November 2022 PNW weather Discussion. #NoRidgeNovember

[Rubus Leucodermis]

1 minute ago, Cascadia_Wx said:

The western Columbia Gorge is really an incredible climate. I’m surprised it took you this long to realize just how windy it is there in the cold season.  The Vista House on Crown Point is even more extreme than Corbett.

Hood River can be a real sweet spot during overrunning/transition events. Far enough east to get cold air, far enough west to get lots of moisture. They have racked up some insane multiday snow totals. Ditto for Boston Bar in the Fraser Canyon.

[SnowWillarrive]

5 minutes ago, Brian_in_Leavenworth said:

Here's the map in inches.  This is one of the situations where Randy and Western WA can get more snow than even I do.  Normally I get a lot more.  Hope everyone can score.

Shows 1 inch at Boeing Field. Sounds about right. 

[snow_wizard]

2 minutes ago, Cascadia_Wx said:

The western Columbia Gorge is really an incredible climate. I’m surprised it took you this long to realize just how windy it is there in the cold season.  The Vista House on Crown Point is even more extreme than Corbett.

I've always noticed Troutdale, but you have to zoom in more to see Corbett.  Troutdale is nothing compared to them.  I have to say I would love see the snow drifts Corbett could be capable of.

[snow_wizard]

The end of the GEM is kind of OMG isn't it?  That would be record breaking for sure.

[SnowWillarrive]

1 minute ago, Brian_in_Leavenworth said:

No.  He'll get good snow and be happy with it, but those higher totals are in the Mountains.  Terrain bleed on the maps make it look more than it would be.

We had about 40 inches in about 30 hours last year.  And even though we are way more prepared for snow than most places, it was a bit too much.  Driving was very difficult, let along getting out of the house. Glad I experienced it once, but once was enough.  8-12 inches of snow works fine for me.

I was just joking of course. Would not be surprised if he gets 20+ inches over the next few weeks though. He’s into Snow voodoo or something. Ski resorts might hire him. 

[Perturbed Member]

Just now, snow_wizard said:

I've always noticed Troutdale, but you have to zoom in more to see Corbett.  Troutdale is nothing compared to them.  I have to say I would love see the snow drifts Corbett could be capable of.

Mark Nelsen lives in Corbett up around 1000 ft if I recall correctly.  

Probably why he can't seem to get too excited about any weather in PDX.

[TT-SEA]

Already 52 this morning... quite breezy here.

[Brian_in_Leavenworth]

5 minutes ago, Terreboner said:

I'm disappointed.  I was kind of hoping Carl Lewis would reprise his role as the greatest national anthem singer of all time!!!  Or Roseanne, honorable mention.

Uh oh!  I'll make it up to you!

Best part is Charley Steiner laughing so hard he couldn't talk. 

Seriously, for those who haven't seen it, you need to watch it 

 

[Rubus Leucodermis]

7 minutes ago, Brian_in_Leavenworth said:

No.  He'll get good snow and be happy with it, but those higher totals are in the Mountains.  Terrain bleed on the maps make it look more than it would be.

We had about 40 inches in about 30 hours last year.  And even though we are way more prepared for snow than most places, it was a bit too much.  Driving was very difficult, let along getting out of the house. Glad I experienced it once, but once was enough.  8-12 inches of snow works fine for me.

Once you get above about the 30-inch mark, snow removal enters an entirely new dimension in any urbanized area. Suddenly the tactic of just shoving at aside into berms or piles doesn't work so well, because you start running out of room. You have to start trucking it away to dump sites. This greatly prolongs and complicates the process.

[Brian_in_Leavenworth]

2 minutes ago, SnowWillarrive said:

I was just joking of course. Would not be surprised if he gets 20+ inches over the next few weeks though. He’s into Snow voodoo or something. Ski resorts might hire him. 

He seems to be in the sweet spot for that area.  Maybe a bit of elevation and of course being away from Puget Sound.  

[Tyler Mode]

1 minute ago, Perturbed Member said:

Mark Nelsen lives in Corbett up around 1000 ft if I recall correctly.  

Probably why he can't seem to get too excited about any weather in PDX.

Yes, his new house is out of the wind now however.  He use to live very close to Vista House.

[Terreboner]

1 minute ago, Brian_in_Leavenworth said:

Uh oh!  I'll make it up to you!

Best part is Charley Steiner laughing so hard he couldn't talk. 

Seriously, for those who haven't seen it, you need to watch it 

 

I remember watching it live.  I couldn't believe what I was seeing.

[Brian_in_Leavenworth]

Just now, Rubus Leucodermis said:

Once you get above about the 30-inch mark, snow removal enters an entirely new dimension in any urbanized area. Suddenly the tactic of just shoving at aside into berms or piles doesn't work so well, because you start running out of room. You have to start trucking the it away to dump sites. This greatly prolongs and complicates the process.

Exactly.  That's what happened to us.  IIRC I think the city had to get permission from the Department of Ecology to dump snow into the river because there was no place else.  Wherever they would have dumped it had too much snow.

Since the snow they plowed would have had deicers and salt, they normally don't dump it in the river, though it gets there in the end anyway.

[snow_wizard]

GEFS is -9.3 for the mean with the second trough.  The coldest yet.

[Brian_in_Leavenworth]

2 minutes ago, Terreboner said:

I remember watching it live.  I couldn't believe what I was seeing.

That would have been awesome to see it live, not knowing it was going to happen. 

[Terreboner]

2 minutes ago, Brian_in_Leavenworth said:

That would have been awesome to see it live, not knowing it was going to happen. 

Yep, after the first few seconds I turned back towards the tv and watched the insanity ensue.  Great stuff.  It is right up there with the Joe Namath interview with Suzy Kolber.

 

 

[RentonHill]

Too good not to share. How many wx convos we having at the dinner table tonight???

[SnowWillarrive]

4 minutes ago, Brian_in_Leavenworth said:

Exactly.  That's what happened to us.  IIRC I think the city had to get permission from the Department of Ecology to dump snow into the river because there was no place else.  Wherever they would have dumped it had too much snow.

Since the snow they plowed would have had deicers and salt, they normally don't dump it in the river, though it gets there in the end anyway.

I’m curious how did the newly constructed homes in Leavenworth hold up with snow and the roofs? I was looking at some of those in 2020.

[TacomaWx]

Euro is RUNNING

[snow_wizard]

11 minutes ago, SnowWillarrive said:

I’m curious how did the newly constructed homes in Leavenworth hold up with snow and the roofs? I was looking at some of those in 2020.

I think I heard there were some problems, because the contractor they used didn't understand the concept of designing roofs in such a way that the snow slides off.   Brian might know more about that.

[Brian_in_Leavenworth]

10 minutes ago, SnowWillarrive said:

I’m curious how did the newly constructed homes in Leavenworth hold up with snow and the roofs? I was looking at some of those in 2020.

The ones that were finished?  They would have been up to code as far as the weight load, but I know a few houses on Pine Street that are new have had problems because of the way that the roof lines were designed.  Snow would slide from two different areas and meet in the middle instead of the snow sliding to the ground, and that caused some damage.  

Those houses may have been designed by people who didn't understand how much snow we get.  Others have the flat roofs that can accommodate an awful lot of snow.

I didn't hear about any serious damage though.  

And homes under construction are prepared as the builders know that the roofs must be completed by winter so they can focus on the interior.

[Cascadia_Wx]

Looks like PDX scored another freeze this morning. Nice.

[joelgombiner]

Foggy out there! (Seattle)

[Brian_in_Leavenworth]

My house was built in the 80's, and is a metal roof with shingles that make it look like a regular roof.  I installed snow guards to prevent sliding, which can cause damage and also I didn't like the huge piles of snow that would take so long to melt in the Spring. 

[SouthHillFrosty]

31 minutes ago, snow_wizard said:

People in the Central Puget Sound need to keep in mind the models always screw us in these cases and it usually ends up fine.

I disagree. Usually it doesn’t fill in.

[MossMan]

25 minutes ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

Once you get above about the 30-inch mark, snow removal enters an entirely new dimension in any urbanized area. Suddenly the tactic of just shoving at aside into berms or piles doesn't work so well, because you start running out of room. You have to start trucking it away to dump sites. This greatly prolongs and complicates the process.

2008 started to get quite interesting around the Smokey Point/7-Lakes area, roads became quite narrow, parking lots (and many roads) became frozen rutted extremely bumpy nightmares, and the mail was not delivered for over two weeks. 
I am ready at home though, if the snow gets too deep I can use my tractor to push the snow piles from the plow. I hope to get a plow attachment for the tractor in the next few years and start using that instead of my garden tractor/mower. 

[ShawniganLake]

11 minutes ago, snow_wizard said:

I think I heard there were some problems, because the contractor they used didn't understand the concept of designing roofs in such a way that the snow slides off.   Brian might know more about that.

Wouldn’t an engineer have to sign off on the design based on local snow load specifications?

[Terreboner]

Someone going to post a "Rob type" play by play of the Euro?

[Winterdog]

56 minutes ago, snow_wizard said:

It actually managed to drop to 29 here this morning for the 16th freezing min of the season.

I was surprised I had a low of 29 also, my 17th freeze for the month this morning, breaking my 30 year record of 16.  Currently 33

[ShawniganLake]

32 minutes ago, Rubus Leucodermis said:

Once you get above about the 30-inch mark, snow removal enters an entirely new dimension in any urbanized area. Suddenly the tactic of just shoving at aside into berms or piles doesn't work so well, because you start running out of room. You have to start trucking it away to dump sites. This greatly prolongs and complicates the process.

It’s pretty rural here but once the berms get too high they send the graters in to push them back or into the ditches.  I remember in December 96 they used a dozer to clear our roads.  Fukced up the asphalt a bit with the steel tracks.  Snow removal is pretty awful in my area now, much worse than it used to be.  Often takes 2-3 days before we see a plow, even when we get 18”+ snowfalls. 

[snow_wizard]

The 12z ECMWF is coming in colder than the 0z for the first trough.

[Slushy Inch]

3 minutes ago, snow_wizard said:

The 12z ECMWF is coming in colder than the 0z for the first trough.

This run is great so far.

[High Desert Mat?]

3 minutes ago, snow_wizard said:

The 12z ECMWF is coming in colder than the 0z for the first trough.

Mind posting the end of the GEM you were talking about Jim? Thanks 

[snow_wizard]

13 minutes ago, SouthHillFrosty said:

I disagree. Usually it doesn’t fill in.

How did we get snow in Feb 2019 and last December then?  I also clearly remember they showed us getting no snow a day before the blast in Nov 2010.  The models usually miss the sliding convergence zone that is inevitable with Arctic fronts.  The models often overdo the shadowing from the Olympics going into these.

[Terreboner]

Just now, 12345WeatherNerd said:

This run is great so far.

Be nice if someone posted it

[joelgombiner]

5 days out 

[Brian_in_Leavenworth]

11 minutes ago, ShawniganLake said:

Wouldn’t an engineer have to sign off on the design based on local snow load specifications?

Correct. Snow load wasn't the problem for some homes.  I posted earlier about a few Homes that had issues with where the snow slides off the roof, and how different fall lines met in an area where they met and caused damage instead of sliding to the ground.

Some of us have snow guards to keep the snow on the roof and not slide which can cause damage too.

[joelgombiner]

[TacomaWx]

1 minute ago, snow_wizard said:

How did we get snow in Feb 2019 and last December then?  I also clearly remember they showed us getting no snow a day before the blast in Nov 2010.  The models usually miss the sliding convergence zone that is inevitable with Arctic fronts.  The models often overdo the shadowing from the Olympics going into these.

I’m thinking it’s likely there would be an arctic front passing from north to south that the models aren’t seeing at this point. 

[bainbridgekid]

Euro drops 850’s to -10 for Seattle with the first trough Monday night.