January 2019 Weather in the Pacific Northwest

[ShawniganLake]

So they trimmed every tree in Maryland? Very impressive. Just a few more years before the limbs start to grow back and they’ll have to do it all over again. No power outages at least!

Unless they cut down every tree within striking distance is seems pointless. Plus most of the trees are on private land around here. They trimmed all the trees near the power lines around all of Shawnigan Lake last summer. And after the December windstorm people were still without power for a week.

[Jesse]

Sounds like the biggest outage in Vancouver, pretty much the heart of the city, was kind of a fluke when one of the breakers at a substation failed to trip for some reason.

Sounds like I cut every tree within three miles of my house down for nothing then.

[Phil]

You're out of your field here. Let it go before this conversation degenerates.

Oh just stop talking out of your a** already. This is getting ridiculous.

 

Would you like a quantitative comparison of the miles of above-ground cable and the geography along said lines? Because this information is public.

[BLI snowman]

The forests inside the Beltway are among the most extensive known to man.

[Deweydog]

Sounds like I cut every tree within three miles of my house down for nothing then.

Better than watching them die slow deaths in our fresh climate hell that will never ever never ever get better as long as I live and Nick Jonas will never take me out for frozen yogurt!!!

 

In a perfect world we will have a multi-billion dollar weakened-branch strike team that will respond to Amber Alert style alerts in anticipation of our once-every-couple-years storms which produce modestly significant power outages. Time and $$$ well spent!

[BLI snowman]

Nice to have the

[Jesse]

Better than watching them die slow deaths in our fresh climate hell that will never ever never ever get better as long as I live and Nick Jonas will never take me out for frozen yogurt!!!

 

 

Do you expect our climate to start cooling soon?

[GHweatherChris]

Got some snow mixing in currently.

[MR.SNOWMIZER]

There is a Doug fir 4 miles from my house that is 13.9 feet diameter dbh or 4.5ft from ground. It's the largest Doug fir in the world thats not on state land or in a National forest. You wont find much info on it but a man named Robert van pelt has a great book that covers all the largest tree's in the NW but he discovered this tree after he published the book. I'll take a pic of it today.

[Jesse]

There is a Doug fir 4 miles from my house that is 13.9 feet diameter dbh or 4.5ft from ground. It's the largest Doug fir in the world thats not on state land or in a National forest. You wont find much info on it but a man named Robert van pelt has a great book that covers all the largest tree's in the NW but he discovered this tree after he published the book. I'll take a pic of it today.

Apparently you have never heard of Maryland’s legendary Booze Creek fir. Has survived multiple landslides and derechos in the last several years alone. Powerlines snap in terror just at the sight of it.

[Phil]

The forests inside the Beltway are among the most extensive known to man.

This area definitely has more trees per acre, relative to the Seattle suburbs.

 

Again, I was only proposing an idea that would help your power utility better serve your area. The rabid pushback makes no sense. I’m confident that everything I’ve said today is demonstrably accurate.

[Requiem]

So, what meteorogically caused winds to be so much higher in the south Puget Sound than down here in the Valley? And a lot more convective as well.

[SilverFallsAndrew]

Got some snow mixing in currently.

 

Some really nice echoes heading your way.

[Deweydog]

So, what meteorogically caused winds to be so much higher in the south Puget Sound than down here in the Valley? And a lot more convective as well.

The Puget Sound topography helps.

 

I wouldn’t make too much of it. Winds sound like they were fairly similar along the path of this little guy.

[MossMan]

This area definitely has more trees per acre, relative to the Seattle suburbs.

 

Again, I was only proposing an idea that would help your power utility better serve your area. The rabid pushback makes no sense. I’m confident that everything I’ve said today is demonstrably accurate.

We are talking about a slightly larger area than Seattle metro...

Plus it’s cheaper to repair lines than remove all of the trees within striking distance of lines.

[Phil]

There is a Doug fir 4 miles from my house that is 13.9 feet diameter dbh or 4.5ft from ground. It's the largest Doug fir in the world thats not on state land or in a National forest. You wont find much info on it but a man named Robert van pelt has a great book that covers all the largest tree's in the NW but he discovered this tree after he published the book. I'll take a pic of it today.

That’s fascinating stuff, and I’d love to learn more. But is it next to a power line?

 

Just so we’re clear, I was never arguing that the trees here grow larger than those in the West (that would be an absurd argument to make). I was referring to the trees growing in suburban areas near utility lines, which cause the vast majority of outages.

 

In that context, the trees in reference are younger than the old giants you’re referring to, and the ones I saw growing throughout Everett/Edmonds/etc were at/under 100ft and relatively skinny.

 

By comparison, we have lots of those heavy hardwoods that tend to max out in height early (within ~100yrs) before slowing down significantly thereafter, unlike many softwoods which tend to continue growing to some extent.

 

So they’re quite large early in life, and definitely have more girth/size to them vs some of the evergreens out West at the same age. We have several 150ft tulip poplars and black cottonwoods that are only 100-150yrs old. There’s one that’s was pushing 165ft before it lost its top.

[GHweatherChris]

Some really nice echoes heading your way.

Just too warm, but precip looks to last into the evening for sure with the track of the upper low so maybe get lucky tonight.

[Requiem]

I also do want to ask why the GFS was so terrible during this one. Every model showed gusts 45-60 region-wide, except the GFS (which showed only blustery conditions).

[Requiem]

It’d be nice if they would kill two birds with one stone during this massive trimming exercise and throw all the homeless people in the chipper as well.

 

[SilverFallsAndrew]

http://models.weatherbell.com/hires/2019010618/portland/hires_snow_portland_28.png

[Phil]

We are talking about a slightly larger area than Seattle metro...

Plus it’s cheaper to repair lines than remove all of the trees within striking distance of lines.

Maybe in the short term. But the costs add up significantly over time due to both the lost revenue and the equipment replacements.

 

In the long run, if you don’t trim the trees you’re paying to clean up the fallen trees and to replace the broken equipment as opposed just paying to trim the trees.

[Phil]

Apparently you have never heard of Maryland’s legendary Booze Creek fir. Has survived multiple landslides and derechos in the last several years alone. Powerlines snap in terror just as the sight of it.

I admit I lol’ed a bit.

[Jesse]

Nice chilly rain today. Too bad PDX had a midnight high.

[Chewbacca Defense]

Where in the county are you? I seemed to recall you you were on the east side of Bellingham in the highlands around Mt. Baker Hwy and Britton Rd, or am I thinking of someone else? I would have thought that would be one of the better places in the city for snow, having just a bit more elevation.

 

Yeah I am, the big problem has been moisture. It always seem to go around us.  For the big event in the county last winter, all we got was little fringes and fingers of moisture.  I could see the snow falling to the north, but we couldn't really score.  I think we might have gotten an inch or 2 if I remember correctly....

 

There have been other events, like the one about 2 years ago that cut off Sumas and a good chunk of the north county, we either had the temp but not the moisture, or when we got the moisture it warmed up to 35-38.  I think we got 2-3 inches over the course of that storm.  I wanted to give my son experience driving in the snow so we had to go find it.  We only had to drive a few miles...the "Y" road was buried, so we drove that, then I think we went up to Hemmi and drove down that.  It was amazing to watch the snow depth increase/road conditions get worse rapidly as we drove north.  We were in a VW Jetta with winter tires, and we decided we had driven north enough when we could hear the snow hitting the underside of the car.  

 

Back at our house, there was barely enough snow in the parking lot of the community church or Northern Heights Elementary school (both barely a mile away as the crow flies and at a higher elevation) to teach him about spin/skid control.

 

Certainly, when the moisture is wide spread, we do quite well compared to the city.

[Requiem]

As someone who has both lived in the Mid Atlantic and the PacIfic Northerst as an adult, and have had coffee with PECO line workers asking why we don’t outages when some of the power poles in Philly look like they were saplings in Ben Franklin’s day, I feel like I have some weight to this.

 

Tree trimming out east takes place in dense areas, usually involves cutting back hardwoods that grow slower and much more ridged, and given the decentralization if the grid out there, can easily cope with lines going down.

 

Out here in the Northwest, we have firs that grow fast, bend significantly, blow their branches into lines and transformers, and the grid out here is daisychained in areas where the terrain doesn’t allow for poles everywhere.

 

On the flip side of this, and per Mr PECO man, the next 100 year ice event will decimate the suburban infrastructure of Washington, Baltimore, and Philly.

 

Would a 100 year ice event be like the December 1996 E. Portland ice storm but region-wide? Maybe 1-2 inches of ice in spots.

[Chewbacca Defense]

I grew up off Britton rd... our area did quite well. I was always jealous of those up on hillsdale though

Yeah the Hillsdale area always does REALLY well...We looked at a couple of houses up there when we were shopping around but they got snatched up before we could get an offer in.

[Timmy Supercell]

It has been snowing for a while today, it's accumulating on vehicles and in the yard but just not on roads. 

[Kayla]

I also do want to ask why the GFS was so terrible during this one. Every model showed gusts 45-60 region-wide, except the GFS (which showed only blustery conditions).

 

The GFS is always bad in mesoscale setups.

[Kayla]

Another perk to moving to Bozeman...the whole city's power grid is underground. We have literally never lost power here with 70+ mph winds or 15" of snow in a day.

 

Living up in the West Hills we'd lose power several times a year for multiple days with any winds over 45 mph and or any snow/ice.

[Phil]

As someone who has both lived in the Mid Atlantic and the PacIfic Northerst as an adult, and have had coffee with PECO line workers asking why we don’t outages when some of the power poles in Philly look like they were saplings in Ben Franklin’s day, I feel like I have some weight to this.

 

Tree trimming out east takes place in dense areas, usually involves cutting back hardwoods that grow slower and much more ridged, and given the decentralization if the grid out there, can easily cope with lines going down.

 

Out here in the Northwest, we have firs that grow fast, bend significantly, blow their branches into lines and transformers, and the grid out here is daisychained in areas where the terrain doesn’t allow for poles everywhere.

 

On the flip side of this, and per Mr PECO man, the next 100 year ice event will decimate the suburban infrastructure of Washington, Baltimore, and Philly.

You’re correct about the decentralized nature of the critical infrastructure here, but as for the growth habits of hardwoods, that’s not quite accurate. While some do grow slowly (such as most oaks and beech) many grow very quickly (such as sycamore and tulip poplar) and their *lateral growth* is much more prolific than that any evergreen species, which is obviously problematic.

 

The wood is often stronger, though, and the trees don’t really sway all that much once mature, so perhaps that might make a difference. Most of the stuff that falls in high winds here is of the spruce/fir/pine variety.

[Deweydog]

18z!

[Front Ranger]

Can't believe Phil was the first one to think of trimming trees near power lines. Hopefully PSE gets the memo!

[SilverFallsAndrew]

18z!

 

Its wetter than the 12z. Pretty much average precip. 

[Bryant]

18z!

Thanks for saving me the trouble of looking

[Front Ranger]

18z!

 

Snow for Phil!

[VancouverIslandSouth]

Largely a non-event from a wind perspective here but there were some brief heavy showers between 2 - 8 am last night.

[Deweydog]

Thanks for saving me the trouble of looking

Late January/early February!!!!!!

[MossMan]

Stopped in at the family lake house this morning to check on things after last nights storm...had some horrific damage. (Circled)

 

Back home I just unChristmased the Christmas tree and it has joined its friends back in the woods. Outside lights will need to wait until next weekend.

 

Cloudy and 40 currently.

[Jesse]

[Requiem]

The pressure was also impressively low from the storm, much lower than any storm this year or last.