about climate change...

But your point does stand, the climate system is complex and it's very hard for the average person who doesn't obsess about the weather to contextualize what a 1-1.5 degree C increase means for their day-to-day life. Some of the activists have gotten where they are with sensationalist messaging, which unfortunately is often not based in reality and tends to do more harm than good. Some scientists respond by educating and clarifying, others respond with sarcastic tweets and easy dunks. 

It's tough to message, especially when nobody really knows how much of "record-breaking temperatures on every continent" can be attributed to ENSO, Tonga, shipping aerosols, other natural variability, climate change, etc. 

 

Point is that rhetoric implies something historic, when in fact meteorological summer (to date) has actually been cooler than the 30 year average. In fact it’s pretty close to the post-WWII average.

The late July pattern will increase the average, but it may not persist very long.

[Rubus Leucodermis]

34 minutes ago, TigerWoodsLibido said:

BOOM!! 90F burger again!

Your streak will soon end.

[SilverFallsAndrew]

I’m in Klamath Falls now and it’s absolutely cooking out there! 99 on the car thermometer!

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

The man you voted for President in 2020 said something very similar:

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2016/jun/03/hillary-clinton/yes-donald-trump-did-call-climate-change-chinese-h/

 

Can you find something more recent than a decade-old quote from the orange blimp in chief?

I actually don’t remember if I voted for him or not. Because I live in Maryland I can protest vote for whomever I want, and it won’t mean jack.  

Definitely not voting for Joe, though. Assuming he actually makes it to ‘24. If he doesn’t maybe I’ll write his name in, lol.

[Rubus Leucodermis]

2 minutes ago, Phil said:

Can you find something more recent than a decade-old quote from the orange blimp in chief?

I actually don’t remember if I voted for him or not. Because I live in Maryland I can protest vote for whomever I want, and it won’t mean jack.  

Definitely not voting for Joe, though. Assuming he actually makes it to ‘24. If he doesn’t maybe I’ll write his name in, lol.

It only matters when the left does it, amirite?

[Rubus Leucodermis]

78.8˚F after a max of 79.2˚F. Another 80-burger denied!

[YahRaEl]

75° so far at SEA let's see how much more it goes up next two hours, probably another 1-2°

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

Oh, please, the "other side" has been denying anthropogenic climate change for decades, well before it became a pet cause of the environmental movement. It goes back at least to Exxon covering up their own internal report showing it was an issue.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/exxon-knew-about-climate-change-almost-40-years-ago/

One side: 2+2=-367

Other side: actually, 2+2=5

Tim, Phil, etc: Look what you did! you made the first side lie! I will now tirelessly report about every inaccuracy you make.

This is load of crap, but clearly you’ve made up your mind.

Do you actually believe oil companies had secret climate science knowledge unbeknownst to the rest of the scientific community? Please tell me you’re not that gullible.

[Rubus Leucodermis]

Just now, Phil said:

This is load of crap, but clearly you’ve made up your mind.

Do you actually believe oil companies had secret climate science knowledge unbeknownst to the rest of the scientific community? Please tell me you’re not that gullible.

Take it up with SciAm, they reported it, and I regard them as a typically reliable source.

Corporations have tried to hush up a lot of things. Go research the tobacco and asbestos industries sometime.

[Deweydog]

@Front Ranger

[Phil]

8 minutes ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

It only matters when the left does it, amirite?

When they do what?

I don’t know anyone who is turning to orange man for climate change advice. But my social circle is definitely left of center, so perhaps that’s to be expected.

[SilverFallsAndrew]

Don’t we have a thread for this?

[Rubus Leucodermis]

3 minutes ago, Phil said:

When they do what?

I don’t know anyone who is turning to orange man for climate change advice. But my social circle is definitely left of center, so perhaps that’s to be expected.

Nothing. My bad, you are clearly an impartial arbiter of truth, without bias.

[Phishy Wx]

 

[Omegaraptor]

1 hour ago, Cold Snap said:

That month was a blessing at SEA and PDX. Plenty of days with highs in the 60s and 70s.

Came after a very thoroughly cold winter and very thunderstormy May. Very interesting weather year.

Tim probably would have enjoyed the fall of 1993 though. Basically took until early December for the rainy season to start.

[Phishy Wx]

1 minute ago, Omegaraptor said:

Came after a very thoroughly cold winter and very thunderstormy May. Very interesting weather year.

Tim probably would have enjoyed the fall of 1993 though. Basically took until early December for the rainy season to start.

foreshadowing

[SilverFallsAndrew]

6 minutes ago, Phishy Wx said:

 

And this is why no one takes you seriously on this topic. Lol

[Phil]

2 minutes ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

Take it up with SciAm, they reported it, and I regard them as a typically reliable source.

Corporations have tried to hush up a lot of things. Go research the tobacco and asbestos industries sometime.

Ah, well there’s your problem. You take what you read at face value, even when it comes from sources that are non-objective and/or have conflicts of interest.

This is precisely how people cross the event horizon into the black hole of radicalization, from which few return. But I think you’re smart enough to prove the exception to the rule.  

[Rubus Leucodermis]

4 minutes ago, Phil said:

Ah, well there’s your problem. You take what you read at face value, even when it comes from sources that are non-objective and/or have conflicts of interest.

This is precisely how people cross the event horizon into the black hole of radicalization, from which few return. But I think you’re smart enough to prove the exception to the rule.  

I will take SciAm over some right-leaning guy on the Internet that tries to pass himself off as objective any day, TYVM.

[Phishy Wx]

3 minutes ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

And this is why no one takes you seriously on this topic. Lol

Mt St Helens is awfully witty though, no?

[Phil]

8 minutes ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

Nothing. My bad, you are clearly an impartial arbiter of truth, without bias.

Ha, if that were true I wouldn’t be human.

I’m as biased as anyone. It’s a fundamental human quality. That’s why we have the scientific method…it effectively dissociates the scientific process from our humanity.

Which is why science doesn’t mix well with religion and politics. They are diametrically opposed in almost every way fathomable.

[Phil]

11 minutes ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

I will take SciAm over some right-leaning guy on the Internet that tries to pass himself off as objective any day, TYVM.

Lmao. Case in point. You’ve been radicalized.

The fact you called me right-leaning is hilarious, though. Anyone who knows me will burst out laughing at that.

[Rubus Leucodermis]

7 minutes ago, Phil said:

Lmao. Case in point. You’ve been radicalized.

The fact you called me right-leaning is hilarious, though. Anyone who knows me will burst out laughing at that.

Because voting for Trump to take a stand against wokeness and continually harping on the factual inaccuracy of the left while remaining silent about that of the right are signs of being an absolute flaming liberal. Silly me.

[Port Angeles Foothiller]

Voting for trump is insanity. Voting for Biden is insanity. Having those be the only choice AGAIN… is f*cking mind numbing. 

[TT-SEA]

Loving the trend on the 18Z ECMWF for my area...

 

[Rubus Leucodermis]

And I have now said enough (heck, maybe more than enough) and will only be posting on weather topics in this forum from this point forward (at least that is my intent).

[Rubus Leucodermis]

1 minute ago, TT-SEA said:

Loving the trend on the 18Z ECMWF for my area...

 

Look, @MossMan, you are in the blue now, too!

[TigerWoodsLibido]

The ultra wealthy have y'all right where they want you...