Pacific Northwest Weather - May 2023

[lowlandsnow]

14 minutes ago, TT-SEA said:

Does that show that there was not really any glacier growth in the 1800s?    

I am no expert, but I think it is very difficult to document how much/if glaciers grew in the 1800s because new moraines are established as glaciers grow which erases old ones. Moraines are very helpful in determining the past extent of a glacier.

[Front Ranger]

2 hours ago, Deweydog said:

I’m a little put off by the “even some Rush” comment. Like Rush would be acceptable but not preferred. And by put off I mean I’m blinded by anger.

 

[Skagit Weather]

2 hours ago, lowlandsnow said:

I am guessing White/Blue glacier responds to climate change quicker due to its low elevation and was one of the few exceptions. It had retreated 535m by 1890(Recent Variations of Blue Glacier, Olympic Mountains, Washington, U.S.A. (tandfonline.com). Nonetheless its crazy how much some glaciers have retreated. This is a link with photos showing how much larger glaciers were in the North Cascades in the early 20th century The Washington Traveler - Forest History Society.

This is an awesome link! Thank you so much for sharing it! (And the paper as well. I think you're right that the lower elevation probably contributed to a faster retreat. The glaciers in ONP are faring the worst of almost all the glaciers in WA currently.)

I really liked the 1916 photo of the Roosevelt/Coleman Glacier from Skyline Divide. I was able to compare it with a very similar (but not exactly the same) photo I took in 2021. You can't see much glacial retreat, but the thinning of the glacier is quite apparent.

[Skagit Weather]

1 hour ago, lowlandsnow said:

I am no expert, but I think it is very difficult to document how much/if glaciers grew in the 1800s because new moraines are established as glaciers grow which erases old ones. Moraines are very helpful in determining the past extent of a glacier.

Exactly. There are a number of techniques to identify the extent of the ice and date of that extent when the glacial ice begins to retreat, but if the glacier advances it erases any previous traces. From the graph I posted we think we know that some glaciers didn't advance much during the twentieth century, but even that is kind of hard to say.

[T-Town]

Beautiful morning. Down to 46 earlier, 48 now with bright sunshine. 

[TT-SEA]

GEFS is sure consistent... but likely ends up more variable in reality.  

[Cascadia_Wx]

Chilliest low in a few weeks here. Low of 44 with clear skies.

Clouds have filled back in now and it’s currently 51.

[Rubus Leucodermis]

1 hour ago, TT-SEA said:

GEFS is sure consistent... but likely ends up more variable in reality.  

Only about 10°F above average. Guess that’s the best that can be hoped for in the warm season these days.

[Port Angeles Foothiller]

38.8 was my low last night. Back to back lows in the 30's

[Rubus Leucodermis]

4 minutes ago, Port Angeles Foothiller said:

38.8 was my low last night. Back to back lows in the 30's

Yowza. Only got down to 50.9°F IMBY. Urban heat island!

[Port Angeles Foothiller]

4 minutes ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

Yowza. Only got down to 50.9°F IMBY. Urban heat island!

Not ideal for my garden. 

[Rubus Leucodermis]

8 minutes ago, Port Angeles Foothiller said:

Not ideal for my garden. 

38.8 is much preferred to 28.8 so far as a garden is concerned.

[Port Angeles Foothiller]

1 minute ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

38.8 is much preferred to 28.8 so far as a garden is concerned.

True, but tomatoes act like 38.8 is below zero. 

[MossMan]

Looks like a chilly holiday weekend! 
But don’t worry…They are still coming to a waterway near you! 

[TT-SEA]

11 minutes ago, MossMan said:

Looks like a chilly holiday weekend! 
But don’t worry…They are still coming to a waterway near you! 

Forecast looks quite a bit better down here.   

[the_convergence_zone]

50 minutes ago, Port Angeles Foothiller said:

True, but tomatoes act like 38.8 is below zero. 

Even in Seattle it's better to plant tomatoes after Memorial Day unless you deploy one or more of the various tricks to extend the season. And even then I think it's better to just wait it out until June. I stuck mine in the ground during the heat wave and they have done literally nothing so far. I should have moved them to gallon pots and put them in the cold frame until the start of June like I usually do. 

My cucumbers and squash, on the other hand, are glad to be in the ground and are taking off. 

[Cascadia_Wx]

Any tips for growing mangoes and bananas around here?

[TT-SEA]

Good news... bananas can be grown in the Puget Sound area!  

Bananas can be grown in the Puget Sound area.  They are very showy with large leaves that are brilliant green in color and illuminate with the sun shining on them. We offer several kinds, Musa Basjoo, Red Abyssinian, Chinese Lotus.

It takes about three years for them to get to their potential height.  They like partial to full sun and well draining soil.  We do not recommend these in frequent high wind areas.  The leaves on bananas are what make this a great addition to a tropical looking garden.

https://www.palmsnorthwest.com/bananas.html#:~:text=Bananas can be grown in,get to their potential height.

[Omegaraptor]

9 minutes ago, Cascadia_Wx said:

Any tips for growing mangoes and bananas around here?

The hardy banana tree can actually grow in western Oregon and Washington! Fruit is inedible, however.

[TT-SEA]

6 minutes ago, Omegaraptor said:

The hardy banana tree can actually grow in western Oregon and Washington! Fruit is inedible, however.

So sad...

Wouldn't you like to visit the tropics? Why not bring the tropics to you? With their giant leaves and palm-like structure, banana plants are a key element to adding a tropical feel to your garden.

All bananas are tropical in origin, but some are hardy enough to grow in the ground where summers are hot, and winters don't dip below zero. We refer to these as Hardy Bananas. Bananas that are more tender to cold are referred to as "tropical". Both can be grown successfully in Portland, they just require different care during the winter. Both types of bananas grow fast and produce big leaves, and if summers are long and hot enough, we may see flowers as well. Sadly none of the bananas can produce edible fruit in Portland; our hot season is just not long enough.

https://www.portlandnursery.com/shrubs/banana

 

[Cascadia_Wx]

Looks like a pretty big ridge to start June on the 12z GFS. I think I remember Phil predicting wet zonal flow and a jet extension in late June 2021 as well.

[Port Angeles Foothiller]

29 minutes ago, the_convergence_zone said:

Even in Seattle it's better to plant tomatoes after Memorial Day unless you deploy one or more of the various tricks to extend the season. And even then I think it's better to just wait it out until June. I stuck mine in the ground during the heat wave and they have done literally nothing so far. I should have moved them to gallon pots and put them in the cold frame until the start of June like I usually do. 

My cucumbers and squash, on the other hand, are glad to be in the ground and are taking off. 

I know the rules. Half of mine are in the greenhouse, the other in a temp controlled sunroom. I won't put any in the ground until lows are in the 50s for good. The ones in the greenhouse did not enjoy the last two nights. 

[Phishy Wx]

24 minutes ago, Cascadia_Wx said:

Any tips for growing mangoes and bananas around here?

I don't know, but my parents have citrus growing in their yard in SC now.  that wasn't really possible 50 years ago to any extent.  some farmers tired but it failed.  They've been growing bananas since I was a kid.  I imagine mangos would work there too

[Omegaraptor]

3 minutes ago, Phishy Wx said:

I don't know, but my parents have citrus growing in their yard in SC now.  that wasn't really possible 50 years ago to any extent.  some farmers tired but it failed.  They've been growing bananas since I was a kid.  I imagine mangos would work there too

Looks like mangoes can only grow in FL as well as CA’s warmest desert spots.

[Omegaraptor]

https://durantoregon.com/durant-olive-mill/

http://www.rr-ooo.com

Olives are also doable in western Oregon it looks like.

[MossMan]

https://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2023/05/are-large-alberta-fires-result-of.html?m=1

[the_convergence_zone]

Banana plants are readily available at many garden centers. Grown for the foliage, not the fruit. Personally the foliage doesn't a-peel to me.

I know people grow stuff like lemons here and move the plants indoors in the winter, but I think they are crazy. All that work for like 5 lemons when the same tree will produce 500 lemons in the proper climate. My philosophy is that you grow plants that are suitable for the location that they are planted. Those tropical fruit trees can produce buckets and buckets of fruit when they are in a tropical climate. If you want buckets and buckets of fruit in this climate, you can grow raspberries, strawberries, blueberries, and grapes with virtually no effort whatsoever. Not to mention the plethora of fruit trees...apples, peaches, cherries, pears, plums, etc. None of that stuff grows in Florida. 

I do like experimenting though...hardy kiwis are one that I've been trying to get to fruit, but I have them in containers where they don't seem to be all that happen. I'm thinking the spot I have them in might actually be too warm/sunny for their liking. 

 

[the_convergence_zone]

43 minutes ago, Port Angeles Foothiller said:

I know the rules. Half of mine are in the greenhouse, the other in a temp controlled sunroom. I won't put any in the ground until lows are in the 50s for good. The ones in the greenhouse did not enjoy the last two nights. 

Upset even in the greenhouse! Brutal! 

[Port Angeles Foothiller]

4 minutes ago, the_convergence_zone said:

Banana plants are readily available at many garden centers. Grown for the foliage, not the fruit. Personally the foliage doesn't a-peel to me.

I know people grow stuff like lemons here and move the plants indoors in the winter, but I think they are crazy. All that work for like 5 lemons when the same tree will produce 500 lemons in the proper climate. My philosophy is that you grow plants that are suitable for the location that they are planted. Those tropical fruit trees can produce buckets and buckets of fruit when they are in a tropical climate. If you want buckets and buckets of fruit in this climate, you can grow raspberries, strawberries, blueberries, and grapes with virtually no effort whatsoever. Not to mention the plethora of fruit trees...apples, peaches, cherries, pears, plums, etc. None of that stuff grows in Florida. 

I do like experimenting though...hardy kiwis are one that I've been trying to get to fruit, but I have them in containers where they don't seem to be all that happen. I'm thinking the spot I have them in might actually be too warm/sunny for their liking. 

 

You will do fine with hardy Kiwi's in the ground. I have two plants (male/female) and still get kiwi's even with my short season. 

I'd remove peaches from the list of "easy". It is not quite warm enough long enough. I only get a handful of peaches a year from a handful of trees. 

You remind me I need to start a grape vine. 

 

[Port Angeles Foothiller]

4 minutes ago, the_convergence_zone said:

Upset even in the greenhouse! Brutal! 

They are so D**n dramatic 

[Skagit Weather]

1 hour ago, Port Angeles Foothiller said:

I know the rules. Half of mine are in the greenhouse, the other in a temp controlled sunroom. I won't put any in the ground until lows are in the 50s for good. The ones in the greenhouse did not enjoy the last two nights. 

Do your lows ever stay in the 50s for "good?" Out here the warmest my average low gets is 53F at the beginning of August and every single day of the year except two I've had lows in the 40s. I've also never had a month where my temperature stayed above 50F the whole month and even in July/August I usually have 2-10 days with lows in the 40s.

[Rubus Leucodermis]

2 hours ago, Port Angeles Foothiller said:

True, but tomatoes act like 38.8 is below zero. 

They cope better with 38.8°F than a June killing frost (such things happen if you live at over 6,000 feet elevation in a cold air basin).

[TacomaWx]

1 minute ago, Skagit Weather said:

Do your lows ever stay in the 50s for "good?" Out here the warmest my average low gets is 53F at the beginning of August and every single day of the year except two I've had lows in the 40s. I've also never had a month where my temperature stayed above 50F the whole month and even in July/August I usually have 2-10 days with lows in the 40s.

IMBY we hardly dip below 50 from mid June through mid September. Especially in July and august it’s hard to hit the upper 40s. 

[Port Angeles Foothiller]

7 minutes ago, Skagit Weather said:

Do your lows ever stay in the 50s for "good?" Out here the warmest my average low gets is 53F at the beginning of August and every single day of the year except two I've had lows in the 40s. I've also never had a month where my temperature stayed above 50F the whole month and even in July/August I usually have 2-10 days with lows in the 40s.

You are correct, they don't. But a morning here or there in the upper 40s is no biggie once the soil temps are way up there. 

[Port Angeles Foothiller]

7 minutes ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

They cope better with 38.8°F than a June killing frost (such things happen if you live at over 6,000 feet elevation in a cold air basin).

I would not mess with a garden at 6,000'

[MossMan]

4 minutes ago, Port Angeles Foothiller said:

I would not mess with a garden at 6,000'

Phil grew tomatoes, bananas, and mangos at his old compound next to Costco at the top of Stampede Pass! 

[LowerGarfield]

Yesterday our high was about 65F. Today very light breeze and currently 66F. Mostly sunny with scattered clouds. Nice day outside and more pleasant than with the cold west winds we had yesterday.

[Rubus Leucodermis]

31 minutes ago, Port Angeles Foothiller said:

I would not mess with a garden at 6,000'

My mom did for many years when I was a teen. Let’s just say it was challenging. By the time the weather was reliably frost-free, it could easily be in the 90’s in the afternoons (with single-digit relative humidity). Mom had real fun picking a date to transplant the tomatoes. And a week seldom went by even in July or August without lows in the forties. Mom grew tomatoes inside of junk tires, which tended to retain some heat at night.

[Phishy Wx]

 

[Omegaraptor]

1 hour ago, Phishy Wx said:

 

Tim is SCREWED