December 2023 Weather in the PNW

[Phishy Wx]

2 hours ago, Front Ranger said:

Seems like his last appearance was around or shortly after 2008-09. Could be wrong.

he posts on American Wx the last time I poked around, about 6 months ago ish

[Phishy Wx]

53 minutes ago, SnowWillarrive said:

We kinda already have that. It’s called the growth management act. That’s why all the new homes have no yards. In King County HWY 18 is pretty much the boundary between rural and urban areas. Every major city in Western WA is infilling their core areas. 

Even with bad sprawl both WA and OR have done a better job compared to most states. 

Spokane passed 'middle housing' last year that basically removed single family only residential zoning in the city limits. so now they're building multiplexes and duplexes everywhere they can buy lots for infill of more 'affordable' housing.  the 'nose in the air' aristocrats aren't happy so they all are moving to the exurbs in gated communities like Tim's

[Skagit Weather]

5 minutes ago, TT-SEA said:

Some mild days coming up through Saturday...

 

SEA currently at 15 days in December with a high in the 50s. Current record is 19 days from 1976. Good chance we tie that record depending on what happens Sunday.

[Skagit Weather]

2 minutes ago, Skagit Weather said:

SEA currently at 15 days in December with a high in the 50s. Current record is 19 days from 1976. Good chance we tie that record depending on what happens Sunday.

Also will tie with a number of years for second place for the fewest freezes with one. Only 1969 had fewer with 0. Up here my one freeze will be the worst I've ever recorded for December and the second worst winter month behind only February 2016.

[TT-SEA]

4 minutes ago, Skagit Weather said:

Also will tie with a number of years for second place for the fewest freezes with one. Only 1969 had fewer with 0. Up here my one freeze will be the worst I've ever recorded for December and the second worst winter month behind only February 2016.

Looks like just 2 days below freezing this month in North Bend... and barely so at 31.    There were 9 days with lows below freezing in November.

[SilverFallsAndrew]

1 hour ago, the_convergence_zone said:

The obvious thing to do that would be the most climate friendly would be to concentrate development in urban areas near rapid transit. Unfortunately, we’ve given existing homeowners veto power almost everywhere, so even in Seattle it is illegal to put dense developments in 75% of the city and even where it is legal everything has to go through years of design review that adds unnecessary expense. 
 

I’m just glad there is so much public land around Seattle, otherwise every mountain around Issaquah would be covered in houses. 

In Oregon you can build multi family units anywhere in towns over 10,000. Like I said we are a little smarter with land use here. 

[SnarkyGoblin]

9 minutes ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

In Oregon you can build multi family units anywhere in towns over 10,000. Like I said we are a little smarter with land use here. 

At any height?  Part of the problem with Seattle is that there are floor limits in many of the neighborhoods.  

I absolutely despise townhomes.  Wish those big lots that they turned into 10 townhomes essentially touching each other would have been 10+ story condos instead.  Seattle is gonna regret the townhome generation.

[SilverFallsAndrew]

18 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

At any height?  Part of the problem with Seattle is that there are floor limits in many of the neighborhoods.  

I absolutely despise townhomes.  Wish those big lots that they turned into 10 townhomes essentially touching each other would have been 10+ story condos instead.  Seattle is gonna regret the townhome generation.

I’m not sure on that. But I know much of the building in Salem over the past few years has been multi family, mostly apartments, and mostly in filling. 

[Cascadia_Wx]

2 hours ago, Tyler Mode said:

I think the bigger issue, at least in Clark County is that when a development goes in, 9 times out of 10 every single tree is mowed down and houses are built feet apart.  There seems to be no regard for incorporating existing vegetation etc.  I live in a development and I've looked at google earth many times and have seen what use to be.

But...it's a double edged sword.  I hate logging, but realize we have to have it for housing and many other things,  I also realize that a lot of the hikes I love our accessed via logging roads.

Absolutely. I think there is a false dichotomy being depicted between being completely anti-growth or in favor of runaway development without limit. Smart growth is something many areas have embraced, but unfortunately Clark county isn’t one of them. Leaving trees and other vegetation, green spaces, habitat buffers etc goes a very long way. And also thinking about the livability of areas and access to goods and services rather than just cramming all the crap you can in wherever the dollar immediately dictates and letting the people that live there later on figure it out.

As for logging, it definitely has a place, especially in the massive tracts of reforested second and third or even fourth growth woods across western Washington. Old growth is rare enough anymore though that that’s a harder one to justify.

[SilverFallsAndrew]

10 minutes ago, Cascadia_Wx said:

Absolutely. I think there is a false dichotomy being depicted between being completely anti-growth or in favor of runaway development without limit. Smart growth is something many areas have embraced, but unfortunately Clark county isn’t one of them. Leaving trees and other vegetation, green spaces, habitat buffers etc goes a very long way. And also thinking about the livability of areas and access to goods and services rather than just cramming all the crap you can in wherever the dollar immediately dictates and letting the people that live there later on figure it out.

As for logging, it definitely has a place, especially in the massive tracts of reforested second and third or even fourth growth woods across western Washington. Old growth is rare enough anymore though that that’s a harder one to justify.

Absolutely. People deserve the opportunity to have a home of their own, but we can live within nature. Not destroy it. 

[Deweydog]

2 minutes ago, Cascadia_Wx said:

Absolutely. I think there is a false dichotomy being depicted between being completely anti-growth or in favor of runaway development without limit. Smart growth is something many areas have embraced, but unfortunately Clark county isn’t one of them. Leaving trees and other vegetation, green spaces, habitat buffers etc goes a very long way. And also thinking about the livability of areas and access to goods and services rather than just cramming all the crap you can in wherever the dollar immediately dictates and letting the people that live there later on figure it out.

As for logging, it definitely has a place, especially in the massive tracts of reforested second and third or even fourth growth woods across western Washington. Old growth is rare enough anymore though that that’s a harder one to justify.

This is all required by current code. Of course it could be argued there should be more but affordability is also a major component of that. Nothing is free. As for trees in developments, that’s even more complicated as existing trees make building pretty complicated. Sure, someone can fork out half a million or more for a few acres and have all the trees they want, but there’s only so much of a market for that. Most people have to trade land for dwelling as they have to have rooms for the kids, kitchens for food preparation, rumpus rooms to forum post, etc. For us, we definitely traded land for amenities since we were in a position where an ADU was needed given our situation. 

[The Blob]

6 hours ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

My jalapenos are not going to like those temps

43 minutes ago, SnarkyGoblin said:

At any height?  Part of the problem with Seattle is that there are floor limits in many of the neighborhoods.  

I absolutely despise townhomes.  Wish those big lots that they turned into 10 townhomes essentially touching each other would have been 10+ story condos instead.  Seattle is gonna regret the townhome generation.

In Portland it depends on the land zoning. Some have 45ft limit, other 35ft.

[Cascadia_Wx]

1 minute ago, SilverFallsAndrew said:

Absolutely. People deserve the opportunity to have a home of their own, but we can live within nature. Not destroy it. 

As it is with many aspects of our society, it’s the obsession with short-sighted profiteering as opposed to long term sustainability that messes up the potential there.

[Cascadia_Wx]

4 minutes ago, Deweydog said:

This is all required by current code. Of course it could be argued there should be more but affordability is also a major component of that. Nothing is free. As for trees in developments, that’s even more complicated as existing trees make building pretty complicated. Sure, someone can fork out half a million or more for a few acres and have all the trees they want, but there’s only so much of a market for that. Most people have to trade land for dwelling as they have to have rooms for the kids, kitchens for food preparation, rumpus rooms to forum post, etc. For us, we definitely traded land for amenities since we were in a position where an ADU was needed given our situation. 

I don’t know if your recent experience building a custom home next to a wildlife sanctuary gives a very representative or relatable view of how most development is handled. I’m sure next we’ll have someone chiming in from their gated community surrounded by a protected greenway telling us that trees don’t matter all that much too.

[Cascadia_Wx]

Personally I’ve seen whole lots of woodland mowed down, not a single tree or patch of vegetation left, and filled in densely with cheap apartments. Seems to be the most common sort of development in and around Vancouver these days. Maybe there are laws on the books requiring this or that, but there are also many loopholes that developers are quick to exploit. Such is the way of things when you’re looking to plunder some quick bucks as opposed to being concerned with building an actual community.

[SilverFallsAndrew]

17 minutes ago, Cascadia_Wx said:

As it is with many aspects of our society, it’s the obsession with short-sighted profiteering as opposed to long term sustainability that messes up the potential there.

I tried to post this earlier, but the algorithm prevented me. My wife and our children are enrolled members of the winnemum Wintu. Horrific what their people have been through, at one point people in Weed were paid a bounty for each wintu they killed. But it’s given me an even greater passion and understanding for protecting our land. And we work everyday to live more

in harmony with it. 

[Deweydog]

1 minute ago, Cascadia_Wx said:

I don’t know if your recent experience building a custom home next to a wildlife sanctuary gives a very representative or relatable view of how most development is handled. I’m sure next we’ll have someone chiming in from their gated community surrounded by a protected greenway telling us that trees don’t matter all that much too.

Just saying there is a balance to be struck and the market is usually going to be the fulcrum. Not sure of your current “situation” but life comes at you and compromise becomes the name of the game. Building/buying a home is an expensive proposition and land is a huge component of that. And the great thing about trees is you can plant as many as you want when you buy your spread, small as it may be. At the old place we planted about 40 total over the course of 13 years. Lost a few of them during the April 2022 snows.

[TT-SEA]

34 minutes ago, Cascadia_Wx said:

I don’t know if your recent experience building a custom home next to a wildlife sanctuary gives a very representative or relatable view of how most development is handled. I’m sure next we’ll have someone chiming in from their gated community surrounded by a protected greenway telling us that trees don’t matter all that much too.

Our community is the opposite of what you describe... all forested and we are required by said greenway to manage our forest.   But it could still burn since it is naturally meant to burn and nature doesn't care if we choose to live here or if people like to hike here.   Aren't you moving to Montana?   They don't have issues with development or forest fires there.   

[snow_wizard]

GFS looks like it's heading to something pretty chilly on this run.  Nice cold pool sweeping in early in week 2.

[Slushy Inch]

[Christensen87]

1 minute ago, snow_wizard said:

GFS looks like it's heading to something pretty chilly on this run.  Nice cold pool sweeping in early in week 2.

Looking great! 

[SilverFallsAndrew]

35 minutes ago, Deweydog said:

Just saying there is a balance to be struck and the market is usually going to be the fulcrum. Not sure of your current “situation” but life comes at you and compromise becomes the name of the game. Building/buying a home is an expensive proposition and land is a huge component of that. And the great thing about trees is you can plant as many as you want when you buy your spread, small as it may be. At the old place we planted about 40 total over the course of 13 years. Lost a few of them during the April 2022 snows.

We have added a lot of trees here over the past decade. 

[Slushy Inch]

Deepening. 

[Deweydog]

3 minutes ago, snow_wizard said:

GFS looks like it's heading to something pretty chilly on this run.  Nice cold pool sweeping in early in week 2.

Just hit the ALERT button, Jim!

[Ken in Wood Village]

I wish I could stay up and watch the models come in and this very interesting slug of moisture too but I have to get to bed. I'm up at 3:30am have a good night  

[snow_wizard]

12 minutes ago, TT-SEA said:

Our community is the opposite of what you describe... all forested and we are required by said greenway to manage our forest.   But it could still burn since it is naturally meant to burn and nature doesn't care if we choose to live here or if people like to hike here.   Aren't you moving to Montana?   They don't have issues with development or forest fires there.   

A bit of sarcasm here? 

[Meatyorologist]

Ouch. The 00z GFS has an even weaker SSW. Probably not gonna split the vortex at this rate.

[snow_wizard]

5 minutes ago, Christensen87 said:

Looking great! 

Pretty legit cold.  Low 850s with northerly surface winds.  Doesn't this model know it's into January when this is being shown?

[snow_wizard]

Just now, Meatyorologist said:

Ouch. The 00z GFS has an even weaker SSW. Probably not gonna split the vortex at this rate.

The AO is already minus so it doesn't need much.

[snow_wizard]

Holy crap!

[Deweydog]

JANUARY 2012

[snow_wizard]

The WV gets slammed with snow.

[Meatyorologist]

January 2012

[Meatyorologist]

Ah... @Deweydog

[Sunriver Snow Zone]

This is a ×$#@*ing amazing run so far, I am EXCITED to see the rest of the run. PRAY TO THE SNOWGODS!

[Meatyorologist]

Blocking looks good. Best run of this bleak winter.

[Deweydog]

Bulk email SENT

[snow_wizard]

3 minutes ago, Deweydog said:

JANUARY 2012

The cold looks more impressive with this....assuming the run is anywhere near right.

[snow_wizard]

2 minutes ago, Sunriver Snow Zone said:

This is a ×$#@*ing amazing run so far, I am EXCITED to see the rest of the run. PRAY TO THE SNOWGODS!

That is some really good stuff!

[TT-SEA]

9 minutes ago, snow_wizard said:

A bit of sarcasm here? 

Indeed.